Only 3 months left from the season so it's time to discuss possible rule modifications.
Personally I liked this years rules very much. The only thing I think is worth to modify - when we upkeep 25-30 pipsqueaks this year - to change the number of pipsqueaks who get real points. I guess if around half of the pipsqueaks get real points, the system if ideal. So if it stays near 28-30 I suggest 15 points for the winner and 1 point less for each place, then 0.15 for the 16th, and so on...
This would also make LTB a bit less worthwhile, but I also guess thats not a problem for most of the drivers, as it might be a bit overvalued now. Of course we can still intruoduce a 3/+2/+1 LTB, but I think the battle is hard with +2/+1 too, and more people can't join the battle for the LTB anyway.
Monthly tracks and guest designers (about 25-30% of the tracks) will stay, so as quiet days, altough less and less people choose this option, which makes me happy, and the race more intresting, but it can be still useful for some. If you disagree please tell it here.
The most important thing for the next year is, that I'd like to see a real team battle. It looked like there'll be a nice one this year - but we didnt succeed. I guess the rules (2 best deliver points to the team) are good, and I hope we'll have at least 4 active, frequent pipsqueak and strong teams next season. I await your ideas about this topic as well.
Zak
Very fine. I Agree. ;-)
dont modify the default radio button send replay to scoreboard on quiet days. i hope it will make people publish their times on quiet days. I think that i just cant really stand the idea of "quiet days" or "time hiding" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_hiding)
The original reason to have quiet days was to keep people from sending their replays 1 minute before the deadline, which could create problems because the comp. manager had to validate them first, so the update would be later, and because some emails did not arrive properly. Now with the online form the last problem is gone, but the first stays. It also shouldn't be a disadvantage for someone if they are away in the days around the deadline and have to reveal their time. Time hiding was a big problem before leading time appeared, but I think now it's not. Everybody knows it's going on, and it's also kind of interesting to try and guess how good your opponents really are, while at the same time there is a battle going on for leading time.
I know that I can't win the championship, and since I have already been second once, I'm not racing for my overalll position. I want to win some more tracks, and for this, it's better to hide my time. I'll never care about leading time bonus!
Prediction: Mingva will appear soon and he'll tell some useless critics with his ugly :P. After that Argammon arrives too, kicks LTU ass and shoots his own theories. At last, Zak will accept Mingva's idiot system... :)
Okay, the sentence with Zak was only a joke, the other two is a serious tip.
Prediction: Rotoi will make a poll. Alain will support Mingva's idea. Bonzai Joe supports the original idea (15-14-13...1), but after Zak accepted Mingva's idea, suddenly and 'surprisingly' he will find Mingva's idea very nice and he will say it fits the championship very well. After Rotoi's poll finished, it will be visible that the original idea is supported, but Zak won't care about it, because it wasn't official (it wasn't created by him).
Well, if Mingva's idea is a good one, I will support it.
Scenario #3: While the rest of the community is trying to work out the rules for the next season, CTG and Akoss spam the thread with silly comments, and then after the rules have been made, they start complaining that the rules suck.
Quote from: "BonzaiJoe"Scenario #3: While the rest of the community is trying to work out the rules for the next season, CTG and Akoss spam the thread with silly comments, and then after the rules have been made, they start complaining that the rules suck.
I like this version. :-D
It's no use to crying over the spilt milk. I like the system told by Zak. I hope Mingva won't come back and change Zak's mind. :)
Yes, don't start flamewars until there's no problem. All sentences started with 'if'. There's no Mingva, there are no silly point system suggestions, there's no fear of acceptation of it (yet).
I like the system which is suggested by Zak for 2006. I hope it won't be changed.
Yes, it looks good enough, "don't fix it if it isn't broken", they say. Still a solution is needed for people also to fight for 2nd and 3rd place during the month. But if that can't be done for 2006, that's no problem.
I like Zak's system too but I think it would be interesting to take one of the quiet days out and leave only one. That way no problem appears and LTB fight extends another day closer to the end of the month.
There's no need for quiet days anymore, we already have a hiding option (not send to scoreboard checkbox).
Quote from: "CTG"There's no need for quiet days anymore, we already have a hiding option (not send to scoreboard checkbox).
thats the same :)
if youchoose not to have quiet days there'll be no such option
But you mustn't have OFFICIAL quiet days, just facultative. :) I suggest LTB race to run in the whole month.
I was thinking that maybe there can be some kind of 'Handicap' added to a winner team for the next race or 2 next races (like a -2; -1 pts for te 2 teams with the most points) so that the results at the end of the year are closer. Or maybe we can remove the best and the worst team result at the end of the season in case a team dominates a month (like Z51 Meganium 23 pts; Cork's 15 pts) or if a team has a bad month (Like Z50 Cork's only 4 pts)
I'd like to see how you feel about these 'modifications' we Zakstunts could have to make it even better
Greetings to everyone
Well, I guess your team is full of great drivers (...), you have good teamwork (another ... CTG knows what these mean), we shouldn't give you more advantage.
I can see nothing else than the desire of further help for your team in your idea, nothing to better the point system, nothing clever idea, nothing which would help the community, nothing which would be more just and rightful for all. We should stay at the original point system. And another addition: nobody takes team competition so seriously, only your team (and old Orion).
Quote from: "Chulk"Or maybe we can remove the best and the worst team result at the end of the season in case a team dominates a month (like Z51 Meganium 23 pts; Cork's 15 pts) or if a team has a bad month (Like Z50 Cork's only 4 pts)
I generally like this idea. Comments?
Current system is good. Don't make it more difficult!
Quote from: "Akoss Poo"another ... CTG knows what these mean
Wheeeeeeeee :-D :-D :-D
Quote from: "Akoss Poo"nobody takes team competition so seriously, only your team (and old Orion).
unfortunately it's very-very true.
Quote from: "CTG"Quote from: "Akoss Poo"another ... CTG knows what these mean
Wheeeeeeee :-D :-D :-D Everybody knows what it means... :P
Quote from: "Akoss Poo"nobody takes team competition so seriously, only your team (and old Orion).
unfortunately it's very-very true.
Quote from: "Akoss Poo"
I can see nothing else than the desire of further help for your team in your idea, nothing to better the point system, nothing clever idea, nothing which would help the community, nothing which would be more just and rightful for all.
Don't be stupid and read carefully before you write. If my idea was applied to this season, Meganium will lose 37 pts and Cork's Crew only 27, and that's only removing the best and the worst result. If the 'handicap' idea is used Meganium losses 12 pts (for winning a month) and Cork's Crew losses 6 (if we count Z56 which is not over). Adding it all:
MEGANIUM: -49
CORK'S CREW: -33
That's 16 points. Where the help to Meganium.
i have a new idea: points for the regularity.
or points for regularity with slow cars / fast cars.
10 bonus points for Alain's future murder
Quote from: "zaqrack"Quote from: "Chulk"Or maybe we can remove the best and the worst team result at the end of the season in case a team dominates a month (like Z51 Meganium 23 pts; Cork's 15 pts) or if a team has a bad month (Like Z50 Cork's only 4 pts)
I generally like this idea. Comments?
I'm shitting on it from a high altitude, you always like the ideas which I don't.
Quote from: "Akoss Poo"Quote from: "zaqrack"Quote from: "Chulk"Or maybe we can remove the best and the worst team result at the end of the season in case a team dominates a month (like Z51 Meganium 23 pts; Cork's 15 pts) or if a team has a bad month (Like Z50 Cork's only 4 pts)
I generally like this idea. Comments?
I'm shitting on it from a high altitude, you always like the ideas which I don't.
Yes,because I can read your thoughts telepathically, and start to like onyl those which I see you'll hate. I hate you and am unfair towards you this much.
I am used to that you don't really support my thoughts, but at least I was sure that even you won't support this silly idea.
By the way, I said my opinion much earlier than you, so you didn't need telepathy.
By the way #2, as I said, almost nobody care about team competition, so I would prefer not to fall out on it , I'm only angry a bit about how insatiable Chulk is, how the gap between strong and not so strong teams will grow.
Idea: a paralell pontuation for the best 1st season pipsqueaks, including teams.
i.e:
Scaminosflau team have three pipsqueaks:
Jonh Doe - 1st season
Nobody - 2nd season
No One - 2nd season
Total pontuation:
Nobody was 3rd
No One 8th
Jonh Doe 13th
Newbies Pontuation: Jonh Doe 2nd
Team total:
3rd + 8th + 13th
Team (Just Newbes pontuation)
2nd
Understood?
Not really, could you be clearer please? I think it might be a good idea but I'm not sure if I understood correctly
lets adopt the idea chulk invented. i think small teams need some help against big teams. we count only the two best results in a team everymonth, and for a team consisting in two good drivers it must be possible to be the best team if they play everymonth... against, for instance, three good pipsqueaks in another team that wont play everymonth.
i dont regret waiting so long time to revive orion earlier this year. I rejected several teams offers to join them, now team competition is a great competition this year. if vago or mingva played a bit i could be in the best team. and with the best and worst result off rule, i could definetly be in the leading team.
lets adopt leo ramone idea
it would encourage the newbies to play the first year and to send a replay everymonth with a goal to achieve.
competition for a rookie musnt be just suffering all the time with no result. it must be super super interesting to play on the first year... at first i disliked the two divisions idea because it would kill the possibility for newbies to express themselves in the big league with the big pipsqueaks and i was right... no pipsqueaks that joined on this year stayed with us.
make them stay even with crap results. Make the best newbie title every year must become a stunts reference in the same level than the championship title. (of course, if a newbie wins the championship, he must leave his title to the second best newbie)
it would be super to add a best rookie - newbie of the month / of the year title.
leading time for the newbies only. if they joined during the year let them be gifted extra points to recover the gap.
I think that I would have loved to be the best newbie of the month when i joined the competition. and i would have tried several months to become the best newbie of the month.
Nobody else has any opinions??
Yes, I could like to see all the ghosts and ghost creators banned.
Quote from: "alanrotoi"Yes, I could like to see all the ghosts and ghost creators banned.
Me too. Meganium out. :twisted:
Insulting mode OFF, hurting OFF
My suggestion is similar to Usrin's: pipsqueaks can register only with the permission of Zak. I also say that every pipsqueak must enlist to the forum.
About pointsystem: I see the advantages of Chulk's idea but I'm a bit against it. Let's imagine a small team with poor results and a bigger one with lazy top dogs. The small team finds a big trick once and earns a lot of points - shall we steal that nice result from them? No. What if the final ranking changes with this rule? Better but less active team will win against the other just because they made all the races close to their average. Don't make any changes, the original idea was fair enough.
I also suggest to set up general "Stunts Law Collection". It would be a system which filters insults, charges, ghost creature. All this stupid things must be fined by penalty points (not on the scoreboard but like at police). For example: CTG says an unacceptable and rude insult to Alain. In that case an independent (not touched by the flaming), three member court can decide about giving penalty to CTG or not. After X points CTG will get a 10 seconds penalty or anything else you can imagine. After Y points or re-collecting X points would mean DQF for the next race. After Z points the court can disqualify the pipsqueak from the whole championship. We can choose limits and factors for each mistakes and of course we can set up different levels of penalties. Sounds a bit sharp but I think we need some rules to avoid useless flaming (especially Rotoi's, Alain's and my facts... :D). :!:
CTG's idea could work, but a problem appears with the judges selection. We have to choose 3 members who don't have a special relation with any of the other members (Friends - Teammate) One of them can be Zak as he is the site admin, but what about the other 2???
Krys - he's independent and he was never touched in any flamewars.
Mingva - he's officially my enemy, but I trust in his sense to the truth.
Zak - basic judge.
Diesel Joe - his connection with people is good in general so he won't be closer to any of the points of view.
JTK, KHR - out of flamewars
Lise - give law to women to flow into policy... :D
Every flamewar has neutral participants. If Akoss and Argammon are arguing then I can be neutral too. Teammate vs former classmate - none of them will have advantage. Or Alain vs CTG - all the Meganium pipsqueaks are out of that, we can call an argentin judge too. So easy :)
But there wouldn't be a full time judge. It could work if the idea is well developed. What do everybody else think about it?
It's just an occasion, not a full time thing. We can call them if something hurts very much from another pipsqueak. We must avoid permanent calls instead, I'm sure Alain will do that. :)
Fed up, fed up, fed up!
Somehow I feel CTG's activity in creating future Stunts rules and laws contra CTG's behaviour with Meganium and Orion pipsqueaks is paradox. Evident, can say anybody. But I can't imagine (shame on me) why he acts the good guy in this topic. Yeah, he changed, he wants to save the community, he won't let beavers extinct and saves the Earth from green house effect. Your duality makes me sad, bored and disgusted. With common words "you drink wine but speak water". Correction: you say rotten water. I can't believe you ever change. Throw a stone on me if it isn't right!
Closing my sudden attack I would like to talk a bit about next season plans. As for me, current pointing system is satisfactory and has no serious mistakes. The only suggestion from me is a handicap system. Let me explain this cloudy idea: depending on the overall standings of the whole championship we must give some advantage for new or less successful pipsqueaks. I couldn't really find and exact and professional solution for the problem, all things looked to be attackable and unfair (few hours earlier deadline for top pipsqueaks, new track available only from the worse pipsqueaks ZSC account in the very first days, leading time replay publication, etc.). I could find only one democratic way to decrease gaps between us: similarly to Alan Rotoi's contest (4DSL? am I right?) and Unskilledstunts Zak should open a trick section where every pipsqueak can publish their own shortcutz and hot tips. I'm afraid it won't really work because of some selfish pipsqueaks and... uhm, well. And it's the opposite of the real meaning of racing games. Think about it and tell me your opinion. I will be glad to meet your ideas too about creating a fair, sharp and dinamic championship.
Quote from: "CTG"Fed up, fed up, fed up!
Somehow I feel CTG's activity in creating future Stunts rules and laws contra CTG's behaviour with Meganium and Orion pipsqueaks is paradox.
open a trick section where every pipsqueak can publish their own shortcutz and hot tips. I'm afraid it won't really work because of some selfish pipsqueaks.
1- I find it that way too!
2- I don't think trick section would work because of what you said. Sharing tricks is the main reason to join a team after all so being on a team would lose importance if the trick section was opened
PS: CTG I like your team name and logo. McLaren is the best!!
You two are hopeless. I insult these two team, allright, it's true. I have individual problems with some pipsqueaks from there. BUT! My idea would change it, we can make our insults only by an illegal way. I won't finish my current behaviour, I'll remove it to another field (not ZSC and Forum). That's all. :D
Handicap system sounds interesting but useless and impossible. Neither the crazier ideas nor the tricks section. Why? Here are my comments:
Earlier deadline: it would kill the quite days and cause an unfair advantage for the (X+1)th, (X+2)th, etc. pipsqueaks against the Xth pipsqueak who must still finish and publish times earlier.
Weaker pipsqueaks can get the track first: imagine me, I would register as a weak newbie to get it. Yes I'm unfair.
Leading time publication: worst thing that can happen - it would be the darkest era of time hiding.
Tricks section: pipsqueaks and teams are selfish but they have the law to keep their secrets. I don't think any super tricks would be published by Meganium, Cork, Orion or Looping. Argammon's Z34 was only a partizan attack.
And by the way: why we need handicap? You learn a lot from McShit Mercedes - they gave their unique power and technology under one of the worst F1 pipsqueaks (KR). Nobody deserves advantage.
I support the idea 15-14-13-12.... Since I race here, there were always more than 20 pipsqueaks per month, even over 30! And why should the others get just point fragments like 0.0000045:) It looks funny, expecially when some of the top drivers just once gets for example 0.14points. Then he has to carry this funny number to the end of the season, like 56,14points. This point fragments also bring not very nice visualisation on the site.
I like for example the point system similar to the ski world cup
100-80-60-50-45-40........10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1. Then, everybody would get points (or 100-90-80-70-60-55.....10-9-8-7-...), but the top drivers would still have much much more points the the rest.
It would also be good that the winner gets not only 1point more then the second one because if somebody's not driving just once in a season, he can 11 times be better then the second one, but still no champion, if the second driver won that one month (12points)
Maybe 50-40-35-30-25-20-18-16-14-12-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 (20 places)
or 25-22-20-18-16-15-14-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 (20 places)
this is just an idea, I'm not sure if it's good or not, just think of a possibility by having such point system. I'm quite sure it would be more dynamic battle for the championship:)
And about the teams: All teams should have 2 or 3 or 4 or whatever pipsqueaks, It's just nonsense that one team has 5 drivers, another one just 2. Then, it's not about competition, it's just about getting tips from the team for yourself.
read: yourself isn't = the TEAM
And the team shouldn't be just "trick selling industy"for its drivers.
The team championship battle should also be important, every team should have equal chances to win the competition, what i mean by that is maybe the best is to have teams with 3 or 4 pipsqueaks. We would have then 8 or more teams with 3 pipsqueaks.
And then, everybody would be very motivated and would race for HIS TEAM, till his fingers would start bleeding, but even then, he would die for it's team, his racing family...;-)
HEY!!! this trick publication section would be a great idea!! i could copy your replay and you could copy mine... i still could hide my killing trick and publish it in the last day. the gap could be lesser between ME and YOU in the end...
IF there is a short cut publication i would imagine it being described by somebody in english, available on the main page... this could be the greatest achievement in stunts races history!!!
night drivers would still be on the podium, and newbies could be on the podium oftener.
about the "law" "judge" "appeal court" "death penalty" "lifetime jail sentence" idea... yuk! i dont reborn into the internet in 2001 to see those horrors back in this heaven on earth freedom place.
internet permits insults, permits www.ogrish.com, permits www.voyeurweb.com, permits infinite tournaments against each other, permits ego flourishment, permits everything.
it even permits unlimited CENSORSHIP. btw i dont trust wikipedia anymore... its a censor machine.
give up judge dredd. I AM THE LAW.
I'm sorry, I didn't notice that only 2 best results count for a team. Everything ok!
So, is there any result in the parliament Zak? Will we have 15-14-13-12-11-10.....3-2-1-0.18-0.17-0.16.... point system next year?
Cya;)
most likely. But it also depends on the pipsqueak number in november/december
New suggestion: smaller teams! Yes, smaller. It would make the team championship a lot harder. For example 4 pipsqueak/team. Or 3. Or 2. :D
Sweet dreams. Don't kill the unit of the current ones. Idea cancelled.
Quote from: "CTG"New suggestion: smaller teams! Yes, smaller. It would make the team championship a lot harder. For example 4 pipsqueak/team. Or 3. Or 2. :D
Sweet dreams. Don't kill the unit of the current ones. Idea cancelled.
ISA-IRc competition had a limit of 2 pipsqueaks per team.
Alain, Mingva, Leo Ramone and me were Orion members at this date, and we created sub-Orion team (Pegasus in 2002 for me and Alain's young brother and Stunts Temple Pilots for Leo and me in 2003) in order to race, but replays remained exchanged between us all.
Limiting team members will probably mean extra-team alliances between people that are for the moment in the same team and that will be in 2 different teams in 2006...
Quote from: "Krys TOFF"Limiting team members will probably mean extra-team alliances between people that are for the moment in the same team and that will be in 2 different teams in 2006...
I think you're right Krys. That's what will happen.
Any news about next season rules??? HAve you made any decision yet Zak?
they are on the site already, but of course they are not final, modifications might apply.
not much chnaged except for points. :)
OK, I didn't know that, thanks!
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on October 05, 2005, 03:49:52 PM
Still a solution is needed for people also to fight for 2nd and 3rd place during the month.
Maybe the first hint ever for PTB.