Poll
2/ Saddam killed numerous people, he deserves to die. Saddam should have been judged after the 1st war in Iraq, this second war was just a stupid desire of G.W. Bush to follow the steps of his father. G.W. Bush you're a stupid asshole, you are the only weapon of mass destruction really dangerous.
3/ Military governments in Africa ? Well, there's no oil there, so USA's slave called United Nations won't react and let the people die and suffer... A shame.
4/ Segolene Royal is the puppet of Lionel Jospin and Fran?ois Hollande. She's no "powerful female leader". Mich?le Alliot-Marie could be the French Angela Merkel, she has "guts". I don't like women with "guts" anyway, I don't want to see a French Margaret Tatcher. Nicolas Sarkozy is the French G.W. Bush, if he is elected I fear for France and Europe. For me Fran?ois Bayrou is the best choice for future president but he probably won't be elected (I hope I'm wrong)... ::)
eh, some people do...
I want to see numerous girls racing Stunts. ;D
Sorry, I just can't help it... :-[
Girls should always consider taking care of me as their task. :D
You mean: "run like a snail"! ;D
Got it : Metallica - Attitude !!! 8)
Suppose I say, I'm never satisfied
Suppose I say, he cuts the roots
To make the tree survive
Just let me kill you for a while
Just let me kill you for a smile
Just let me kill you once
I'm oh so bored to death
Oh, I hunger
I hunger
I eat
Born into attitude
Asleep at the wheel
Throw all your bullets in the fire
And run like hell
Why cure the fever ? what ever happened to sweat ?
Suppose I say, the vultures smile at me
Suppose I say, I sent them down and they plan to pick you clean
And satisfaction this way comes
And satisfaction this way comes
And satisfactions here and gone
Gone, yeah, gone again
Oh, I hunger
Oh, I hunger
I eat
Born into attitude
Asleep at the wheel
Throw all your bullets in the fire
And stand there
Born into attitude
Twist mother tongue
Throw all your bullets in the fire
And run like hell
Why cure the fever ? What ever happened to sweat ?
Just let me kill you for a while
Just let me kill you for a smile
Just let me kill you once for me
I'm bored to death
And satisfaction this way comes
And satisfaction this way comes
And satisfactions here and gone
Gone, gone again
Yeah, I hunger
Oh, I hunger
I eat
Born into attitude
Asleep at the wheel
Throw all your bullets in the fire
And stand there
Born into attitude
Twist mother tongue
Throwing all your bullets in the fire
And run like hell
Why cure the fever ? What ever happened to sweat ?
This video show why indy-like car will NEVER be used for a Stunts competition IRL : http://videos.sports.fr/video/iLyROoaftZBb.html
Royal : 25%
Bayrou : 19%
Le Pen : 11%
Others are below 5%
So it's Sarkozy vs Royal for next vote in 2 weeks. I feel sad. I probably won't vote in 2 weeks... Or maybe I'll make a null vote.
German people were clever enough to force their politicians from left and right sides to work together. Bayrou wanted to do the same in France, and French were too stupid to understand that it was the best solution according to the current situation !
The only good part is the significant decreasing of Le Pen, and the huge participation rate (around 85% of French people over 18 years old voted today).
Sarkozy likes too much the "American way of life" to be good. He is motivated by his own good and don't care of French people.
Royal is just stupid. And as long as socialists don't fire motherf*cking Fabius, I won't vote socialist.
Bayrou was the only good choice IMO. Now I know, even if Bayrou is not there in next turn, I'll vote Bayrou again. ;D
After that, in June, will will have to vote again for "legislatives" elections. This will impact the future governement, whatever the future president. I hope to see Bayrou's people lead this election to see Bayrou prime minister. ::)
Come on, CTG, don't be chauvinistic. :-\
Let's hope next "legislatives" elections will make Bayrou team have the majority.
(Nevertheless I did not vote for her, I don't like her inner politics at all!)
You may not know it but there was an argument between French and English people due to a French song from Renaud named "Miss Maggie". This song was an "ode" to all women (compared to men). All, but Margaret Tatcher who never was considered as a real woman in France. :D
English people didn't like it, dunno why. :D :D :D :D :D :D
But so in England, too. Do you know the old English series "Spitting Image"? Ther Thatcher often met Reagan in the bathroom, both shaving their faces while speaking... :D
Schwarzengger? I thought he was just a character in Simpsons? ;)
You made my day,Lise!
Yes? I know? ...right as in right/wrong!
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Oh, I hadn't thought of that at all ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Your task: work three times as hard in order to support the woman and your 21 kids (protection not invented)
(hmm, sorry about the 1 year answer delay...)
Just like King Shahriar in The Arabian Nights you will begin to run out of virgins one day ;)
They are some very lovely stories <3
Actors playing Hillary and Barrack are Heidi Klum and her husband, Seal.
you have a good point there. And it's quite interesting to check the statistics grouped by countries! http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.aspx?menu=Home&action=Distribution&choice=United%20States
Liberalism leads in USA, no surprise either.
Socialism leads confortably in EU, that was a bit surprising.
Argentina is not on the list...
Now, speaking seriously, I'm glad to see he won, it means society as a whole is changing its way of thinking and is a bit more open than some years ago. About his period as president, I think he'll try to do things the right way, but many, many, many, many republican are too conservative to help him... 4 years is my prediction.
BTW:
But I never did... And now I've forgotten why it's a crap test :) But I'm sure it was.
and that's why another 30% of the country also did not vote :) And I can totally understand them.
Even though the menu is always awful, I always go and vote because I feel it is required from me as a citizen. However, so far I have never voted twice on the same party. Maybe now.
Well, the main reason to escape from Hungary is to avoid feeling the same circumstances like it was in Argentina about 10 yrs ago (we are close to that right now). So if one leaves the country, I think Argentina would be among the last places to go to.
The way things are going, the number of reasonable alternative countries to move to seems to decrease by the day...
Krys probably supported Bayrou, then, as I probably would have as well. He got maybe 8-10% of the vote. Looking at his comments about Sarkozy, I'm sure Krys is happy that Hollande got elected instead of him. Me too.
Do you mean that she will be away for two weeks? ;)
Perhaps we can all migrate to some lowly populated country and vote ourselves into office before anyone realises what happened? I hear Iceland is nice this time of the year...
LOL LOL LOL :)
:D
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/Duplode/stflag1b.png)
That's the Stunts Community flag?
For some reason I'dd expect something with a very triangular three on it. ;)
I don't think they're really interested in the Hungarian elections. So far there are 250.000 applications for the Hungarian citizenship, further 250.000 is expected until 2014, and I will be surprised if more than 25% of them go voting. OK, those will be all brainwashed Fidesz fans, but don't worry: this is not an abundant species abroad. See the recent election results in Romania: from the 3 Hungarian parties, 2 were Fidesz clones, with Fidesz leaders heavily campaigning for them, and the third one got 80% of the Hungarian votes. It is similar in Slovakia: of the 2 Hungarian parties, the Fidesz clone is much weaker. (Btw, it is not allowed to have a dual Slovak-Hungarian citizenship in the mighty Slovakia, so there's no danger to our elections from that side.)
The bigger problem is that the Hungarian left-wing is inactive and divided... I guess that we will have even more ridiculous liberal movements (prototype: LMP) for 2014, each of them catching a few percent of anti-Orbán votes. So he'll just laugh and make a huge victory with no more than one million votes...
Now we seem to have the movement called "Together 2014" with the exact aim to unify everyone tired of Orbán. Knowing how hard it is to unify Hungarians, I am not sure they will succeed, but I am sending my best of luck.
"Together 2014" is just another meaningless big word from another liar. Neither Bajnai, nor Gyurcsány is worth for a vote - even if they are (slightly) better than Orbán.
Looks like Zak is right ;D
Okay I don't know much about the people in this opposition group. Is Jobbik part of it, by the way? But anyway, it's a general problem that right wing politicians, because they don't care about anything except power and money, are willing to do whatever, support whomever, vote for whatever in order to attain and retain power. They don't give a shit about who is worth a vote. A vote for more power to themselves is a good vote. That's why they are strong and you are weak.
Jobbik is namely in opposition, but it's an extreme right wing party, even the leaders "admit" their antisemite and racist views (they don't say: "I"m racist", but every second sentence from them is against gipsies, jews, foreigners). That means no alliance for "Together 2014".
Public polls say Jobbik is quite highly supported (15-20%), especially among the young people. Fidesz is somewhere around 30-35%, MSZP ~20-25%.
Since I hate my own country, it doesn't really hurt me.
:o
Muhaha.
Seriously? Aren't they supposed to be leftists?
Supposed to, indeed ("Social Democracia", heh) - but as PT moved from left to centre-left over the last ten years they mirrored it by shifting rightwards.
New law from Fidesz: associations can't participate in the next elections, only parties. Quite a fast reaction on "Together 2014", comprising several smaller civil groups. If you have >66.7% in the parliament, you can change everything without any resistence. And they have...
When Gyurcsány (former prime minister) founded a new party, called Democratic Coalition with 10 active MPs (leaving MSZP), Fidesz suddenly raised the minimal limit of founding a single independent parliamentary group (from 10 to 12). Democracy, huh?
Guess how seriously they take it...
Travel: 18
Alcohol: 18 (16 with some restrictions)
Married: 18
Jail: 15
Driving: 18
Job: 18 (13/16 with special rules)
Contract: 18
Vote: 18
Bonus:
Sex: 15
So what happens, if a 14 years old guy skids a classmate chick?
Answer of the day! ;D
Travel: 18
Alcohol: 18
Married: 18 (16 with parental consent)
Jail: 18 (not counting the correctional system for minors)
Job: 16 (14 under special rules)
Contract: 18 (16 with parental subscription)
Vote: 16
- Free travel: 18
- Beer, wine: 16. Harder stuff: 18
- Marriage: 16
- Jail: 14
- Drivving license: 17 (with parents on the co-driver's seat), 18 (without co-driver)
- Work: 15
- Legal contract: 18
- Vote: 16 (local, communal, federal level), 18 (State and European level)
We do not see it as a problem here; in fact, I can't recall ever having read anyone seriously criticizing the limit. Maybe it has to do with the historical context, as lowering the limit to 16 y.o. was one of the "optimistic" measures incorporated in the 1988 constitution which sealed the re-democratization process in Brazil. In any case, there is one extra caveat: voting here is obligatory, but only for people between 18 and 65 years old (so it is optional for the high schoolers).
It is a little weird, for sure; but maybe not so much if you compare the gains and, specially, risks involved (when driving the country you share the driver's seat with millions of others; while a young lad who drives holds in his hands the responsibility of, e. g., not crashing into a bus stop packed with commuters).
- Elder people numbers are growing more and more so there's an overweight of the elder interests
- If you talk about politics with 16 years old you might have the experience, that they really think of what they can do with their voice and that they are concious of the meaning of a voice
- Why not representing the younger's world in politics? In Germany there are even thoughts of giving parents an extra vote for each child so that the children's interests may be represented.
- The earlier you may vote the earlier you might start understanding politics and might also start being involved.
And as long as it is on the lower regional level it is really o.k. by me.
It's more complicated here.
Everything is allowed over 14.
If the older one is over 18:
- younger under 12: coitus is "sexual abduction", other perversion is "indecent behaviour", both are punished
- younger between 12 and 14: all forms of sex mean "pervert seduction", punished
If the older one is between 14 and 18:
- younger under 12: the same as in the case over 18
- younger between 12 and 14: coitus is "pervert seduction" (punished), other sexual acts are unpunished
If both of them are under 12, nothing happens.
Btw the "age of sexual consent" used to be different for hetero and homo relations before 2002 (14 and 18; now both are 14).
I would rather support that taxpayer's votes count double or that parents can vote in the name of their children.
Obligatory vote between 18-65 as quoted by Duplode is also interesting to counter-measure the overweight of pensioners (e.g. in Hungary all parties are basically pensioner parties, as they form the largest voter's block so nobody wants to upset them)
That can't be realized. If there is no minimum tax for the right of the double vote, suddenly all pensioners will earn 1000 HUF/year, and pay 200 HUF tax. But applying a lower limit would be unfair aganist some poor, but working people. And I hope that you count public servants as taxpayers, even if their tax is only taken from one pocket of the state to the other. (Talking about teachers, doctors, etc. as parasites of the society is common demagogy in Hungary...)
Agreed. Individual citizen rights and state policy-making go far beyond economical concerns. Also, the legislative assemblies decide on many matters other than how to spend taxpayer money.
Perhaps they seemed to be cool for some Western journalists... LMP was nothing but a strange mixture of obscure ideologies. Some of them wanted to be the Hungarian branch of Greenpeace (stop killing the whales, no nuclear energy, that's all we think about the world). Some were pure followers of Chavez, celebrating when he was re-elected. Some tried to renew the extreme liberalism of the old SZDSZ (the state shouldn't regulate anything and shouldn't spend on stupid things like healthcare, education or science). Not surprising that they couldn't stay in the same party... Moreover, they were completely unable to find a voice which people could understand. They were popular only amongst the children of wealthy families in elite quarters of Budapest (ca. 2% of the population). In 2010, an additional 5% voted on them because they were fed up with politicians, and wanted nothing but a new and 'innocent' party. But they are not new anymore, and everybody can see that they never had the competence for governing.
One part of the population, namely the majority of Gypsies. Sadly, what this guy (otherwise a stupid and aggressive Orbán fan, trying to overcompensate his activity as a Communist in the 80s and a liberal in the 90s) wrote in his article was true. It is true that law means nothing for many Gipsy families (1 family can easily mean 100-200 people!). They terrorise their neighborhood, and don't hesitate to kill anybody not doing exactly what they want. The case after which this article was written: a guy was killed in a pub, because he was in the loo when one of these 'local strong guys' wanted to pee. And it is only one of these cases. You can tell that it's racism to connect crime to an ethnic group. But how is it possible that reading about such a crime, we can be 99% sure that it was committed by a Gypsy? (Press never writes about the ethnicity of criminals, but it turns out later when their family members are interviewed in TV, or their name becomes public after the trial).
I DON'T believe that crime is in the genes of any ethnic group. The problem with the Gypsies is that their culture didn't change too much in the last 500 years, so it's fully incompatible with today's society. Learning and having a good job is not a value for them, and the few jobs which they had in their history (spoon maker, horse trader, Gypsy musician) are not needed in the 21th century. So crime is their only choice. The only way to help them would be founding good schools for their children (and force them to go there) and giving jobs to the adults immediately (even if it's not 'economical', and even if they don't want to work).
Wrong answer to the above problem, which mainstream politicians rather try to deny.
The new constitution is bullshit. It's nothing but a tool for giving full powers to Fidesz against the opposition and giving full rights for their oligarchs to keep their hands on Hungary. But I would be really surprised if it contained any differentiation against "non-ethnic Hungarians". When it's not only a newspaper article from a noname member of the party, Fidesz is really aware (sometimes too much aware) of political correctness. (Anti-semitism in Fidesz can be ruled out, they have Jewish members, some in quite high positions.)
half-OFF:
By the way, don't forget the French constitution (and the Romanian, for which it was an example). They simply deny the existence of national minorities. Why there are no TV debates about those countries?
The real problem is that Fidesz leads the country on a really wrong way. Neither people or companies can make their plans, as rules are always changed to favour the oligarchs. Therefore economy is in ruins. The leaders are stupid, unable to organize the most simple things, oligarchs are stealing everything. Public services are also in ruins. And where these problems appear, extremism starts to rise. Anywhere in the world.
It will be fun to see the opinion of a liberal person who never met a retarded but evil gipsy criminal (90% of them)...
Btw the problem is that gipsy moral (so called "raj" behaviour, that can be explained as "I'm the cooler and stronger guy, admire me, do what I say or I'll execute you and your family") is infecting the dumber half of Hungarian youth. Like my former neighbour. I hope he'll die in a car accident together with his pregnant whore.
Yes, I still can't let this daemon go... ::)
So what? (Does it have a real effect on world politics?)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/576474_494749673893744_874977175_n.jpg)
It's rather business, not politics.
(http://tomheller.de/theholycymbal/pics/oil.jpg)
Otherwise we can open a topic about the first ever nigger pope. ;)
You said the N word. You are "niggeres"!!! ;D
Why?
Lewis Hamilton, Barack Obama... ;D
Btw I don't really care about this election bullshit. Catholic religion is weaker than ever...
Actually he looks like AbuRaf. :D
It became a circus with no significance for real politics - like the life of the British royal family.
Well, I thought CTG would prefer even a N against an Arg. :)
It makes no difference, as they are suppose to represent all Catholics alike, whichever the country they were born in
Really? Tell me more.
By the way, as an atheist, I'll be happy when every organized faith-based religion is gone.
The main issue here is that respecting other people's beliefs does not imply respecting their political moves.
It is the same thing this side of the border... but I am not sure if the analogy works. While opposition to a government can only stand if it comes with a positive alternative, that doesn't hold when it comes to religion.
I also don't know. Whoever I know, all people are against Fidesz...
See my earlier post:
Even if they don't like Fidesz, they can't find any alternative. Maybe because there isn't. Opposition leaders still don't show real plans about how would they govern, they are rather fighting with each other. One more thing: people are strongly manipulated by the media. Not with direct Fidesz propaganda (it is also strong, but only the most stupid ones believe it), but with a lot of artificially created breaks in the society. Workers hate students, city dwellers hate villagers, motorists hate cyclists, etc., believing that their problems are caused by the other group. While people care about such stupid things instead of politics, Fidesz leaders happily destroy their rights and steals their future wealth.
Not as OI as I am! ;D
Btw your results don't really show big differences (between ~37 and ~67). But the most surprising fact: Zak is closer to Jobbik than to Fidesz! ;D
You should read the questions before you say anything about our results... (I won't vote for Jobbik.)
I guess you speak German, so here you are: http://www.vokskabin.hu/de/Questionnaire/Index (if you have any questions about the background of each points, just tell)
Btw even the most optimistic pollsters predict a huge Fidesz victory: the latest polls showed 49% for the governing party, only 30% for the left-wing alliance (MSZP-Együtt 2014-DK-MLP) and 18% for Jobbik (they are getting stronger and stronger again).
It is an issue that occurs in many countries of Europe. France and Austria has the most relevant popular support of this ideology. Isn't it?
That's why I think that the whole thing will be cheated to the highest extent. 90 percent of the people I know (including me) hates FIDESZ and would vote for the 'everything but FIDESZ' option, no matter if he/she is liberal, communist, fascist, egoist, shittist, fartist or anythingist...
Nothing, yes (if they really want to join back), no (unless they want to stay in Ukraine), I don't care, yes (useless power demonstration), no (what did EU and USA do so far? almost nothing).
Probably you will find my opinion extremely stupid and narrow-focused, but as long as the real conflict stays within the borders of Ukraine, I don't really care.
1, Lost credibility between 1998 and 2002.
2, Became a media whore in the early 00s.
3, He's old (81) and maybe senile, too.
Fidesz 40%, left-wing 29%, Jobbik 21%, LMP 6%, rest 4%.
As for me:
44% - Fidesz
25% - left-wing alliance
21% - Jobbik
5.1% - LMP (just like their ancestor, the "good" old SZDSZ... btw I hope to see 4.99% for them)
4.9% - the rest
Well... my choice won't win... not even in my district.
It seems my tips were way too good... Fidesz will have the crucial 2/3 of the seats (with ~45% of the votes, what a stupid system...), while the neo-SZDSZ is also in with ~5.2%. The detailed results... well... it's better not to analyse. The whole procedure reminds me on a Z category reality show, where the winner - after a tight battle - has exactly as much votes as it's necessary (the only difference is that the goal was the 2/3 of the mandates, not a simple victory).
Counting 98.97% of the votes:
44.54% - Fidesz-KDNP (133 seats from 199, 66.8%, no comment...)
25.99% - left-wing alliance (38 seats, 19.1%)
20.54% - Jobbik (23 seats, 11.6%)
5.26% - LMP (5 seats, 2.5%, status quo, "a kecske is jóllakott, a káposzta is megmaradt")
all the other parties under 1%
In my district, the left-wing applicant won (the local Fidesz applicant is way too corrupt, even his own party is fed up with him).
I'm almost sure that the whole elections were cheated, but since there's no credible major political power on the map, so it's irrelevant. As for me, the only party which seems to be more or less trustful is Jobbik, probably just because they had not governed the country yet - I'm afraid they would be as shitty as the other two... However, I would give them the chance for 4 years to prove the opposite.
So it doesn't matter exactly what political ideas they will implement with all their purity and credibility?
I have no problem with their ideas. The party itself is not as radical as it seems to be - whatever the Western media says, they are not nazis, only the loud minority of their supporters.
Our country is in a deep moral (and economical) crisis. A strict government - let's say Jobbik, but with a strong and constructive left-wing opposition - could help a lot in this situation. Unfortunately most of the voters are still brainless sheeps, forgetting about the poor performance of Fidesz between 2010 and 2013 (thinking only on the "generous" last year, which was the part of the campaign). We will have two more elections in this year (European Parliament, local authorities), so the next economical restrictions are coming only in 2015...
Answer: tomorrow, I don't have enough time now to summarize. However, I'm afraid my English vocabulary is simply too poor to explain you the local "specialities", missing from Zak's explanations.
Btw I don't want to hurt Mr. McKracken, but he doesn't really see what happens in the Hungarian reality: in the poor districts of Budapest / coutryside, or simply in the home of less educated people (=the majority of Hungarians). Being a (well-paid) white collar man in the capital... well... it's a lucky and way too sterile case. For example you need to see the gypsy problem with your own eyes - not only from the news. Unfortunately they are the part of my everydays, since I'm working in one of the most dangerous districts of Budapest (and I use public transport).
Sorry, you're wrong. Jobbik is a nationalist party, but they never wanted to create different rights based on ethnicity. They tend to see Gypsies and Jewish as reasons of problems in Hungary, however the solutions they offer are different than you think. What do their "anti-gypsy" plans mean? More policemen in rural areas, stricter penalties for minor crimes, benefits for non-working people in kind (instead of giving money which they often spend on alcohol, etc.), forcing parents to send kids to school, forcing people to keep their environment tidy, etc. These rules would apply to everybody, not regarding ethnicity! The Western media likes to exaggerate the "nazi danger" in Hungary... That's mainly because our politicians' habit of telling lies about their opponents to foreign journalists, not caring if they destroy the reputation of the whole country. (Fidesz in opposition did the same with the left-wing.)
I've quite strong left-wing (socialist, not liberal) political views, so I would never vote for Jobbik. But I can understand people who do. Currently Jobbik is the only party who stand for any kind of ideas, and have plans about how to govern the country. Fidesz and the left-wing politicians are not more than the spokesmen of oligarch groups. Believe it or not, the two major parties had no published political programs before the elections... They want to rule simply because they want to give all business opportunities and all possible money to their wealthy friends in the background. I think that's the moral crisis what CTG talks about.
I've already written about the "Gypsy problem" in this forum. That's an existing problem in Hungary, and Jobbik is the only party not denying it. Maybe Zak feels safe in the "bad" districts and villages as a traveler, but it is very-very different for people living there. They can be attacked anytime (even in their homes), they cannot grow anything in their gardens (because Gypsy gangs pick everything), their children are terrorised in school, etc. And yes, their are specific types of crime which are related to Gypsies due to their very different cultural traditions. They were nomad people: in their world there was no private property, they took whatever they needed, and they reacted to any offence with calling the family members for a massive attack. In Europe, in the 21th century this is called crime, and cannot be tolerated.
There's nothing more to add about political situation, I agree with every words.
However, I thought on "moral crisis" from a different aspect, also described by Usrin in the past: the moral of Hungarian citizens (summary: we are our own enemies).
You've already seen the Eastern block: the difference is too huge to forget about divisions.
Funny, but even if Fidesz is the member of EPP, Orbán doesn't support Juncker.
Participation rate of the national elections: 61.2% (decreasing). However, people weren't really interested in the last two EP elections either: 38.5% in 2004 (right after we joined EU), 36.3% in 2009.
Low participation rate was quite predictable, because:
- people are getting more and more disappointed in the well-known political forces
- our EP representation was rather a well-paid holiday for 21 "politicians"
- right wing voters are (partly) against EU membership
However, Slovakia showed up even worse participation rate: 13%! :o
Since PM separated from LMP (1-2 years ago) and started to strengthen connections with "left-wing" parties (heavily fighting for postions despite low popular support), it is clear that they are the neo-SZDSZ. Whereas the remaining LMP became Fidesz puppets. They are trying to balance between right- and left-wings, and the green dreams (saving the whales, shutting down the nuclear power plants) are more important for them than real political questions. But they can steal some opposition votes, strengthening the position of Fidesz... That's why they are always helped to reach 5%.
Of course I didn't vote as it was possible only in Oslo. Otherwise I would have probably voted for DK.
nothing about slovakia?
Do you mean monarchies as countries "governed" by kings? I think it's just a meaningless title in this democratic (?) world, without real power. All the decisions are born in the parliaments.
I understand it this way: "states don't have to pay back the money they borrowed, if they don't want".
Do you really think that UN would ever make a votation about something that stupid?
I'm just thinking on Scotch whisky... :D
Rotoi should be a single, independent pipsqueak instead of being 3 whole teams. :D (kidding)
A reason of dubious relevance to cheer the "No" is that the Union is a such a major historical oddity at this day and age, and I like historical oddities.
Aye.
I support it, and I'm disappointed that "No" won. Generally I support stronger relations between the countries of Europe - which the UK refuses, as they still think that they are a big empire with no need to co-operate with others. It would be good if at least Scotland was out of this wannabe empire. Even the current, extremely bureaucratic EU is not as strongly controlled by the short-term interests of global corporates as the UK...
Btw, for us in SW Norway it would have been especially good if our neighbours over the sea were not living in a "foreign empire", but in an ordinary country, and if building economic relations towards them was as easy as towards Sweden or Denmark.
http://youtu.be/0YBumQHPAeU
Eduardo Jorge, the actual Green candidate (i.e. not Marina) and, alongside Luciana Genro, one of the few to make an unambiguous stand against the "family values" moralistic grovelling in fashion these days. I didn't particularly care about the results of the first round as long as no one would reach an overall majority, ensuring a runoff. As for the runoff, I lean towards Dilma, though with zero enthusiasm. To me, re-electing her seems somewhat less worse than bringing back "Third Way" (in the 90's sense) Aécio/PSDB. In any case, take any alarmist reports you might read with a grain of salt: there is ridiculous scaremongering coming from both sides, and it will only get worse in the coming weeks.
I noted the same. Marina Silva's popularity growed up a lot in the last months but her speech was abstract.
We will vote president next year and I feel the same. I don't want to vote the present government candidate (whoever will be) and in the other side there is a candidate (or two) puppets of a business group + foreign interests. I'll never vote a business group candidate but I guess we need some changes. The worst part is there isn't a competent healthy opposition.
Indeed. The lingering feeling is that there wasn't much between her and Aécio other than feel-good "new politics" handwaving and a worrying lack of clarity.
Same here. It would be great to have a credible left-of-centre alternative to PT able to gather mainstream support.
copypaste Hungary :)
Just guess from that... Orbán is Putin's slave, which is quite bizarre since Fidesz is a "right wing party" (when they were in opposition, they protested against everything related to Russia - and still barking about "communist sins"), while Putin is clearly a post-communist president/dictator.
http://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2014/03/13/a-brief-summary-of-the-russian-hungarian-agreement-on-the-paks-nuclear-power-plant/
Still, it's a dirty move. My daily data transfer is about 500-1000 MB (no IPTV, no Torrent, just from browsing the web and watching YouTube videos).
I don't really care about the corruption case (the whole issue is not surprising at all), since it's well-known that our country is a fuckin' corrupt one. Not only the politicians, not only the state system, but even civilians like doctors with their parasolvency or policemen, teachers, etc. Only the number of zeros in the amount of bribe money is different in their case.
Yes, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panrusg%C3%A1z
???
I'm not a Fidesz supporter - never was and never will be. I'm also quite disgusted by the general attitude of Hungarian people.
Leader of the National Tax and Customs Administration of Hungary (NTCA) is also involved in a serious corruption issue. It's quite funny from somebody being responsible for tax and anti-corruption cases...
Maybe you misunderstood what I said. Real Madrid is a strong team, but still, I hate it. Admitting that Putin's power demonstration is quite effective against the imponent Western leaders does not mean that I like what he did.
You're right but I hope you don't think Europe is a victim on this situation. The whole European civilization was built sucking blood from others and still it's like that. Don't pretend to be so naive.
OFF:
There are unidentified flying objects (which are not equal to "ufonauts") - most/all of them are unidentified just because they are not enough interesting to get identified (flashes from natural phenomena, meteorites, satellites, etc). The alien story is of course a fairy tale. I don't say there are no other intelligent species with higher level of technical progress in this universe, but why would they come here - just to annoy some brainwashed peasants with <80 IQ? :D
Don't be naive, nothing will change.
4 years...
Merkel is just a clumsy and badly dressed old woman who should have stayed at the field of physics instead of acting like a powerless politician. She's a christian democratic chancellor, but her attitude is way too liberal for my taste.
On the other hand, Putin is not communist at all. He's just a strong hand dictator in a giant surreal empire, without real opposition. Western Europe can't like or respect him - but they are afraid of his power.
Women are genetically weak leaders. It's not sexism, just biology. Male and female brain is working differently, therefore they have different strenghts and weaknesses.
I also have a female boss: she's one of the greatest and the most respected experts in this field (in Hungary) - but she absolutely lacks leading skills or sense to HR policy.
Well, I did not say "all men are good leaders". When I got a team for a certain project at my former workplace, I was a crappy coordinator (gave no real tasks to the others because I thought they won't be able to solve it - therefore I completed 95% of the project alone).
Deja vu? :D
I don't trust in other people's skills, but I want to make a quality work - so I keep everything for myself. Maybe a bit egoistic, but still the best solution in most of the cases. And the exhausting one...
(Luckily I'm not there anymore.)
???
I left that department almost 3 years ago.
The boss I respect the most and have learned the most from in terms of leadership and organizational skills was a women.
This is a typical mistake, overcoming this weakness is step one of becoming a good leader. On the other hand, you must not fall to the other extreme and delegating all work to your team while you are doing nothing. I have done both mistakes and have learned from them. :D
That's bullshit, and you know it is because there's zero research to prove that this is caused by biological sex differences, and there are countless exceptions to the general rule that more men excel at high-profile leadership.
But that was not what I was referring to. What I meant was that you characterized Merkel by her appearance and specifically the way she's dressed. You would never draw attention to how a white male head of state is dressed. It's because of that kind of preconception that women are unable to gain recognition for their accomplishments in fields like politics. Because men like you focus on how they dress instead.
Unless your workmates are too dumb to solve the problem.
Have you read the second part of my message? The dressing part was just a comment. I find her a weak, too liberal leader - even if she's a right-wing policy maker. As for me, such a great and strong country should not allow to get diluted by "colorful" invaders. Yeah, I'm not only sexist, but racist too.
Okay, let's overcome my obvious hate against n*ggers, gypsies, etc. Do you think Merkel is a strong leader? She's the head of the strongest (?) European economy, but still, she can't make a pressure on Russia or even on renitent EU members (like Hungary). Yes, it stands for any Western European leaders. They can warn you endlessly, but they won't ever act. Remember, how many times did Hungary infringe the general rules and principles of EU. What was the punishment? Warning, warning, warning... nothing else. That's a sign of weakness.
Okay, you answered the EU vs Russia question. Now try to find out something for Western Europe vs renitent eastern EU countries. Even such a little and crappy country (Orbanistan) can behave unashamedly without real consequences. EU would lose nothing with excluding Hungary from the members, but still, they don't act.
Because growing the size of the EU is their only chance to grow the potential of the EU being a first-row player in world politics, to change the situation that is currently well described in Rotoi's message. This is only possible through attracting additional countries to join. Unfortunately Orban knows this and plays this too well.
By the way I don't think it is possible to "fire" an EU member state but I'd have to double check the EU constitution.
Okay, there's no way to exclude a country - but they can be suspended. Or suspending only the diplomatic contacts, just like it happened to Austria (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union).
Damn, the same situation was here in 2003. We were disappointed about the politicians then the winner had 23% and the "voto en blanco" sorry I don't know how to say it was very high.
Actually the low IQ masses can decide an election. Unfortunately the Hungarian sheeps are Fidesz fans.
Thank you for a stylish delivery of the classic racist juxtaposition.
In the first part of your post, you talk about "immigrants/minorities", and then in the last part, it's "deviant, agressive behaviour". It's the guilt by association I mainly have a problem with. People who share ethnic characteristics with criminals have to take on the blame for the criminals' actions. This only ever happens with minorities because they are viewed from the outside in all public discourse and the dominant group defines itself by its difference to the minorities. You could come to some other country and quickly become part of the "Magyar problem" if some of your countrymen committed crimes. You'd no longer be in a position of power. I guess the position of power can be used to absolve oneself of responsibility by making another group "dirty" and thereby allowing oneself to use one's membership of one's own group as an argument for one's own purity.
It bothers me because, in Denmark, Hungary and everywhere else, people get punished for the crimes of others. This is not fair. Even if it's just casual hate like yours, it's a problem. In order to live a proper life and to function in a society, you need other people. If everyone judges you because of your ethnicity and not your actions, you have no chance to succeed in society, so you can only turn to your own minority group, and so follows more segregation and antipathy, when everyone could just be working together instead.
Nobody should tolerate anyone's aggressive behaviour or cheating with benefits.
Everyone should tolerate deviant behaviour because you and everyone else should be free to do what you want.
In Denmark, the situation also bothers me because of its economic implications. Dansk Folkeparti wants to cut down on all international cooperations, drastically limiting our business possibilites, thereby making us poorer in the long run.
I'm also one from "everyone" and I want to have a calm and silent life. Shall I really be the one to suffer from their stupid lifestyle?
From a bit different aspect:
I guess you agree with the "live and let live" principle. As long as something does not harm this balance, smaller deviations can be tolerated.
But what do you do and think when something crosses this border, when something is disturbing your life, limits you or simply keeps you in fear? Why do you think it's okay that a loud little group embitters the majority's life? It mustn't be an ethnic group in this case. If you live in a house with 20 flats and 20 families, 19 from them are silent and law-abiding, while a single one does not care of the others (loud, dangerous, or simply does not follow the hygenic rules), is it really the best solution to tolerate? That's not me who doesn't let him leave - rather the opposite.
On the other hand, people who follow the rules deserve more rights. And normal lifestyle should enjoy priority over deviants. I don't care if they behave like that, but they should do it elsewhere - where it is tolerated (in their home country maybe).
Oh wait, gypsies have no country at all. They were driven out even from India...
You are pretty deviant yourself. Yet others tolerate you - similar to most people here on the forum.
I'm talking about REAL LIFE. When I'm offline, my image is still the "clever good guy, being polite to anyone", favourite of grannies and hopeless teenage chicks.
Well, knowing these opinions, I think it's a sort of poetic justice if you get bothered a lot by the Roma because you really deserve it. But in principle, the behaviour you describe is not a case of deviance to me, but disrespect. If someone is very loud or soils other people's property or damages common property, that's not "live and let live". A building should have some house rules and it's important that different areas have different lifestyles so the loud people can live and the quiet ones can too.
People like you are way more bothered by this kind of thing because you've built up an enormous racist mental construct. It also bothers me if some immigrant guys steal my bike, but it doesn't bother me anymore than if a white guy did it. It just means I lost my bike. There's nothing else to it.
There's not much I can say to you if you want your enemies in a mass grave. I think we can all get that feeling sometimes, but to have it as a conscious opinion... well... it's because of you that we had two world wars, and if everyone else was as hateful as you, we'd have a third one in a matter of weeks. So it's a lucky break for me and for you and for everyone else that other people have opened up some more room in their hearts.
I agree. It's not the first time in history this happens. Apart from Hungary, the scariest country in the EU is the United Kingdom. UK and Hungary are the new fascist front of Europe.
I wish there was more focus on the relationship between psychology and politics. Does anthropology deal with that a lot? It's a very important factor and it's almost, well, collectively suppressed :-)
I have a cloudy memory about something with WSM 2006 or 2008, gypsy homeless people and Bonzai Joe. Probably I told BJ not to contact with them, because they must be dirty and ill. I was drunk for sure.
I don't agree with that. I take my political stances based on a consistent moral framework, and I'm not the only one.
It's not objective good and evil, and of course no one in politics does something just to be evil. To me, evil means working for your own interests even when it's harmful to others. It also means adhering to abstract principles in the face of human suffering. This is why I think of the last few Israeli governments as evil. They adhere to the idea the Israel must occupy the entire "promised land" (just a story made up by the same people now conquering the land), so they inflict a lot of concrete human suffering on people who have done no wrong (just living where they were born and raised) by allowing and fencing and protectign settlements in the middle of other people's land. This is what I mean by evil.
One of Orbán's nickname was "Cárevics" (forming a usual Slavian name from the word 'Tsar') during his first goverment period, caricaturing his lust for power. I like to call him 0th Viktor king.
Economic downturn + corruption scandals + a politically weak and generally adrift government => demonstrators and sectors of the opposition (*) crying "Impeachment!". That has been the default state of affairs since January, so there is nothing to be too overtly worried about (**).
(*) I'd rather say overexcited demonstrators and sectors of agitators within the opposition, but that's my own political slant, and so YMMV.
(**) Of course the three things I listed at the beginning are quite worrying. I just mean we are not at the brink of an institutional crisis or anything really serious like that.
Oh please don't even mention our arrogant asshole politicians using all living and non-living only to increase and strenghten their personal growth and power :(
Largely thanks to the threads here, I did bark "asshole" at the TV screen when Orbán showed up in the morning news today.
I can't say much about Oman, but Yemen has a civil war of their own to deal with. As for Israel, hell freezing over seems more likely than that country taking Syrian refugees. I guess the infographic is targeted at those very rich Arab states from whom more solidarity might be expected.
Where to? Let's sync so we can end up closer to eachother :D
How does this work? Do you get full voting rights, or limited to some extent? What are the criterias you have to meet to be able to vote in Norway?
Well, in the 1930's there were a lot of better countries to live than Germany. But where is it better today than in Scandinavia? Anywhere you go, there is even less concern about the future of the society and the environment, and short-term economic profit is even more important... The only exceptions are some dictatorships where you would have no freedom and rights in your everyday life. (The relatively most livable one may be Cuba, but it is going to fall now, "thanks" to the US.)
For voting in the local elections (town/city/county council), one has to be a resident in Norway for 3 years continuously. But only Norwegian citizens can vote in the general (parliament) elections. Requirements for the citizenship are 8 years continuous residence, language exam and a test on Norwegian history and society. This is my goal - I still have 5 years to improve my Norwegian... (Btw, shorter residence is required and no test is needed for people coming from Denmark/Sweden/Finland/Iceland.)
It is very generous to allow voting after three years residence. The citizenship requirements sound tough (e.g. UK only requires 5 years as far I know) - but in my opinion the Norwegian requirements seem fair, considering the status of the country. I assume there is no shortcut for rich foreigners as in many other countries.
1) I think it's a joke and it should be abolished as soon as possible. But most of the population loves it so that won't happen in my lifetime.
2) Yes, I guess so. I think your question contains some very strong arguments for Denmark to work for closer international cooperation and a stronger EU, but unfortunately there is a strong sentiment of "ain't nobody gonna mess with OUR potato fields" here. "People" (in a very broad sense with very many exceptions) are wary of all kinds of foreigners except perhaps white people from Sweden and Norway (and maybe Britain and USA).
In the city, where I live, national sentiment doesn't mean very much on a conscious level. People here don't actively identify as Danish. However, in the countryside, national sentiment appears to be much more prevalent - perhaps in the absence of local sentiment.
3) We are very friendly with Norway and Norwegians. We make jokes about them and they make jokes about us. We still think of them as a sibling country. Sweden: also very friendly relations, but because of Sweden's progressive politics, some Danes are more wary of Sweden. As your question regarded people not politics, I'd say Swedish and Norwegian people are some of the few people that most of us here actually manage to view as equals. All the jokes and stereotypes only speak of jovial relations.
4) Russia: Public opinion here is against Russia and particularly against Putin, but it's not something we feel very strongly about.
Germany: My grandmother was born in 1917 and died in 2011. Right until the end, she harbored a deep-rooted disdain for Germany. I think everyone from younger generations has accepted that Germany learned a lesson after WWII and terms are friendly. Generally, we see them as responsible, related and profoundly European. They are definitely more foreign than Sweden and Norway, though.
USA: as in many other countries, opinions on USA are divided along the left/right spectrum. Generally, we are very pro-USA, but the left wing is not. When George W. ruled the US, we were less enthusiastic. We always relate better to Democratic presidents. Politically, we are probably the #1 ass-kisser of the USA. It's horrible.
I find it quite annoying that, regardless of where you are in the world, odds are that any party named "republican" will suck. My mind insists in associating that adjective with good things.
"Eno who? Must be another parasite bankrolled by the Rouanet Law!"
Duplode, your joke is brazilian understandable only
Indeed! Here goes some context. The post above refers to the following inference: in Brazil, the Rouanet Law makes financial contributions by companies to artistic projects tax-deducible. A number of artists receive funds thanks to it, in effect having their projects subsidised by the government. Now, it also happens that many artists lean left politically, or hold PT/Dilma/the federal government in some esteem, or simply are against the impeachment. "Therefore", those artists are merely propaganda tools bought by the government through the Rouanet Law. This sophistical conclusion is very commonly seen in comment boxes across the Brazilian part of the Internet...
A little over three years ago, I posted this:
And look where we are now. That should teach me not to tempt fate...
Bolsonaro's remarks on this exchange of pleasantries included a stupefying quote about dictatorships (I won't pollute the server by reproducing it here). But who am I kidding? In an age of post-truth, gall becomes a virtue (https://www.dw.com/en/brazil-german-embassy-triggers-bizarre-nazi-and-holocaust-debate/a-45577454).
But the layer of clay and makeup that cover his skin protects him from most diseases, and small caliber weapons :o
;D ;D ;D
I am looking forward to see the vice presidential candidates. He/she will automatically get the seat if something happens to the president, and that was never as probable as now.
It would be. And that would be a problem.
Unfortunately, that's not what happened, and that's not the reoccurring pattern. So it's both a socio-political minefield and a problem.
What's this, "ah, the good old days"? Getting old and conservative?
The 21st century can bring its problems on, but people need to work on fixing them, instead of closing doors and pretend they are not there. Some old days were good for some people, but it turns out it was a minority, and often at the expenses of others. Some rebalancing is going to happen, and you can be responsive, and maybe help direct the change, or defensive and have no say in the process.
Actually, I still belong to the extreme right wing. For me, Orbán and Trump are just dumb and populist shitheads with no real intention to behave like a real right wing politican. (While liberals think Orbán is a "nazi dictator". LOL. He's not.)
I hate policemen (and especially policewomen) enough to find this case important. For me, it is not about torturing niggers, rather about the police-terrorism which is also present in Hungary.
Maybe I am the one here who lives the closest to Ukraine (border ~150 km away), but I am safe, fortunately.
I am not interested. Life after WW3 will suck anyway.
If you were not safe, that would mean WW3, where distances do not really matter anymore. Chances may be slightly better for the South American pipsqueaks.
Good to hear!
Areas so close to the border will probably have to deal with refugees and wounded in the coming days. That might put extra strain on hospitals too, which are already under Covid pressure. Hopefully, EU / UN will not mess this up, and send sufficient medical support.
NATO has never invaded anything: it is a defence pact, and any country can ask to join. That's what the Baltic republics did, feeling threatened by Russia. And that's what Ukraine would have liked to do as well: if they were part of it, they would have allies and be a more difficult target.
The main issue here is that Western Europe has a "we can be rich by being nice to each other" approach, and expands by convincing other countries to be nice to each other. Russia has historically been an imperialistic country, which expands by force (military or otherwise), and is threatened by the concept of "being nice". Ukraine was becoming too nice, Belarus was getting there, and Putin decided it was too risky for him and Russia's power structure.
I was talking about Russia's current invasion. But yes, NATO did invade Yugoslavia. They bomb the country without a war declaration or UN authorization. It means a war crime.
This is not a good vs evil sides... both are evil and in the middle is the people. You, me, Ukranian people, etc. Europe (eastern and western) would live better without USA and Russia pushing the countries to do what they want.
Well, I would ask Norwegians whether they chose Stavanger or Debrecen airport to stay at in this case. Or to drive M3 highway in Hungary or some Southern Norwegian highways.
With this perception, World Map would be totally different than you could see now.
Oh, yeah, let ethnic Hungarians, independently from Czech/Romanian/French/British/Russian interests, come back to be annexed to Hungary or at least let them found the autonomous state of Erdély/Vajdaság/Felvidék...
Unfortunately, World Map isn't drawn by ethnic and religious borders. That is the driving force of New World Order.
Yes, a bit naive was my comment :D
There is not much I can do about the situation. But I am paying for it in a way.
Inflation here has risen a lot, almost 12%, never been so high since WW2.
And although I'm getting in financial problems over it, it does have an impact.
We are safe, and hopefully will stay safe. But it does worry me.
I hope for everyone it will eventually just blow over...
The German sight of the Hungarian election outcome: :(
My sight of the Hungarian election outcome: (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNV2KBcoxZYp_xF1vtGBilINxozVXwL_IhPr_5oy4&usqp=CAU)
Germans should not forget that Orban got an awful lot of support from Merkel & her government through EU funds and investments, despite all their nice words on the importance of democracy. What really counted was that Orban made Hungary a paradise for German companies, providing cheap workforce, low company taxes, weak environment laws and easily bribed officials.
Most of the people I know thinks the same (including myself)... I truly can't believe the result (especially the overwhelming difference)...
There are different kinds of unsecurity.
1st) we are talking about the possibility or not of an international armed conflict.
2)if a nato country is attacked all the group (bah, let's be honest, the US) will defend you.
3) let's keep in the honest way, just like in the UE there are unnoficial class members. Baltic states and most ex Warsaw pact countries are a class B members from the western point of view (usa, uk, fr, ger...).
4) in Romania you have the Russian-Ukranian conflict pretty close. Not a joke the black sea conflicts with the ukranian grain pact or the maritime drones and mines exploding everywhere very close of your part of the sea. Also the Transnistria problem (a separatist part of Moldova that is separated from the government where Russia has troops).
Anyway, any armed conflict with Russia is out of the table because both sides doesn't want it for several reasons (we can list some of them but I think it's not worth). Both sides will loose a lot whoever will be the war winner, the economic spend will be not a business. And that is what moves the world: money and power.
One different thing is when Nato invaded Iraq or bombed Serbia or Syria. Another different thing is to fight a big strong and nucleat country. It would carry the conflict in a long term war and it is not economic worth.
About Argentina the unsecurity is from another angle. i'm disappointed about the last elections. I felt debastated but we must carry on. The domination from the US is different here. They own us by debt, making from time to time our economy implode. They buy some politicians to work for them. Pretty sad. Our problem is not with a neighbor but with ourselves. Some of our politicians are "employee" of foreign powers and makes desitions against the people. Sad.
NATO as an organisation was part (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations) (cause? aggravator?) in the mess in Serbia, but was never actually involved in Iraq or Syria. That was all US and "special relations" like the UK, plus Russia and Iran 🤦
"Coalition of the willing" 😬
I mean 2003's invassion of Iraq. You are right it wasn't NATO saying "I will invade" but it was an international coalition invading the country where half of them were NATO members: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq
PS: Anyway, officially NATO was there with a small contingent of around 150 advisers under the collective command NATO Training Mission – Iraq (withdrawn 12/11). Still invaders.
Yep, I also meant that one. The article you link is to the third group, in 2004, which also included support from Jordan and UAE. All of the country involved where also UN members, but you don't say "the UN invaded".
The first (and second) forces to actually invade Iraq (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq) a year earlier where US, UK, Australia and Poland. Good chunks of of the EU (or NATO, if you prefer) at the time were going "WTF are you doing?! 😱" And then the whole false documentation about weapons of mass destruction thing followed.
Well, the only point I wanted to make is that NATO messed up badly in the ex-Yugoslavia area, and did some work to avoid doing the same mistakes later. Iraq 2003 was a US led (misled?) thing, and NATO as a structure only participate as you described, with instructors and trainers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Training_Mission_%E2%80%93_Iraq) for what (at that point, and with all caveats) was the recognised government. Happy for you to call them "invaders", but I prefer to remember the difference between 160'000 soldiers entering a country with weapons, with the idea of "we don't like what's going on here, we'll shoot people", and 160 people two years later, with the mission of "ok, there's a mess here now, can we help create some stability?"
Question: Somehow I think Obama won't be a president for a long time. What do you think?
Option 1: He'll be the president for 8 years.
votes: 7
Option 2: He'll be the president for 4 years.
votes: 7
Option 3: He'll fail earlier because of the economical crisis.
votes: 1
Option 4: He'll be murdered earlier by terrorists/Ku Klux Klan/McCain/Hillary Clinton 
votes: 7
votes: 7
Title: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 17, 2006, 11:30:32 AM
Post by: CTG on November 17, 2006, 11:30:32 AM
Everything about politics! Do you hate Bush? Don't you agree with killing Saddam? What do you think about military goverments in Africa? You can tell here!
French guys: Segolene Royal - what's your opinion about her? Do we need another powerful female leader like Angela Merkel?
French guys: Segolene Royal - what's your opinion about her? Do we need another powerful female leader like Angela Merkel?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: vamologocomisso on November 17, 2006, 12:42:52 PM
Post by: vamologocomisso on November 17, 2006, 12:42:52 PM
CTG, is this a politics sub-forum or new opportunites to spam ? :P
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 17, 2006, 05:54:03 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 17, 2006, 05:54:03 PM
I don't think anyone disagrees enough here to get a real flamewar going...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on November 19, 2006, 12:31:41 AM
Post by: Krys TOFF on November 19, 2006, 12:31:41 AM
Quote from: CTG1/ I hate G.W. Bush. And I'm proud of it. I don't hate all Americans, just those who still support this crazy man.
Everything about politics! Do you hate Bush? Don't you agree with killing Saddam? What do you think about military goverments in Africa? You can tell here!
French guys: Segolene Royal - what's your opinion about her? Do we need another powerful female leader like Angela Merkel?
2/ Saddam killed numerous people, he deserves to die. Saddam should have been judged after the 1st war in Iraq, this second war was just a stupid desire of G.W. Bush to follow the steps of his father. G.W. Bush you're a stupid asshole, you are the only weapon of mass destruction really dangerous.
3/ Military governments in Africa ? Well, there's no oil there, so USA's slave called United Nations won't react and let the people die and suffer... A shame.
4/ Segolene Royal is the puppet of Lionel Jospin and Fran?ois Hollande. She's no "powerful female leader". Mich?le Alliot-Marie could be the French Angela Merkel, she has "guts". I don't like women with "guts" anyway, I don't want to see a French Margaret Tatcher. Nicolas Sarkozy is the French G.W. Bush, if he is elected I fear for France and Europe. For me Fran?ois Bayrou is the best choice for future president but he probably won't be elected (I hope I'm wrong)... ::)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on November 19, 2006, 01:25:24 PM
Post by: JTK on November 19, 2006, 01:25:24 PM
???
I do not hate anybody.
In my opinion noone has the right to kill or may be killed by anyone.
I will not answer any more in this thread, I guess... :-\ :-X
I do not hate anybody.
In my opinion noone has the right to kill or may be killed by anyone.
I will not answer any more in this thread, I guess... :-\ :-X
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on November 19, 2006, 07:58:12 PM
Post by: Usrin on November 19, 2006, 07:58:12 PM
1) I also hate Bush. It's disgusting when such a stupid man thinks that only he can solve all problems of the world, and there are so many people who support him without any critics. And if it's not enough, the most disgusting is when this person treat us as little children. ("I'm a good guy who'll defeat the enemies of democracy"... etc.)
2) I agree with JTK, nobody has the right to kill another person, even if this person is a mass murderer like Saddam. Btw, I think death is not heavier punishment than a long-long suffer in prison, whilst the criminal can consider a thousand times what he has done...
3) Well, there is no oil in most African countries (except a few ones like Nigeria). But they have other important mineral resources like copper, gold or diamond, and I think most of these African leaders are financially supported by companies interested in this business. Independent governments (whether millitary or democratic) would immediately impose higher taxes and stronger restrictions on these companies. And why don't copper (gold, silver, uranium, etc.) producing countries develop an organization like OPEC, for controlling the prices of world market and becoming rich like Saudi Arabia or Qatar? The most probable solution is that African (and some South American) governments are puppets of multinational firms... My opinion is not too popular, but I think that it was a serious fault of European countries when they suddenly gave independence to their African colonies in the second half of 20th century. They could know that borders of these countries are totally different from the boundaries between nations, they could know that possible talented leaders were very rare in Africa (because of the poor education), so permanent wars were coded into the new system. It was good for nobody except some Western firms who got extremely cheap human power and extremely advantageous tax systems from the "independent" governments...
4) Sorry, I'm not French. :)
2) I agree with JTK, nobody has the right to kill another person, even if this person is a mass murderer like Saddam. Btw, I think death is not heavier punishment than a long-long suffer in prison, whilst the criminal can consider a thousand times what he has done...
3) Well, there is no oil in most African countries (except a few ones like Nigeria). But they have other important mineral resources like copper, gold or diamond, and I think most of these African leaders are financially supported by companies interested in this business. Independent governments (whether millitary or democratic) would immediately impose higher taxes and stronger restrictions on these companies. And why don't copper (gold, silver, uranium, etc.) producing countries develop an organization like OPEC, for controlling the prices of world market and becoming rich like Saudi Arabia or Qatar? The most probable solution is that African (and some South American) governments are puppets of multinational firms... My opinion is not too popular, but I think that it was a serious fault of European countries when they suddenly gave independence to their African colonies in the second half of 20th century. They could know that borders of these countries are totally different from the boundaries between nations, they could know that possible talented leaders were very rare in Africa (because of the poor education), so permanent wars were coded into the new system. It was good for nobody except some Western firms who got extremely cheap human power and extremely advantageous tax systems from the "independent" governments...
4) Sorry, I'm not French. :)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on December 31, 2006, 06:37:10 PM
Post by: JTK on December 31, 2006, 06:37:10 PM
Quote from: CTG on December 30, 2006, 04:39:14 AM..which turns everything to a better world, I suppose... :(
They killed Saddam!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on December 31, 2006, 08:54:44 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on December 31, 2006, 08:54:44 PM
Too bad Saddam was killed by American's decision and not Iraq's people decision.
Too bad Pinochet died naturally instead of beeing judged and killed by Chilean people, like Caucescu was some years ago in Romania.
Dictators are not equal...
Too bad Pinochet died naturally instead of beeing judged and killed by Chilean people, like Caucescu was some years ago in Romania.
Dictators are not equal...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 21, 2007, 07:18:04 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 21, 2007, 07:18:04 PM
Hahaha, do you still think like that in Hungary? Welcome to the 21st century, you can skip the 20th...
Anyway, I'm not too excited about Hillary Clinton. Although she was never/is not a feminist, I think she has become a political void, and maybe a bit too populistic. My choice for president of USA is John Edwards - here's someone who will really do something about poverty (or at least he says he will, which is more than the rest of the candidates). Barack Obama? Nah, he's just in fashion, I haven't heard him say anything politically interesting.
But of course any democrat is better than someone from the war & stupidity party.
Anyway, I'm not too excited about Hillary Clinton. Although she was never/is not a feminist, I think she has become a political void, and maybe a bit too populistic. My choice for president of USA is John Edwards - here's someone who will really do something about poverty (or at least he says he will, which is more than the rest of the candidates). Barack Obama? Nah, he's just in fashion, I haven't heard him say anything politically interesting.
But of course any democrat is better than someone from the war & stupidity party.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on January 21, 2007, 08:44:14 PM
Post by: JTK on January 21, 2007, 08:44:14 PM
Quote from: CTG on January 21, 2007, 05:36:42 PMLOL - to me that sounds like an opinion from Akoss... :)
Hillary Clinton has lust for power - stupid feminist whore!
First man of policy mustn't be a woman.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on January 21, 2007, 10:15:36 PM
Post by: zaqrack on January 21, 2007, 10:15:36 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on January 21, 2007, 07:18:04 PM
Hahaha, do you still think like that in Hungary? Welcome to the 21st century, you can skip the 20th...
eh, some people do...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on January 21, 2007, 11:41:52 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on January 21, 2007, 11:41:52 PM
Of course Hillary Clinton must die, just like all maleish bitches, I also do insist on my opinion. We shouldn't let all the assets of our gender perish! Let's fight!!! B?FF!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 22, 2007, 09:57:23 AM
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 22, 2007, 09:57:23 AM
Does Monica Lewinski has a brother in order to be the trainee of President Hillary Clinton ? :D
Anyway, she would be way much better president than G.W. Bushit !
Anyway, she would be way much better president than G.W. Bushit !
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on January 22, 2007, 10:38:52 AM
Post by: JTK on January 22, 2007, 10:38:52 AM
Quote from: zaqrack on January 21, 2007, 10:15:36 PMThe exception proves the rule. ;DQuote from: BonzaiJoe on January 21, 2007, 07:18:04 PM
Hahaha, do you still think like that in Hungary? Welcome to the 21st century, you can skip the 20th...
eh, some people do...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Overdrijf on January 25, 2007, 02:51:29 PM
Post by: Overdrijf on January 25, 2007, 02:51:29 PM
Why would be want a man to be president of the united states? The job sucks, let women get the blame for everything going wrong in the world. I want to "love" myself up the social ladder too. I want power to women. One condition: leave stunts alone.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 25, 2007, 03:18:38 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 25, 2007, 03:18:38 PM
Quote from: OverdrijfWhy would be want a man to be president of the united states? The job sucks, let women get the blame for everything going wrong in the world. I want to "love" myself up the social ladder too. I want power to women. One condition: leave stunts alone.Hey, there are some girls who raced at ZakStunts in the past, Lised even joined at 2006 WSM (World Stunts Meeting).
I want to see numerous girls racing Stunts. ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Helen_Wheels on January 25, 2007, 03:50:37 PM
Post by: Helen_Wheels on January 25, 2007, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: OverdrijfI want power to women.So do I ! :D
Quote from: OverdrijfOne condition: leave stunts alone.:o This is because I broke too much fast cars, isn't it ? :'(
Sorry, I just can't help it... :-[
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Skid_Vicious on January 25, 2007, 04:03:48 PM
Post by: Skid_Vicious on January 25, 2007, 04:03:48 PM
Quote from: CTGWomen's task: cook, wash, skid.Yeah !
Girls should always consider taking care of me as their task. :D
Quote from: Overdrijflet women get the blame for everything going wrong in the world.Music to my ears ! ;D
Quote from: OverdrijfI want power to women. One condition: leave stunts alone.Girls should not have the right to drive AT ALL !!! >:(
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on January 25, 2007, 04:26:33 PM
Post by: JTK on January 25, 2007, 04:26:33 PM
Helen - go away! I'm still broken with you! >:(
Skid - who asked you to come here? Learn some racing first! ;D
Skid - who asked you to come here? Learn some racing first! ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Skid_Vicious on January 25, 2007, 04:39:52 PM
Post by: Skid_Vicious on January 25, 2007, 04:39:52 PM
Quote from: JTKSkid - who asked you to come here? Learn some racing first! ;DRead my lips Tiberius : I'm not Bernie, I am Skid, I AM STUNTS ! You all deserve respect to ME !
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on January 26, 2007, 10:35:33 AM
Post by: JTK on January 26, 2007, 10:35:33 AM
Sorry guy - you don't even survive one of my contest tracks, go home. And let us race, as we can do it. Even (some years ago) when I opponent-blasted you, you still were a nothing. And you will ever be.
But your hard rocking attitude still is sooooo cute... tweetietweedeldidoo... :D
8)
But your hard rocking attitude still is sooooo cute... tweetietweedeldidoo... :D
8)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Skid_Vicious on January 26, 2007, 12:30:08 PM
Post by: Skid_Vicious on January 26, 2007, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: JTKSorry guy - you don't even survive one of my contest tracks, go home. And let us race, as we can do it. Even (some years ago) when I opponent-blasted you, you still were a nothing. And you will ever be.Tracks created by your crazy mind mean nothin' to me. My way to run is fats and jumpy. and you always put an elevated corner after a jump ! Crazyness non-sense ! >:(
Quote from: JTKBut your hard rocking attitude still is sooooo cute... tweetietweedeldidoo... :DYeah, I'm born into attitude, asleep at the wheel. I throw all my bullets in the fire, and run like Hell ! 8)
8)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Bernie_Rubber on January 26, 2007, 12:32:40 PM
Post by: Bernie_Rubber on January 26, 2007, 12:32:40 PM
Quote from: Skid_Vicious on January 26, 2007, 12:30:08 PMI would be pleased if you can create tracks without jump, without elevated corners, without corks, ... Straight roads and banked corners only. Please.Quote from: JTKSorry guy - you don't even survive one of my contest tracks, go home. And let us race, as we can do it. Even (some years ago) when I opponent-blasted you, you still were a nothing. And you will ever be.Tracks created by your crazy mind mean nothin' to me. My way to run is fats and jumpy. and you always put an elevated corner after a jump ! Crazyness non-sense ! >:(
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Otto_Partz on January 26, 2007, 12:39:33 PM
Post by: Otto_Partz on January 26, 2007, 12:39:33 PM
Squealin' Bernie is right.
Only good indy race is without jumps.
Is there jumps in Formula 1 ? No way.
Only good indy race is without jumps.
Is there jumps in Formula 1 ? No way.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on January 26, 2007, 12:46:19 PM
Post by: JTK on January 26, 2007, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Skid_Vicious on January 26, 2007, 12:30:08 PM:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I throw all my bullets in the fire, and run like Hell ! 8)
You mean: "run like a snail"! ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on January 26, 2007, 12:47:43 PM
Post by: JTK on January 26, 2007, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Otto_Partz on January 26, 2007, 12:39:33 PM*Yawn* This is Stunts, man!
Is there jumps in Formula 1 ? No way.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 26, 2007, 12:54:26 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 26, 2007, 12:54:26 PM
Quote from: JTK on January 26, 2007, 12:46:19 PMLOL ! This will make Skid angry for sure ! :DQuote from: Skid_Vicious on January 26, 2007, 12:30:08 PM:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I throw all my bullets in the fire, and run like Hell ! 8)
You mean: "run like a snail"! ;D
Quote from: Skid_Vicious on January 26, 2007, 12:30:08 PMMmmm, Skid's sentence remind me something... ::) ???Quote from: JTKBut your hard rocking attitude still is sooooo cute... tweetietweedeldidoo... :DYeah, I'm born into attitude, asleep at the wheel. I throw all my bullets in the fire, and run like Hell ! 8)
8)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 26, 2007, 01:05:27 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 26, 2007, 01:05:27 PM
Quote from: Krys TOFF on January 26, 2007, 12:54:26 PMQuote from: Skid_Vicious on January 26, 2007, 12:30:08 PMMmmm, Skid's sentence remind me something... ::) ???Quote from: JTKBut your hard rocking attitude still is sooooo cute... tweetietweedeldidoo... :DYeah, I'm born into attitude, asleep at the wheel. I throw all my bullets in the fire, and run like Hell ! 8)
8)
Got it : Metallica - Attitude !!! 8)
Suppose I say, I'm never satisfied
Suppose I say, he cuts the roots
To make the tree survive
Just let me kill you for a while
Just let me kill you for a smile
Just let me kill you once
I'm oh so bored to death
Oh, I hunger
I hunger
I eat
Born into attitude
Asleep at the wheel
Throw all your bullets in the fire
And run like hell
Why cure the fever ? what ever happened to sweat ?
Suppose I say, the vultures smile at me
Suppose I say, I sent them down and they plan to pick you clean
And satisfaction this way comes
And satisfaction this way comes
And satisfactions here and gone
Gone, yeah, gone again
Oh, I hunger
Oh, I hunger
I eat
Born into attitude
Asleep at the wheel
Throw all your bullets in the fire
And stand there
Born into attitude
Twist mother tongue
Throw all your bullets in the fire
And run like hell
Why cure the fever ? What ever happened to sweat ?
Just let me kill you for a while
Just let me kill you for a smile
Just let me kill you once for me
I'm bored to death
And satisfaction this way comes
And satisfaction this way comes
And satisfactions here and gone
Gone, gone again
Yeah, I hunger
Oh, I hunger
I eat
Born into attitude
Asleep at the wheel
Throw all your bullets in the fire
And stand there
Born into attitude
Twist mother tongue
Throwing all your bullets in the fire
And run like hell
Why cure the fever ? What ever happened to sweat ?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 26, 2007, 01:13:46 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 26, 2007, 01:13:46 PM
Quote from: JTK on January 26, 2007, 12:47:43 PMQuote from: Otto_Partz on January 26, 2007, 12:39:33 PM*Yawn* This is Stunts, man!
Is there jumps in Formula 1 ? No way.
This video show why indy-like car will NEVER be used for a Stunts competition IRL : http://videos.sports.fr/video/iLyROoaftZBb.html
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on January 29, 2007, 10:21:56 AM
Post by: JTK on January 29, 2007, 10:21:56 AM
:o :o :o
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Otto_Partz on January 29, 2007, 12:12:17 PM
Post by: Otto_Partz on January 29, 2007, 12:12:17 PM
Quote from: Krys TOFFWhy is MY car always involved on all these accidents ? ::) ;DQuote from: JTKThis video show why indy-like car will NEVER be used for a Stunts competition IRL : http://videos.sports.fr/video/iLyROoaftZBb.htmlQuote from: Otto_PartzIs there jumps in Formula 1 ? No way.*Yawn* This is Stunts, man!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on April 22, 2007, 11:59:34 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on April 22, 2007, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: CTGWhat about the current elections in France? Krys?Sarkozy : 30%
Royal : 25%
Bayrou : 19%
Le Pen : 11%
Others are below 5%
So it's Sarkozy vs Royal for next vote in 2 weeks. I feel sad. I probably won't vote in 2 weeks... Or maybe I'll make a null vote.
German people were clever enough to force their politicians from left and right sides to work together. Bayrou wanted to do the same in France, and French were too stupid to understand that it was the best solution according to the current situation !
The only good part is the significant decreasing of Le Pen, and the huge participation rate (around 85% of French people over 18 years old voted today).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on April 23, 2007, 03:11:23 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on April 23, 2007, 03:11:23 PM
Quote from: CTGSarkozy has Hungarian origin... :)I don't select my favorite according to their religion, colour, sex or origin...
(...)
Royal must be ignored from policy. Two female leader in Europe would be way too much. Even one is a lot.
Sarkozy likes too much the "American way of life" to be good. He is motivated by his own good and don't care of French people.
Royal is just stupid. And as long as socialists don't fire motherf*cking Fabius, I won't vote socialist.
Bayrou was the only good choice IMO. Now I know, even if Bayrou is not there in next turn, I'll vote Bayrou again. ;D
After that, in June, will will have to vote again for "legislatives" elections. This will impact the future governement, whatever the future president. I hope to see Bayrou's people lead this election to see Bayrou prime minister. ::)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on April 24, 2007, 08:32:47 AM
Post by: JTK on April 24, 2007, 08:32:47 AM
Quote from: CTG on April 23, 2007, 10:09:17 AM
Two female leader in Europe would be way too much. Even one is a lot.
Come on, CTG, don't be chauvinistic. :-\
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on May 07, 2007, 12:42:01 AM
Post by: Krys TOFF on May 07, 2007, 12:42:01 AM
Sarkozy is French new president... I just hope he won't act as is old friend G.W. "stupid" Bush and lead France to a war for oil in Irak, Iran or so.
I miss the vomit icon...
I miss the vomit icon...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on May 07, 2007, 10:21:20 AM
Post by: Krys TOFF on May 07, 2007, 10:21:20 AM
Quote from: CTGFrance has a Hungarian leader, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... ;DNo, France has G.W. Bush little brother. Sarkozy is not Hungarian, he is not really French either. He is like a motherf*cking top-right part of the American Republicans. But Royal Barbie was not a better choice anyway...
Let's hope next "legislatives" elections will make Bayrou team have the majority.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on January 31, 2008, 04:16:10 PM
Post by: Chulk on January 31, 2008, 04:16:10 PM
First chance either for a color man or a woman. We have a woman here and I don't think she'll do any good. Even if she tried, politicians around the world won't listen to a woman. So a man, even if a color one, would be better.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 31, 2008, 09:20:15 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on January 31, 2008, 09:20:15 PM
Color or sex is not a problem for me. What is said by them is.
Clinton was for war in Irak while Obama wasn't and still isn't. That's sufficient for me to whish Obama's victory.
Clinton was for war in Irak while Obama wasn't and still isn't. That's sufficient for me to whish Obama's victory.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 31, 2008, 11:02:49 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 31, 2008, 11:02:49 PM
I don't care if it's a woman, a black guy, a white guy or a japanese drag queen who is president. I think Obama seems to have better and more progressive policies than Clinton, so I support him. But anyway I consider them both smoke and mirrors, without any real political ideas and too easy to control. I was supporting John Edwards, and I'm sad he dropped out...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 01, 2008, 08:31:08 AM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 01, 2008, 08:31:08 AM
I think women who have the smallest spark of desire to be a president should all hang on the gallows!!! BÖFF!!! Forever niggers, forever Obama!!!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on February 01, 2008, 09:11:56 AM
Post by: JTK on February 01, 2008, 09:11:56 AM
Quote from: Chulk on January 31, 2008, 04:16:10 PMThat's not my opinion, look at former England's leader Margaret Thatcher: Oh yes, the resr of the world had respect!. And today polititians in the world, especially in Europe DO respect our female chancellor Angela Merkel.
politicians around the world won't listen to a woman.
(Nevertheless I did not vote for her, I don't like her inner politics at all!)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 01, 2008, 01:34:08 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 01, 2008, 01:34:08 PM
Quote from: JTK on February 01, 2008, 09:11:56 AMExcept French. ;DQuote from: Chulk on January 31, 2008, 04:16:10 PMThat's not my opinion, look at former England's leader Margaret Thatcher: Oh yes, the resr of the world had respect!
politicians around the world won't listen to a woman.
You may not know it but there was an argument between French and English people due to a French song from Renaud named "Miss Maggie". This song was an "ode" to all women (compared to men). All, but Margaret Tatcher who never was considered as a real woman in France. :D
English people didn't like it, dunno why. :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on February 01, 2008, 01:54:48 PM
Post by: JTK on February 01, 2008, 01:54:48 PM
Quote from: Krys TOFF on February 01, 2008, 01:34:08 PM
All, but Margaret Tatcher who never was considered as a real woman in France.
But so in England, too. Do you know the old English series "Spitting Image"? Ther Thatcher often met Reagan in the bathroom, both shaving their faces while speaking... :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 01, 2008, 04:37:49 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 01, 2008, 04:37:49 PM
Sadly, I never heard of "Spitting Image"...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on February 01, 2008, 04:46:20 PM
Post by: Chulk on February 01, 2008, 04:46:20 PM
Quote from: JTK on February 01, 2008, 09:11:56 AMI see your point, but you're mentioning only 2 cases in world history. And if there hadn't been more female leaders in the world, is because people still finds it difficult to listen to them. But don't get me wrong... I'm for an open-minded society, where everyone can have ideas and be listened to.Quote from: Chulk on January 31, 2008, 04:16:10 PMThat's not my opinion, look at former England's leader Margaret Thatcher: Oh yes, the resr of the world had respect!. And today polititians in the world, especially in Europe DO respect our female chancellor Angela Merkel.
politicians around the world won't listen to a woman.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on February 04, 2008, 10:58:19 AM
Post by: JTK on February 04, 2008, 10:58:19 AM
Quote from: Krys TOFF on February 01, 2008, 04:37:49 PMSorry for the English link, but the French article is far too bad...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitting_Image
Sadly, I never heard of "Spitting Image"...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 01:07:18 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 01:07:18 AM
You didn't include the republicans :)
Any Huckabee supporters around?
Any Huckabee supporters around?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 12:32:36 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 12:32:36 PM
Yes, Clinton's lead is a bit too big :-/. What's positive for Obama though is that the missing states by now are all rural states, mainly southern and midwest. Obama has been strong in that kind of states, while Clinton has been stronger in the "blue" states with big cities and lots of people.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 12:37:04 PM
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 12:37:04 PM
I'm quite surprised that Hillary won in California :-\
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 12:50:32 PM
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: CTG on February 06, 2008, 12:45:05 PM
California is a very stupid state, just think on the elected Schwarzenegger. ;D
Schwarzengger? I thought he was just a character in Simpsons? ;)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on February 06, 2008, 01:16:16 PM
Post by: JTK on February 06, 2008, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: lised on February 06, 2008, 12:50:32 PM:D :D :D
Schwarzengger? I thought he was just a character in Simpsons? ;)
You made my day,Lise!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 06, 2008, 01:36:08 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 06, 2008, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: JTK on February 04, 2008, 10:58:19 AMDon't be sorry, I can speak and read english. :D ;)Quote from: Krys TOFF on February 01, 2008, 04:37:49 PMSorry for the English link, but the French article is far too bad...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitting_Image
Sadly, I never heard of "Spitting Image"...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 04:08:12 PM
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 04:08:12 PM
Even though it doesn't look too good, I think there's still hope :D *thinks positive*
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 04:56:26 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 04:56:26 PM
Let's look at some statistics:
States won by Clinton:
BLUE (6): New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, California, Michigan, Massachusetts
RED (5): Tennessee, Nevada, Arkansas, Arizona, Oklahoma
GREY (1): Florida
States won by Obama:
BLUE (4): Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Minnesota
RED (11): Utah, North Dakota, Missouri, Kansas, Idaho, Georgia, Colorado, Alaska, Alabama, South Carolina, Iowa
States yet to have their primary elections:
BLUE (8): Washington, Oregon, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Rhode Island, Maine, Hawaii, D.C.
RED (11): Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, Texas, Kentucky, Indiana, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, Louisiana
GREY (1): Ohio
Okay those stats aren't very conclusive, but there you have them :)
States won by Clinton:
BLUE (6): New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, California, Michigan, Massachusetts
RED (5): Tennessee, Nevada, Arkansas, Arizona, Oklahoma
GREY (1): Florida
States won by Obama:
BLUE (4): Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Minnesota
RED (11): Utah, North Dakota, Missouri, Kansas, Idaho, Georgia, Colorado, Alaska, Alabama, South Carolina, Iowa
States yet to have their primary elections:
BLUE (8): Washington, Oregon, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Rhode Island, Maine, Hawaii, D.C.
RED (11): Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, Texas, Kentucky, Indiana, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, Louisiana
GREY (1): Ohio
Okay those stats aren't very conclusive, but there you have them :)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 05:43:40 PM
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 05:43:40 PM
And:
Numbers of delegated (is that the right word?)
H = 845
O = 765
...there's no doubt about who will win on the other side, but I still think it's very exciting on "the right side"
Numbers of delegated (is that the right word?)
H = 845
O = 765
...there's no doubt about who will win on the other side, but I still think it's very exciting on "the right side"
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 06:35:58 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 06:35:58 PM
Which happens to be the left side :)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 07:32:53 PM
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 07:32:53 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 06:35:58 PM
Which happens to be the left side :)
Yes? I know? ...right as in right/wrong!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 07:39:38 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 07:39:38 PM
Quote from: lised on February 06, 2008, 07:32:53 PMQuote from: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 06:35:58 PM
Which happens to be the left side :)
Yes? I know? ...right as in right/wrong!
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Oh, I hadn't thought of that at all ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 07:45:02 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 07:45:02 PM
Quote from: CTG on January 21, 2007, 09:10:40 PM
Yes, I would feel better in 19th century. Women's task: cook, wash, skid.
Your task: work three times as hard in order to support the woman and your 21 kids (protection not invented)
(hmm, sorry about the 1 year answer delay...)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 08:18:29 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 06, 2008, 08:18:29 PM
Okay if you don't care that your children die, you still have to take care of the woman. Reason: she's not as good to skid if she's malnutritioned.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 08:30:39 PM
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 08:30:39 PM
Quote from: CTG on February 06, 2008, 08:24:09 PM
Then I change her for a better one... ;D
Just like King Shahriar in The Arabian Nights you will begin to run out of virgins one day ;)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on February 06, 2008, 09:33:37 PM
Post by: Chulk on February 06, 2008, 09:33:37 PM
Quote from: lised on February 06, 2008, 08:30:39 PMLOL! That reminded me I have to re-read The Arabian Nights. I read them when I was about 7 or 8, as the book was intended to be read, one story, one night. It took me 1001 nights to finish it :D!Quote from: CTG on February 06, 2008, 08:24:09 PM
Then I change her for a better one... ;D
Just like King Shahriar in The Arabian Nights you will begin to run out of virgins one day ;)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 09:39:38 PM
Post by: lised on February 06, 2008, 09:39:38 PM
Quote from: Chulk on February 06, 2008, 09:33:37 PMQuote from: lised on February 06, 2008, 08:30:39 PMLOL! That reminded me I have to re-read The Arabian Nights. I read them when I was about 7 or 8, as the book was intended to be read, one story, one night. It took me 1001 nights to finish it :D!Quote from: CTG on February 06, 2008, 08:24:09 PM
Then I change her for a better one... ;D
Just like King Shahriar in The Arabian Nights you will begin to run out of virgins one day ;)
They are some very lovely stories <3
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 07, 2008, 03:24:37 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 07, 2008, 03:24:37 PM
I guess 12.6 percent thought of Costa (R) when they haven't voted for Clinton or Obama. Go, niga, go!!!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 07, 2008, 06:27:59 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 07, 2008, 06:27:59 PM
Or maybe Noja (K)?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 11, 2008, 11:19:23 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 11, 2008, 11:19:23 AM
I just wish Obama would start to move in the national polls... He's still lagging 4-5% behind.
Noja (K)? Well, who doesn't know about him? ;)
Noja (K)? Well, who doesn't know about him? ;)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 11, 2008, 06:48:01 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 11, 2008, 06:48:01 PM
Damn, I was considering that possibility, but I thought it wouldn't be a girl because you are chauvinists... Anyway, I remember the name from this forum. It may have been Usrin, it probably was Usrin who mentioned it, but it could have been you or Akoss too.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on February 20, 2008, 07:26:24 PM
Post by: Chulk on February 20, 2008, 07:26:24 PM
Quote from: CTG on February 20, 2008, 05:07:23 PMLOL!!! It seems she'll see her wish granted.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DMs-p5y6cvo&feature=bz302
Obama vs Clinton ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 20, 2008, 08:23:50 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 20, 2008, 08:23:50 PM
Quote from: Chulk on February 20, 2008, 07:26:24 PMFunny. :DQuote from: CTG on February 20, 2008, 05:07:23 PMLOL!!! It seems she'll see her wish granted.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DMs-p5y6cvo&feature=bz302
Obama vs Clinton ;D
Actors playing Hillary and Barrack are Heidi Klum and her husband, Seal.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on February 21, 2008, 12:35:37 AM
Post by: Chulk on February 21, 2008, 12:35:37 AM
Quote from: Krys TOFF on February 20, 2008, 08:23:50 PMSeal as in "Kiss from a rose" (Batman forever OST)?Quote from: Chulk on February 20, 2008, 07:26:24 PMFunny. :DQuote from: CTG on February 20, 2008, 05:07:23 PMLOL!!! It seems she'll see her wish granted.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DMs-p5y6cvo&feature=bz302
Obama vs Clinton ;D
Actors playing Hillary and Barrack are Heidi Klum and her husband, Seal.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 24, 2008, 06:49:35 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 24, 2008, 06:49:35 PM
Bwin.com odds now:
Hillary Clinton 4.00
Other 1.20
Some weeks ago it was:
Hillary Clinton 1.40
Other can't remember
:D
Hillary Clinton 4.00
Other 1.20
Some weeks ago it was:
Hillary Clinton 1.40
Other can't remember
:D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on February 27, 2008, 08:09:01 PM
Post by: zaqrack on February 27, 2008, 08:09:01 PM
This test is quite well-written and well-evaluated, I'm surprised.
ZAQRACK'S SCORE
Your scored -2.5 on Moral Order and 2.5 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
1. System: Socialism
2. Ideology: Social Democratism
3. Party: No match.
4. Presidents: Jimmy Carter
5. 04' Election: David Cobb
6. 08' Election: Barack Obama
Of the 422,517 respondents (2,314 on Facebook):
1. 6% are close to you.
2. 61% are more conservative.
3. 20% are more liberal.
4. 11% are more socialist.
5. 8% are more authoritarian.
ZAQRACK'S SCORE
Your scored -2.5 on Moral Order and 2.5 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
1. System: Socialism
2. Ideology: Social Democratism
3. Party: No match.
4. Presidents: Jimmy Carter
5. 04' Election: David Cobb
6. 08' Election: Barack Obama
Of the 422,517 respondents (2,314 on Facebook):
1. 6% are close to you.
2. 61% are more conservative.
3. 20% are more liberal.
4. 11% are more socialist.
5. 8% are more authoritarian.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on February 27, 2008, 08:18:12 PM
Post by: Chulk on February 27, 2008, 08:18:12 PM
As it says before, this is...
CHULK'S SCORE
Your scored -0.5 on Moral Order and 0.5 on Moral Rules. (Quite a centered guy! ;))
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
System: Socialism
Ideology: Social Democratism
Party: Democratic Party
Presidents: Jimmy Carter
04' Election: John Kerry
08' Election: Barack Obama
Of the 422,520 respondents (2,314 on Facebook):
6% are close to you.
31% are more conservative.
30% are more liberal.
29% are more socialist.
9% are more authoritarian.
The test is quite accurate. I don't entirely agree in only one matter. I think Socialism is a good moral system but I would never support it for a society because I think it's not possible to have a Socialist economic system.
CHULK'S SCORE
Your scored -0.5 on Moral Order and 0.5 on Moral Rules. (Quite a centered guy! ;))
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
System: Socialism
Ideology: Social Democratism
Party: Democratic Party
Presidents: Jimmy Carter
04' Election: John Kerry
08' Election: Barack Obama
Of the 422,520 respondents (2,314 on Facebook):
6% are close to you.
31% are more conservative.
30% are more liberal.
29% are more socialist.
9% are more authoritarian.
The test is quite accurate. I don't entirely agree in only one matter. I think Socialism is a good moral system but I would never support it for a society because I think it's not possible to have a Socialist economic system.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on February 27, 2008, 08:23:18 PM
Post by: zaqrack on February 27, 2008, 08:23:18 PM
Quote from: Chulk on February 27, 2008, 08:18:12 PM
The test is quite accurate. I don't entirely agree in only one matter. I think Socialism is a good moral system but I would never support it for a society because I don't think it's not possible to have a Socialist economic system.
you have a good point there. And it's quite interesting to check the statistics grouped by countries! http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.aspx?menu=Home&action=Distribution&choice=United%20States
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on February 27, 2008, 08:30:03 PM
Post by: Chulk on February 27, 2008, 08:30:03 PM
Quote from: zaqrack on February 27, 2008, 08:23:18 PMConservatism leads in Hungary. Not surprising at all.
[...] it's quite interesting to check the statistics grouped by countries! http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.aspx?menu=Home&action=Distribution&choice=United%20States
Liberalism leads in USA, no surprise either.
Socialism leads confortably in EU, that was a bit surprising.
Argentina is not on the list...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 27, 2008, 09:30:02 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 27, 2008, 09:30:02 PM
My results :
YOUR SCORE
Your scored -5 on Moral Order and 6 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
1. System: Socialism
2. Ideology: International Socialism
3. Party: No match.
4. Presidents: Jimmy Carter
5. 04' Election: David Cobb
6. 08' Election: Dennis Kucinich
Of the 422,559 respondents (2,314 on Facebook):
1. 4% are close to you.
2. 80% are more conservative.
3. 8% are more liberal.
4. 1% are more socialist.
5. 1% are more authoritarian.
I like the "party : no match". Just my feeling. ;D
YOUR SCORE
Your scored -5 on Moral Order and 6 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
1. System: Socialism
2. Ideology: International Socialism
3. Party: No match.
4. Presidents: Jimmy Carter
5. 04' Election: David Cobb
6. 08' Election: Dennis Kucinich
Of the 422,559 respondents (2,314 on Facebook):
1. 4% are close to you.
2. 80% are more conservative.
3. 8% are more liberal.
4. 1% are more socialist.
5. 1% are more authoritarian.
I like the "party : no match". Just my feeling. ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on February 27, 2008, 10:07:29 PM
Post by: Chulk on February 27, 2008, 10:07:29 PM
Quote from: CTG on February 27, 2008, 08:48:19 PMDamn! I didn't see it. A very spread decision here.
There's Argentina too: http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.aspx?menu=Home&action=Distribution&choice=Argentina
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on February 28, 2008, 01:19:09 AM
Post by: Duplode on February 28, 2008, 01:19:09 AM
I like this kind of test...
DUPLODE'S SCORE
Your scored -3 on Moral Order and 3 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
1. System: Socialism
2. Ideology: Social Democratism
3. Party: No match.
4. Presidents: Jimmy Carter
5. 04' Election: David Cobb
6. 08' Election: Barack Obama
Of the 422,633 respondents (2,324 on Facebook):
1. 9% are close to you.
2. 61% are more conservative.
3. 14% are more liberal.
4. 7% are more socialist.
5. 6% are more authoritarian.
Overall, moderate left (similar to Zak, just a bit more edgy... :) ) It has not changed much since I did a similar test a few years ago. The comparison between countries is interesting as well - too bad they made a vertical perspective 3D graph with such dark shades, the columns just don't give a clear notion of their heights...
DUPLODE'S SCORE
Your scored -3 on Moral Order and 3 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
1. System: Socialism
2. Ideology: Social Democratism
3. Party: No match.
4. Presidents: Jimmy Carter
5. 04' Election: David Cobb
6. 08' Election: Barack Obama
Of the 422,633 respondents (2,324 on Facebook):
1. 9% are close to you.
2. 61% are more conservative.
3. 14% are more liberal.
4. 7% are more socialist.
5. 6% are more authoritarian.
Overall, moderate left (similar to Zak, just a bit more edgy... :) ) It has not changed much since I did a similar test a few years ago. The comparison between countries is interesting as well - too bad they made a vertical perspective 3D graph with such dark shades, the columns just don't give a clear notion of their heights...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 28, 2008, 10:32:57 AM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 28, 2008, 10:32:57 AM
Ooh it's very very interesting
AKOSSHUNGARY'S SCORE
Your scored 2.5 on Moral Order and 2.5 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
1. System: Authoritarianism
2. Ideology: Social Republicanism
3. Party: No match.
4. Presidents: Gerald Ford
5. 04' Election: John Kerry
6. 08' Election: Duncan Hunter
Of the 422,855 respondents (2,339 on Facebook):
1. 1% are close to you.
2. 13% are more conservative.
3. 68% are more liberal.
4. 17% are more socialist.
5. 2% are more authoritarian.
AKOSSHUNGARY'S SCORE
Your scored 2.5 on Moral Order and 2.5 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
1. System: Authoritarianism
2. Ideology: Social Republicanism
3. Party: No match.
4. Presidents: Gerald Ford
5. 04' Election: John Kerry
6. 08' Election: Duncan Hunter
Of the 422,855 respondents (2,339 on Facebook):
1. 1% are close to you.
2. 13% are more conservative.
3. 68% are more liberal.
4. 17% are more socialist.
5. 2% are more authoritarian.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 28, 2008, 12:50:57 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 28, 2008, 12:50:57 PM
JACKY'S SCORE
Your scored -3.5 on Moral Order and 4 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
System: Socialism
Ideology: Social Democratism
Party: No match.
Presidents: Jimmy Carter
04' Election: David Cobb
08' Election: Dennis Kucinich
Of the 422,869 respondents (2,341 on Facebook):
4% are close to you.
70% are more conservative.
16% are more liberal.
5% are more socialist.
5% are more authoritarian.
Crap test though, will elaborate later
Your scored -3.5 on Moral Order and 4 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
System: Socialism
Ideology: Social Democratism
Party: No match.
Presidents: Jimmy Carter
04' Election: David Cobb
08' Election: Dennis Kucinich
Of the 422,869 respondents (2,341 on Facebook):
4% are close to you.
70% are more conservative.
16% are more liberal.
5% are more socialist.
5% are more authoritarian.
Crap test though, will elaborate later
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on February 28, 2008, 03:39:35 PM
Post by: Usrin on February 28, 2008, 03:39:35 PM
USRIN'S SCORE
Your scored -4 on Moral Order and 5 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
1. System: Socialism
2. Ideology: Social Democratism, International Socialism
3. Party: No match.
4. Presidents: Jimmy Carter
5. 04' Election: David Cobb
6. 08' Election: Dennis Kucinich
Of the 422,903 respondents (2,341 on Facebook):
1. 4% are close to you.
2. 72% are more conservative.
3. 12% are more liberal.
4. 3% are more socialist.
5. 4% are more authoritarian.
Your scored -4 on Moral Order and 5 on Moral Rules.
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
1. System: Socialism
2. Ideology: Social Democratism, International Socialism
3. Party: No match.
4. Presidents: Jimmy Carter
5. 04' Election: David Cobb
6. 08' Election: Dennis Kucinich
Of the 422,903 respondents (2,341 on Facebook):
1. 4% are close to you.
2. 72% are more conservative.
3. 12% are more liberal.
4. 3% are more socialist.
5. 4% are more authoritarian.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 28, 2008, 04:09:24 PM
Post by: Krys TOFF on February 28, 2008, 04:09:24 PM
Usrin's results and mine are quite close.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on July 24, 2008, 05:24:20 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on July 24, 2008, 05:24:20 PM
Yep, you're too radical ;)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on July 24, 2008, 08:36:44 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on July 24, 2008, 08:36:44 PM
That is of no importance...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on November 05, 2008, 02:02:56 PM
Post by: Chulk on November 05, 2008, 02:02:56 PM
Quote from: CTG on November 05, 2008, 09:45:17 AMDamn! First Hamilton, now Obama... Those niggers are taking over the world! (Of course I'm just kidding)
Forever Barack Obama, the first ever n..... elected to be the president of United States. ;D
New poll up there... :D
Now, speaking seriously, I'm glad to see he won, it means society as a whole is changing its way of thinking and is a bit more open than some years ago. About his period as president, I think he'll try to do things the right way, but many, many, many, many republican are too conservative to help him... 4 years is my prediction.
BTW:
Quote from: Chulk on February 27, 2008, 08:18:12 PM
CHULK'S SCORE
Your scored -0.5 on Moral Order and 0.5 on Moral Rules. (Quite a centered guy! ;))
The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):
System: Socialism
Ideology: Social Democratism
Party: Democratic Party
Presidents: Jimmy Carter
04' Election: John Kerry
08' Election: Barack Obama
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 05, 2008, 06:29:56 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 05, 2008, 06:29:56 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on February 28, 2008, 12:50:57 PM
Crap test though, will elaborate later
But I never did... And now I've forgotten why it's a crap test :) But I'm sure it was.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 05, 2008, 06:31:22 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 05, 2008, 06:31:22 PM
Oh and by the way,
WOOOHOO! !!!!!!
I just got out of bed. I was up all night watching the election with Lise and some others. We watched Obama's speech at 5:30 AM, it was a great moment. USA is back. I'm very relieved for the whole world, even though I don't think Obama can fulfill half of what he has promised.
WOOOHOO! !!!!!!
I just got out of bed. I was up all night watching the election with Lise and some others. We watched Obama's speech at 5:30 AM, it was a great moment. USA is back. I'm very relieved for the whole world, even though I don't think Obama can fulfill half of what he has promised.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on November 06, 2008, 06:32:34 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on November 06, 2008, 06:32:34 PM
FOREVER NIGGERS!!! FOREVER OBAMA!!!
BUT: OBAMA'S WIFE APPEARED IN A PICSACIPÖ! SHE MUST DIE IN AIDS!!!
BUT: OBAMA'S WIFE APPEARED IN A PICSACIPÖ! SHE MUST DIE IN AIDS!!!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 08, 2008, 12:00:32 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 08, 2008, 12:00:32 AM
Baraka wins...... no wait, that's mortal kombat!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on January 04, 2009, 06:48:04 PM
Post by: Chulk on January 04, 2009, 06:48:04 PM
So, baby USA invaded Gaza... They are just as stupid their big brother.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 04, 2009, 07:39:14 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 04, 2009, 07:39:14 PM
No, they are definitely more stupid. The most brutal war regime in the world. Everyone who supports this invasion will have their words smeared across their reputations far beyond the grave.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on June 07, 2009, 11:48:14 PM
Post by: zaqrack on June 07, 2009, 11:48:14 PM
the only thing i care about that there was finally a party on the list which is maybe really worth voting for.
other than that, hurray for Piratpartiet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party), they are in!
other than that, hurray for Piratpartiet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party), they are in!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on June 08, 2009, 11:44:38 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on June 08, 2009, 11:44:38 AM
Ah, yesterday was a very good day for evil in Europe :) We will really have a lot of dark men making corruption scandals and pissing on the poor in Bruxelles for the next 5 years. And I am a bit relieved to see that the Hungarian voters are way more stupid than the Danish ones.
Seriously, what do they expect from these right-wing extremists?
Seriously, what do they expect from these right-wing extremists?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on June 08, 2009, 11:47:01 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on June 08, 2009, 11:47:01 AM
When there is a new wave party, you can't resist voting for it :D I wish we had a new wave party. Henrik Balling from Gangway should head it.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on June 08, 2009, 06:29:40 PM
Post by: zaqrack on June 08, 2009, 06:29:40 PM
Quote from: CTG on June 08, 2009, 12:12:58 PM
almost nothing in the center. That's why I didn't vote.
and that's why another 30% of the country also did not vote :) And I can totally understand them.
Even though the menu is always awful, I always go and vote because I feel it is required from me as a citizen. However, so far I have never voted twice on the same party. Maybe now.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on June 08, 2009, 06:41:53 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on June 08, 2009, 06:41:53 PM
This big strenghtening of the extreme right and the big loss of the (divided) jewish forces whispers to me that there's something really wrong in this country's governing... No matter which party wins, the remnants of the old communists/jewish will govern us, thanks to the happenings around 1990. They will not let the others gain force in the parliament, they realize this with very dirty nation-dividing politics - and the country sinks and sinks in the swamp...
I'm a rightist in mind, but voted against Fidesz in 2002 and 2006 because the reasons mentioned by CTG why they are not really a rightist force, and because of Viktor Orbán. This time I decided not to vote.
I'm a rightist in mind, but voted against Fidesz in 2002 and 2006 because the reasons mentioned by CTG why they are not really a rightist force, and because of Viktor Orbán. This time I decided not to vote.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Mingva on April 10, 2010, 07:57:49 PM
Post by: Mingva on April 10, 2010, 07:57:49 PM
RIP Poland :'(
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on April 11, 2010, 12:00:59 AM
Post by: Duplode on April 11, 2010, 12:00:59 AM
Awful news... being a 3/8 Pole ancestry-wise I feel even more disheartened.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on September 22, 2010, 02:41:09 PM
Post by: Duplode on September 22, 2010, 02:41:09 PM
Argies: What the hell Cristina has smoked lately? or does she really have reasons to believe she can pull off those Chavist tricks against the press in such a ridiculously blunt way?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on December 02, 2011, 03:15:36 AM
Post by: Chulk on December 02, 2011, 03:15:36 AM
Quote from: CTG on December 01, 2011, 08:06:53 AMIf you do, don't even think about coming to Argentina!! I don't know what they sell to the rest of the world, but it's a stallin "democratic" tyranny!
I start to feel it's time to leave this fuckin' country.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on December 02, 2011, 02:16:47 PM
Post by: zaqrack on December 02, 2011, 02:16:47 PM
So is China. But at least they admit it :)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on December 02, 2011, 02:33:36 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on December 02, 2011, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: Chulk on December 02, 2011, 03:15:36 AMQuote from: CTG on December 01, 2011, 08:06:53 AMIf you do, don't even think about coming to Argentina!! I don't know what they sell to the rest of the world, but it's a stallin "democratic" tyranny!
I start to feel it's time to leave this fuckin' country.
Well, the main reason to escape from Hungary is to avoid feeling the same circumstances like it was in Argentina about 10 yrs ago (we are close to that right now). So if one leaves the country, I think Argentina would be among the last places to go to.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on December 02, 2011, 02:44:02 PM
Post by: CTG on December 02, 2011, 02:44:02 PM
Rumours say Bartók Béla Avenue's new name will be (probably) Horthy Miklós Avenue.
The first one was a famous composer of the 20th century. The latter one was the governor of Hungary between WW I and II ("slave" of Hitler).
Already renamed:
Moszkva tér (Moscow Square) ---> Széll Kálmán tér (prime ministeresident of Hungary between 1899-1903); because "Moscow is communist name", LOL. I think it's just a city. We also have Párizsi udvar, Mexikói út, Belgrád rakpart, etc.
Köztársaság tér (Republic Square) ---> II. János Pál pápa tér (John Paul II Square); just to annoy MSZP (left wing party), because formerly their headquoters was there.
Ferenc körút metro station ---> Corvin Quarter (new "city centre" of 8th district); simple business, the constructor of the new buildings/shops payed for the renaming
But we also have brand new names for the government offices (name of tax authorities changed from APEH to NAV, just to make it Fidesz conform with "National" name). What is it good for? Power demonstration?
The first one was a famous composer of the 20th century. The latter one was the governor of Hungary between WW I and II ("slave" of Hitler).
Already renamed:
Moszkva tér (Moscow Square) ---> Széll Kálmán tér (prime ministeresident of Hungary between 1899-1903); because "Moscow is communist name", LOL. I think it's just a city. We also have Párizsi udvar, Mexikói út, Belgrád rakpart, etc.
Köztársaság tér (Republic Square) ---> II. János Pál pápa tér (John Paul II Square); just to annoy MSZP (left wing party), because formerly their headquoters was there.
Ferenc körút metro station ---> Corvin Quarter (new "city centre" of 8th district); simple business, the constructor of the new buildings/shops payed for the renaming
But we also have brand new names for the government offices (name of tax authorities changed from APEH to NAV, just to make it Fidesz conform with "National" name). What is it good for? Power demonstration?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on December 02, 2011, 03:11:56 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on December 02, 2011, 03:11:56 PM
Trying to change the national identity - people's understanding of themselves as Hungarians and what it means to be Hungarian (except the metro station, that's just greed).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on December 03, 2011, 01:55:46 AM
Post by: Duplode on December 03, 2011, 01:55:46 AM
Quote from: Chulk on December 02, 2011, 03:15:36 AMQuote from: CTG on December 01, 2011, 08:06:53 AMIf you do, don't even think about coming to Argentina!! I don't know what they sell to the rest of the world, but it's a stallin "democratic" tyranny!
I start to feel it's time to leave this fuckin' country.
The way things are going, the number of reasonable alternative countries to move to seems to decrease by the day...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on December 03, 2011, 07:10:26 AM
Post by: Chulk on December 03, 2011, 07:10:26 AM
By the way, I've been saving money since Nestor Kirchner was president because I knew this would happen. And I didn't save it as backup for the rough times coming but to pay for a hitman to let us free from these people. So you know, if you happen to know someone able to do it, contact me...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on December 06, 2011, 07:59:27 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on December 06, 2011, 07:59:27 AM
Who is "these people" Chulk? Politicians in general or Kirschner?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on December 06, 2011, 08:14:47 AM
Post by: Chulk on December 06, 2011, 08:14:47 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on December 06, 2011, 07:59:27 AMI was thinking about Kirchner, but other politicians deserve their own share of powder...
Who is "these people" Chulk? Politicians in general or Kirschner?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on January 26, 2012, 04:46:41 PM
Post by: CTG on January 26, 2012, 04:46:41 PM
Maybe you two should continue that here...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on May 18, 2012, 04:43:38 PM
Post by: CTG on May 18, 2012, 04:43:38 PM
I wonder if Töff is satisfied with the results of French elections or not.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 19, 2012, 12:00:57 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 19, 2012, 12:00:57 AM
Quote from: Krys TOFF4/ Segolene Royal is the puppet of Lionel Jospin and Fran?ois Hollande. She's no "powerful female leader". Mich?le Alliot-Marie could be the French Angela Merkel, she has "guts". I don't like women with "guts" anyway, I don't want to see a French Margaret Tatcher. Nicolas Sarkozy is the French G.W. Bush, if he is elected I fear for France and Europe. For me Fran?ois Bayrou is the best choice for future president but he probably won't be elected (I hope I'm wrong)... ::)"
Krys probably supported Bayrou, then, as I probably would have as well. He got maybe 8-10% of the vote. Looking at his comments about Sarkozy, I'm sure Krys is happy that Hollande got elected instead of him. Me too.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on May 19, 2012, 05:53:07 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on May 19, 2012, 05:53:07 AM
The president of Argentina went to Angola, a trip of business. WTF?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 19, 2012, 11:07:46 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 19, 2012, 11:07:46 AM
It's a "neighbour-country", just across the Atlantic from you. I suppose there could be some kind of trade deal.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on May 21, 2012, 10:13:53 PM
Post by: Usrin on May 21, 2012, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on May 19, 2012, 05:53:07 AM
The president of Argentina went to Angola, a trip of business. WTF?
Do you mean that she will be away for two weeks? ;)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on May 22, 2012, 02:09:14 PM
Post by: CTG on May 22, 2012, 02:09:14 PM
If you look around in Europe, the Hungarian moral swamp is far the deepest.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 22, 2012, 05:22:42 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 22, 2012, 05:22:42 PM
If you don't count Belarus, Hungary has the least civilized and most criminal government in Europe right now.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 22, 2012, 05:23:26 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 22, 2012, 05:23:26 PM
Ukraine is also ruled by a bunch of spineless jerks. But Hungary is in the EU.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Overdrijf on June 10, 2012, 10:48:56 PM
Post by: Overdrijf on June 10, 2012, 10:48:56 PM
Quote from: Duplode on December 03, 2011, 01:55:46 AMQuote from: Chulk on December 02, 2011, 03:15:36 AMQuote from: CTG on December 01, 2011, 08:06:53 AMIf you do, don't even think about coming to Argentina!! I don't know what they sell to the rest of the world, but it's a stallin "democratic" tyranny!
I start to feel it's time to leave this fuckin' country.
The way things are going, the number of reasonable alternative countries to move to seems to decrease by the day...
Perhaps we can all migrate to some lowly populated country and vote ourselves into office before anyone realises what happened? I hear Iceland is nice this time of the year...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on June 10, 2012, 11:15:26 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on June 10, 2012, 11:15:26 PM
We already did that! The country is called The Stunts Community, and the capital is http://www.stunts.hu/. Overdrijf 4 president.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on June 11, 2012, 05:34:18 AM
Post by: zaqrack on June 11, 2012, 05:34:18 AM
Quote from: Overdrijf on June 10, 2012, 10:48:56 PM
I hear Iceland is nice this time of the year...
LOL LOL LOL :)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on June 11, 2012, 12:22:07 PM
Post by: JTK on June 11, 2012, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on June 10, 2012, 11:15:26 PM;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
We already did that! The country is called The Stunts Community, and the capital is http://www.stunts.hu/. Overdrijf 4 president.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on June 12, 2012, 04:13:37 PM
Post by: Duplode on June 12, 2012, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: Overdrijf on June 10, 2012, 10:48:56 PM
Perhaps we can all migrate to some lowly populated country and vote ourselves into office before anyone realises what happened? I hear Iceland is nice this time of the year...
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on June 10, 2012, 11:15:26 PM
We already did that! The country is called The Stunts Community, and the capital is http://www.stunts.hu/. Overdrijf 4 president.
:D
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/Duplode/stflag1b.png)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Overdrijf on June 12, 2012, 08:44:12 PM
Post by: Overdrijf on June 12, 2012, 08:44:12 PM
Quote from: Duplode on June 12, 2012, 04:13:37 PM
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/Duplode/stflag1b.png)
That's the Stunts Community flag?
For some reason I'dd expect something with a very triangular three on it. ;)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on June 13, 2012, 03:42:12 AM
Post by: zaqrack on June 13, 2012, 03:42:12 AM
the green is a bit off, but the blue is spot on :)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on June 13, 2012, 04:38:23 AM
Post by: Duplode on June 13, 2012, 04:38:23 AM
Yeah, hilltop green is a compromise - I tried proper grass green but it gives too little contrast with this layout.
Genius! ;D
Quote from: Overdrijf on June 12, 2012, 08:44:12 PM
For some reason I'dd expect something with a very triangular three on it. ;)
Genius! ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on June 22, 2012, 10:05:42 AM
Post by: CTG on June 22, 2012, 10:05:42 AM
Pollsters say that the huge advantage of Fidesz disappeared in Hungary. Too bad, they gave the right to vote for the Hungarians living abroad since their birth (few million people in Romania, Slovakia, Serbia, Ukraine). Generally they are grateful to Fidesz for giving this possibility and since they don't see how crappy the orange party is, 70-80 percent of them would vote for Orbán...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on June 25, 2012, 07:39:38 PM
Post by: Usrin on June 25, 2012, 07:39:38 PM
Quote from: CTG on June 22, 2012, 10:05:42 AM
Pollsters say that the huge advantage of Fidesz disappeared in Hungary. Too bad, they gave the right to vote for the Hungarians living abroad since their birth (few million people in Romania, Slovakia, Serbia, Ukraine). Generally they are grateful to Fidesz for giving this possibility and since they don't see how crappy the orange party is, 70-80 percent of them would vote for Orbán...
I don't think they're really interested in the Hungarian elections. So far there are 250.000 applications for the Hungarian citizenship, further 250.000 is expected until 2014, and I will be surprised if more than 25% of them go voting. OK, those will be all brainwashed Fidesz fans, but don't worry: this is not an abundant species abroad. See the recent election results in Romania: from the 3 Hungarian parties, 2 were Fidesz clones, with Fidesz leaders heavily campaigning for them, and the third one got 80% of the Hungarian votes. It is similar in Slovakia: of the 2 Hungarian parties, the Fidesz clone is much weaker. (Btw, it is not allowed to have a dual Slovak-Hungarian citizenship in the mighty Slovakia, so there's no danger to our elections from that side.)
The bigger problem is that the Hungarian left-wing is inactive and divided... I guess that we will have even more ridiculous liberal movements (prototype: LMP) for 2014, each of them catching a few percent of anti-Orbán votes. So he'll just laugh and make a huge victory with no more than one million votes...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 23, 2012, 06:54:56 PM
Post by: CTG on October 23, 2012, 06:54:56 PM
Obama or Romney - predictions?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2012, 01:17:05 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2012, 01:17:05 AM
It's looking very close :( They just might elect Romney, which is quite unbelievable, when you think about it, because the only reason he has even had a chance to make a serious bid for presidency is his wealth. His 2008 campaign was paid for by himself, and I guess also his 2012 primary campaign.
He's never run a business, only an investment fund, and he's a man who will fight for the 1%. The only ways a president candidate could be worse than Romney would be: A: being even stupider than he is (Rick Perry), B: more religion-crazy than he is (George W., Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee...). The independent who are tired of Obama need to realize that they haven't been offered a proper alternative.
He's never run a business, only an investment fund, and he's a man who will fight for the 1%. The only ways a president candidate could be worse than Romney would be: A: being even stupider than he is (Rick Perry), B: more religion-crazy than he is (George W., Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee...). The independent who are tired of Obama need to realize that they haven't been offered a proper alternative.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on October 24, 2012, 03:17:44 AM
Post by: Duplode on October 24, 2012, 03:17:44 AM
Plutocracy. I'd still bet on Obama, even if the sheer absurdity of a Romney victory won't be a deterrent.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on October 24, 2012, 04:00:23 AM
Post by: Chulk on October 24, 2012, 04:00:23 AM
Quote from: Duplode on October 24, 2012, 03:17:44 AMExactly my thoughts!
Plutocracy. I'd still bet on Obama, even if the sheer absurdity of a Romney victory won't be a deterrent.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on October 24, 2012, 05:37:58 AM
Post by: zaqrack on October 24, 2012, 05:37:58 AM
Quote from: Usrin on June 25, 2012, 07:39:38 PM
The bigger problem is that the Hungarian left-wing is inactive and divided... I guess that we will have even more ridiculous liberal movements (prototype: LMP) for 2014, each of them catching a few percent of anti-Orbán votes. So he'll just laugh and make a huge victory with no more than one million votes...
Now we seem to have the movement called "Together 2014" with the exact aim to unify everyone tired of Orbán. Knowing how hard it is to unify Hungarians, I am not sure they will succeed, but I am sending my best of luck.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 24, 2012, 07:53:16 AM
Post by: CTG on October 24, 2012, 07:53:16 AM
Quote from: zaqrack on October 24, 2012, 05:37:58 AMQuote from: Usrin on June 25, 2012, 07:39:38 PM
The bigger problem is that the Hungarian left-wing is inactive and divided... I guess that we will have even more ridiculous liberal movements (prototype: LMP) for 2014, each of them catching a few percent of anti-Orbán votes. So he'll just laugh and make a huge victory with no more than one million votes...
Now we seem to have the movement called "Together 2014" with the exact aim to unify everyone tired of Orbán. Knowing how hard it is to unify Hungarians, I am not sure they will succeed, but I am sending my best of luck.
"Together 2014" is just another meaningless big word from another liar. Neither Bajnai, nor Gyurcsány is worth for a vote - even if they are (slightly) better than Orbán.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2012, 12:11:03 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2012, 12:11:03 PM
Quote from: CTG on October 24, 2012, 07:53:16 AMQuote from: zaqrack on October 24, 2012, 05:37:58 AMQuote from: Usrin on June 25, 2012, 07:39:38 PM
The bigger problem is that the Hungarian left-wing is inactive and divided... I guess that we will have even more ridiculous liberal movements (prototype: LMP) for 2014, each of them catching a few percent of anti-Orbán votes. So he'll just laugh and make a huge victory with no more than one million votes...
Now we seem to have the movement called "Together 2014" with the exact aim to unify everyone tired of Orbán. Knowing how hard it is to unify Hungarians, I am not sure they will succeed, but I am sending my best of luck.
"Together 2014" is just another meaningless big word from another liar. Neither Bajnai, nor Gyurcsány is worth for a vote - even if they are (slightly) better than Orbán.
Looks like Zak is right ;D
QuoteKnowing how hard it is to unify Hungarians, I am not sure they will succeed
Okay I don't know much about the people in this opposition group. Is Jobbik part of it, by the way? But anyway, it's a general problem that right wing politicians, because they don't care about anything except power and money, are willing to do whatever, support whomever, vote for whatever in order to attain and retain power. They don't give a shit about who is worth a vote. A vote for more power to themselves is a good vote. That's why they are strong and you are weak.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 24, 2012, 12:16:56 PM
Post by: CTG on October 24, 2012, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2012, 12:11:03 PM
Okay I don't know much about the people in this opposition group. Is Jobbik part of it, by the way?
Jobbik is namely in opposition, but it's an extreme right wing party, even the leaders "admit" their antisemite and racist views (they don't say: "I"m racist", but every second sentence from them is against gipsies, jews, foreigners). That means no alliance for "Together 2014".
Public polls say Jobbik is quite highly supported (15-20%), especially among the young people. Fidesz is somewhere around 30-35%, MSZP ~20-25%.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on October 24, 2012, 04:26:46 PM
Post by: Chulk on October 24, 2012, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: CTG on October 24, 2012, 12:16:56 PMI mean no harm to you, Hungarian friends, but that speaks very badly of the people in your country
Public polls say Jobbik is quite highly supported (15-20%), especially among the young people.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 24, 2012, 05:30:25 PM
Post by: CTG on October 24, 2012, 05:30:25 PM
Quote from: Chulk on October 24, 2012, 04:26:46 PMQuote from: CTG on October 24, 2012, 12:16:56 PMI mean no harm to you, Hungarian friends, but that speaks very badly of the people in your country
Public polls say Jobbik is quite highly supported (15-20%), especially among the young people.
Since I hate my own country, it doesn't really hurt me.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2012, 07:03:04 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2012, 07:03:04 PM
Nearly all European countries have a racist party with support from 15-20% of the population
Front National (France)
Freedom Party (Netherlands)
Sverigedemokraterne (Sweden)
Dansk Folkeparti (Denmark)
Fremskrittspartiet (Norway)
FPÖ and Jörg Haider List (Austria)
Jobbik (Hungary)
Golden Dawn (Greece - somewhat less support because they are more extreme)
...and probably most other countries also.
Except from Golden Dawn, Jobbik is the most extremist of these parties, and this is what really says something about Hungary.
If a country has no significant racist party, it's likely because of the parliamentary system. In Great Britain, there are two racist parties (BNP, UKIP), but they have no chance of getting seats in the parliament because of the system.
In Germany, the neo-nazi party is outlawed.
Front National (France)
Freedom Party (Netherlands)
Sverigedemokraterne (Sweden)
Dansk Folkeparti (Denmark)
Fremskrittspartiet (Norway)
FPÖ and Jörg Haider List (Austria)
Jobbik (Hungary)
Golden Dawn (Greece - somewhat less support because they are more extreme)
...and probably most other countries also.
Except from Golden Dawn, Jobbik is the most extremist of these parties, and this is what really says something about Hungary.
If a country has no significant racist party, it's likely because of the parliamentary system. In Great Britain, there are two racist parties (BNP, UKIP), but they have no chance of getting seats in the parliament because of the system.
In Germany, the neo-nazi party is outlawed.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 24, 2012, 10:28:35 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 24, 2012, 10:28:35 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2012, 07:03:04 PM
Hobbit (Hungary)
:o
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 24, 2012, 10:36:57 PM
Post by: CTG on October 24, 2012, 10:36:57 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on October 24, 2012, 10:28:35 PMQuote from: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2012, 07:03:04 PM
Hobbit (Hungary)
:o
Muhaha.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on October 28, 2012, 10:53:30 PM
Post by: Duplode on October 28, 2012, 10:53:30 PM
In other news, today we had runoff elections for mayors in Brazil, and the results are just in. Here in São Paulo, Fernando Haddad of PT has won against evergreen and perennial ( ::)) mayor/governor/presidential hopeful/whatever José Serra from PSDB. Though there is no need for fireworks, that is a rather good thing, if only to curb the arrogance of PSDB and their allies (they held the city government for eight years, and are set to complete twenty at state level). Furthermore, the current administration has an alarming inclination to sell public space to the highest bidder.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 29, 2012, 09:31:24 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 29, 2012, 09:31:24 AM
Quote from: Duplode on October 28, 2012, 10:53:30 PM
In other news, today we had runoff elections for mayors in Brazil, and the results are just in. Here in São Paulo, Fernando Haddad of PT has won against evergreen and perennial ( ::)) mayor/governor/presidential hopeful/whatever José Serra from PSDB. Though there is no need for fireworks, that is a rather good thing, if only to curb the arrogance of PSDB and their allies (they held the city government for eight years, and are set to complete twenty at state level). Furthermore, the current administration has an alarming inclination to sell public space to the highest bidder.
Seriously? Aren't they supposed to be leftists?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on October 29, 2012, 02:42:57 PM
Post by: Duplode on October 29, 2012, 02:42:57 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on October 29, 2012, 09:31:24 AM
Seriously? Aren't they supposed to be leftists?
Supposed to, indeed ("Social Democracia", heh) - but as PT moved from left to centre-left over the last ten years they mirrored it by shifting rightwards.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on October 29, 2012, 03:02:55 PM
Post by: Chulk on October 29, 2012, 03:02:55 PM
Quote from: Duplode on October 29, 2012, 02:42:57 PMI have a theory about politic parties here in Argentina. Every party is a lefty until they win an election, then they become a right wing party immediately. Many of them still pretend they are left wing and give one or two thing the "help" the poor (actually, it's not a real help but more a way to keep them hold and force them to keep voting for them) but they really make decisions only based on whatever the guys providing the money needsQuote from: BonzaiJoe on October 29, 2012, 09:31:24 AM
Seriously? Aren't they supposed to be leftists?
Supposed to, indeed ("Social Democracia", heh) - but as PT moved from left to centre-left over the last ten years they mirrored it by shifting rightwards.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 31, 2012, 08:27:39 AM
Post by: CTG on October 31, 2012, 08:27:39 AM
Quote from: CTG on October 24, 2012, 07:53:16 AM
"Together 2014" is just another meaningless big word from another liar. Neither Bajnai, nor Gyurcsány is worth for a vote - even if they are (slightly) better than Orbán.
New law from Fidesz: associations can't participate in the next elections, only parties. Quite a fast reaction on "Together 2014", comprising several smaller civil groups. If you have >66.7% in the parliament, you can change everything without any resistence. And they have...
When Gyurcsány (former prime minister) founded a new party, called Democratic Coalition with 10 active MPs (leaving MSZP), Fidesz suddenly raised the minimal limit of founding a single independent parliamentary group (from 10 to 12). Democracy, huh?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 31, 2012, 02:59:46 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 31, 2012, 02:59:46 PM
I hope Obama wins, he seems moderated in front of any republican monster.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 04, 2012, 02:56:29 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 04, 2012, 02:56:29 AM
I'm very happy guys, we (argentinians) have very nice present compared with the 90's. People, young people doing politics a lot of people in a much better economical situation than in those times. There is a new wave since 2003 and the people who left the country because unemployment and disenchantment with politics, politicians (most of them went to Spain, USA, etc.) they are comming back.
Edit:
I like this government but, there is a problem. They have not opposition and that's not healthy. They didn't be killed of course, they (opposition) represents the past and the monopoly. So nobody want them. But, again, a real opposition is ALWAYS healthy.
Edit:
I like this government but, there is a problem. They have not opposition and that's not healthy. They didn't be killed of course, they (opposition) represents the past and the monopoly. So nobody want them. But, again, a real opposition is ALWAYS healthy.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 07, 2012, 04:16:19 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 07, 2012, 04:16:19 PM
Obama won again and Romney went to the sewers with the Teenage Ninja Turtles, where he belongs.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 08, 2012, 01:49:44 PM
Post by: CTG on November 08, 2012, 01:49:44 PM
We payed a lot more attention on the USA elections four years ago. Now it seems everybody is a bit tired of politics.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on November 08, 2012, 03:36:55 PM
Post by: Chulk on November 08, 2012, 03:36:55 PM
Quick trivia guys, just for some research I'm doing:
How old do you have to be in your country to legally...
- Be able to travel abroad without parents permit (if there is a different age for EU and the rest of the world, please say so)
- Buy alcohol
- Get married
- Go to jail for murdering somebody
- Have a driving license
- Have a job
- Sign a legal contract
- Vote
How old do you have to be in your country to legally...
- Be able to travel abroad without parents permit (if there is a different age for EU and the rest of the world, please say so)
- Buy alcohol
- Get married
- Go to jail for murdering somebody
- Have a driving license
- Have a job
- Sign a legal contract
- Vote
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on November 08, 2012, 03:56:29 PM
Post by: Usrin on November 08, 2012, 03:56:29 PM
How old do you have to be in Hungary to legally:
- travel abroad without parents permit: no idea... but no documents are checked if somebody travels within the Schengen area (most of the EU countries+CH+NO+IS)
- Buy alcohol: 18
- Get married: 16 (with parents permit), 18 (otherwise)
- Go to jail for murdering somebody: 14 (but there are separate jails for criminals under 18)
- Have a driving license: 17 (for cars)
- Have a job: 16 (full-time), 15 (for the school holidays)
- Sign a legal contract: 14 or 18, depending on the type of the contract
- Vote: 18
- travel abroad without parents permit: no idea... but no documents are checked if somebody travels within the Schengen area (most of the EU countries+CH+NO+IS)
- Buy alcohol: 18
- Get married: 16 (with parents permit), 18 (otherwise)
- Go to jail for murdering somebody: 14 (but there are separate jails for criminals under 18)
- Have a driving license: 17 (for cars)
- Have a job: 16 (full-time), 15 (for the school holidays)
- Sign a legal contract: 14 or 18, depending on the type of the contract
- Vote: 18
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 08, 2012, 04:34:31 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 08, 2012, 04:34:31 PM
interesting
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 08, 2012, 04:34:45 PM
Post by: CTG on November 08, 2012, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: Usrin on November 08, 2012, 03:56:29 PM
- Buy alcohol: 18
Guess how seriously they take it...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on November 08, 2012, 04:49:26 PM
Post by: Chulk on November 08, 2012, 04:49:26 PM
Quote from: Usrin on November 08, 2012, 03:56:29 PMWhat kind of legal contracts would a 14 year old sign, for example? Considering he can't have a job... can he buy a house?
How old do you have to be in Hungary to legally:
- travel abroad without parents permit: no idea... but no documents are checked if somebody travels within the Schengen area (most of the EU countries+CH+NO+IS)
- Buy alcohol: 18
- Get married: 16 (with parents permit), 18 (otherwise)
- Go to jail for murdering somebody: 14 (but there are separate jails for criminals under 18)
- Have a driving license: 17 (for cars)
- Have a job: 16 (full-time), 15 (for the school holidays)
- Sign a legal contract: 14 or 18, depending on the type of the contract
- Vote: 18
Quote from: CTG on November 08, 2012, 04:34:45 PMI guess that happens everywhere... that's why I said "legally".Quote from: Usrin on November 08, 2012, 03:56:29 PM
- Buy alcohol: 18
Guess how seriously they take it...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 08, 2012, 06:02:34 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 08, 2012, 06:02:34 PM
Quote from: Chulk on November 08, 2012, 03:36:55 PM
Quick trivia guys, just for some research I'm doing:
How old do you have to be in your country to legally...
- Be able to travel abroad without parents permit (if there is a different age for EU and the rest of the world, please say so)
- Buy alcohol
- Get married
- Go to jail for murdering somebody
- Have a driving license
- Have a job
- Sign a legal contract
- Vote
Travel: 18
Alcohol: 18 (16 with some restrictions)
Married: 18
Jail: 15
Driving: 18
Job: 18 (13/16 with special rules)
Contract: 18
Vote: 18
Bonus:
Sex: 15
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on November 08, 2012, 06:17:31 PM
Post by: Chulk on November 08, 2012, 06:17:31 PM
Denmark is pretty consistent. You're 17, you are not allowed to do almost anything. Turn 18, you're an adult now, free will!!
I like that!
I like that!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 08, 2012, 06:18:49 PM
Post by: CTG on November 08, 2012, 06:18:49 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on November 08, 2012, 06:02:34 PM
Bonus:
Sex: 15
So what happens, if a 14 years old guy skids a classmate chick?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 08, 2012, 09:17:48 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 08, 2012, 09:17:48 PM
Both will be happy I guess...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 08, 2012, 09:20:19 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 08, 2012, 09:20:19 PM
I had a girlfriend in the high school and I was 1 year older, so when she has 16 I has 17. Fifth of November and PUM! I can't skid her anymore? Because I am an adult and she's not?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 08, 2012, 09:32:47 PM
Post by: CTG on November 08, 2012, 09:32:47 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on November 08, 2012, 09:17:48 PM
Both will be happy I guess...
Answer of the day! ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on November 09, 2012, 01:43:39 AM
Post by: Duplode on November 09, 2012, 01:43:39 AM
Quote from: Chulk on November 08, 2012, 03:36:55 PM
Quick trivia guys, just for some research I'm doing:
How old do you have to be in your country to legally...
- Be able to travel abroad without parents permit (if there is a different age for EU and the rest of the world, please say so)
- Buy alcohol
- Get married
- Go to jail for murdering somebody
- Have a driving license
- Have a job
- Sign a legal contract
- Vote
Travel: 18
Alcohol: 18
Married: 18 (16 with parental consent)
Jail: 18 (not counting the correctional system for minors)
Job: 16 (14 under special rules)
Contract: 18 (16 with parental subscription)
Vote: 16
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on November 09, 2012, 09:22:57 AM
Post by: JTK on November 09, 2012, 09:22:57 AM
Quote from: Chulk on November 08, 2012, 03:36:55 PM
Quick trivia guys, just for some research I'm doing:
How old do you have to be in your country to legally...
- Be able to travel abroad without parents permit (if there is a different age for EU and the rest of the world, please say so)
- Buy alcohol
- Get married
- Go to jail for murdering somebody
- Have a driving license
- Have a job
- Sign a legal contract
- Vote
- Free travel: 18
- Beer, wine: 16. Harder stuff: 18
- Marriage: 16
- Jail: 14
- Drivving license: 17 (with parents on the co-driver's seat), 18 (without co-driver)
- Work: 15
- Legal contract: 18
- Vote: 16 (local, communal, federal level), 18 (State and European level)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 09, 2012, 12:04:57 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 09, 2012, 12:04:57 PM
How is voting rights for 16-18 year olds working out? Are people happy about that? Are you?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 09, 2012, 12:11:25 PM
Post by: CTG on November 09, 2012, 12:11:25 PM
Voting rights should be also limited by education level. I don't think somebody with 6 finished primary school classes and IQ 70 should be a voter (but they are - and check who is the current leader of Hungary).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on November 09, 2012, 06:03:10 PM
Post by: Chulk on November 09, 2012, 06:03:10 PM
I find it weird being responsible enough to decide a country's destiny (voting) or having a job and not being responsible enough to buy alcohol or drive...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on November 10, 2012, 03:56:04 AM
Post by: Duplode on November 10, 2012, 03:56:04 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on November 09, 2012, 12:04:57 PM
How is voting rights for 16-18 year olds working out? Are people happy about that? Are you?
We do not see it as a problem here; in fact, I can't recall ever having read anyone seriously criticizing the limit. Maybe it has to do with the historical context, as lowering the limit to 16 y.o. was one of the "optimistic" measures incorporated in the 1988 constitution which sealed the re-democratization process in Brazil. In any case, there is one extra caveat: voting here is obligatory, but only for people between 18 and 65 years old (so it is optional for the high schoolers).
Quote from: Chulk on November 09, 2012, 06:03:10 PM
I find it weird being responsible enough to decide a country's destiny (voting) or having a job and not being responsible enough to buy alcohol or drive...
It is a little weird, for sure; but maybe not so much if you compare the gains and, specially, risks involved (when driving the country you share the driver's seat with millions of others; while a young lad who drives holds in his hands the responsibility of, e. g., not crashing into a bus stop packed with commuters).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on November 10, 2012, 05:18:12 AM
Post by: Chulk on November 10, 2012, 05:18:12 AM
Quote from: Duplode on November 10, 2012, 03:56:04 AMOn the other hand, driving needs a lot qualifications and knowledge than voting does. I don't know what's the case there, but here, most 16-18 y.o. are really immature and haven't got the simplest idea of politics or even a minimal knowledge about constitutional law...
It is a little weird, for sure; but maybe not so much if you compare the gains and, specially, risks involved
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on November 12, 2012, 09:06:31 AM
Post by: JTK on November 12, 2012, 09:06:31 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on November 09, 2012, 12:04:57 PMI would have loved to have the right to vote at the age of 16. And it really is o.k for me for some reasons:
How is voting rights for 16-18 year olds working out? Are people happy about that? Are you?
- Elder people numbers are growing more and more so there's an overweight of the elder interests
- If you talk about politics with 16 years old you might have the experience, that they really think of what they can do with their voice and that they are concious of the meaning of a voice
- Why not representing the younger's world in politics? In Germany there are even thoughts of giving parents an extra vote for each child so that the children's interests may be represented.
- The earlier you may vote the earlier you might start understanding politics and might also start being involved.
And as long as it is on the lower regional level it is really o.k. by me.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on November 12, 2012, 09:12:01 AM
Post by: JTK on November 12, 2012, 09:12:01 AM
I just read some articles about voting at the age of 16, very interesting arguments, pros and cons. Not in every federal state in Germany you may vote when you're 16, here in Schleswig-Holstein you may. I thought this article is quite interesting (German, of course, sorry...): http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/bremen-waehlen-mit-ein-erwachsenenprojekt-1.1098755
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 12, 2012, 12:03:23 PM
Post by: CTG on November 12, 2012, 12:03:23 PM
As far as I see, Hungarian teenagers know almost nothing about politics and they would vote only for "fashionable" parties. Since MSZP is rather supported by elder people and physical workers, they think it sucks, while Fidesz is "cool", because they are so popular (dunno why, Orbán is an annoying arrogant dwarf). Or shall I mention that Jobbik has an unapproachable support among the teenagers compared to any other age-groups?
Most of young people are simply retarded in Hungary. Or as I call them: the post-Chernobyl generation.
Most of young people are simply retarded in Hungary. Or as I call them: the post-Chernobyl generation.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 12, 2012, 12:26:11 PM
Post by: CTG on November 12, 2012, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on November 08, 2012, 06:02:34 PM
Bonus:
Sex: 15
It's more complicated here.
Everything is allowed over 14.
If the older one is over 18:
- younger under 12: coitus is "sexual abduction", other perversion is "indecent behaviour", both are punished
- younger between 12 and 14: all forms of sex mean "pervert seduction", punished
If the older one is between 14 and 18:
- younger under 12: the same as in the case over 18
- younger between 12 and 14: coitus is "pervert seduction" (punished), other sexual acts are unpunished
If both of them are under 12, nothing happens.
Btw the "age of sexual consent" used to be different for hetero and homo relations before 2002 (14 and 18; now both are 14).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on November 15, 2012, 04:25:51 PM
Post by: zaqrack on November 15, 2012, 04:25:51 PM
Quote from: CTG on November 09, 2012, 12:11:25 PM
Voting rights should be also limited by education level. I don't think somebody with 6 finished primary school classes and IQ 70 should be a voter (but they are - and check who is the current leader of Hungary).
I would rather support that taxpayer's votes count double or that parents can vote in the name of their children.
Obligatory vote between 18-65 as quoted by Duplode is also interesting to counter-measure the overweight of pensioners (e.g. in Hungary all parties are basically pensioner parties, as they form the largest voter's block so nobody wants to upset them)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on November 15, 2012, 04:46:14 PM
Post by: Usrin on November 15, 2012, 04:46:14 PM
Quote from: zaqrack on November 15, 2012, 04:25:51 PMQuote from: CTG on November 09, 2012, 12:11:25 PM
Voting rights should be also limited by education level. I don't think somebody with 6 finished primary school classes and IQ 70 should be a voter (but they are - and check who is the current leader of Hungary).
I woudl rather support that taxpayer's votes count double...
That can't be realized. If there is no minimum tax for the right of the double vote, suddenly all pensioners will earn 1000 HUF/year, and pay 200 HUF tax. But applying a lower limit would be unfair aganist some poor, but working people. And I hope that you count public servants as taxpayers, even if their tax is only taken from one pocket of the state to the other. (Talking about teachers, doctors, etc. as parasites of the society is common demagogy in Hungary...)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 15, 2012, 05:18:02 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 15, 2012, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: Usrin on November 15, 2012, 04:46:14 PMQuote from: zaqrack on November 15, 2012, 04:25:51 PMQuote from: CTG on November 09, 2012, 12:11:25 PM
Voting rights should be also limited by education level. I don't think somebody with 6 finished primary school classes and IQ 70 should be a voter (but they are - and check who is the current leader of Hungary).
I woudl rather support that taxpayer's votes count double...
That can't be realized. If there is no minimum tax for the right of the double vote, suddenly all pensioners will earn 1000 HUF/year, and pay 200 HUF tax. But applying a lower limit would be unfair aganist some poor, but working people. And I hope that you count public servants as taxpayers, even if their tax is only taken from one pocket of the state to the other. (Talking about teachers, doctors, etc. as parasites of the society is common demagogy in Hungary...)
Agreed. Individual citizen rights and state policy-making go far beyond economical concerns. Also, the legislative assemblies decide on many matters other than how to spend taxpayer money.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on January 09, 2013, 11:04:37 AM
Post by: CTG on January 09, 2013, 11:04:37 AM
Viktor Orbán - even as a prime minister - prefers to spend his time in more important places than the parliament. Now he posed with Guardiola after the Golden Ball ceremony. I'm "happy" to see he has time, energy and money to visit all the important international football events. Especially on a workday.
(http://static3.origos.hu/i/1301/20130109-orban-viktor-es-josep-guardiola3.jpg)
(http://static3.origos.hu/i/1301/20130109-orban-viktor-es-josep-guardiola3.jpg)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on January 10, 2013, 06:26:24 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on January 10, 2013, 06:26:24 PM
Go Chavez!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 10, 2013, 09:09:30 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 10, 2013, 09:09:30 PM
Really? I don't know much about Venezuelan affairs, but he seems like a total demagogue.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on January 10, 2013, 10:34:52 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on January 10, 2013, 10:34:52 PM
Yes, you don't know. The american press makes him a devil and a stupid latin pharaoh.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 11, 2013, 01:18:03 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 11, 2013, 01:18:03 AM
I know that the American perspective on Chavez is manipulative, and probably most European mainstream news also, but he still seems like someone who is mainly good with words and lofty promises, a bit like Obama.
But I'd like to hear a South American (although not Venezuelan) perspective.
But I'd like to hear a South American (although not Venezuelan) perspective.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on January 11, 2013, 02:21:57 AM
Post by: Chulk on January 11, 2013, 02:21:57 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on January 10, 2013, 09:09:30 PMI agree... and Alan and I also disagree about our own government (which is mainly the same as Chavez)
Really? I don't know much about Venezuelan affairs, but he seems like a total demagogue.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on January 11, 2013, 05:39:03 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on January 11, 2013, 05:39:03 AM
Hmm. let's see in my simple english: Chavez is a militar. Cristina Fernandez is a Lawyer. Chavez tryed a a strike to the government and failed he stayed at jail some time before his first cadidature for president. Cristina Fernandez never was in jail. Chavez says his government does the Bolivariana Revolution, Cristina says her government is transient. Chavez is socialist, Cristina Fernandez is "de la derecha moderada" I don't know how to say is in english. etc etc etc.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on January 11, 2013, 08:01:23 AM
Post by: Chulk on January 11, 2013, 08:01:23 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on January 11, 2013, 05:39:03 AMYou can't define a government just for the words they use to describe themselves (socialist, middle right wing and such) but for what they do. And they do pretty much the same. Give people social security and money saying they want to help the poor, and then using this people to go to their stupid shows (because those are shows, nothing more) and force them to support their lies or lose this monetary help the government is giving them. Not to mention how every actual stat they give is completely fake... prices inflation being the most obvious, but not the only one
Hmm. let's see in my simple english: Chavez is a militar. Cristina Fernandez is a Lawyer. Chavez tryed a a strike to the government and failed he stayed at jail some time before his first cadidature for president. Cristina Fernandez never was in jail. Chavez says his government does the Bolivariana Revolution, Cristina says her government is transient. Chavez is socialist, Cristina Fernandez is "de la derecha moderada" I don't know how to say is in english. etc etc etc.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on January 28, 2013, 09:34:51 AM
Post by: CTG on January 28, 2013, 09:34:51 AM
Storm in the bedpan: LMP is splitted in two separate parties.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 30, 2013, 06:34:49 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 30, 2013, 06:34:49 PM
Wasn't that the cool party? :(
There was just a feature on a (serious) Danish debate programme about the rise of racism in Hungary. Founding member of the ruling party referring to parts of the population as "animals". Jobbik supporters marching in uniforms. Constitution changed to emphasize the difference between "ethnic Hungarians" and others. Hungarian ice age. Scary stuff.
There was just a feature on a (serious) Danish debate programme about the rise of racism in Hungary. Founding member of the ruling party referring to parts of the population as "animals". Jobbik supporters marching in uniforms. Constitution changed to emphasize the difference between "ethnic Hungarians" and others. Hungarian ice age. Scary stuff.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on January 31, 2013, 12:31:56 AM
Post by: Usrin on January 31, 2013, 12:31:56 AM
Quote from: Bonzai Joe
Wasn't that the cool party?
Perhaps they seemed to be cool for some Western journalists... LMP was nothing but a strange mixture of obscure ideologies. Some of them wanted to be the Hungarian branch of Greenpeace (stop killing the whales, no nuclear energy, that's all we think about the world). Some were pure followers of Chavez, celebrating when he was re-elected. Some tried to renew the extreme liberalism of the old SZDSZ (the state shouldn't regulate anything and shouldn't spend on stupid things like healthcare, education or science). Not surprising that they couldn't stay in the same party... Moreover, they were completely unable to find a voice which people could understand. They were popular only amongst the children of wealthy families in elite quarters of Budapest (ca. 2% of the population). In 2010, an additional 5% voted on them because they were fed up with politicians, and wanted nothing but a new and 'innocent' party. But they are not new anymore, and everybody can see that they never had the competence for governing.
Quote
Founding member of the ruling party referring to parts of the population as "animals".
One part of the population, namely the majority of Gypsies. Sadly, what this guy (otherwise a stupid and aggressive Orbán fan, trying to overcompensate his activity as a Communist in the 80s and a liberal in the 90s) wrote in his article was true. It is true that law means nothing for many Gipsy families (1 family can easily mean 100-200 people!). They terrorise their neighborhood, and don't hesitate to kill anybody not doing exactly what they want. The case after which this article was written: a guy was killed in a pub, because he was in the loo when one of these 'local strong guys' wanted to pee. And it is only one of these cases. You can tell that it's racism to connect crime to an ethnic group. But how is it possible that reading about such a crime, we can be 99% sure that it was committed by a Gypsy? (Press never writes about the ethnicity of criminals, but it turns out later when their family members are interviewed in TV, or their name becomes public after the trial).
I DON'T believe that crime is in the genes of any ethnic group. The problem with the Gypsies is that their culture didn't change too much in the last 500 years, so it's fully incompatible with today's society. Learning and having a good job is not a value for them, and the few jobs which they had in their history (spoon maker, horse trader, Gypsy musician) are not needed in the 21th century. So crime is their only choice. The only way to help them would be founding good schools for their children (and force them to go there) and giving jobs to the adults immediately (even if it's not 'economical', and even if they don't want to work).
Quote
Jobbik supporters marching in uniforms.
Wrong answer to the above problem, which mainstream politicians rather try to deny.
Quote
Constitution changed to emphasize the difference between "ethnic Hungarians" and others.
The new constitution is bullshit. It's nothing but a tool for giving full powers to Fidesz against the opposition and giving full rights for their oligarchs to keep their hands on Hungary. But I would be really surprised if it contained any differentiation against "non-ethnic Hungarians". When it's not only a newspaper article from a noname member of the party, Fidesz is really aware (sometimes too much aware) of political correctness. (Anti-semitism in Fidesz can be ruled out, they have Jewish members, some in quite high positions.)
half-OFF:
By the way, don't forget the French constitution (and the Romanian, for which it was an example). They simply deny the existence of national minorities. Why there are no TV debates about those countries?
The real problem is that Fidesz leads the country on a really wrong way. Neither people or companies can make their plans, as rules are always changed to favour the oligarchs. Therefore economy is in ruins. The leaders are stupid, unable to organize the most simple things, oligarchs are stealing everything. Public services are also in ruins. And where these problems appear, extremism starts to rise. Anywhere in the world.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 31, 2013, 01:07:31 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on January 31, 2013, 01:07:31 AM
Thanks, that was interesting to read. I might reply when I have the time.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 04, 2013, 09:14:45 AM
Post by: CTG on February 04, 2013, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on January 31, 2013, 01:07:31 AM
I might reply when I have the time.
It will be fun to see the opinion of a liberal person who never met a retarded but evil gipsy criminal (90% of them)...
Btw the problem is that gipsy moral (so called "raj" behaviour, that can be explained as "I'm the cooler and stronger guy, admire me, do what I say or I'll execute you and your family") is infecting the dumber half of Hungarian youth. Like my former neighbour. I hope he'll die in a car accident together with his pregnant whore.
Yes, I still can't let this daemon go... ::)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 05, 2013, 11:48:08 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 05, 2013, 11:48:08 PM
Hugo Chavez died today.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2013, 08:35:54 AM
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2013, 08:35:54 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on March 05, 2013, 11:48:08 PM
Hugo Chavez died today.
So what? (Does it have a real effect on world politics?)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on March 06, 2013, 02:58:19 PM
Post by: Chulk on March 06, 2013, 02:58:19 PM
Quote from: CTG on March 06, 2013, 08:35:54 AMIt doesQuote from: alanrotoi on March 05, 2013, 11:48:08 PM
Hugo Chavez died today.
So what? (Does it have a real effect on world politics?)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/576474_494749673893744_874977175_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2013, 03:27:35 PM
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2013, 03:27:35 PM
Quote from: Chulk on March 06, 2013, 02:58:19 PMQuote from: CTG on March 06, 2013, 08:35:54 AMIt doesQuote from: alanrotoi on March 05, 2013, 11:48:08 PM
Hugo Chavez died today.
So what? (Does it have a real effect on world politics?)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/576474_494749673893744_874977175_n.jpg)
It's rather business, not politics.
(http://tomheller.de/theholycymbal/pics/oil.jpg)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 06, 2013, 05:19:06 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 06, 2013, 05:19:06 PM
Please read my ignorant friend...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on March 06, 2013, 07:08:38 PM
Post by: Chulk on March 06, 2013, 07:08:38 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on March 06, 2013, 05:19:06 PMWas that meant for me or CTG?
Please read my ignorant friend...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 06, 2013, 09:00:53 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 06, 2013, 09:00:53 PM
CTG
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2013, 09:45:39 PM
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2013, 09:45:39 PM
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 06, 2013, 10:10:19 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 06, 2013, 10:10:19 PM
Association game is another topic :P
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2013, 10:48:48 PM
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2013, 10:48:48 PM
And the princess is in another castle...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 06, 2013, 11:00:25 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 06, 2013, 11:00:25 PM
After 12 levels and killing Haffar I must go to another castle? Damn!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on March 07, 2013, 02:23:02 AM
Post by: Chulk on March 07, 2013, 02:23:02 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on March 06, 2013, 11:00:25 PMDamn! I thought Agahnim had her...
After 12 levels and killing Haffar I must go to another castle? Damn!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:29:31 AM
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:29:31 AM
Not really politics, but I hope to see a white pope again. ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on March 13, 2013, 10:00:52 AM
Post by: Usrin on March 13, 2013, 10:00:52 AM
Quote from: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:29:31 AM
Not really politics, but I hope to see a white pope again. ;D
Otherwise we can open a topic about the first ever nigger pope. ;)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 10:28:39 AM
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: Usrin on March 13, 2013, 10:00:52 AMQuote from: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:29:31 AM
Not really politics, but I hope to see a white pope again. ;D
Otherwise we can open a topic about the first ever nigger pope. ;)
You said the N word. You are "niggeres"!!! ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 13, 2013, 10:32:02 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 13, 2013, 10:32:02 AM
Quote from: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:29:31 AM
Not really politics, but I hope to see a white pope again. ;D
Why?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 10:35:26 AM
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 10:35:26 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on March 13, 2013, 10:32:02 AMQuote from: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:29:31 AM
Not really politics, but I hope to see a white pope again. ;D
Why?
Lewis Hamilton, Barack Obama... ;D
Btw I don't really care about this election bullshit. Catholic religion is weaker than ever...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 13, 2013, 04:51:23 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 13, 2013, 04:51:23 PM
It's funny the religion here. If you say "catholisism is a shit!" you are a free guy with an opinion, if you say "judaism is a shit!" you are a nazi anti-Semite.
I don't like any religion, but when they come very susceptible I really don't like them.
I don't like any religion, but when they come very susceptible I really don't like them.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 07:29:30 PM
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 07:29:30 PM
White smoke... hmmm... hmmm... I guess the Italian won.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:17:33 PM
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:17:33 PM
New pope: Rotoi the First.
At least not a 'N'... :D
At least not a 'N'... :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:23:10 PM
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:23:10 PM
Quote from: CTG on March 13, 2013, 08:17:33 PM
New pope
Actually he looks like AbuRaf. :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on March 13, 2013, 09:24:27 PM
Post by: Usrin on March 13, 2013, 09:24:27 PM
Quote from: CTG on March 13, 2013, 10:35:26 AM
Btw I don't really care about this election bullshit. Catholic religion is weaker than ever...
It became a circus with no significance for real politics - like the life of the British royal family.
Well, I thought CTG would prefer even a N against an Arg. :)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on March 13, 2013, 09:28:43 PM
Post by: Chulk on March 13, 2013, 09:28:43 PM
Atheist be happy! This is the end of the Catholic Church!!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 13, 2013, 10:17:41 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 13, 2013, 10:17:41 PM
It's nice to have an Arg pope but lets see how is his politic skills. I don't know what to think.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on March 14, 2013, 12:58:22 AM
Post by: Chulk on March 14, 2013, 12:58:22 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on March 13, 2013, 10:17:41 PMWhy is it nice? Why does it matter?
It's nice to have an Arg pope but lets see how is his politic skills. I don't know what to think.
It makes no difference, as they are suppose to represent all Catholics alike, whichever the country they were born in
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 14, 2013, 10:58:23 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 14, 2013, 10:58:23 AM
I think they're only supposed to represent catholics.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on March 14, 2013, 02:17:57 PM
Post by: Chulk on March 14, 2013, 02:17:57 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on March 14, 2013, 10:58:23 AMYes, sorry. I meant Catholics and not Christians. Edited
I think they're only supposed to represent catholics.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 15, 2013, 03:08:50 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 15, 2013, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: Chulk on March 13, 2013, 09:28:43 PM
Atheist be happy! This is the end of the Catholic Church!!
Really? Tell me more.
By the way, as an atheist, I'll be happy when every organized faith-based religion is gone.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 15, 2013, 04:11:54 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 15, 2013, 04:11:54 PM
That's not atheism then, it's anti-religion. You have to respect the people's belief.
To be an "anti-something" doesn't define you completely. For example here in Argentina, the gorvenment doesn't have a good and healthy opposition. There are a lot of people who is anti-government but there isn't here a party that joins all in a unique voice. No matter why, there are less than the half people who has no representation in the govenrment or any opposition party, who are still a lot. Those opposition partys are anti-government, but they don't have any proposal to get better or any stallin usual campaign lie. So people still doesn't vote them, because they are even worse.
To be an "anti-something" doesn't define you completely. For example here in Argentina, the gorvenment doesn't have a good and healthy opposition. There are a lot of people who is anti-government but there isn't here a party that joins all in a unique voice. No matter why, there are less than the half people who has no representation in the govenrment or any opposition party, who are still a lot. Those opposition partys are anti-government, but they don't have any proposal to get better or any stallin usual campaign lie. So people still doesn't vote them, because they are even worse.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on March 15, 2013, 05:33:16 PM
Post by: Duplode on March 15, 2013, 05:33:16 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on March 15, 2013, 04:11:54 PM
That's not atheism then, it's anti-religion. You have to respect the people's belief.
The main issue here is that respecting other people's beliefs does not imply respecting their political moves.
Quote from: alanrotoi on March 15, 2013, 04:11:54 PM
To be an "anti-something" doesn't define you completely. For example here in Argentina, the gorvenment doesn't have a good and healthy opposition. There are a lot of people who is anti-government but there isn't here a party that joins all in a unique voice. No matter why, there are less than the half people who has no representation in the govenrment or any opposition party, who are still a lot. Those opposition partys are anti-government, but they don't have any proposal to get better or any stallin usual campaign lie. So people still doesn't vote them, because they are even worse.
It is the same thing this side of the border... but I am not sure if the analogy works. While opposition to a government can only stand if it comes with a positive alternative, that doesn't hold when it comes to religion.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 15, 2013, 09:29:00 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 15, 2013, 09:29:00 PM
Yep and you don't know how hard is to me to explain myself in English out of the basic phrases I know. I am much better in Spanish speech.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 16, 2013, 11:45:24 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 16, 2013, 11:45:24 AM
I believe religion is generally not a good thing for society or the world in general.
For a number of individual human beings/families/communities, it is necessary. For most, I don't think so. I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to say this. People are free to believe what they want to believe. I don't have anything against people because they believe in God. But I am an anti-theist in the sense that I hope religion will cease to exist (I know this is not going to happen in the next 500 years at least...).
My alternative is critical thinking.
For a number of individual human beings/families/communities, it is necessary. For most, I don't think so. I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to say this. People are free to believe what they want to believe. I don't have anything against people because they believe in God. But I am an anti-theist in the sense that I hope religion will cease to exist (I know this is not going to happen in the next 500 years at least...).
My alternative is critical thinking.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 19, 2013, 08:57:27 AM
Post by: CTG on March 19, 2013, 08:57:27 AM
The new polls say the popularity of Fidesz increased a lot lately. I just can't understand the reason...
Ipsos: 45% Fidesz, 27% MSZP, 14% Jobbik, 9% Együtt 2014, 3% LMP, 2% DK (Gyurcsány's party); they say both Fidesz and MSZP increased their popularity
Századvég: 42% Fidesz, 29% MSZP, 17% Jobbik, 6% Együtt 2014, 4% LMP, 1% DK
Tárki: 48% Fidesz, 22% MSZP, 16% Jobbik, 9% Együtt 2014, 3% LMP, 1% DK; it seems they are the orange pollsters, saying that MSZP lost several voters lately, while Fidesz increased their advantage
The strange thing is that I know only a few Orbán supporters, while most of my friends, workmates and relatives are left-wing voters.
Ipsos: 45% Fidesz, 27% MSZP, 14% Jobbik, 9% Együtt 2014, 3% LMP, 2% DK (Gyurcsány's party); they say both Fidesz and MSZP increased their popularity
Századvég: 42% Fidesz, 29% MSZP, 17% Jobbik, 6% Együtt 2014, 4% LMP, 1% DK
Tárki: 48% Fidesz, 22% MSZP, 16% Jobbik, 9% Együtt 2014, 3% LMP, 1% DK; it seems they are the orange pollsters, saying that MSZP lost several voters lately, while Fidesz increased their advantage
The strange thing is that I know only a few Orbán supporters, while most of my friends, workmates and relatives are left-wing voters.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 19, 2013, 10:37:57 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 19, 2013, 10:37:57 AM
Two possible explanations: 1. fake surveys, 2. left-wing voters are in the cities and right-wing voters are in the country
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on March 19, 2013, 10:50:09 AM
Post by: Usrin on March 19, 2013, 10:50:09 AM
These percentages are measured only between those who are sure that they would vote at the elections. In Hungary, it is less than 50% of the adult population. The majority is disappointed by politicians in general (due to arrogance, corruption, etc., which was also seen during the previous governments). So even if they've left-wing views, they are not sure if they would go to the elections and vote for any of the left-wing parties.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 09, 2013, 11:28:21 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 09, 2013, 11:28:21 AM
My song for today (or rather yesterday):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4BCUWopQQ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4BCUWopQQ4
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Chulk on April 09, 2013, 06:06:29 PM
Post by: Chulk on April 09, 2013, 06:06:29 PM
Mine would be this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi-vJQ-N7Vc), thanks to an unprecedented rain and very poor flooding control and water works from our beloved government...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on April 09, 2013, 11:33:34 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on April 09, 2013, 11:33:34 PM
Yeah, Buenos Aires had a flooding too but it wasn't catastrophic like yours.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 08, 2013, 12:21:46 PM
Post by: CTG on November 08, 2013, 12:21:46 PM
Btw estimation game for the next Hungarian elections? (spring of 2014)
An early tip:
44% - Fidesz
20% - MSZP
12% - Jobbik
11% - Együtt 2014 (Bajnai's new party)
3.5% - DK (Gyurcsány's new party)
2.5% - LMP
7% - for other smaller parties
An early tip:
44% - Fidesz
20% - MSZP
12% - Jobbik
11% - Együtt 2014 (Bajnai's new party)
3.5% - DK (Gyurcsány's new party)
2.5% - LMP
7% - for other smaller parties
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 08, 2013, 02:53:47 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 08, 2013, 02:53:47 PM
How come? Do Hungarians not care about democracy? What's the explanation for the large share of Fidesz-votes? I don't understand. I mean, MSZP doesn't have to be even a half decent party to be a better choice than Fidesz.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on November 08, 2013, 02:56:19 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on November 08, 2013, 02:56:19 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on November 08, 2013, 02:53:47 PM
How come? Do Hungarians not care about democracy? What's the explanation for the large share of Fidesz-votes? I don't understand. I mean, MSZP doesn't have to be even a half decent party to be a better choice than Fidesz.
I also don't know. Whoever I know, all people are against Fidesz...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on November 14, 2013, 03:54:06 PM
Post by: Usrin on November 14, 2013, 03:54:06 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on November 08, 2013, 02:53:47 PM
How come? Do Hungarians not care about democracy? What's the explanation for the large share of Fidesz-votes? I don't understand. I mean, MSZP doesn't have to be even a half decent party to be a better choice than Fidesz.
See my earlier post:
Quote from: Usrin
These percentages are measured only between those who are sure that they would vote at the elections. In Hungary, it is less than 50% of the adult population. The majority is disappointed by politicians in general (due to arrogance, corruption, etc., which was also seen during the previous governments).
Even if they don't like Fidesz, they can't find any alternative. Maybe because there isn't. Opposition leaders still don't show real plans about how would they govern, they are rather fighting with each other. One more thing: people are strongly manipulated by the media. Not with direct Fidesz propaganda (it is also strong, but only the most stupid ones believe it), but with a lot of artificially created breaks in the society. Workers hate students, city dwellers hate villagers, motorists hate cyclists, etc., believing that their problems are caused by the other group. While people care about such stupid things instead of politics, Fidesz leaders happily destroy their rights and steals their future wealth.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 01, 2014, 01:52:00 PM
Post by: CTG on March 01, 2014, 01:52:00 PM
It's also worth to check the campaign billboards. The take home message is always quite primitive: "vote for us, because the other side is the maffia".
(http://static.origos.hu/s/img/i/1401/20140120cof-bohoc-gyurcsany-bajnai-mesterhazi.jpg?w=666&h=443)
Text: "They don't deserve more chance! Because they had already 8 years to prove."
(http://mandiner.hu/attachment/0056/55888_bekemenet_gyurcsany_bajnai_busz.jpg)
Text: "Gyurcsány-Bajnai alliance. They ruined the country TOGETHER. Once was enough from that! We don't forget!"
(http://444.hu/assets/mszp_plakat.jpg)
Text: "They live better already. And you? Simicska-Orbán maffia government"
(http://www.hajdupress.hu/assets/pictures/135590385984_2de63de85dc3025676835d792183a7bd.jpg)
Text: "Orbán-Hoffmann alliance. They ruined the education TOGETHER. Enough already!" (copycats... :D)
But my favorite one... ;D although it's just an internet meme:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pcs2lLckRUs/UMOxVOLdfOI/AAAAAAAAC6I/b9DsGRLFoww/s1600/1124_orban_mem_bajnai_gyurcsany_bekemenet.jpg)
Text: "Orbán Viktor. He ruined the country alone. And he's not ready yet."
(http://static.origos.hu/s/img/i/1401/20140120cof-bohoc-gyurcsany-bajnai-mesterhazi.jpg?w=666&h=443)
Text: "They don't deserve more chance! Because they had already 8 years to prove."
(http://mandiner.hu/attachment/0056/55888_bekemenet_gyurcsany_bajnai_busz.jpg)
Text: "Gyurcsány-Bajnai alliance. They ruined the country TOGETHER. Once was enough from that! We don't forget!"
(http://444.hu/assets/mszp_plakat.jpg)
Text: "They live better already. And you? Simicska-Orbán maffia government"
(http://www.hajdupress.hu/assets/pictures/135590385984_2de63de85dc3025676835d792183a7bd.jpg)
Text: "Orbán-Hoffmann alliance. They ruined the education TOGETHER. Enough already!" (copycats... :D)
But my favorite one... ;D although it's just an internet meme:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pcs2lLckRUs/UMOxVOLdfOI/AAAAAAAAC6I/b9DsGRLFoww/s1600/1124_orban_mem_bajnai_gyurcsany_bekemenet.jpg)
Text: "Orbán Viktor. He ruined the country alone. And he's not ready yet."
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2014, 07:21:45 AM
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2014, 07:21:45 AM
My political preferences, according to Vokskabin poll. Funny draw between Jobbik and MLP (Hungarian Liberal Party)... ;D
Poo? Usrin? Zak? (Others? If I have some time, I'll translate the questions.)
Poo? Usrin? Zak? (Others? If I have some time, I'll translate the questions.)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on March 06, 2014, 07:44:53 AM
Post by: zaqrack on March 06, 2014, 07:44:53 AM
I am as liberal as it gets, but that party is a joke.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on March 06, 2014, 08:30:40 AM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on March 06, 2014, 08:30:40 AM
Oi! :-)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2014, 09:30:08 AM
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2014, 09:30:08 AM
Quote from: Akoss Poo on March 06, 2014, 08:30:40 AM
Oi! :-)
Not as OI as I am! ;D
Btw your results don't really show big differences (between ~37 and ~67). But the most surprising fact: Zak is closer to Jobbik than to Fidesz! ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 06, 2014, 11:00:54 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 06, 2014, 11:00:54 AM
That was really saddening, seeing your graphs (except Zak's of course). No wonder Hungary is getting more and more fascist.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2014, 03:18:55 PM
Post by: CTG on March 06, 2014, 03:18:55 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on March 06, 2014, 11:00:54 AM
That was really saddening, seeing your graphs (except Zak's of course). No wonder Hungary is getting more and more fascist.
You should read the questions before you say anything about our results... (I won't vote for Jobbik.)
I guess you speak German, so here you are: http://www.vokskabin.hu/de/Questionnaire/Index (if you have any questions about the background of each points, just tell)
Btw even the most optimistic pollsters predict a huge Fidesz victory: the latest polls showed 49% for the governing party, only 30% for the left-wing alliance (MSZP-Együtt 2014-DK-MLP) and 18% for Jobbik (they are getting stronger and stronger again).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 06, 2014, 07:00:21 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 06, 2014, 07:00:21 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on March 06, 2014, 11:00:54 AM
That was really saddening, seeing your graphs (except Zak's of course). No wonder Hungary is getting more and more fascist.
It is an issue that occurs in many countries of Europe. France and Austria has the most relevant popular support of this ideology. Isn't it?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on March 06, 2014, 07:35:31 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on March 06, 2014, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: CTG on March 06, 2014, 03:18:55 PM
Btw even the most optimistic pollsters predict a huge Fidesz victory: the latest polls showed 49% for the governing party, only 30% for the left-wing alliance (MSZP-Együtt 2014-DK-MLP) and 18% for Jobbik (they are getting stronger and stronger again).
That's why I think that the whole thing will be cheated to the highest extent. 90 percent of the people I know (including me) hates FIDESZ and would vote for the 'everything but FIDESZ' option, no matter if he/she is liberal, communist, fascist, egoist, shittist, fartist or anythingist...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 06, 2014, 11:41:36 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 06, 2014, 11:41:36 PM
Okay, those questions could have been worse, but there's still cause for concern.
What's "Együtt 2014-PM"? I'm voting for them.
What's "Együtt 2014-PM"? I'm voting for them.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on March 07, 2014, 07:32:52 AM
Post by: zaqrack on March 07, 2014, 07:32:52 AM
That's the party of Gordon Bajnai who was leading the country for a year before FIDESZ was elected and a group of former LMP members who have split when LMP refused to cooperate with the socialist party.
Actually, there are only four real choices this year as several parties are starting joint lists for better chances to beat FIDESZ - they have modified the voting law to favour big parties.
A. FIDESZ + KDNP, the first we know, the latter being a very small ultra-catholic party containing probably the biggest assholes in Hungary.
B. KORMÁNYVÁLTÁS = EGYÜTT 2014 + PM + MSZP + DK + MLP, the big coalition of the opposition, recently changed name to KORMÁNYVÁLTÁS (change of government) who promote change, but promoted by people who have sit for 10+ years in the parliament and have proved totally unable to govern properly. So their credibility is questioned by many, including me. I would be fine voting on EGYÜTT + PM if that would not mean voting on MSZP and DK at the same time. The latter two are at least as unaccaptable proven through their track record as is FIDESZ.
C. JOBBIK, who have started to act more consolidated to appeal to FIDESZ voters. Their extreme-right wing did not like this and have split but will not be able to start on the elections. They refuse to cooperate with any leaders from the past 24 years.
D. LMP, the small green-leftist party which has undergone a serious internal crisis, splitting twice in half and is now totally unorganized. One thing they insist on and that is in common with JOBBIK - refusing cooperation with past leaders.
There are additonal 25-30 small parties who have absolutely no chance to get mandates.
So who to vote for?
FIDESZ - hell no, and mainly not because of how they govern and what they say (though that would be a good reason by itself), but rather because they had a once-in-a-lifetime chance to get Hungary back on track for at least my kids to be able to live in a proper country, and they DID NOT EVEN TRY. The other major reason is how they have destroyed the education system. Teachers can only use state-approved boosk to teach, supplied by the state - what the skid are they thinking?
JOBBIK - no, I won't vote on those who insult my family, throw eggs on gays and throw the EU flag out the window of the parliament even if they do have some valid points. If Hungary would not be part of the European Union anymore I would never return.
LMP - I don't agree with at least 50% of what they say and if they cannot govern their party, how could they govern a country? But still an option to consider just to give them 4 additional years to strengthen and develop. That means 4 years additional FIDESZ rule... hard choice.
KORMÁNYVÁLTÁS - Proven incompetent bunch of thiefs. If I vote on them, nothing will change in this country, but there is a very slight chance that FIDESZ does not win. I don't think voting for the "lesser bad" is a good thing to do as it only preserves the current -awful- state of politics. So I am leaning towards no.
Amongst most of my friends (most of who represent well-educated young people living in Budapest or abroad) FIDESZ is unacceptable due to their actions in the past 4 years, so is JOBBIK - their rhetorics and lack of tolerance against certain communities/groups cuts them from the list of options. I personally don't consider JOBBIK as much a threat as they are positioned in the western media, even though they still continue to insult my ancestors. They are destined continue to become more centric more simialar to far-right parties in Western Europe ans drop their extremist bullshit.
So there are basically two options:
1. vote on LMP hoping they can stay in the parliament and prepare for at least 4 years of additional FIDESZ rule.
2. hold back vomiting and vote on KORMÁNYVÁLTÁS, who are as incompetent and stealing assholes as FIDESZ members, but at least they don't interfere that much with your daily life.
Problem is we are a minority and there are additional major voting groups. The list is not comprehensive:
A. 3+ million pensioners, 30% of the country. They are practically split on simple lines, but generally vote on who promises the more pension - and FIDESZ did well in that with populist promise:
- those who did not like the communist era vote on FIDESZ
- those who preferred communists era to today vote on MSZP
- those who are really desperate with their living conditions (and there are many) vote on JOBBIK
B. Offshore-Hungarians. FIDESZ provided basic voting rights for them (note there are 3+ million Hungarians living outside of Hungary, mainly in Romania, Slovakia and Serbia), as the leftist parties have hurt them several times not supporting them properly. Only a fraction of these people are expected to vote, but they will all vote on FIDESZ or maybe JOBBIK.
C. Economic Elite, maybe 1%: A few people with a lot of economic power - all FIDESZ voters so they can continue to steal taxes.
D. "Ratko kids" - those born on the 50s, when there was a big campaign to promote having children - The last remaining base of MSZP.
E. Those living in the poor Eastern-Hungarian regions: Mostly JOBBIK as other parties are proven not to give a shit on their needs, while JOBBIK recognised this and does care about their problems.
F. Those living in small to mid-size countryside towns in the not so poor areas: The strongest FIDESZ base, the whole rhetoric and actions of FIDESZ is built to resonance with the needs of such people. "Strong country, resistance against EU, please state, support me and let me know what to do."
G. Budapest: People are more open and liberal here, so the leftist parties and LMP is stronger than anywhere else.
H. Gypsies: They are not properly represented by any party and not well organized Naturally they will not vote on Jobbik and in most cases they vote either FIDESZ or MSZP, often by being promised some money for their votes.
Actually, there are only four real choices this year as several parties are starting joint lists for better chances to beat FIDESZ - they have modified the voting law to favour big parties.
A. FIDESZ + KDNP, the first we know, the latter being a very small ultra-catholic party containing probably the biggest assholes in Hungary.
B. KORMÁNYVÁLTÁS = EGYÜTT 2014 + PM + MSZP + DK + MLP, the big coalition of the opposition, recently changed name to KORMÁNYVÁLTÁS (change of government) who promote change, but promoted by people who have sit for 10+ years in the parliament and have proved totally unable to govern properly. So their credibility is questioned by many, including me. I would be fine voting on EGYÜTT + PM if that would not mean voting on MSZP and DK at the same time. The latter two are at least as unaccaptable proven through their track record as is FIDESZ.
C. JOBBIK, who have started to act more consolidated to appeal to FIDESZ voters. Their extreme-right wing did not like this and have split but will not be able to start on the elections. They refuse to cooperate with any leaders from the past 24 years.
D. LMP, the small green-leftist party which has undergone a serious internal crisis, splitting twice in half and is now totally unorganized. One thing they insist on and that is in common with JOBBIK - refusing cooperation with past leaders.
There are additonal 25-30 small parties who have absolutely no chance to get mandates.
So who to vote for?
FIDESZ - hell no, and mainly not because of how they govern and what they say (though that would be a good reason by itself), but rather because they had a once-in-a-lifetime chance to get Hungary back on track for at least my kids to be able to live in a proper country, and they DID NOT EVEN TRY. The other major reason is how they have destroyed the education system. Teachers can only use state-approved boosk to teach, supplied by the state - what the skid are they thinking?
JOBBIK - no, I won't vote on those who insult my family, throw eggs on gays and throw the EU flag out the window of the parliament even if they do have some valid points. If Hungary would not be part of the European Union anymore I would never return.
LMP - I don't agree with at least 50% of what they say and if they cannot govern their party, how could they govern a country? But still an option to consider just to give them 4 additional years to strengthen and develop. That means 4 years additional FIDESZ rule... hard choice.
KORMÁNYVÁLTÁS - Proven incompetent bunch of thiefs. If I vote on them, nothing will change in this country, but there is a very slight chance that FIDESZ does not win. I don't think voting for the "lesser bad" is a good thing to do as it only preserves the current -awful- state of politics. So I am leaning towards no.
Amongst most of my friends (most of who represent well-educated young people living in Budapest or abroad) FIDESZ is unacceptable due to their actions in the past 4 years, so is JOBBIK - their rhetorics and lack of tolerance against certain communities/groups cuts them from the list of options. I personally don't consider JOBBIK as much a threat as they are positioned in the western media, even though they still continue to insult my ancestors. They are destined continue to become more centric more simialar to far-right parties in Western Europe ans drop their extremist bullshit.
So there are basically two options:
1. vote on LMP hoping they can stay in the parliament and prepare for at least 4 years of additional FIDESZ rule.
2. hold back vomiting and vote on KORMÁNYVÁLTÁS, who are as incompetent and stealing assholes as FIDESZ members, but at least they don't interfere that much with your daily life.
Problem is we are a minority and there are additional major voting groups. The list is not comprehensive:
A. 3+ million pensioners, 30% of the country. They are practically split on simple lines, but generally vote on who promises the more pension - and FIDESZ did well in that with populist promise:
- those who did not like the communist era vote on FIDESZ
- those who preferred communists era to today vote on MSZP
- those who are really desperate with their living conditions (and there are many) vote on JOBBIK
B. Offshore-Hungarians. FIDESZ provided basic voting rights for them (note there are 3+ million Hungarians living outside of Hungary, mainly in Romania, Slovakia and Serbia), as the leftist parties have hurt them several times not supporting them properly. Only a fraction of these people are expected to vote, but they will all vote on FIDESZ or maybe JOBBIK.
C. Economic Elite, maybe 1%: A few people with a lot of economic power - all FIDESZ voters so they can continue to steal taxes.
D. "Ratko kids" - those born on the 50s, when there was a big campaign to promote having children - The last remaining base of MSZP.
E. Those living in the poor Eastern-Hungarian regions: Mostly JOBBIK as other parties are proven not to give a shit on their needs, while JOBBIK recognised this and does care about their problems.
F. Those living in small to mid-size countryside towns in the not so poor areas: The strongest FIDESZ base, the whole rhetoric and actions of FIDESZ is built to resonance with the needs of such people. "Strong country, resistance against EU, please state, support me and let me know what to do."
G. Budapest: People are more open and liberal here, so the leftist parties and LMP is stronger than anywhere else.
H. Gypsies: They are not properly represented by any party and not well organized Naturally they will not vote on Jobbik and in most cases they vote either FIDESZ or MSZP, often by being promised some money for their votes.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on March 07, 2014, 10:53:23 AM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on March 07, 2014, 10:53:23 AM
By the way I won't be in Hungary on the day of the voting. I'll be coming home from Transylvania, and it's very possible that I won't be arriving to Kazincbarcika before the closure of voting.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on March 07, 2014, 11:12:50 AM
Post by: Usrin on March 07, 2014, 11:12:50 AM
Left-wing, as I guessed. (You know: Usrin will be a communist Slovak dictator, as predicted by Nostradamus!)
;)
Unfortunately the test doesn't ask our opinion about the leaders of the parties. That is a huge disadvantage for MSZP - full with corrupt, arrogant assholes knowing nothing about ordinary people's life, not really better than FIDESZ leaders. OK, if I voted I would choose KORMÁNYVÁLTÁS, even considering this. As Zak wrote, they would not interfere so much with our everyday life, and they are not "fighting" against EU. (As an organisation, EU is terribly bureaucratic and almost useless... but in my opinion it's still the best part of the world to live in.)
But actually I'm not voting this year, thanks to our government who made it almost impossible for me... Only those "offshore-Hungarians" are allowed to vote by mail, who don't have a registered address in Hungary (mostly members of the Hungarian minority in the neighbouring countries). Me, Zak and ca. 300 000 others who moved abroad for a job can vote ONLY at the Hungarian embassies. A trip to the embassy (in Oslo) would cost 150 EUR and take my entire Sunday... it does not worth that much. Why do we have these rules? Of course the government knows that people moving abroad are rarely happy with the conditions at home, and they would be opposition voters...
;)
Unfortunately the test doesn't ask our opinion about the leaders of the parties. That is a huge disadvantage for MSZP - full with corrupt, arrogant assholes knowing nothing about ordinary people's life, not really better than FIDESZ leaders. OK, if I voted I would choose KORMÁNYVÁLTÁS, even considering this. As Zak wrote, they would not interfere so much with our everyday life, and they are not "fighting" against EU. (As an organisation, EU is terribly bureaucratic and almost useless... but in my opinion it's still the best part of the world to live in.)
But actually I'm not voting this year, thanks to our government who made it almost impossible for me... Only those "offshore-Hungarians" are allowed to vote by mail, who don't have a registered address in Hungary (mostly members of the Hungarian minority in the neighbouring countries). Me, Zak and ca. 300 000 others who moved abroad for a job can vote ONLY at the Hungarian embassies. A trip to the embassy (in Oslo) would cost 150 EUR and take my entire Sunday... it does not worth that much. Why do we have these rules? Of course the government knows that people moving abroad are rarely happy with the conditions at home, and they would be opposition voters...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 07, 2014, 06:10:29 PM
Post by: CTG on March 07, 2014, 06:10:29 PM
Your Fidesz points are too high, Usrin... :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 19, 2014, 06:58:57 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 19, 2014, 06:58:57 AM
What do you think about Crimea? It should be back russian? It should stay ucranian? Is legal the new ucranian government? Is Putin going too far? Is EU + USA going too far?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 19, 2014, 07:27:52 AM
Post by: CTG on March 19, 2014, 07:27:52 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on March 19, 2014, 06:58:57 AM
What do you think about Crimea? It should be back russian? It should stay ucranian? Is legal the new ucranian government? Is Putin going too far? Is EU + USA going too far?
Nothing, yes (if they really want to join back), no (unless they want to stay in Ukraine), I don't care, yes (useless power demonstration), no (what did EU and USA do so far? almost nothing).
Probably you will find my opinion extremely stupid and narrow-focused, but as long as the real conflict stays within the borders of Ukraine, I don't really care.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 19, 2014, 08:57:20 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 19, 2014, 08:57:20 AM
What do you think about Crimea?
Big governance problem for the world and display of weakness from the West
It should be back russian?
Maybe in the long run, if that's what the people there want, but not in this way. If parts of countries can secede in this way from a country where they have equal democratic representation, it's going to be chaos. It has to be done in agreement with the national government. Countries like Russia can easily send Russians to live in interesting areas and vote for joining Russia.
It should stay ucranian?
Yes.
Is legal the new ucranian government?
Sadly no. It's got no mandate and it's unconstitutional. But of course you can't expect anything else days after a revolution.
Is Putin going too far?
Yes. What he's doing is in violation of UN conventions.
Is EU + USA going too far?
Not right now, but USA pushed the cart too far during the fall of Yanukovich. They've been supporting anti-Russian movements in Kiev for years, and they even took part in appointing the new cabinet. They must have figured out that there would be some kind of reaction from Russia, but maybe they didn't see this coming
Big governance problem for the world and display of weakness from the West
It should be back russian?
Maybe in the long run, if that's what the people there want, but not in this way. If parts of countries can secede in this way from a country where they have equal democratic representation, it's going to be chaos. It has to be done in agreement with the national government. Countries like Russia can easily send Russians to live in interesting areas and vote for joining Russia.
It should stay ucranian?
Yes.
Is legal the new ucranian government?
Sadly no. It's got no mandate and it's unconstitutional. But of course you can't expect anything else days after a revolution.
Is Putin going too far?
Yes. What he's doing is in violation of UN conventions.
Is EU + USA going too far?
Not right now, but USA pushed the cart too far during the fall of Yanukovich. They've been supporting anti-Russian movements in Kiev for years, and they even took part in appointing the new cabinet. They must have figured out that there would be some kind of reaction from Russia, but maybe they didn't see this coming
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 19, 2014, 09:18:09 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 19, 2014, 09:18:09 PM
I think more or less like you BJ.
USA + EU vs Russia buying governments and the people suffering in the middle of the battle.
USA + EU vs Russia buying governments and the people suffering in the middle of the battle.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 04, 2014, 03:11:06 PM
Post by: CTG on April 04, 2014, 03:11:06 PM
2 days left to the re-election of the gipsy dwarf & co.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 05, 2014, 03:50:28 PM
Post by: CTG on April 05, 2014, 03:50:28 PM
Ultimate predictions?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on April 05, 2014, 06:32:21 PM
Post by: zaqrack on April 05, 2014, 06:32:21 PM
I am not sure but I will be one of the first ones to vote in the world. around 3am Budapest time :)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 05, 2014, 10:24:49 PM
Post by: CTG on April 05, 2014, 10:24:49 PM
I still don't know what to do...
50% - leaving out the whole bullshit
30% - voting for the left wing alliance
20% - voting for Jobbik
50% - leaving out the whole bullshit
30% - voting for the left wing alliance
20% - voting for Jobbik
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on April 06, 2014, 03:28:52 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on April 06, 2014, 03:28:52 AM
Vote for Putin.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BöllérJani on April 06, 2014, 08:35:53 AM
Post by: BöllérJani on April 06, 2014, 08:35:53 AM
What happened to Torgyán?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 06, 2014, 10:23:08 AM
Post by: CTG on April 06, 2014, 10:23:08 AM
Quote from: BöllérJani on April 06, 2014, 08:35:53 AM
What happened to Torgyán?
1, Lost credibility between 1998 and 2002.
2, Became a media whore in the early 00s.
3, He's old (81) and maybe senile, too.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on April 06, 2014, 11:27:27 AM
Post by: Usrin on April 06, 2014, 11:27:27 AM
Quote from: CTG on April 05, 2014, 03:50:28 PM
Ultimate predictions?
Fidesz 40%, left-wing 29%, Jobbik 21%, LMP 6%, rest 4%.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 06, 2014, 12:15:14 PM
Post by: CTG on April 06, 2014, 12:15:14 PM
Quote from: Usrin on April 06, 2014, 11:27:27 AMQuote from: CTG on April 05, 2014, 03:50:28 PM
Ultimate predictions?
Fidesz 40%, left-wing 29%, Jobbik 21%, LMP 6%, rest 4%.
As for me:
44% - Fidesz
25% - left-wing alliance
21% - Jobbik
5.1% - LMP (just like their ancestor, the "good" old SZDSZ... btw I hope to see 4.99% for them)
4.9% - the rest
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 06, 2014, 02:49:49 PM
Post by: CTG on April 06, 2014, 02:49:49 PM
Btw finally I decided to vote.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on April 06, 2014, 06:50:57 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on April 06, 2014, 06:50:57 PM
No matter who you'll vote, always always better to try your democratic right.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 06, 2014, 10:30:19 PM
Post by: CTG on April 06, 2014, 10:30:19 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on April 06, 2014, 06:50:57 PM
No matter who you'll vote, always always better to try your democratic right.
Well... my choice won't win... not even in my district.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 07, 2014, 08:25:52 AM
Post by: CTG on April 07, 2014, 08:25:52 AM
Quote from: CTG on April 06, 2014, 12:15:14 PM
As for me:
44% - Fidesz
25% - left-wing alliance
21% - Jobbik
5.1% - LMP (just like their ancestor, the "good" old SZDSZ... btw I hope to see 4.99% for them)
4.9% - the rest
It seems my tips were way too good... Fidesz will have the crucial 2/3 of the seats (with ~45% of the votes, what a stupid system...), while the neo-SZDSZ is also in with ~5.2%. The detailed results... well... it's better not to analyse. The whole procedure reminds me on a Z category reality show, where the winner - after a tight battle - has exactly as much votes as it's necessary (the only difference is that the goal was the 2/3 of the mandates, not a simple victory).
Counting 98.97% of the votes:
44.54% - Fidesz-KDNP (133 seats from 199, 66.8%, no comment...)
25.99% - left-wing alliance (38 seats, 19.1%)
20.54% - Jobbik (23 seats, 11.6%)
5.26% - LMP (5 seats, 2.5%, status quo, "a kecske is jóllakott, a káposzta is megmaradt")
all the other parties under 1%
In my district, the left-wing applicant won (the local Fidesz applicant is way too corrupt, even his own party is fed up with him).
I'm almost sure that the whole elections were cheated, but since there's no credible major political power on the map, so it's irrelevant. As for me, the only party which seems to be more or less trustful is Jobbik, probably just because they had not governed the country yet - I'm afraid they would be as shitty as the other two... However, I would give them the chance for 4 years to prove the opposite.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 08:55:40 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 08:55:40 AM
Quote from: CTG on April 07, 2014, 08:25:52 AMQuote from: CTG on April 06, 2014, 12:15:14 PM
As for me:
44% - Fidesz
25% - left-wing alliance
21% - Jobbik
5.1% - LMP (just like their ancestor, the "good" old SZDSZ... btw I hope to see 4.99% for them)
4.9% - the rest
It seems my tips were way too good... Fidesz will have the crucial 2/3 of the seats (with ~45% of the votes, what a stupid system...), while the neo-SZDSZ is also in with ~5.2%. The detailed results... well... it's better not to analyse. The whole procedure reminds me on a Z category reality show, where the winner - after a tight battle - has exactly as much votes as it's necessary (the only difference is that the goal was the 2/3 of the mandates, not a simple victory).
Counting 98.97% of the votes:
44.54% - Fidesz-KDNP (133 seats from 199, 66.8%, no comment...)
25.99% - left-wing alliance (38 seats, 19.1%)
20.54% - Jobbik (23 seats, 11.6%)
5.26% - LMP (5 seats, 2.5%, status quo, "a kecske is jóllakott, a káposzta is megmaradt")
all the other parties under 1%
In my district, the left-wing applicant won (the local Fidesz applicant is way too corrupt, even his own party is fed up with him).
I'm almost sure that the whole elections were cheated, but since there's no credible major political power on the map, so it's irrelevant. As for me, the only party which seems to be more or less trustful is Jobbik, probably just because they had not governed the country yet - I'm afraid they would be as shitty as the other two... However, I would give them the chance for 4 years to prove the opposite.
So it doesn't matter exactly what political ideas they will implement with all their purity and credibility?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 08:56:34 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 08:56:34 AM
By the way I agree with your "no comment". You no longer live in a democracy.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 07, 2014, 09:46:34 AM
Post by: CTG on April 07, 2014, 09:46:34 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 08:55:40 AM
So it doesn't matter exactly what political ideas they will implement with all their purity and credibility?
I have no problem with their ideas. The party itself is not as radical as it seems to be - whatever the Western media says, they are not nazis, only the loud minority of their supporters.
Our country is in a deep moral (and economical) crisis. A strict government - let's say Jobbik, but with a strong and constructive left-wing opposition - could help a lot in this situation. Unfortunately most of the voters are still brainless sheeps, forgetting about the poor performance of Fidesz between 2010 and 2013 (thinking only on the "generous" last year, which was the part of the campaign). We will have two more elections in this year (European Parliament, local authorities), so the next economical restrictions are coming only in 2015...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 12:03:44 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 12:03:44 PM
Well, of course there could be one really great thing about Jobbík in goverment:
Either they would accept the EU, which would quickly expose them as being just another opportunist party who don't really believe what they say they believe, or they would actually pull Hungary away from the EU, which would skid up the country's economy and make the people realize how much they depend on other countries and how much stronger international communities are than lonely nations. And this would also hurt their vote counts.
But of course they will never be in government, so they can keep singing about whatever they want.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Jobbik a nationalist party that wants to create separate rights for people based on ethnicity?
Either they would accept the EU, which would quickly expose them as being just another opportunist party who don't really believe what they say they believe, or they would actually pull Hungary away from the EU, which would skid up the country's economy and make the people realize how much they depend on other countries and how much stronger international communities are than lonely nations. And this would also hurt their vote counts.
But of course they will never be in government, so they can keep singing about whatever they want.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Jobbik a nationalist party that wants to create separate rights for people based on ethnicity?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 12:04:48 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 12:04:48 PM
By the way, what do you mean by "moral crisis"? What is Hungary's moral crisis?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 07, 2014, 12:49:35 PM
Post by: CTG on April 07, 2014, 12:49:35 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 12:04:48 PM
By the way, what do you mean by "moral crisis"? What is Hungary's moral crisis?
Answer: tomorrow, I don't have enough time now to summarize. However, I'm afraid my English vocabulary is simply too poor to explain you the local "specialities", missing from Zak's explanations.
Btw I don't want to hurt Mr. McKracken, but he doesn't really see what happens in the Hungarian reality: in the poor districts of Budapest / coutryside, or simply in the home of less educated people (=the majority of Hungarians). Being a (well-paid) white collar man in the capital... well... it's a lucky and way too sterile case. For example you need to see the gypsy problem with your own eyes - not only from the news. Unfortunately they are the part of my everydays, since I'm working in one of the most dangerous districts of Budapest (and I use public transport).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on April 08, 2014, 09:13:00 AM
Post by: zaqrack on April 08, 2014, 09:13:00 AM
you are partially wrong.
First of all yes, I do not have much coverage on what has happened in the past years, as the past 3 years I have spent mostly abroad and am not exposed to Hungarian problems on a daily level.
But then also:
- I do mountain biking. That involves going through remote parts of remote, in some cases very remote villages. Sure, I rarely get to the eastern part of Hungary, but I would not call Nógrád county overdeveloped and the problems you describe are present there as well. Never had any conflicts or problems.
- Even though we live in the capital and on the Buda side, I do live in a "panel" district and next door to a youth detainment centre. Don't think I am enclosed by walls from the outside world.
- Part of my family lives and several of my friends in the heart of district VIII (some of them actually LIKE to live there, believe it or not). I regularly visit. By public transport, by bike. I know what is the situation and yes, one has to be careful. But it is a problem of poor/under-educated people altogether and not a problem of specific minorities.
I am not saying I am involved with such things on a daily basis, but it is incorrect to state I am not aware and do not see the issues present in the countryside / poor districts.
First of all yes, I do not have much coverage on what has happened in the past years, as the past 3 years I have spent mostly abroad and am not exposed to Hungarian problems on a daily level.
But then also:
- I do mountain biking. That involves going through remote parts of remote, in some cases very remote villages. Sure, I rarely get to the eastern part of Hungary, but I would not call Nógrád county overdeveloped and the problems you describe are present there as well. Never had any conflicts or problems.
- Even though we live in the capital and on the Buda side, I do live in a "panel" district and next door to a youth detainment centre. Don't think I am enclosed by walls from the outside world.
- Part of my family lives and several of my friends in the heart of district VIII (some of them actually LIKE to live there, believe it or not). I regularly visit. By public transport, by bike. I know what is the situation and yes, one has to be careful. But it is a problem of poor/under-educated people altogether and not a problem of specific minorities.
I am not saying I am involved with such things on a daily basis, but it is incorrect to state I am not aware and do not see the issues present in the countryside / poor districts.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on April 08, 2014, 11:09:26 AM
Post by: Usrin on April 08, 2014, 11:09:26 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 12:03:44 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Jobbik a nationalist party that wants to create separate rights for people based on ethnicity?
Sorry, you're wrong. Jobbik is a nationalist party, but they never wanted to create different rights based on ethnicity. They tend to see Gypsies and Jewish as reasons of problems in Hungary, however the solutions they offer are different than you think. What do their "anti-gypsy" plans mean? More policemen in rural areas, stricter penalties for minor crimes, benefits for non-working people in kind (instead of giving money which they often spend on alcohol, etc.), forcing parents to send kids to school, forcing people to keep their environment tidy, etc. These rules would apply to everybody, not regarding ethnicity! The Western media likes to exaggerate the "nazi danger" in Hungary... That's mainly because our politicians' habit of telling lies about their opponents to foreign journalists, not caring if they destroy the reputation of the whole country. (Fidesz in opposition did the same with the left-wing.)
I've quite strong left-wing (socialist, not liberal) political views, so I would never vote for Jobbik. But I can understand people who do. Currently Jobbik is the only party who stand for any kind of ideas, and have plans about how to govern the country. Fidesz and the left-wing politicians are not more than the spokesmen of oligarch groups. Believe it or not, the two major parties had no published political programs before the elections... They want to rule simply because they want to give all business opportunities and all possible money to their wealthy friends in the background. I think that's the moral crisis what CTG talks about.
I've already written about the "Gypsy problem" in this forum. That's an existing problem in Hungary, and Jobbik is the only party not denying it. Maybe Zak feels safe in the "bad" districts and villages as a traveler, but it is very-very different for people living there. They can be attacked anytime (even in their homes), they cannot grow anything in their gardens (because Gypsy gangs pick everything), their children are terrorised in school, etc. And yes, their are specific types of crime which are related to Gypsies due to their very different cultural traditions. They were nomad people: in their world there was no private property, they took whatever they needed, and they reacted to any offence with calling the family members for a massive attack. In Europe, in the 21th century this is called crime, and cannot be tolerated.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on April 08, 2014, 11:42:20 AM
Post by: zaqrack on April 08, 2014, 11:42:20 AM
Slightly related news:
http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/02/and-the-worlds-unhappiest-country-is-officially.html
http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/02/and-the-worlds-unhappiest-country-is-officially.html
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on April 08, 2014, 12:15:30 PM
Post by: Usrin on April 08, 2014, 12:15:30 PM
Btw, real Nazis are in Ukraine... but they are shown as hyper-cool freedom fighters in the Western press. :-[
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 08, 2014, 12:42:25 PM
Post by: CTG on April 08, 2014, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: Usrin on April 08, 2014, 11:09:26 AMQuote from: BonzaiJoe on April 07, 2014, 12:03:44 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Jobbik a nationalist party that wants to create separate rights for people based on ethnicity?
Sorry, you're wrong. Jobbik is a nationalist party, but they never wanted to create different rights based on ethnicity. They tend to see Gypsies and Jewish as reasons of problems in Hungary, however the solutions they offer are different than you think. What do their "anti-gypsy" plans mean? More policemen in rural areas, stricter penalties for minor crimes, benefits for non-working people in kind (instead of giving money which they often spend on alcohol, etc.), forcing parents to send kids to school, forcing people to keep their environment tidy, etc. These rules would apply to everybody, not regarding ethnicity! The Western media likes to exaggerate the "nazi danger" in Hungary... That's mainly because our politicians' habit of telling lies about their opponents to foreign journalists, not caring if they destroy the reputation of the whole country. (Fidesz in opposition did the same with the left-wing.)
I've quite strong left-wing (socialist, not liberal) political views, so I would never vote for Jobbik. But I can understand people who do. Currently Jobbik is the only party who stand for any kind of ideas, and have plans about how to govern the country. Fidesz and the left-wing politicians are not more than the spokesmen of oligarch groups. Believe it or not, the two major parties had no published political programs before the elections... They want to rule simply because they want to give all business opportunities and all possible money to their wealthy friends in the background. I think that's the moral crisis what CTG talks about.
I've already written about the "Gypsy problem" in this forum. That's an existing problem in Hungary, and Jobbik is the only party not denying it. Maybe Zak feels safe in the "bad" districts and villages as a traveler, but it is very-very different for people living there. They can be attacked anytime (even in their homes), they cannot grow anything in their gardens (because Gypsy gangs pick everything), their children are terrorised in school, etc. And yes, their are specific types of crime which are related to Gypsies due to their very different cultural traditions. They were nomad people: in their world there was no private property, they took whatever they needed, and they reacted to any offence with calling the family members for a massive attack. In Europe, in the 21th century this is called crime, and cannot be tolerated.
There's nothing more to add about political situation, I agree with every words.
However, I thought on "moral crisis" from a different aspect, also described by Usrin in the past: the moral of Hungarian citizens (summary: we are our own enemies).
Quote from: Usrin on November 14, 2013, 03:54:06 PM
One more thing: people are strongly manipulated by the media. Not with direct Fidesz propaganda (it is also strong, but only the most stupid ones believe it), but with a lot of artificially created breaks in the society. Workers hate students, city dwellers hate villagers, motorists hate cyclists, etc., believing that their problems are caused by the other group. While people care about such stupid things instead of politics, Fidesz leaders happily destroy their rights and steals their future wealth.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 08, 2014, 12:50:38 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 08, 2014, 12:50:38 PM
Thanks for elaborating on these issues.
I'm thinking about another artificial division: east/west. Are we really still east and west 24 years after the fall of the Soviet Union? And do we want to be?
I'm thinking about another artificial division: east/west. Are we really still east and west 24 years after the fall of the Soviet Union? And do we want to be?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 08, 2014, 12:52:37 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on April 08, 2014, 12:52:37 PM
By the way it's a typical thing in history that radical movements with very clean-cut and simple sounding ideas gain momentum because of weak or incompetent centrist politicians that have grown too accustomed to power. It's worth remembering that the failure of one does not make the other better.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 08, 2014, 12:55:20 PM
Post by: CTG on April 08, 2014, 12:55:20 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on April 08, 2014, 12:50:38 PM
I'm thinking about another artificial division: east/west. Are we really still east and west 24 years after the fall of the Soviet Union? And do we want to be?
You've already seen the Eastern block: the difference is too huge to forget about divisions.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 08, 2014, 03:57:09 PM
Post by: CTG on April 08, 2014, 03:57:09 PM
Btw I think the most significant cause of our moral crisis is the basic mentality of Hungarian people. I could tell you dozens of "typical Hungarian" bullshit - I won't, it would be a cheap cliche. Only a little sad fact: considering the incredible popularity and "aping" of reality shows / brainless soap operas, Hungary is the most infected (brainwashed) country on Earth by celebrity "cult" and by the resulting deviant behaviour. You can't see real characters in Hungarian reality shows: just some "analphabetic" muscle guys and sluts with fake boobs (porn experience is almost obligatory!). Yeah, it must be a global process, but once I checked some other country's Big Brother cast - it was fuckin' different (sometimes even "normal" participants appeared).
Some of the signs, how deep the swamp is:
- An average (less educated) young man: eats steroids to look like "Big Brother Joe" or "Való Világ Jack" (with only a minimal workout), owns (or wants to own) a tuned BMW with UV lights, rear wing and enormous loudspeakers/subwoofer (because it's "so coooooooool" to listen hardstyle techno at 150 dB while playing "Fast & Furious" on the street, disturbing the half district with it), owns an iPhone (or at least a noname phone with fake iPhone backcover), sucks up tons of cheap energy drink, has at least 3 tattoos (mainly violent content or Chinese letters, although they don't know what does the latter one mean - I hope the tattoo makers trolled them with ugly Chinese words ;D), chain smoker from the age of 12-14...
- An average (less educated) young woman: acts/dresses/behaves like a prostitute (Hungary is first in the number of porn actresses per capita!), wants to have (or already has) fake boobs, she's keen on typical average young man described above, sucks up tons of cheap energy drink, has at least 3 non-figurative tattoos, chain smoker from the age of 12-14...
- Both of them watch all the reality shows and 10 min/episode soap operas ("Barátok közt").
- Reading habits: only low-class tabloids, celebrity magazines (not even a sports newspaper!)
- Zero sense to politics (the majority can't name the ministers or even the MPs of their own district)
etc. (I could continue for hours, but it's better not to)
Meanwhile - thanks to the last few governments - our education system is in ruins. 15-20 years ago, Hungary had a pretty strong education system with respectable results in international tests (not the close elite level, but still a decent one). Nowadays, the performance of Hungarian students sinked to the level of third-world countries. No surprise, being a teacher is not a value anymore (low salary, humiliation in their everyday work) - most of the teacher candidates were simply too stupid to enter better universities. For example, one of my former schoolmates from primary school is now a teacher in secondary school - although he was always close to get failed at the end of the years, but he could enter the weakest teacher training college with a minimal score (and survived it somehow)... No problem: the most important thing is that your child can learn the Fidesz-censored history and ethics (based on populist right-wing "values"), they must participate 5 PE lessons per week (most of the schools simply don't have the equipment and sports grounds for that), while the number of science lessons is decreasing. Experts say Hungary will become the land of functional analphabets...
Still education: in Hungary, young people think that BSc/MSc degree is granted for everyone on general eligibility. It's no matter how valueless it is, they want to own it without efforts - and the system helps a lot by providing endless number of places at useless faculties (even the most untalented little rats [sorry] can find a place to spend 5-10 lazy years somewhere, spendig the money of the parents, without the need of working). Where does it lead? Hungarian degrees will absolutely lose their value.
Just like my eternal favorite chat partner (Szilvi) said: "most of the Hungarian people need a degree only to get a job where they can play Solitaire in an air-conditioned office for 200000 HUF/month...".
Sorry, it wasn't a well-organized opinion (I'm tired), just a few random chapters from the sick and annoying reality of our country.
Some of the signs, how deep the swamp is:
- An average (less educated) young man: eats steroids to look like "Big Brother Joe" or "Való Világ Jack" (with only a minimal workout), owns (or wants to own) a tuned BMW with UV lights, rear wing and enormous loudspeakers/subwoofer (because it's "so coooooooool" to listen hardstyle techno at 150 dB while playing "Fast & Furious" on the street, disturbing the half district with it), owns an iPhone (or at least a noname phone with fake iPhone backcover), sucks up tons of cheap energy drink, has at least 3 tattoos (mainly violent content or Chinese letters, although they don't know what does the latter one mean - I hope the tattoo makers trolled them with ugly Chinese words ;D), chain smoker from the age of 12-14...
- An average (less educated) young woman: acts/dresses/behaves like a prostitute (Hungary is first in the number of porn actresses per capita!), wants to have (or already has) fake boobs, she's keen on typical average young man described above, sucks up tons of cheap energy drink, has at least 3 non-figurative tattoos, chain smoker from the age of 12-14...
- Both of them watch all the reality shows and 10 min/episode soap operas ("Barátok közt").
- Reading habits: only low-class tabloids, celebrity magazines (not even a sports newspaper!)
- Zero sense to politics (the majority can't name the ministers or even the MPs of their own district)
etc. (I could continue for hours, but it's better not to)
Meanwhile - thanks to the last few governments - our education system is in ruins. 15-20 years ago, Hungary had a pretty strong education system with respectable results in international tests (not the close elite level, but still a decent one). Nowadays, the performance of Hungarian students sinked to the level of third-world countries. No surprise, being a teacher is not a value anymore (low salary, humiliation in their everyday work) - most of the teacher candidates were simply too stupid to enter better universities. For example, one of my former schoolmates from primary school is now a teacher in secondary school - although he was always close to get failed at the end of the years, but he could enter the weakest teacher training college with a minimal score (and survived it somehow)... No problem: the most important thing is that your child can learn the Fidesz-censored history and ethics (based on populist right-wing "values"), they must participate 5 PE lessons per week (most of the schools simply don't have the equipment and sports grounds for that), while the number of science lessons is decreasing. Experts say Hungary will become the land of functional analphabets...
Still education: in Hungary, young people think that BSc/MSc degree is granted for everyone on general eligibility. It's no matter how valueless it is, they want to own it without efforts - and the system helps a lot by providing endless number of places at useless faculties (even the most untalented little rats [sorry] can find a place to spend 5-10 lazy years somewhere, spendig the money of the parents, without the need of working). Where does it lead? Hungarian degrees will absolutely lose their value.
Just like my eternal favorite chat partner (Szilvi) said: "most of the Hungarian people need a degree only to get a job where they can play Solitaire in an air-conditioned office for 200000 HUF/month...".
Sorry, it wasn't a well-organized opinion (I'm tired), just a few random chapters from the sick and annoying reality of our country.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 08, 2014, 04:28:46 PM
Post by: CTG on April 08, 2014, 04:28:46 PM
Reminder for myself: I should write about our "great nationalism" (tomorrow?). It's worth to compare with other countries.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on May 08, 2014, 07:23:14 PM
Post by: CTG on May 08, 2014, 07:23:14 PM
See what happens when people take politics too seriously... ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2edtLzQeMMY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2edtLzQeMMY
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on May 26, 2014, 06:58:59 PM
Post by: CTG on May 26, 2014, 06:58:59 PM
Results of EP elections in Hungary:
Participation rate: 28.9%, which meant good only for Fidesz (I also missed it, busy Sunday)
Distribution of the votes and mandates:
51.49% - Fidesz (12 mandates)
14.68% - Jobbik (3 mandates), no, they are not weaker than in April, but since a typical Jobbik voter is against EU membership, they are not that interested in this election
10.92% - MSZP (2 mandates), swan song of the old socialist party, they will disappear soon
9.76% - Demokratikus Koalíció (Gyurcsány's "left-wing" party, 2 mandates)
7.22% - Együtt-PM (Bajnai's "left-wing" party, 1 mandate)
5.01% - LMP (1 mandate), the usual "lucky" result by the neo-SZDSZ...
Btw I'm quite surprised to see the results of some Western European countries (France, Great Britain).
Participation rate: 28.9%, which meant good only for Fidesz (I also missed it, busy Sunday)
Distribution of the votes and mandates:
51.49% - Fidesz (12 mandates)
14.68% - Jobbik (3 mandates), no, they are not weaker than in April, but since a typical Jobbik voter is against EU membership, they are not that interested in this election
10.92% - MSZP (2 mandates), swan song of the old socialist party, they will disappear soon
9.76% - Demokratikus Koalíció (Gyurcsány's "left-wing" party, 2 mandates)
7.22% - Együtt-PM (Bajnai's "left-wing" party, 1 mandate)
5.01% - LMP (1 mandate), the usual "lucky" result by the neo-SZDSZ...
Btw I'm quite surprised to see the results of some Western European countries (France, Great Britain).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 26, 2014, 10:49:44 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 26, 2014, 10:49:44 PM
Scary to see the right-wing nationalists win such big victories in Denmark, Britain, France and Austria. Apart from that, results were not too bad. It's really hard to say who yet who will be the new chairman of the commission. I hope it won't be Mr. Juncker :-\
The Hungarian results are crazy. 28,9% participation rate is tragic. How does it compare to your national election, and what do you think the 71,1% non-voters were thinking on Sunday? They all still count in the parliamentary representation. So they are now almost all represented by Fidesz and Jobbik. I hope they like that fact.
My party, Det Radikale Venstre (Danish Social-liberalist Party) is back in the parliament (ALDE) with one mandate, which is great.
The Hungarian results are crazy. 28,9% participation rate is tragic. How does it compare to your national election, and what do you think the 71,1% non-voters were thinking on Sunday? They all still count in the parliamentary representation. So they are now almost all represented by Fidesz and Jobbik. I hope they like that fact.
My party, Det Radikale Venstre (Danish Social-liberalist Party) is back in the parliament (ALDE) with one mandate, which is great.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on May 27, 2014, 08:48:12 AM
Post by: CTG on May 27, 2014, 08:48:12 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on May 26, 2014, 10:49:44 PM
I hope it won't be Mr. Juncker :-\
Funny, but even if Fidesz is the member of EPP, Orbán doesn't support Juncker.
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on May 26, 2014, 10:49:44 PM
The Hungarian results are crazy. 28,9% participation rate is tragic. How does it compare to your national election, and what do you think the 71,1% non-voters were thinking on Sunday? They all still count in the parliamentary representation. So they are now almost all represented by Fidesz and Jobbik. I hope they like that fact.
Participation rate of the national elections: 61.2% (decreasing). However, people weren't really interested in the last two EP elections either: 38.5% in 2004 (right after we joined EU), 36.3% in 2009.
Low participation rate was quite predictable, because:
- people are getting more and more disappointed in the well-known political forces
- our EP representation was rather a well-paid holiday for 21 "politicians"
- right wing voters are (partly) against EU membership
However, Slovakia showed up even worse participation rate: 13%! :o
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on May 27, 2014, 11:23:29 AM
Post by: Usrin on May 27, 2014, 11:23:29 AM
Quote from: CTG on May 26, 2014, 06:58:59 PM
7.22% - Együtt-PM (Bajnai's "left-wing" party, 1 mandate)
5.01% - LMP (1 mandate), the usual "lucky" result by the neo-SZDSZ...
Since PM separated from LMP (1-2 years ago) and started to strengthen connections with "left-wing" parties (heavily fighting for postions despite low popular support), it is clear that they are the neo-SZDSZ. Whereas the remaining LMP became Fidesz puppets. They are trying to balance between right- and left-wings, and the green dreams (saving the whales, shutting down the nuclear power plants) are more important for them than real political questions. But they can steal some opposition votes, strengthening the position of Fidesz... That's why they are always helped to reach 5%.
Of course I didn't vote as it was possible only in Oslo. Otherwise I would have probably voted for DK.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on May 27, 2014, 02:09:30 PM
Post by: CTG on May 27, 2014, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: Usrin on May 27, 2014, 11:23:29 AMQuote from: CTG on May 26, 2014, 06:58:59 PM
7.22% - Együtt-PM (Bajnai's "left-wing" party, 1 mandate)
5.01% - LMP (1 mandate), the usual "lucky" result by the neo-SZDSZ...
Since PM separated from LMP (1-2 years ago) and started to strengthen connections with "left-wing" parties (heavily fighting for postions despite low popular support), it is clear that they are the neo-SZDSZ. Whereas the remaining LMP became Fidesz puppets. They are trying to balance between right- and left-wings, and the green dreams (saving the whales, shutting down the nuclear power plants) are more important for them than real political questions. But they can steal some opposition votes, strengthening the position of Fidesz... That's why they are always helped to reach 5%.
Of course I didn't vote as it was possible only in Oslo. Otherwise I would have probably voted for DK.
nothing about slovakia?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on June 06, 2014, 03:31:53 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on June 06, 2014, 03:31:53 PM
What do you think about European monarchies?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on June 06, 2014, 03:45:11 PM
Post by: CTG on June 06, 2014, 03:45:11 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on June 06, 2014, 03:31:53 PM
What do you think about European monarchies?
Do you mean monarchies as countries "governed" by kings? I think it's just a meaningless title in this democratic (?) world, without real power. All the decisions are born in the parliaments.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on June 06, 2014, 06:16:08 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on June 06, 2014, 06:16:08 PM
I mean the high economic costs they have for the people, for example in Netherlands or Spain.
BTW if you think they have no political power you are wrong. They can't change the constitution of a country of course but they have high influences where the power is.
BTW if you think they have no political power you are wrong. They can't change the constitution of a country of course but they have high influences where the power is.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on June 08, 2014, 02:28:08 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on June 08, 2014, 02:28:08 PM
I think they should all be abolished. In Denmark, the queen doesn't exercise any political power and she does a fine job being queen but the whole system is useless and in violation of human rights.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 10, 2014, 06:38:34 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 10, 2014, 06:38:34 PM
Yesterday
(https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10665682_800200670044470_6373104367886368197_n.jpg?oh=ecc087d5d79b53d5ead1177014ddde39&oe=549EF54C)
(https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10665682_800200670044470_6373104367886368197_n.jpg?oh=ecc087d5d79b53d5ead1177014ddde39&oe=549EF54C)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on September 10, 2014, 07:34:24 PM
Post by: CTG on September 10, 2014, 07:34:24 PM
Third world: yes
Always neutral cowards: n/a
Big fishes and their asslickers (Hungary): no
(btw what was that?)
Always neutral cowards: n/a
Big fishes and their asslickers (Hungary): no
(btw what was that?)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 10, 2014, 07:45:03 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 10, 2014, 07:45:03 PM
Not a single European country voted in favour. But what would be the implications of if this was passed?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 10, 2014, 09:01:50 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 10, 2014, 09:01:50 PM
It's on the screen: "...establishment of a multilateral legal framework for sovereign debt restructuring processes".
Those who has that "business" and their minions voted No. Those who say "I like to suck your dick everyday but that business may hurt me a lot" abstained. And those who say "I suck your dick everyday but that business IS killing me" voted Yes.
Only abstinence of France was a surprise for me.
PS: when I say "minions" or "dick suckers" I mean politicians and governments not the people. I make it clear just in case you don't understand my Tarzanenglish :D
Those who has that "business" and their minions voted No. Those who say "I like to suck your dick everyday but that business may hurt me a lot" abstained. And those who say "I suck your dick everyday but that business IS killing me" voted Yes.
Only abstinence of France was a surprise for me.
PS: when I say "minions" or "dick suckers" I mean politicians and governments not the people. I make it clear just in case you don't understand my Tarzanenglish :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 10, 2014, 09:16:20 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 10, 2014, 09:16:20 PM
Well, yes, it's on the screen, but sadly I don't really know what a "sovereign debt restructuring process" is :(
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on September 10, 2014, 10:02:53 PM
Post by: Usrin on September 10, 2014, 10:02:53 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on September 10, 2014, 09:16:20 PM
Well, yes, it's on the screen, but sadly I don't really know what a "sovereign debt restructuring process" is :(
I understand it this way: "states don't have to pay back the money they borrowed, if they don't want".
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 10, 2014, 11:04:40 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 10, 2014, 11:04:40 PM
Quote from: Usrin on September 10, 2014, 10:02:53 PMI understand it this way: "states don't have to pay back the money they borrowed, if they don't want".
Do you really think that UN would ever make a votation about something that stupid?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on September 18, 2014, 04:01:12 PM
Post by: CTG on September 18, 2014, 04:01:12 PM
Do you support the independence of Scotland?
(I guess they will stay in the UK.)
(I guess they will stay in the UK.)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 18, 2014, 05:19:01 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 18, 2014, 05:19:01 PM
It doesn't matter because they were never gonna vote yes, but just for the sake of the argument: at the end of the day I think I oppose it (although of course if it's what the people wants, they should have it). I don't like the idea of national sentiment making itself relevant in this day and age.
However, I can distinctly feel a hope for a yes, partly for romantic reasons, partly because it's what Belle & Sebastian want, and mainly because I hate David Cameron so much and I want him to crash and burn.
However, I can distinctly feel a hope for a yes, partly for romantic reasons, partly because it's what Belle & Sebastian want, and mainly because I hate David Cameron so much and I want him to crash and burn.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on September 18, 2014, 05:33:55 PM
Post by: CTG on September 18, 2014, 05:33:55 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on September 18, 2014, 05:19:01 PM
It doesn't matter because they were never gonna vote yes, but just for the sake of the argument: at the end of the day I think I oppose it (although of course if it's what the people wants, they should have it). I don't like the idea of national sentiment making itself relevant in this day and age.
However, I can distinctly feel a hope for a yes, partly for romantic reasons, partly because it's what Belle & Sebastian want, and mainly because I hate David Cameron so much and I want him to crash and burn.
I'm just thinking on Scotch whisky... :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 18, 2014, 05:35:31 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 18, 2014, 05:35:31 PM
Scotland, Catalonia, Palestine, etc. should be independent states if they want.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on September 18, 2014, 06:06:13 PM
Post by: CTG on September 18, 2014, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on September 18, 2014, 05:35:31 PM
Scotland, Catalonia, Palestine, etc. should be independent states if they want.
Rotoi should be a single, independent pipsqueak instead of being 3 whole teams. :D (kidding)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 18, 2014, 10:13:07 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 18, 2014, 10:13:07 PM
Remember I'm very good editing pictures :P
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on September 19, 2014, 06:35:08 AM
Post by: Duplode on September 19, 2014, 06:35:08 AM
Quote from: CTG on September 18, 2014, 04:01:12 PM
Do you support the independence of Scotland?
A reason of dubious relevance to cheer the "No" is that the Union is a such a major historical oddity at this day and age, and I like historical oddities.
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on September 18, 2014, 05:19:01 PM
and mainly because I hate David Cameron so much and I want him to crash and burn.
Aye.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 19, 2014, 05:21:37 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 19, 2014, 05:21:37 PM
Well not always continuing is the best way. Think about Renaissance or French Revolution. Also an union may not be a symbiosis relationship, sometimes one of them is a parasite sucking the blood of the other.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on September 24, 2014, 11:19:48 AM
Post by: Usrin on September 24, 2014, 11:19:48 AM
Quote from: CTG on September 18, 2014, 04:01:12 PM
Do you support the independence of Scotland?
(I guess they will stay in the UK.)
I support it, and I'm disappointed that "No" won. Generally I support stronger relations between the countries of Europe - which the UK refuses, as they still think that they are a big empire with no need to co-operate with others. It would be good if at least Scotland was out of this wannabe empire. Even the current, extremely bureaucratic EU is not as strongly controlled by the short-term interests of global corporates as the UK...
Btw, for us in SW Norway it would have been especially good if our neighbours over the sea were not living in a "foreign empire", but in an ordinary country, and if building economic relations towards them was as easy as towards Sweden or Denmark.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 24, 2014, 04:59:12 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 24, 2014, 04:59:12 PM
Good arguments.
By the way Usrin, you seem very critical towards UK and USA - what are your attitudes towards France and Germany?
By the way Usrin, you seem very critical towards UK and USA - what are your attitudes towards France and Germany?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 24, 2014, 09:11:44 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 24, 2014, 09:11:44 PM
Did you hear Hollande speach in UN today?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 25, 2014, 11:00:31 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 25, 2014, 11:00:31 AM
Nope.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on October 02, 2014, 05:33:30 AM
Post by: Duplode on October 02, 2014, 05:33:30 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on September 18, 2014, 05:19:01 PM
and mainly because I hate David Cameron so much and I want him to crash and burn.
http://youtu.be/0YBumQHPAeU
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 06, 2014, 05:17:43 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 06, 2014, 05:17:43 AM
Who did you vote, Dup?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on October 07, 2014, 03:06:38 AM
Post by: Duplode on October 07, 2014, 03:06:38 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on October 06, 2014, 05:17:43 AM
Who did you vote, Dup?
Eduardo Jorge, the actual Green candidate (i.e. not Marina) and, alongside Luciana Genro, one of the few to make an unambiguous stand against the "family values" moralistic grovelling in fashion these days. I didn't particularly care about the results of the first round as long as no one would reach an overall majority, ensuring a runoff. As for the runoff, I lean towards Dilma, though with zero enthusiasm. To me, re-electing her seems somewhat less worse than bringing back "Third Way" (in the 90's sense) Aécio/PSDB. In any case, take any alarmist reports you might read with a grain of salt: there is ridiculous scaremongering coming from both sides, and it will only get worse in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 07, 2014, 04:33:16 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 07, 2014, 04:33:16 AM
Quote from: Duplode on October 07, 2014, 03:06:38 AM
one of the few to make an unambiguous stand against the "family values" moralistic grovelling in fashion these days.
I noted the same. Marina Silva's popularity growed up a lot in the last months but her speech was abstract.
Quote from: Duplode on October 07, 2014, 03:06:38 AMless worse than bringing back "Third Way" (in the 90's sense) Aécio/PSDB.
We will vote president next year and I feel the same. I don't want to vote the present government candidate (whoever will be) and in the other side there is a candidate (or two) puppets of a business group + foreign interests. I'll never vote a business group candidate but I guess we need some changes. The worst part is there isn't a competent healthy opposition.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on October 07, 2014, 05:21:38 AM
Post by: Duplode on October 07, 2014, 05:21:38 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on October 07, 2014, 04:33:16 AM
Marina Silva's popularity growed up a lot in the last months but her speech was abstract.
Indeed. The lingering feeling is that there wasn't much between her and Aécio other than feel-good "new politics" handwaving and a worrying lack of clarity.
Quote from: alanrotoi on October 07, 2014, 04:33:16 AM
I'll never vote a business group candidate but I guess we need some changes. The worst part is there isn't a competent healthy opposition.
Same here. It would be great to have a credible left-of-centre alternative to PT able to gather mainstream support.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on October 08, 2014, 03:20:54 PM
Post by: zaqrack on October 08, 2014, 03:20:54 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on October 07, 2014, 04:33:16 AM
I'll never vote a business group candidate but I guess we need some changes. The worst part is there isn't a competent healthy opposition.
copypaste Hungary :)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 21, 2014, 09:16:52 PM
Post by: CTG on October 21, 2014, 09:16:52 PM
Orbán's new enemies are the internet users: the government wants 150 HUF/gigabyte tax on internet usage (that means 0.50 EUR/GB).
http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungary_to_impose_internet_levy_in_2015_tax_plans_show.28561.html
http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungary_to_impose_internet_levy_in_2015_tax_plans_show.28561.html
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on October 22, 2014, 04:23:02 AM
Post by: zaqrack on October 22, 2014, 04:23:02 AM
this is a publicity stunt aimed to redirect attention from the fact that several Hungarians close to the government (possibly including the head of the national tax office) were banned from entering the US due to involvement in corruption.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 22, 2014, 06:18:41 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 22, 2014, 06:18:41 AM
What's the Hungarian government position about the topic "pipelines/energy/Russia/Ukraine/Europe"?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 22, 2014, 07:53:35 AM
Post by: CTG on October 22, 2014, 07:53:35 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on October 22, 2014, 06:18:41 AM
What's the Hungarian government position about the topic "pipelines/energy/Russia/Ukraine/Europe"?
Just guess from that... Orbán is Putin's slave, which is quite bizarre since Fidesz is a "right wing party" (when they were in opposition, they protested against everything related to Russia - and still barking about "communist sins"), while Putin is clearly a post-communist president/dictator.
http://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2014/03/13/a-brief-summary-of-the-russian-hungarian-agreement-on-the-paks-nuclear-power-plant/
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 22, 2014, 08:01:05 AM
Post by: CTG on October 22, 2014, 08:01:05 AM
Quote from: zaqrack on October 22, 2014, 04:23:02 AM
this is a publicity stunt aimed to redirect attention from the fact that several Hungarians close to the government (possibly including the head of the national tax office) were banned from entering the US due to involvement in corruption.
Still, it's a dirty move. My daily data transfer is about 500-1000 MB (no IPTV, no Torrent, just from browsing the web and watching YouTube videos).
I don't really care about the corruption case (the whole issue is not surprising at all), since it's well-known that our country is a fuckin' corrupt one. Not only the politicians, not only the state system, but even civilians like doctors with their parasolvency or policemen, teachers, etc. Only the number of zeros in the amount of bribe money is different in their case.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 22, 2014, 09:44:03 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 22, 2014, 09:44:03 AM
Does Hungary import energy from Russia?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 22, 2014, 10:56:00 AM
Post by: CTG on October 22, 2014, 10:56:00 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on October 22, 2014, 09:44:03 AM
Does Hungary import energy from Russia?
Yes, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panrusg%C3%A1z
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 22, 2014, 06:15:43 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 22, 2014, 06:15:43 PM
Oops, now I realize why the government is allied with Russia. Putin has their balls in his hands :O
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 22, 2014, 07:21:19 PM
Post by: CTG on October 22, 2014, 07:21:19 PM
At least he's a powerful leader. Obama, Merkel and Brown are not.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 23, 2014, 01:10:14 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 23, 2014, 01:10:14 AM
Brown? ???
By the way, your comment helps me understand why Órban Viktor is so popular :-\
By the way, your comment helps me understand why Órban Viktor is so popular :-\
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 23, 2014, 09:01:44 AM
Post by: CTG on October 23, 2014, 09:01:44 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on October 23, 2014, 01:10:14 AM
By the way, your comment helps me understand why Órban Viktor is so popular :-\
???
I'm not a Fidesz supporter - never was and never will be. I'm also quite disgusted by the general attitude of Hungarian people.
Leader of the National Tax and Customs Administration of Hungary (NTCA) is also involved in a serious corruption issue. It's quite funny from somebody being responsible for tax and anti-corruption cases...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 23, 2014, 01:16:15 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 23, 2014, 01:16:15 PM
It's just strange that you think of "being a strong leader" as a positive thing, even in a case like Putin who is going off the rails and steering Russia and Europe into crisis - all to the benefit of their geopolitical opponent, USA.
Leaders need to serve the people, not themselves. They need to be just the central point and the representative of a system set up to secure that what is being decided reflects the pooled knowledge of the country and the will of the people.
Leaders need to serve the people, not themselves. They need to be just the central point and the representative of a system set up to secure that what is being decided reflects the pooled knowledge of the country and the will of the people.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 23, 2014, 01:54:31 PM
Post by: CTG on October 23, 2014, 01:54:31 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on October 23, 2014, 01:16:15 PM
It's just strange that you think of "being a strong leader" as a positive thing, even in a case like Putin who is going off the rails and steering Russia and Europe into crisis - all to the benefit of their geopolitical opponent, USA.
Leaders need to serve the people, not themselves. They need to be just the central point and the representative of a system set up to secure that what is being decided reflects the pooled knowledge of the country and the will of the people.
Maybe you misunderstood what I said. Real Madrid is a strong team, but still, I hate it. Admitting that Putin's power demonstration is quite effective against the imponent Western leaders does not mean that I like what he did.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 23, 2014, 04:01:29 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 23, 2014, 04:01:29 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on October 23, 2014, 01:16:15 PM
It's just strange that you think of "being a strong leader" as a positive thing, even in a case like Putin who is going off the rails and steering Russia and Europe into crisis
You're right but I hope you don't think Europe is a victim on this situation. The whole European civilization was built sucking blood from others and still it's like that. Don't pretend to be so naive.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2014, 11:35:55 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 24, 2014, 11:35:55 AM
Well, yes, I guess. I only mean that in this situation, USA started the trouble in Ukraine and the result is mutual sanctions which hurt the Russian and the European economy, but not the American.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 24, 2014, 03:53:52 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 24, 2014, 03:53:52 PM
That's a good ally!
Sometimes I read news and articles from rt.com (russian news site). It's like CNN a short minded point of view but change the word "USA" to "Russia". Also sometimes they publish articles about UFO's. It's funny and most of times unobjective :D
Sometimes I read news and articles from rt.com (russian news site). It's like CNN a short minded point of view but change the word "USA" to "Russia". Also sometimes they publish articles about UFO's. It's funny and most of times unobjective :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 24, 2014, 04:05:15 PM
Post by: CTG on October 24, 2014, 04:05:15 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on October 24, 2014, 03:53:52 PM
Also sometimes they publish articles about UFO's.
OFF:
There are unidentified flying objects (which are not equal to "ufonauts") - most/all of them are unidentified just because they are not enough interesting to get identified (flashes from natural phenomena, meteorites, satellites, etc). The alien story is of course a fairy tale. I don't say there are no other intelligent species with higher level of technical progress in this universe, but why would they come here - just to annoy some brainwashed peasants with <80 IQ? :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 25, 2014, 12:51:02 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 25, 2014, 12:51:02 AM
Also, why they should conceive a civilization based in material technology like us?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on October 29, 2014, 07:06:35 PM
Post by: zaqrack on October 29, 2014, 07:06:35 PM
Hopefully something has finally started...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/29/budapest-viktor-orban-democracy-edge-hungary
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/29/budapest-viktor-orban-democracy-edge-hungary
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 29, 2014, 07:35:51 PM
Post by: CTG on October 29, 2014, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: zaqrack on October 29, 2014, 07:06:35 PM
Hopefully something has finally started...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/29/budapest-viktor-orban-democracy-edge-hungary
Don't be naive, nothing will change.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 29, 2014, 07:51:12 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 29, 2014, 07:51:12 PM
When is the next election?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on October 29, 2014, 08:54:06 PM
Post by: CTG on October 29, 2014, 08:54:06 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on October 29, 2014, 07:51:12 PM
When is the next election?
4 years...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 29, 2014, 11:42:15 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 29, 2014, 11:42:15 PM
Hungary has become a third world country. Some of those protesters on the picture will have to die violently before anything changes.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 29, 2014, 11:53:54 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 29, 2014, 11:53:54 PM
I wonder why Hungary has not been suspended from the EU. It would be the obvious thing to do. Maybe it's a case of general EU credibility being preferred over actually taking action against the Orban regime.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on October 30, 2014, 02:05:15 AM
Post by: zaqrack on October 30, 2014, 02:05:15 AM
That would be extreme and contra-productive.Unfortunately an increasingly significant percentage of the population is already against the EU due to the propaganda of FIDESZ and also the lack of development of the country (though that is an issue caused by corruption and state capture).
Exclusion from the EU would also risk Hungary leaning even more towards Russia regardless of the leadership (note the formerly ruling oppoisiton party has also close ties to Putin even though they are pro-EU, so does the far-right and they are anti-EU even more than Orban). The EU can't afford this to happen. Not to mention that it would also make the possibility of organizing another Stunts meeting even harder than it is now!
The solution is much more simple: EU membership must be kept active, but all payments from the EU must be suspended. I am sure a proper reason can be found easily. The Orban regime is maintaining the perceived growth and development of the country from the funding received from the EU. WIthout money they either have to stop development or further raise taxes - and we see where that leads.
And yes, something will happen. It may take 1-2 years but this is the beginning of something major. Look, even I am writing an analysis of the political situation and will join the masses when I will be back to Budapest.
Exclusion from the EU would also risk Hungary leaning even more towards Russia regardless of the leadership (note the formerly ruling oppoisiton party has also close ties to Putin even though they are pro-EU, so does the far-right and they are anti-EU even more than Orban). The EU can't afford this to happen. Not to mention that it would also make the possibility of organizing another Stunts meeting even harder than it is now!
The solution is much more simple: EU membership must be kept active, but all payments from the EU must be suspended. I am sure a proper reason can be found easily. The Orban regime is maintaining the perceived growth and development of the country from the funding received from the EU. WIthout money they either have to stop development or further raise taxes - and we see where that leads.
And yes, something will happen. It may take 1-2 years but this is the beginning of something major. Look, even I am writing an analysis of the political situation and will join the masses when I will be back to Budapest.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 30, 2014, 10:18:44 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 30, 2014, 10:18:44 AM
You're right, that would be a much better solution.
I fear that Orban will laugh at these protests until they really start attacking government facilities in large numbers, at which time he will have to either concede a lot or do a Tian An Men.
I fear that Orban will laugh at these protests until they really start attacking government facilities in large numbers, at which time he will have to either concede a lot or do a Tian An Men.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 27, 2014, 08:56:45 AM
Post by: CTG on November 27, 2014, 08:56:45 AM
Viktor Orbán visited Lithuania without invitation. The prime minister and the president of LTU did not welcome him, what's more, they ignored to communicate with him, because he's an agressive slave of Putin (told in a bit more polite way, but with this meaning).
Meanwhile in Hungary, everybody can feel that all the three elections are over - right after the last one, serious restrictions and tax changes were announced by the government. Popularity of Fidesz is decreasing heavily - some of the repeated elections in certain districts showed that.
Györ-Bácsa: the local authority election was won by an independent, by 1 (!!!) vote difference ahead of Fidesz applicant (1196-1195). Of course the votes were re-calculated and of course they found that some of the independent applicant's votes are "invalid" (more than one "X" on the voting card, the cheapest solution to fake invalid votes by the corrupt reviewers). The court decided to repeat the elections in the certain small part of that district - the independent guy won by a huge difference at the repeated elections (425-201; the original result was 229-191 there).
Other parts of the country (some examples):
- Újpest (4th district of Budapest): parliament elections, MSZP won (just like half year ago)
- Ózd: local authority elections, Jobbik won with a huge difference (10299-5076; the original result was 4214-4148 one month earlier)
- Szekszárd: LMP almost turned the result of the local authority elections, improving a lot in one month (in all the questionable voting districts).
As you can see, participation rates increased - clearly against Fidesz - the restrictions opened up the eyes of the voters (too bad, they weren't forehanded enough). An average Hungarian is thinking and voting with his/her wallet and not with brain... ::)
Meanwhile in Hungary, everybody can feel that all the three elections are over - right after the last one, serious restrictions and tax changes were announced by the government. Popularity of Fidesz is decreasing heavily - some of the repeated elections in certain districts showed that.
Györ-Bácsa: the local authority election was won by an independent, by 1 (!!!) vote difference ahead of Fidesz applicant (1196-1195). Of course the votes were re-calculated and of course they found that some of the independent applicant's votes are "invalid" (more than one "X" on the voting card, the cheapest solution to fake invalid votes by the corrupt reviewers). The court decided to repeat the elections in the certain small part of that district - the independent guy won by a huge difference at the repeated elections (425-201; the original result was 229-191 there).
Other parts of the country (some examples):
- Újpest (4th district of Budapest): parliament elections, MSZP won (just like half year ago)
- Ózd: local authority elections, Jobbik won with a huge difference (10299-5076; the original result was 4214-4148 one month earlier)
- Szekszárd: LMP almost turned the result of the local authority elections, improving a lot in one month (in all the questionable voting districts).
As you can see, participation rates increased - clearly against Fidesz - the restrictions opened up the eyes of the voters (too bad, they weren't forehanded enough). An average Hungarian is thinking and voting with his/her wallet and not with brain... ::)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on December 20, 2014, 09:02:24 PM
Post by: CTG on December 20, 2014, 09:02:24 PM
Crisis in Argentina?
(http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/548afb9b6bb3f7b024cd3bf1-777-472/screen%20shot%202014-12-12%20at%209.28.19%20am.png)
(http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/548afb9b6bb3f7b024cd3bf1-777-472/screen%20shot%202014-12-12%20at%209.28.19%20am.png)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on December 21, 2014, 05:31:40 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on December 21, 2014, 05:31:40 AM
GDP isn't a credible estimation. Here we aren't in heaven but it's far from a crisis.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 07, 2015, 10:49:59 PM
Post by: CTG on February 07, 2015, 10:49:59 PM
Quite an active month in Hungary: Merkel visited Budapest a few days ago, Putin will come in a week.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 08, 2015, 09:44:24 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 08, 2015, 09:44:24 AM
Nazis and communists in a week? :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 08, 2015, 05:41:54 PM
Post by: CTG on February 08, 2015, 05:41:54 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 08, 2015, 09:44:24 AM
Nazis and communists in a week? :D
Merkel is just a clumsy and badly dressed old woman who should have stayed at the field of physics instead of acting like a powerless politician. She's a christian democratic chancellor, but her attitude is way too liberal for my taste.
On the other hand, Putin is not communist at all. He's just a strong hand dictator in a giant surreal empire, without real opposition. Western Europe can't like or respect him - but they are afraid of his power.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 08, 2015, 06:37:32 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 08, 2015, 06:37:32 PM
Your posts are always a study in sexist discourse.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 08, 2015, 06:46:27 PM
Post by: CTG on February 08, 2015, 06:46:27 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on February 08, 2015, 06:37:32 PM
Your posts are always a study in sexist discourse.
Women are genetically weak leaders. It's not sexism, just biology. Male and female brain is working differently, therefore they have different strenghts and weaknesses.
I also have a female boss: she's one of the greatest and the most respected experts in this field (in Hungary) - but she absolutely lacks leading skills or sense to HR policy.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 08, 2015, 07:30:41 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 08, 2015, 07:30:41 PM
My boss is a man, a very respected expert in reservoir mechanics and oil industry, but he also lacks leadership and organizing skills.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 08, 2015, 08:05:11 PM
Post by: CTG on February 08, 2015, 08:05:11 PM
Quote from: Akoss Poo on February 08, 2015, 07:30:41 PM
My boss is a man, a very respected expert in reservoir mechanics and oil industry, but he also lacks leadership and organizing skills.
Well, I did not say "all men are good leaders". When I got a team for a certain project at my former workplace, I was a crappy coordinator (gave no real tasks to the others because I thought they won't be able to solve it - therefore I completed 95% of the project alone).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 08, 2015, 08:44:00 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 08, 2015, 08:44:00 PM
Quote from: CTG on February 08, 2015, 08:05:11 PM
When I got a team
Quote from: CTG on February 08, 2015, 08:05:11 PM
I completed 95% of the project alone.
Deja vu? :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 08, 2015, 08:55:16 PM
Post by: CTG on February 08, 2015, 08:55:16 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 08, 2015, 08:44:00 PMQuote from: CTG on February 08, 2015, 08:05:11 PM
When I got a teamQuote from: CTG on February 08, 2015, 08:05:11 PM
I completed 95% of the project alone.
Deja vu? :D
I don't trust in other people's skills, but I want to make a quality work - so I keep everything for myself. Maybe a bit egoistic, but still the best solution in most of the cases. And the exhausting one...
(Luckily I'm not there anymore.)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 08, 2015, 09:25:16 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 08, 2015, 09:25:16 PM
Yes, this month so far :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 08, 2015, 09:40:52 PM
Post by: CTG on February 08, 2015, 09:40:52 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 08, 2015, 09:25:16 PM
Yes, this month so far :D
???
I left that department almost 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on February 09, 2015, 01:49:15 AM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on February 09, 2015, 01:49:15 AM
http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks/banking-giant-hsbc-sheltered-murky-cash-linked-dictators-and-arms-dealers (http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks/banking-giant-hsbc-sheltered-murky-cash-linked-dictators-and-arms-dealers)
http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks/whistleblower-thief-hero-introducing-source-data-shook-hsbc (http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks/whistleblower-thief-hero-introducing-source-data-shook-hsbc)
http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks (http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks)
http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks/whistleblower-thief-hero-introducing-source-data-shook-hsbc (http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks/whistleblower-thief-hero-introducing-source-data-shook-hsbc)
http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks (http://www.icij.org/project/swiss-leaks)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on February 09, 2015, 09:22:48 AM
Post by: zaqrack on February 09, 2015, 09:22:48 AM
Quote from: CTG on February 08, 2015, 06:46:27 PM
Women are genetically weak leaders. It's not sexism, just biology. Male and female brain is working differently, therefore they have different strenghts and weaknesses.
The boss I respect the most and have learned the most from in terms of leadership and organizational skills was a women.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on February 09, 2015, 09:24:54 AM
Post by: zaqrack on February 09, 2015, 09:24:54 AM
Quote from: CTG on February 08, 2015, 08:05:11 PM
Well, I did not say "all men are good leaders". When I got a team for a certain project at my former workplace, I was a crappy coordinator (gave no real tasks to the others because I thought they won't be able to solve it - therefore I completed 95% of the project alone).
This is a typical mistake, overcoming this weakness is step one of becoming a good leader. On the other hand, you must not fall to the other extreme and delegating all work to your team while you are doing nothing. I have done both mistakes and have learned from them. :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 09, 2015, 10:16:49 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 09, 2015, 10:16:49 AM
Quote from: CTG on February 08, 2015, 06:46:27 PMQuote from: BonzaiJoe on February 08, 2015, 06:37:32 PM
Your posts are always a study in sexist discourse.
Women are genetically weak leaders. It's not sexism, just biology. Male and female brain is working differently, therefore they have different strenghts and weaknesses.
I also have a female boss: she's one of the greatest and the most respected experts in this field (in Hungary) - but she absolutely lacks leading skills or sense to HR policy.
That's bullshit, and you know it is because there's zero research to prove that this is caused by biological sex differences, and there are countless exceptions to the general rule that more men excel at high-profile leadership.
But that was not what I was referring to. What I meant was that you characterized Merkel by her appearance and specifically the way she's dressed. You would never draw attention to how a white male head of state is dressed. It's because of that kind of preconception that women are unable to gain recognition for their accomplishments in fields like politics. Because men like you focus on how they dress instead.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 09, 2015, 12:55:54 PM
Post by: CTG on February 09, 2015, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: zaqrack on February 09, 2015, 09:24:54 AMQuote from: CTG on February 08, 2015, 08:05:11 PM
Well, I did not say "all men are good leaders". When I got a team for a certain project at my former workplace, I was a crappy coordinator (gave no real tasks to the others because I thought they won't be able to solve it - therefore I completed 95% of the project alone).
This is a typical mistake, overcoming this weakness is step one of becoming a good leader.
Unless your workmates are too dumb to solve the problem.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 09, 2015, 12:59:31 PM
Post by: CTG on February 09, 2015, 12:59:31 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on February 09, 2015, 10:16:49 AM
But that was not what I was referring to. What I meant was that you characterized Merkel by her appearance and specifically the way she's dressed. You would never draw attention to how a white male head of state is dressed. It's because of that kind of preconception that women are unable to gain recognition for their accomplishments in fields like politics. Because men like you focus on how they dress instead.
Have you read the second part of my message? The dressing part was just a comment. I find her a weak, too liberal leader - even if she's a right-wing policy maker. As for me, such a great and strong country should not allow to get diluted by "colorful" invaders. Yeah, I'm not only sexist, but racist too.
Okay, let's overcome my obvious hate against n*ggers, gypsies, etc. Do you think Merkel is a strong leader? She's the head of the strongest (?) European economy, but still, she can't make a pressure on Russia or even on renitent EU members (like Hungary). Yes, it stands for any Western European leaders. They can warn you endlessly, but they won't ever act. Remember, how many times did Hungary infringe the general rules and principles of EU. What was the punishment? Warning, warning, warning... nothing else. That's a sign of weakness.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 09, 2015, 02:08:37 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 09, 2015, 02:08:37 PM
Merkel is not weak but Putin/Russia is too strong for her and the economical relationship between Europe and Russia takes Russia to a better place to negociate. Europa is nothing without "daddy" USA against Russia. That's why NATO exists.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 09, 2015, 02:33:05 PM
Post by: CTG on February 09, 2015, 02:33:05 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 09, 2015, 02:08:37 PM
Merkel is not weak but Putin/Russia is too strong for her and the economical relationship between Europe and Russia takes Russia to a better place to negociate. Europa is nothing without "daddy" USA against Russia. That's why NATO exists.
Okay, you answered the EU vs Russia question. Now try to find out something for Western Europe vs renitent eastern EU countries. Even such a little and crappy country (Orbanistan) can behave unashamedly without real consequences. EU would lose nothing with excluding Hungary from the members, but still, they don't act.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 09, 2015, 04:52:15 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 09, 2015, 04:52:15 PM
It's just a guess, but Europe took advantage expanding it's influence to the east when USSR fall in early 90's. That advance stopped in Ukraine. There is a "battle" between Russia and Europe for Ukraine domination. Taking down elected governments, putting puppets and revolutions. Both Europe and Russia are fighting for Ukraine and now the pro Russian in Donetsk.
It's easy and obvious that they (the Ukrainian pro Russian in Donetsk) are just another fact that Russia has in the negotiations with EU. You can see it when at the beginning of the protests EU and Russian authorities met for negotiate the situation but none from the separatists that should be more interested in their own destiny.
Now Europe found a stronger Russia. Just also remember these facts from the last three years:
- USA wants to invade Syria because chemical weapons (remember Syria is an historical ally for Russia)
- Russia avoided it and won with diplomacy. They destroyed their arsenal.
- only few months later suddenly ISIS has a lot of power and is a menace for Uncle Sam. Then USA finally put a feet on Syria.
- In Ukraine the pro Russian president was taken down and a pro Europe is up.
- Russia occupied Crimea. Donetsk and other regions from Ukraine wants to join Russia or to be independent States.
- The Oil and Gas from Russia to Europe goes mostly trough pipelines in Ukraine. Russia as "punish" to Europe and to bow down Ukrainian government will (in fact EU will) raised the costs then indirectly it raises for Europe too.
- USA and EU made some soft sanctions to Russia then they attacked harder letting Oil price get a lot lower (Oil and Gas are main export products and income for Russia).
- Putin announced a crisis but only for two years.
It's easy and obvious that they (the Ukrainian pro Russian in Donetsk) are just another fact that Russia has in the negotiations with EU. You can see it when at the beginning of the protests EU and Russian authorities met for negotiate the situation but none from the separatists that should be more interested in their own destiny.
Now Europe found a stronger Russia. Just also remember these facts from the last three years:
- USA wants to invade Syria because chemical weapons (remember Syria is an historical ally for Russia)
- Russia avoided it and won with diplomacy. They destroyed their arsenal.
- only few months later suddenly ISIS has a lot of power and is a menace for Uncle Sam. Then USA finally put a feet on Syria.
- In Ukraine the pro Russian president was taken down and a pro Europe is up.
- Russia occupied Crimea. Donetsk and other regions from Ukraine wants to join Russia or to be independent States.
- The Oil and Gas from Russia to Europe goes mostly trough pipelines in Ukraine. Russia as "punish" to Europe and to bow down Ukrainian government will (in fact EU will) raised the costs then indirectly it raises for Europe too.
- USA and EU made some soft sanctions to Russia then they attacked harder letting Oil price get a lot lower (Oil and Gas are main export products and income for Russia).
- Putin announced a crisis but only for two years.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on February 09, 2015, 04:52:21 PM
Post by: zaqrack on February 09, 2015, 04:52:21 PM
Quote from: CTG on February 09, 2015, 02:33:05 PMQuote from: alanrotoi on February 09, 2015, 02:08:37 PM
Merkel is not weak but Putin/Russia is too strong for her and the economical relationship between Europe and Russia takes Russia to a better place to negociate. Europa is nothing without "daddy" USA against Russia. That's why NATO exists.
Okay, you answered the EU vs Russia question. Now try to find out something for Western Europe vs renitent eastern EU countries. Even such a little and crappy country (Orbanistan) can behave unashamedly without real consequences. EU would lose nothing with excluding Hungary from the members, but still, they don't act.
Because growing the size of the EU is their only chance to grow the potential of the EU being a first-row player in world politics, to change the situation that is currently well described in Rotoi's message. This is only possible through attracting additional countries to join. Unfortunately Orban knows this and plays this too well.
By the way I don't think it is possible to "fire" an EU member state but I'd have to double check the EU constitution.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 10, 2015, 02:18:17 PM
Post by: CTG on February 10, 2015, 02:18:17 PM
Quote from: zaqrack on February 09, 2015, 04:52:21 PM
By the way I don't think it is possible to "fire" an EU member state but I'd have to double check the EU constitution.
Okay, there's no way to exclude a country - but they can be suspended. Or suspending only the diplomatic contacts, just like it happened to Austria (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 11, 2015, 06:30:40 PM
Post by: CTG on February 11, 2015, 06:30:40 PM
Latest polls in Hungary:
21% Fidesz (populist shit)
16% Jobbik ("nazis")
11% MSZP (pensioner party)
4% DK (Gyurcsány's party)
3% LMP (liberal shit)
1-1% Együtt and PM (liberal clones)
40% doesn't want to vote
21% Fidesz (populist shit)
16% Jobbik ("nazis")
11% MSZP (pensioner party)
4% DK (Gyurcsány's party)
3% LMP (liberal shit)
1-1% Együtt and PM (liberal clones)
40% doesn't want to vote
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 11, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 11, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: CTG on February 11, 2015, 06:30:40 PM
Latest polls in Hungary:
21% Fidesz (populist shit)
16% Jobbik ("nazis")
11% MSZP (pensioner party)
4% DK (Gyurcsány's party)
3% LMP (liberal shit)
1-1% Együtt and PM (liberal clones)
40% doesn't want to vote
Damn, the same situation was here in 2003. We were disappointed about the politicians then the winner had 23% and the "voto en blanco" sorry I don't know how to say it was very high.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 11, 2015, 07:43:04 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 11, 2015, 07:43:04 PM
"Orbán Viktor is a sperm!"
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21642647-countrys-biggest-media-mogul-turns-against-viktor-orban-no-uncertain-terms-how-cuss
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21642647-countrys-biggest-media-mogul-turns-against-viktor-orban-no-uncertain-terms-how-cuss
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 12, 2015, 06:32:45 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 12, 2015, 06:32:45 PM
BJ could you tell something about current politics in Danmark? Elections, dominating wing, what people think about muslim before and after Charlie Hebdo, etc...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 01:21:57 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 01:21:57 AM
Sure. The Charlie Hebdo thing only seems to have pushed a development that was already happening: racism becoming more and more mainstream. The original nationalist/racist party - Dansk Folkeparti ("Danish People's Party") - has grown ever since its inception in 1995 and has now risen to become the same size as the two traditionally biggest parties: the Social Democratic party and the Venstre ("The Liberal Party" - center-right liberal, not a party I would ever vote for). More importantly, both of the latter parties buy into Dansk Folkeparti's discourse, trying to match them in their hate for other cultures. These three parties control about 65% of the vote in opinion polls at the moment. They are all populist, but in different ways. Dansk Folkeparti is trying to sell an unrealistic dream about Denmark "like in the old days" without all the trouble caused by immigrants. They're not as extreme as Jobbìk, but they probably would be if that was politically viable in Denmark. The other two parties simple say whatever their spin doctors recommend they say, which usually means they don't have any particularly strong stances on anything.
Why people vote for any of these parties is beyond my understanding. The current government is center-left, consisting of the Social Democratic Party and Radikale Venstre ("The Social Liberal Party", which I used to vote and even campaign for but probably won't next time). They've been carrying out quite neo-liberalist economic austerity politics and only leaning left on the softer issues. As a consequence of this, the extreme left-wing party (Enhedslisten - "Red-Green Alliance") has seen a significant rise in support since 2009 but still only controls 10% of the vote (compare this to 2,1% at the 2007 election).
There is a big schism between the political climate in the city centres here, especially Copenhagen, and the countryside. Dansk Folkeparti harvests very few votes from inner Copenhagen and Radikale Venstre and Enhedslisten get very few votes from western Jutland.
Everyone agrees the current government is doomed. The right wing bloc (Venstre, Dansk Folkeparti, the Conservative Party and the USA style libertarian "Liberal Alliance") will earn a massive win at this year's election. These are sad times.
There is an interesting new center-left party starting up which acknowledges the end of growth economy. It's not very likely that it will get sufficient support to win seats in the parliament though.
Latest opinion poll:
Socialdemokraterne: 22,9%
Radikale Venstre: 7,1%
SF: 6,7%
Enhedslisten: 8,5%
------
Venstre: 23,6%
Dansk Folkeparti: 21,2%
Liberal Alliance: 5,0%
Det Konservative Folkeparti: 4,4%
(Kristendemokraterne: 0,6%)
Why people vote for any of these parties is beyond my understanding. The current government is center-left, consisting of the Social Democratic Party and Radikale Venstre ("The Social Liberal Party", which I used to vote and even campaign for but probably won't next time). They've been carrying out quite neo-liberalist economic austerity politics and only leaning left on the softer issues. As a consequence of this, the extreme left-wing party (Enhedslisten - "Red-Green Alliance") has seen a significant rise in support since 2009 but still only controls 10% of the vote (compare this to 2,1% at the 2007 election).
There is a big schism between the political climate in the city centres here, especially Copenhagen, and the countryside. Dansk Folkeparti harvests very few votes from inner Copenhagen and Radikale Venstre and Enhedslisten get very few votes from western Jutland.
Everyone agrees the current government is doomed. The right wing bloc (Venstre, Dansk Folkeparti, the Conservative Party and the USA style libertarian "Liberal Alliance") will earn a massive win at this year's election. These are sad times.
There is an interesting new center-left party starting up which acknowledges the end of growth economy. It's not very likely that it will get sufficient support to win seats in the parliament though.
Latest opinion poll:
Socialdemokraterne: 22,9%
Radikale Venstre: 7,1%
SF: 6,7%
Enhedslisten: 8,5%
------
Venstre: 23,6%
Dansk Folkeparti: 21,2%
Liberal Alliance: 5,0%
Det Konservative Folkeparti: 4,4%
(Kristendemokraterne: 0,6%)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 11:04:17 AM
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 11:04:17 AM
Dansk Folkeparti seems to be a reasonable choice. ::)
(However, the immigrant problem is not that serious in Hungary - yet. But who needs immigrants when we have ~10-15% gypsies? :D)
(However, the immigrant problem is not that serious in Hungary - yet. But who needs immigrants when we have ~10-15% gypsies? :D)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 11:31:46 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 11:31:46 AM
Everyone in Denmark with a low IQ and no education agrees with you.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 11:32:45 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 11:32:45 AM
The immigrant problem is not serious in Denmark either.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 12:38:03 PM
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 11:31:46 AM
Everyone in Denmark with a low IQ and no education agrees with you.
Actually the low IQ masses can decide an election. Unfortunately the Hungarian sheeps are Fidesz fans.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 12:46:08 PM
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 12:46:08 PM
Btw why does it bother you if somebody wants to have a peaceful life without poor immigrants/minorities? The gypsy problem is a damned crucial question in Hungary (as summarized by Usrin earlier). E.g. in practice, most of the crimes (especially connected with violence) can be connected to gypsies. Most people are simply afraid of them. So, is it really a problem if I don't want them to be integrated or I refuse to live in the same house/street/city/country with them? Why should I (the normal inhabitant, paying taxes, following the law, etc.) tolerate to their deviant, agressive behaviour? They are just parasitizing from the state benefits - payed from our taxes.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on February 13, 2015, 01:06:02 PM
Post by: zaqrack on February 13, 2015, 01:06:02 PM
A good summary on the fall of the relative independency of Budapest maintained until last fall, with English susbitles and cool animations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJigdHGrTS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJigdHGrTS4
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 01:15:58 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 01:15:58 PM
Quote from: CTG on February 13, 2015, 12:46:08 PM
Btw why does it bother you if somebody wants to have a peaceful life without poor immigrants/minorities? The gypsy problem is a damned crucial question in Hungary (as summarized by Usrin earlier). E.g. in practice, most of the crimes (especially connected with violence) can be connected to gypsies. Most people are simply afraid of them. So, is it really a problem if I don't want them to be integrated or I refuse to live in the same house/street/city/country with them? Why should I (the normal inhabitant, paying taxes, following the law, etc.) tolerate to their deviant, agressive behaviour? They are just parasitizing from the state benefits - payed from our taxes.
Thank you for a stylish delivery of the classic racist juxtaposition.
In the first part of your post, you talk about "immigrants/minorities", and then in the last part, it's "deviant, agressive behaviour". It's the guilt by association I mainly have a problem with. People who share ethnic characteristics with criminals have to take on the blame for the criminals' actions. This only ever happens with minorities because they are viewed from the outside in all public discourse and the dominant group defines itself by its difference to the minorities. You could come to some other country and quickly become part of the "Magyar problem" if some of your countrymen committed crimes. You'd no longer be in a position of power. I guess the position of power can be used to absolve oneself of responsibility by making another group "dirty" and thereby allowing oneself to use one's membership of one's own group as an argument for one's own purity.
It bothers me because, in Denmark, Hungary and everywhere else, people get punished for the crimes of others. This is not fair. Even if it's just casual hate like yours, it's a problem. In order to live a proper life and to function in a society, you need other people. If everyone judges you because of your ethnicity and not your actions, you have no chance to succeed in society, so you can only turn to your own minority group, and so follows more segregation and antipathy, when everyone could just be working together instead.
Nobody should tolerate anyone's aggressive behaviour or cheating with benefits.
Everyone should tolerate deviant behaviour because you and everyone else should be free to do what you want.
In Denmark, the situation also bothers me because of its economic implications. Dansk Folkeparti wants to cut down on all international cooperations, drastically limiting our business possibilites, thereby making us poorer in the long run.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 01:19:35 PM
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 01:19:35 PM
Let me tell you my experience from a little segment of everyday life in Hungary. We are searching for a house for ages, watching at least 30 candidates so far. But we had only one or two exceptional cases when the answer for "How is the neighbourhood? / Is it a calm place?" did not start with "There are no/only a few gypsies."
The last time we found a cute little house. Although it was a bit old builing, everything looked fine. But when we left the house to check the garden, we heard a terrible loud hardstyle music with incredible subwoofer performance. We walked around a few streets, finding the source: a huge house in terrible condition, with pulled down shutters and with two old tuned cars in the backyard. It was obvious that gypsies are living there, but to ensure about that, we asked one of their neighbours (a ~75-80 years old lady) whether this terrible noise is a usual thing or just a rare occasion. She told us (with some fear in her voice) that a huge gypsy family lives in that house, they are always that loud (no matter which day or which part of the day), and since they moved there, the number of burglaries and street robberies in the evenings increased a lot in the neighbouring streets. No wonder, since they are there, the neighbourhood is trying to escape - we have seen several houses for sale within 200 meters.
Unfortunately this is not a unique case...
The last time we found a cute little house. Although it was a bit old builing, everything looked fine. But when we left the house to check the garden, we heard a terrible loud hardstyle music with incredible subwoofer performance. We walked around a few streets, finding the source: a huge house in terrible condition, with pulled down shutters and with two old tuned cars in the backyard. It was obvious that gypsies are living there, but to ensure about that, we asked one of their neighbours (a ~75-80 years old lady) whether this terrible noise is a usual thing or just a rare occasion. She told us (with some fear in her voice) that a huge gypsy family lives in that house, they are always that loud (no matter which day or which part of the day), and since they moved there, the number of burglaries and street robberies in the evenings increased a lot in the neighbouring streets. No wonder, since they are there, the neighbourhood is trying to escape - we have seen several houses for sale within 200 meters.
Unfortunately this is not a unique case...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 01:21:50 PM
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 01:21:50 PM
As for me, deviants should not be tolerated. Normal people have the right to leave a normal life.
(And yes, I would not spill a teardrop if one day they disappear in a mass grave. Fúckin' racist, yes. But if the price of peace is the extinction of your enemies... well... let it be...)
(And yes, I would not spill a teardrop if one day they disappear in a mass grave. Fúckin' racist, yes. But if the price of peace is the extinction of your enemies... well... let it be...)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 02:56:46 PM
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 02:56:46 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 01:15:58 PM
Everyone should tolerate deviant behaviour because you and everyone else should be free to do what you want.
I'm also one from "everyone" and I want to have a calm and silent life. Shall I really be the one to suffer from their stupid lifestyle?
From a bit different aspect:
I guess you agree with the "live and let live" principle. As long as something does not harm this balance, smaller deviations can be tolerated.
But what do you do and think when something crosses this border, when something is disturbing your life, limits you or simply keeps you in fear? Why do you think it's okay that a loud little group embitters the majority's life? It mustn't be an ethnic group in this case. If you live in a house with 20 flats and 20 families, 19 from them are silent and law-abiding, while a single one does not care of the others (loud, dangerous, or simply does not follow the hygenic rules), is it really the best solution to tolerate? That's not me who doesn't let him leave - rather the opposite.
On the other hand, people who follow the rules deserve more rights. And normal lifestyle should enjoy priority over deviants. I don't care if they behave like that, but they should do it elsewhere - where it is tolerated (in their home country maybe).
Oh wait, gypsies have no country at all. They were driven out even from India...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 03:40:51 PM
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 03:40:51 PM
Btw BJ, have you heard about the "cable thiefs" caught by Danish police a few weeks ago? They were immigrant gypsies from Hungary. :D
It's a very often crime in Hungary: some gangs are specialized for stealing the electric cables and rails of railway, and selling it as scrap metal. No wonder, the kings of gypsies (called "vajda", something like the godfather in maffia) are usually the owners of scrap metal sites. It becomes very dangerous when they steal cables from railway/road safety equipments - you can hear about a few fatal accidents per year caused by damaged and out-of-order traffic lights (due to theft)...
It's a very often crime in Hungary: some gangs are specialized for stealing the electric cables and rails of railway, and selling it as scrap metal. No wonder, the kings of gypsies (called "vajda", something like the godfather in maffia) are usually the owners of scrap metal sites. It becomes very dangerous when they steal cables from railway/road safety equipments - you can hear about a few fatal accidents per year caused by damaged and out-of-order traffic lights (due to theft)...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on February 13, 2015, 04:23:45 PM
Post by: zaqrack on February 13, 2015, 04:23:45 PM
Quote from: CTG on February 13, 2015, 01:21:50 PM
As for me, deviants should not be tolerated. Normal people have the right to leave a normal life.
(And yes, I would not spill a teardrop if one day they disappear in a mass grave. Fúckin' racist, yes. But if the price of peace is the extinction of your enemies... well... let it be...)
You are pretty deviant yourself. Yet others tolerate you - similar to most people here on the forum.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 04:28:54 PM
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 04:28:54 PM
Quote from: zaqrack on February 13, 2015, 04:23:45 PMQuote from: CTG on February 13, 2015, 01:21:50 PM
As for me, deviants should not be tolerated. Normal people have the right to leave a normal life.
(And yes, I would not spill a teardrop if one day they disappear in a mass grave. Fúckin' racist, yes. But if the price of peace is the extinction of your enemies... well... let it be...)
You are pretty deviant yourself. Yet others tolerate you - similar to most people here on the forum.
I'm talking about REAL LIFE. When I'm offline, my image is still the "clever good guy, being polite to anyone", favourite of grannies and hopeless teenage chicks.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 13, 2015, 04:46:18 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 13, 2015, 04:46:18 PM
OK
Now, getting back to REAL LIFE and politics:
Thanks BJ for the summary! That point of view (more or less) is growing up in EU, isn't it?
It's a crisis symptom. When the life gets harder (corruption, economy, etc, etc) the first guilty found is always a minority or foreign. It's the easy way. "The other" is a psychology thematic study.
Now, getting back to REAL LIFE and politics:
Thanks BJ for the summary! That point of view (more or less) is growing up in EU, isn't it?
It's a crisis symptom. When the life gets harder (corruption, economy, etc, etc) the first guilty found is always a minority or foreign. It's the easy way. "The other" is a psychology thematic study.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 05:19:15 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: CTG on February 13, 2015, 02:56:46 PMQuote from: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 01:15:58 PM
Everyone should tolerate deviant behaviour because you and everyone else should be free to do what you want.
I'm also one from "everyone" and I want to have a calm and silent life. Shall I really be the one to suffer from their stupid lifestyle?
From a bit different aspect:
I guess you agree with the "live and let live" principle. As long as something does not harm this balance, smaller deviations can be tolerated.
But what do you do and think when something crosses this border, when something is disturbing your life, limits you or simply keeps you in fear? Why do you think it's okay that a loud little group embitters the majority's life? It mustn't be an ethnic group in this case. If you live in a house with 20 flats and 20 families, 19 from them are silent and law-abiding, while a single one does not care of the others (loud, dangerous, or simply does not follow the hygenic rules), is it really the best solution to tolerate? That's not me who doesn't let him leave - rather the opposite.
On the other hand, people who follow the rules deserve more rights. And normal lifestyle should enjoy priority over deviants. I don't care if they behave like that, but they should do it elsewhere - where it is tolerated (in their home country maybe).
Oh wait, gypsies have no country at all. They were driven out even from India...
Well, knowing these opinions, I think it's a sort of poetic justice if you get bothered a lot by the Roma because you really deserve it. But in principle, the behaviour you describe is not a case of deviance to me, but disrespect. If someone is very loud or soils other people's property or damages common property, that's not "live and let live". A building should have some house rules and it's important that different areas have different lifestyles so the loud people can live and the quiet ones can too.
People like you are way more bothered by this kind of thing because you've built up an enormous racist mental construct. It also bothers me if some immigrant guys steal my bike, but it doesn't bother me anymore than if a white guy did it. It just means I lost my bike. There's nothing else to it.
There's not much I can say to you if you want your enemies in a mass grave. I think we can all get that feeling sometimes, but to have it as a conscious opinion... well... it's because of you that we had two world wars, and if everyone else was as hateful as you, we'd have a third one in a matter of weeks. So it's a lucky break for me and for you and for everyone else that other people have opened up some more room in their hearts.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 05:23:31 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 05:23:31 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 13, 2015, 04:46:18 PM
OK
Now, getting back to REAL LIFE and politics:
Thanks BJ for the summary! That point of view (more or less) is growing up in EU, isn't it?
It's a crisis symptom. When the life gets harder (corruption, economy, etc, etc) the first guilty found is always a minority or foreign. It's the easy way. "The other" is a psychology thematic study.
I agree. It's not the first time in history this happens. Apart from Hungary, the scariest country in the EU is the United Kingdom. UK and Hungary are the new fascist front of Europe.
I wish there was more focus on the relationship between psychology and politics. Does anthropology deal with that a lot? It's a very important factor and it's almost, well, collectively suppressed :-)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 13, 2015, 05:41:10 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 13, 2015, 05:41:10 PM
What do you think about Tsipras (Greece) and "Podemos" (Spain)?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 06:28:00 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 06:28:00 PM
I hope they have a lot of success. I don't totally agree with them but I think Europe badly needs counterbalance from the left. The banking regime has gone too far. If they have a lot of success, the compromise between them and the currently right-leaning Northern European nations could be something very productive. I fear that they'll fail because they are two small drops in an ocean of big business, right-wing politicians and bureaucrats, and then this will stand as a testament of the left being unfit to govern.
But to be honest, I don't know much about the particular movements. I'm talking from a general knowledge about Europe and about politics. I think the best thing is that the advent of Golden Dawn in Greece has stopped. The people is reacting by voting Syriza instead. Hope instead of hate.
But to be honest, I don't know much about the particular movements. I'm talking from a general knowledge about Europe and about politics. I think the best thing is that the advent of Golden Dawn in Greece has stopped. The people is reacting by voting Syriza instead. Hope instead of hate.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 06:39:11 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 13, 2015, 06:39:11 PM
Rotoi and other South Americans: What do you think of Evo Morales, Rafael Correa and José Mujica?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 13, 2015, 07:42:41 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 13, 2015, 07:42:41 PM
WSM 2015 should include a trip to a gypsy populated Hungarian suburb of a town / village for the rich Western liberal pipsqueaks...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 07:50:55 PM
Post by: CTG on February 13, 2015, 07:50:55 PM
Quote from: Akoss Poo on February 13, 2015, 07:42:41 PM
WSM 2015 should include a trip to a gypsy populated Hungarian suburb of a town / village for the rich Western liberal pipsqueaks...
I have a cloudy memory about something with WSM 2006 or 2008, gypsy homeless people and Bonzai Joe. Probably I told BJ not to contact with them, because they must be dirty and ill. I was drunk for sure.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 13, 2015, 08:10:40 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 13, 2015, 08:10:40 PM
Mostly I agree with them. They are very popular in their countries but they lack of influence out of there (Correa has or had).
I respect Correa. He has a lot of diplomas and careers and masters etc. His education is enviable. He studied also in Belgium and USA for example earning honors. He's economist (he reached a public office as adviser in Economic Ministry). I mean he knows this game and its rules perfectly. Also he's too smart (damn too smart) and an expert in oratory. He's a great leader and helped a lot his country to lowering the poverty rate. His opposition isn't politic but economic. His oppositors are strong rich economic groups/media owners (just like FOX-Obama or O Globo-Dilma o or Clarin-Kirchner). I said one time I hope he was Argentine.
That's what I admire about him but of course he's a human being and a politician so I don't like the following:
- 1st of all and most important: Ecuador is still using Dollar as local currency (implanted by previous governments about 15 years ago). That's a big fail because it should be a momentary help to make a credible local currency again.
- Another flaw is that these "not so USA minioins" governments appeared in South America (Correa, Evo, Kirchner, Lula-Dilma, Chavez, Bachelet, Huamala, Lugo, Mujica) = (Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, Chile, Peru and Paraguay and Uruguay) emerged more or less at the same time. It is great because finally after 200 years we started to have a feeling of continental unity "La Patria Grande". BUT, the ancient power groups wants their privileged status again (they are still rich and powerful but of course they are also human beings and they want it all). Instead of it these new "not so USA friendly" leaders ONLY have popular support (also not traditional economic groups I guess. You can't do anything without money.) Then they have no other candidates but themselves. (except Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina but Nestor Kirchner died so they are headless).
So they only found they way staying in the chair the most they can. I don't like that. Evo cheated on Bolivia. Legally he didn't but I didn't like his move. He was democratic elected. Then he changed the Constitution so he can be re-elected but as it's a new Constitution his first mandate doesn't count. This is his third consecutive mandate but two with the new Constitution. About Correa he didn't do it but it's the same situation of "only one face".
Another thing I don't like about Correa is he let Chevron and other big oil groups to destroy and contaminate their forests. Now he fired them from Ecuador and he made an international trial but it's too late. (but hey! business are business!)
About Pepe Mujica I like what he says about philosophy, society and world order. He also did a great job in Uruguay and they are truly happy. Here in Buenos Aires is a big Uruguayan community and I only heard good words for him. Anyway Uruguay depends a lot of Brazil and mostly Argentina economy so they hate/like/need us at the same time.
They must leave their chairs I don't like "Methuselah" Governments. The power must be balanced also if I agree in most of things with them.
I have a question about these new politics in South America and I would like to know your opinion. Look at this:
I repeat I agree with most of their politics but these new politic caste leaders are suspiciously from minorities: oppressed ethnic (Evo and Humala are native american), women (Cristina Kirchner, Dilma Russef, Michelle Bachelet) and active hard fighters against military-civic dictatorships of last decades of XX century impulsed by USA Operation Condor (the Kirchner and Mujica... edit:I forgot Dilma here!) .
I mean we have a soft continental unity because the constant foreign influence but anyway we have similar history facts: Independence at the same time (15-20 years mostly), wars between us powered by UK, XX century dictatorships, back to democracy, neoliberalism indebtedness and now this. There are more facts that I don't remember right now but if you see from this point of view it seems another maneuver from a distant power.
I respect Correa. He has a lot of diplomas and careers and masters etc. His education is enviable. He studied also in Belgium and USA for example earning honors. He's economist (he reached a public office as adviser in Economic Ministry). I mean he knows this game and its rules perfectly. Also he's too smart (damn too smart) and an expert in oratory. He's a great leader and helped a lot his country to lowering the poverty rate. His opposition isn't politic but economic. His oppositors are strong rich economic groups/media owners (just like FOX-Obama or O Globo-Dilma o or Clarin-Kirchner). I said one time I hope he was Argentine.
That's what I admire about him but of course he's a human being and a politician so I don't like the following:
- 1st of all and most important: Ecuador is still using Dollar as local currency (implanted by previous governments about 15 years ago). That's a big fail because it should be a momentary help to make a credible local currency again.
- Another flaw is that these "not so USA minioins" governments appeared in South America (Correa, Evo, Kirchner, Lula-Dilma, Chavez, Bachelet, Huamala, Lugo, Mujica) = (Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, Chile, Peru and Paraguay and Uruguay) emerged more or less at the same time. It is great because finally after 200 years we started to have a feeling of continental unity "La Patria Grande". BUT, the ancient power groups wants their privileged status again (they are still rich and powerful but of course they are also human beings and they want it all). Instead of it these new "not so USA friendly" leaders ONLY have popular support (also not traditional economic groups I guess. You can't do anything without money.) Then they have no other candidates but themselves. (except Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina but Nestor Kirchner died so they are headless).
So they only found they way staying in the chair the most they can. I don't like that. Evo cheated on Bolivia. Legally he didn't but I didn't like his move. He was democratic elected. Then he changed the Constitution so he can be re-elected but as it's a new Constitution his first mandate doesn't count. This is his third consecutive mandate but two with the new Constitution. About Correa he didn't do it but it's the same situation of "only one face".
Another thing I don't like about Correa is he let Chevron and other big oil groups to destroy and contaminate their forests. Now he fired them from Ecuador and he made an international trial but it's too late. (but hey! business are business!)
About Pepe Mujica I like what he says about philosophy, society and world order. He also did a great job in Uruguay and they are truly happy. Here in Buenos Aires is a big Uruguayan community and I only heard good words for him. Anyway Uruguay depends a lot of Brazil and mostly Argentina economy so they hate/like/need us at the same time.
They must leave their chairs I don't like "Methuselah" Governments. The power must be balanced also if I agree in most of things with them.
I have a question about these new politics in South America and I would like to know your opinion. Look at this:
I repeat I agree with most of their politics but these new politic caste leaders are suspiciously from minorities: oppressed ethnic (Evo and Humala are native american), women (Cristina Kirchner, Dilma Russef, Michelle Bachelet) and active hard fighters against military-civic dictatorships of last decades of XX century impulsed by USA Operation Condor (the Kirchner and Mujica... edit:I forgot Dilma here!) .
I mean we have a soft continental unity because the constant foreign influence but anyway we have similar history facts: Independence at the same time (15-20 years mostly), wars between us powered by UK, XX century dictatorships, back to democracy, neoliberalism indebtedness and now this. There are more facts that I don't remember right now but if you see from this point of view it seems another maneuver from a distant power.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 18, 2015, 01:04:14 PM
Post by: CTG on February 18, 2015, 01:04:14 PM
The main impression of last evening's Putin-Orbán press conference: the good old Vladimir is magnitudinally smarter and more charismatic person than our own "Viktator". Somehow I felt his speech was a lot more informative than Orbán's, mentioning several certain national/business sector co-operations between Russia and Hungary. Orbán touched only some very general aspects (mainly bullshit), but did not forget to insult the opposition parties by mentioning an old contract signed by MSZP leaders (in 1996).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 18, 2015, 06:40:02 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 18, 2015, 06:40:02 PM
They should have invited Cameron and Lukashenko and had a party of the four most annoying state leaders in Europe. Of course is only since Silvio Berlusconi was ousted.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 18, 2015, 07:50:27 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 18, 2015, 07:50:27 PM
Anyway there is no doubt Russia stopped the withdrawal (since USSR fall) and is advancing once more in the international scene.
Is this good or healthy? Yes and no.
Is this good or healthy? Yes and no.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 18, 2015, 11:56:12 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 18, 2015, 11:56:12 PM
As long as they're advancing with troops: definitely no. Otherwise I guess it could be fine. Of course they have a corrupted and repressive system and massive inequality but so does China. It doesn't prevent a country from playing a positive role internationally.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 19, 2015, 12:35:14 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 19, 2015, 12:35:14 AM
Porochenko suggests an EU military presence in Ukraine. Lugansk and Donetsk are on the border with Russia. This could lead in a catastrophe. :(
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 19, 2015, 01:38:37 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 19, 2015, 01:38:37 AM
Well, there is no EU military, so that won't be a problem :P
Really I don't know what it would be best to do. It's not right that these Russians can forcibly seize land. Land belongs to those who live there. If you need to conquer it with military force, you're working for evil. But American retaliation should be avoided. And the pro-European Kiev governments of past times should probably have paid more attention to their Eastern, Russian-minded citizens.
Really I don't know what it would be best to do. It's not right that these Russians can forcibly seize land. Land belongs to those who live there. If you need to conquer it with military force, you're working for evil. But American retaliation should be avoided. And the pro-European Kiev governments of past times should probably have paid more attention to their Eastern, Russian-minded citizens.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 19, 2015, 03:32:21 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 19, 2015, 03:32:21 AM
Sorry I mean UN :)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31527414
BTW "evil" or "goodness" aren't parameters in the real world. If you want to push the concept closer to a fantasy world, then all the governments in the past, present and future "works for evil".
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31527414
BTW "evil" or "goodness" aren't parameters in the real world. If you want to push the concept closer to a fantasy world, then all the governments in the past, present and future "works for evil".
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 19, 2015, 11:38:54 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 19, 2015, 11:38:54 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 19, 2015, 03:32:21 AM
Sorry I mean UN :)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31527414
BTW "evil" or "goodness" aren't parameters in the real world. If you want to push the concept closer to a fantasy world, then all the governments in the past, present and future "works for evil".
I don't agree with that. I take my political stances based on a consistent moral framework, and I'm not the only one.
It's not objective good and evil, and of course no one in politics does something just to be evil. To me, evil means working for your own interests even when it's harmful to others. It also means adhering to abstract principles in the face of human suffering. This is why I think of the last few Israeli governments as evil. They adhere to the idea the Israel must occupy the entire "promised land" (just a story made up by the same people now conquering the land), so they inflict a lot of concrete human suffering on people who have done no wrong (just living where they were born and raised) by allowing and fencing and protectign settlements in the middle of other people's land. This is what I mean by evil.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 19, 2015, 02:51:21 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 19, 2015, 02:51:21 PM
Ok I understand but also I can't see a good move from a government in international politics since the Big Bang.
Anyway the lack of interest, ignorance, care and empathy of most of humanity (people, not politicians) is way more dangerous than a corrupt government because this is the way to act impunished making "evil".
A quick and easy example: Sometimes here you can listen critics against religious extremism from some countries and in the arguments presents as an evil and anachronistic mind Iran because is a theocratic state then that's enough to conclude they are always wrong. I agree believe or not but if you see who says this you can ask them: "Hey you're Catholic! Vatican is a theocratic state too so this argument fits to you too!"
Hypocrisy, inconsistency and apathy.
Anyway the lack of interest, ignorance, care and empathy of most of humanity (people, not politicians) is way more dangerous than a corrupt government because this is the way to act impunished making "evil".
A quick and easy example: Sometimes here you can listen critics against religious extremism from some countries and in the arguments presents as an evil and anachronistic mind Iran because is a theocratic state then that's enough to conclude they are always wrong. I agree believe or not but if you see who says this you can ask them: "Hey you're Catholic! Vatican is a theocratic state too so this argument fits to you too!"
Hypocrisy, inconsistency and apathy.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 24, 2015, 09:56:36 AM
Post by: CTG on February 24, 2015, 09:56:36 AM
Fidesz lost the magic two-thirds in the Hungarian parliament: the interim elections in Veszprém resulted in a left-wing victory, so Orbán muppets have "only" 132/199 seats from now. The two-third majority meant an absolute power, they were able to toy with the constitution and any laws.
How typical, the state television and the close-to-Fidesz commercial TV/radio stations tried to understate these news or even to stay silent about it (which sounds quite ridiculous in the Internet era :D).
How typical, the state television and the close-to-Fidesz commercial TV/radio stations tried to understate these news or even to stay silent about it (which sounds quite ridiculous in the Internet era :D).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 24, 2015, 11:02:28 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on February 24, 2015, 11:02:28 AM
"We have no more kings because Hungary
is a parliamental democracy!"
is a parliamental democracy!"
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 24, 2015, 11:11:34 AM
Post by: CTG on February 24, 2015, 11:11:34 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on February 24, 2015, 11:02:28 AM
"We have no more kings because Hungary
is a parliamental democracy!"
One of Orbán's nickname was "Cárevics" (forming a usual Slavian name from the word 'Tsar') during his first goverment period, caricaturing his lust for power. I like to call him 0th Viktor king.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 14, 2015, 07:16:58 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 14, 2015, 07:16:58 PM
I was wondering, Does Brazil ever lose a war? Empire vs Provincias Unidas = win, Triple Alianza war = win, Bolivia war = win, I don't know if WWII counts but soldiers were sent and win...
Thinking about it I'm sure you have some "military moments" against England (as every country in the planet), France (almost the same) and/or Netherlands (or it was only at colonial times?)
Thinking about it I'm sure you have some "military moments" against England (as every country in the planet), France (almost the same) and/or Netherlands (or it was only at colonial times?)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on March 14, 2015, 07:35:56 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on March 14, 2015, 07:35:56 PM
The only brazilian military lost was in Uruguay's Independece War, but the Imperial Forces are mostly german mercenaries. The Brazilian Army really born on Paraguay's War.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on March 14, 2015, 07:44:53 PM
Post by: Duplode on March 14, 2015, 07:44:53 PM
As for skirmishes with European nations, only in colonial times indeed - and not even that in the case of England, given the perennial Anglo-Portuguese alliance (Treaty of Windsor).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on March 14, 2015, 09:26:55 PM
Post by: zaqrack on March 14, 2015, 09:26:55 PM
Hungary pretty much lost all wars it ever participated in :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 14, 2015, 09:33:58 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on March 14, 2015, 09:33:58 PM
Same with Denmark. We won a few sea battles here and there but have otherwise generally spent the last 500 years getting pounded by Sweden, Germany and England and becoming smaller and smaller. The rise of the EU is fortunate for Denmark because it has stopped our country from getting smaller.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on March 15, 2015, 12:11:51 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on March 15, 2015, 12:11:51 AM
Great Britain invaded Buenos Aires twice(1806 and 1807), blocked with France the River Plate (1845) and Malvinas war (1982). So in direct military conflicts we are "winning" 3-1 :D
Indirectly they fucked up us since the beginning, with loans, external debt and taking down democratic governments to rise dictatorships.
Indirectly they fucked up us since the beginning, with loans, external debt and taking down democratic governments to rise dictatorships.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on June 24, 2015, 03:58:39 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on June 24, 2015, 03:58:39 PM
Oops seems Hungary suspends and immigration rule. Let me guess: Some EU countries wanted to open Hungary even more to the immigration crisis they have. I'm not saying you have a good or a bad government, I'm just agree with the desition to stand against desitions that may not be satisfactory to you. Also unfortunatly the immigrants most of times suffers discrimination but this is not the point here.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33244800
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33244800
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on July 07, 2015, 06:56:45 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on July 07, 2015, 06:56:45 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11052483_10207348578336351_6021533037925903588_n.jpg?oh=74828712d22f0e0417408e74371a142e&oe=56141A14&__gda__=1445069782_83b29bb37cb2f020d61253b747f35e02)
FANTASTIC hauhauahauhauahauhauahauhauahauaha!!!
FANTASTIC hauhauahauhauahauhauahauhauahauaha!!!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on August 16, 2015, 11:18:55 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on August 16, 2015, 11:18:55 AM
What's happening in Brazil? Duplode? Leo?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on August 16, 2015, 11:16:37 PM
Post by: Duplode on August 16, 2015, 11:16:37 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on August 16, 2015, 11:18:55 AM
What's happening in Brazil? Duplode? Leo?
Economic downturn + corruption scandals + a politically weak and generally adrift government => demonstrators and sectors of the opposition (*) crying "Impeachment!". That has been the default state of affairs since January, so there is nothing to be too overtly worried about (**).
(*) I'd rather say overexcited demonstrators and sectors of agitators within the opposition, but that's my own political slant, and so YMMV.
(**) Of course the three things I listed at the beginning are quite worrying. I just mean we are not at the brink of an institutional crisis or anything really serious like that.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on August 17, 2015, 04:29:32 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on August 17, 2015, 04:29:32 AM
The same in the whole continent. :(
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on August 17, 2015, 11:07:07 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on August 17, 2015, 11:07:07 AM
Okay, thank you!
I get a lot of middle-aged, Brazilian tourists at the hotel, by the way, and they are the worst at speaking English. Most of them barely know "hello". They are also quite demanding, but not rude.
I get a lot of middle-aged, Brazilian tourists at the hotel, by the way, and they are the worst at speaking English. Most of them barely know "hello". They are also quite demanding, but not rude.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on August 24, 2015, 11:24:16 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on August 24, 2015, 11:24:16 AM
https://foreignpolicy.com says this is a racist and stereotype map from China about Europe. I don't see any bad intention but a typical (and ancient) joke. There are many many jokes like this on internet to take this seriously.
First of all it's in english, so... I think they like to point China as an "evil enemy"... "my rich who makes me more rich evil enemy" :D.
(https://foreignpolicymag.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/map_china_europe_stereotypes_final_copyrightforeignpolicy.jpg)
First of all it's in english, so... I think they like to point China as an "evil enemy"... "my rich who makes me more rich evil enemy" :D.
(https://foreignpolicymag.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/map_china_europe_stereotypes_final_copyrightforeignpolicy.jpg)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on September 04, 2015, 08:58:36 AM
Post by: JTK on September 04, 2015, 08:58:36 AM
Today in our newspaper "Kieler Nachrichten". ("Hungarian Gulasch - Orban's table laid out for refugees")...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on September 04, 2015, 01:53:04 PM
Post by: zaqrack on September 04, 2015, 01:53:04 PM
Quote from: JTK on September 04, 2015, 08:58:36 AM
Today in our newspaper "Kieler Nachrichten". ("Hungarian Gulasch - Orban's table laid out for refugees")...
Oh please don't even mention our arrogant asshole politicians using all living and non-living only to increase and strenghten their personal growth and power :(
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on September 04, 2015, 04:41:58 PM
Post by: Duplode on September 04, 2015, 04:41:58 PM
Quote from: zaqrack on September 04, 2015, 01:53:04 PMQuote from: JTK on September 04, 2015, 08:58:36 AM
Today in our newspaper "Kieler Nachrichten". ("Hungarian Gulasch - Orban's table laid out for refugees")...
Oh please don't even mention our arrogant asshole politicians using all living and non-living only to increase and strenghten their personal growth and power :(
Largely thanks to the threads here, I did bark "asshole" at the TV screen when Orbán showed up in the morning news today.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 04, 2015, 06:27:48 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 04, 2015, 06:27:48 PM
Now, the entire world knows who are Viktor Orbán, the Hungarian Le Pen.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 05, 2015, 08:13:24 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 05, 2015, 08:13:24 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COKIfglWcAET22a.png)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 06, 2015, 01:04:30 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 06, 2015, 01:04:30 AM
Israel, Oman and Yemen are from middle east too and the got zero too.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on September 06, 2015, 01:17:39 AM
Post by: Duplode on September 06, 2015, 01:17:39 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on September 06, 2015, 01:04:30 AM
Israel, Oman and Yemen are from middle east too and the got zero too.
I can't say much about Oman, but Yemen has a civil war of their own to deal with. As for Israel, hell freezing over seems more likely than that country taking Syrian refugees. I guess the infographic is targeted at those very rich Arab states from whom more solidarity might be expected.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 06, 2015, 08:12:47 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 06, 2015, 08:12:47 AM
I know. It was for Israel my comment. They don't want peace too.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 06, 2015, 05:14:27 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 06, 2015, 05:14:27 PM
Brazil received 2,000 syrians. (and is an important syrian-lebanese comunity)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on September 06, 2015, 07:47:40 PM
Post by: JTK on September 06, 2015, 07:47:40 PM
And yesterday the caricature was:
("Good thing we have such a right idiot like Orban." "We can blame him for all, if everything goes wrong.")
("Good thing we have such a right idiot like Orban." "We can blame him for all, if everything goes wrong.")
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on September 18, 2015, 04:58:26 PM
Post by: Usrin on September 18, 2015, 04:58:26 PM
Absolutely true. Orbán became the useful idiot for the EU which could not cope with the refugee crisis without him. Not surprisingly, NO high-ranking politicians, only journalists and activists complain about the fact that Orbán treats refugees as animals. (Btw, I wish him and his followers the same "welcome" on a day when they have to escape from Hungary...)
Back to the current situation: I'm sure that behind the scenes, all EU leaders including Merkel are happy that Orbán is holding the crowd back. This way they can still show a "humanistic", "democratic" face to the world in contrast to the "cruel", "aggressive", "racist" Hungary. But if they really disagreed with Orbán's policy, they would immediately introduce sanctions or try to expel Hungary from the EU! (I think that would have been really happened if Orbán had let everybody travelling further to Austria/Germany, dumping the problem on those countries...)
Back to the current situation: I'm sure that behind the scenes, all EU leaders including Merkel are happy that Orbán is holding the crowd back. This way they can still show a "humanistic", "democratic" face to the world in contrast to the "cruel", "aggressive", "racist" Hungary. But if they really disagreed with Orbán's policy, they would immediately introduce sanctions or try to expel Hungary from the EU! (I think that would have been really happened if Orbán had let everybody travelling further to Austria/Germany, dumping the problem on those countries...)
Quote from: JTK on September 06, 2015, 07:47:40 PM
And yesterday the caricature was:
("Good thing we have such a right idiot like Orban." "We can blame him for all, if everything goes wrong.")
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on September 18, 2015, 05:24:21 PM
Post by: JTK on September 18, 2015, 05:24:21 PM
Yep, that's what the caricature was about and I also think, that behind the curtains European polititians are grateful to have someone to pass the buck to. Nevertheless...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on September 18, 2015, 05:40:13 PM
Post by: Usrin on September 18, 2015, 05:40:13 PM
Politics from Norway: local elections were held on Monday. The outcome is a success for the left-wing in most places. They have got majority in many, previously conservative-led councils, e.g. Bergen and Tromsø, and they have a good chance for governing Oslo. (There they need the votes of the Green Party, officially not committed to any side, so negotiations are going on.)
Sadly enough, the only remaining city with right-wing majority is Stavanger. So for the next 4 years, we can expect:
- worse and more expensive public transport
- less money spent on recreational areas and cycle paths
- privatised social services and kindergartens (luckily it doesn't affect my family now)
- increasing stupid administrative workload for teachers in schools (that one does)
- etc.
The "advantages" for which people supported the conservatives are:
- lower property tax (officially promised, good for the bourgeois)
- improvement of road network instead of public transport (but hey, where the hell can they put more cars in the city?)
- lower road toll (not promised, but people still associate this to Høyre and Frp rather than to left-wing)
The party I voted on (Sosialistisk Venstre) got 4.5% of the votes, and will be in opposition. Their views are positioned somewhere between the real Communist party (Rødt, 1.5%) and the moderate Social Democrats (Arbeiderpartiet, ca. 30%).
Sadly enough, the only remaining city with right-wing majority is Stavanger. So for the next 4 years, we can expect:
- worse and more expensive public transport
- less money spent on recreational areas and cycle paths
- privatised social services and kindergartens (luckily it doesn't affect my family now)
- increasing stupid administrative workload for teachers in schools (that one does)
- etc.
The "advantages" for which people supported the conservatives are:
- lower property tax (officially promised, good for the bourgeois)
- improvement of road network instead of public transport (but hey, where the hell can they put more cars in the city?)
- lower road toll (not promised, but people still associate this to Høyre and Frp rather than to left-wing)
The party I voted on (Sosialistisk Venstre) got 4.5% of the votes, and will be in opposition. Their views are positioned somewhere between the real Communist party (Rødt, 1.5%) and the moderate Social Democrats (Arbeiderpartiet, ca. 30%).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 18, 2015, 05:41:46 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 18, 2015, 05:41:46 PM
I'm so appalled by European politics that the prospect of emigrating for ideological reasons like so many German intellectuals in the 1930's seems real (not nearby, but real). And any country would of course be happy to see me cause I'm white as fúck.
Also, not doing anything becomes less and less comfortable every day when I know there's something I could do, instead of writing songs. I could write about these problems. Sacrifice my living hours to make a minuscule difference in the whole thing.
The strangest thing is: Even if we imagine there's no such thing as morals and that foreign nationals are not to be considered humans, Europe is still pursuing a policy that is spelling out its own doom in the relatively near future.
USA is doing the same thing, only with climate change and domestic poverty being the primary threats there. Why? Because the blind logic of money is taking over power due to a complete lack of resistance. And in the world of money, the future only exists if the next annual budget holds. And sometimes, for the next budget to hold, the future must be sacrificed. And for one's own budget to hold, the community has to be sacrificed.
Also, not doing anything becomes less and less comfortable every day when I know there's something I could do, instead of writing songs. I could write about these problems. Sacrifice my living hours to make a minuscule difference in the whole thing.
The strangest thing is: Even if we imagine there's no such thing as morals and that foreign nationals are not to be considered humans, Europe is still pursuing a policy that is spelling out its own doom in the relatively near future.
USA is doing the same thing, only with climate change and domestic poverty being the primary threats there. Why? Because the blind logic of money is taking over power due to a complete lack of resistance. And in the world of money, the future only exists if the next annual budget holds. And sometimes, for the next budget to hold, the future must be sacrificed. And for one's own budget to hold, the community has to be sacrificed.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on September 18, 2015, 10:14:31 PM
Post by: zaqrack on September 18, 2015, 10:14:31 PM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on September 18, 2015, 05:41:46 PM
I'm so appalled by European politics that the prospect of emigrating for ideological reasons like so many German intellectuals in the 1930's seems real (not nearby, but real). And any country would of course be happy to see me cause I'm white as fúck.
Where to? Let's sync so we can end up closer to eachother :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on September 18, 2015, 10:15:29 PM
Post by: zaqrack on September 18, 2015, 10:15:29 PM
Quote from: Usrin on September 18, 2015, 05:40:13 PM
The party I voted on (Sosialistisk Venstre) got 4.5% of the votes, and will be in opposition. Their views are positioned somewhere between the real Communist party (Rødt, 1.5%) and the moderate Social Democrats (Arbeiderpartiet, ca. 30%).
How does this work? Do you get full voting rights, or limited to some extent? What are the criterias you have to meet to be able to vote in Norway?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on September 19, 2015, 12:34:10 AM
Post by: Usrin on September 19, 2015, 12:34:10 AM
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on September 18, 2015, 05:41:46 PM
I'm so appalled by European politics that the prospect of emigrating for ideological reasons like so many German intellectuals in the 1930's seems real (not nearby, but real). And any country would of course be happy to see me cause I'm white as fúck.
Well, in the 1930's there were a lot of better countries to live than Germany. But where is it better today than in Scandinavia? Anywhere you go, there is even less concern about the future of the society and the environment, and short-term economic profit is even more important... The only exceptions are some dictatorships where you would have no freedom and rights in your everyday life. (The relatively most livable one may be Cuba, but it is going to fall now, "thanks" to the US.)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on September 19, 2015, 12:47:37 AM
Post by: Usrin on September 19, 2015, 12:47:37 AM
Quote from: zaqrack on September 18, 2015, 10:15:29 PM
How does this work? Do you get full voting rights, or limited to some extent? What are the criterias you have to meet to be able to vote in Norway?
For voting in the local elections (town/city/county council), one has to be a resident in Norway for 3 years continuously. But only Norwegian citizens can vote in the general (parliament) elections. Requirements for the citizenship are 8 years continuous residence, language exam and a test on Norwegian history and society. This is my goal - I still have 5 years to improve my Norwegian... (Btw, shorter residence is required and no test is needed for people coming from Denmark/Sweden/Finland/Iceland.)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on September 19, 2015, 10:02:48 PM
Post by: zaqrack on September 19, 2015, 10:02:48 PM
Quote from: Usrin on September 19, 2015, 12:47:37 AMQuote from: zaqrack on September 18, 2015, 10:15:29 PM
How does this work? Do you get full voting rights, or limited to some extent? What are the criterias you have to meet to be able to vote in Norway?
For voting in the local elections (town/city/county council), one has to be a resident in Norway for 3 years continuously. But only Norwegian citizens can vote in the general (parliament) elections. Requirements for the citizenship are 8 years continuous residence, language exam and a test on Norwegian history and society. This is my goal - I still have 5 years to improve my Norwegian... (Btw, shorter residence is required and no test is needed for people coming from Denmark/Sweden/Finland/Iceland.)
It is very generous to allow voting after three years residence. The citizenship requirements sound tough (e.g. UK only requires 5 years as far I know) - but in my opinion the Norwegian requirements seem fair, considering the status of the country. I assume there is no shortcut for rich foreigners as in many other countries.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 20, 2015, 06:00:33 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 20, 2015, 06:00:33 PM
About Denmark:
1) What do you think about monarchy and danish monarchy?
2) You're only 5.6 million people sorrounded by powerful and populous countrys such Germany and UK. Is there a stronger patriot feeling or solidarity/unity between danish?
3) How is the feeling and relation today with Norway? (between people, not politics). And Sweden?
4) What's your (danish people) general opinion about Russia, Germany and USA?
I like to make these questions because it's a different kind of information I could have from news or informative sites. :)
1) What do you think about monarchy and danish monarchy?
2) You're only 5.6 million people sorrounded by powerful and populous countrys such Germany and UK. Is there a stronger patriot feeling or solidarity/unity between danish?
3) How is the feeling and relation today with Norway? (between people, not politics). And Sweden?
4) What's your (danish people) general opinion about Russia, Germany and USA?
I like to make these questions because it's a different kind of information I could have from news or informative sites. :)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 20, 2015, 07:02:27 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on September 20, 2015, 07:02:27 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on September 20, 2015, 06:00:33 PM
About Denmark:
1) What do you think about monarchy and danish monarchy?
2) You're only 5.6 million people sorrounded by powerful and populous countrys such Germany and UK. Is there a stronger patriot feeling or solidarity/unity between danish?
3) How is the feeling and relation today with Norway? (between people, not politics). And Sweden?
4) What's your (danish people) general opinion about Russia, Germany and USA?
I like to make these questions because it's a different kind of information I could have from news or informative sites. :)
1) I think it's a joke and it should be abolished as soon as possible. But most of the population loves it so that won't happen in my lifetime.
2) Yes, I guess so. I think your question contains some very strong arguments for Denmark to work for closer international cooperation and a stronger EU, but unfortunately there is a strong sentiment of "ain't nobody gonna mess with OUR potato fields" here. "People" (in a very broad sense with very many exceptions) are wary of all kinds of foreigners except perhaps white people from Sweden and Norway (and maybe Britain and USA).
In the city, where I live, national sentiment doesn't mean very much on a conscious level. People here don't actively identify as Danish. However, in the countryside, national sentiment appears to be much more prevalent - perhaps in the absence of local sentiment.
3) We are very friendly with Norway and Norwegians. We make jokes about them and they make jokes about us. We still think of them as a sibling country. Sweden: also very friendly relations, but because of Sweden's progressive politics, some Danes are more wary of Sweden. As your question regarded people not politics, I'd say Swedish and Norwegian people are some of the few people that most of us here actually manage to view as equals. All the jokes and stereotypes only speak of jovial relations.
4) Russia: Public opinion here is against Russia and particularly against Putin, but it's not something we feel very strongly about.
Germany: My grandmother was born in 1917 and died in 2011. Right until the end, she harbored a deep-rooted disdain for Germany. I think everyone from younger generations has accepted that Germany learned a lesson after WWII and terms are friendly. Generally, we see them as responsible, related and profoundly European. They are definitely more foreign than Sweden and Norway, though.
USA: as in many other countries, opinions on USA are divided along the left/right spectrum. Generally, we are very pro-USA, but the left wing is not. When George W. ruled the US, we were less enthusiastic. We always relate better to Democratic presidents. Politically, we are probably the #1 ass-kisser of the USA. It's horrible.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 17, 2015, 04:01:37 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 17, 2015, 04:01:37 AM
Two weeks ago Argentina launched its second telecommunications satellite made here. It's an event I'm proud because it's not an easy quest, only eight countrys did it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUSvBbgoUik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUSvBbgoUik
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 17, 2015, 07:26:59 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on October 17, 2015, 07:26:59 PM
Good job. No easy task for sure.
But I hope there's some economic rationale, not just the old trick about making the population feel national pride so they can forget about social and economic issues...
But I hope there's some economic rationale, not just the old trick about making the population feel national pride so they can forget about social and economic issues...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 17, 2015, 07:59:31 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 17, 2015, 07:59:31 PM
There are politicians behind so always there will be corruption or second meanings. BTW thanks to this satellites program (there are another two comming) we kept the orbit assigned by UN (we almost lose it because neoliberalism goverment from 90's. They sold/rent everything including the our assigned orbit (yes, they're geniuses about making money). Then in 2005 or 2007 another government made this project to occupate and use the orbit.
Next week it's the president elections so about this project I hope they'll keep going with it. Anyway I don't like any of the 6 candidates. I don't like the neoliberalist, I don't like the iron fist militarists, I don't like the candidate of the current government, I don't like the left wing candidate, I don't like the other two. :(
It's almost sure Daniel Scioli will win. It's the candidate of the current government. I guess this government made some good things but Scioli was a minion of the worst presidents, one from liberalism and the other a leader of a droug maffia. This guy didn't show a personal though. None of the candidates but the left winged IMO.
They are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_general_election,_2015
Next week it's the president elections so about this project I hope they'll keep going with it. Anyway I don't like any of the 6 candidates. I don't like the neoliberalist, I don't like the iron fist militarists, I don't like the candidate of the current government, I don't like the left wing candidate, I don't like the other two. :(
It's almost sure Daniel Scioli will win. It's the candidate of the current government. I guess this government made some good things but Scioli was a minion of the worst presidents, one from liberalism and the other a leader of a droug maffia. This guy didn't show a personal though. None of the candidates but the left winged IMO.
They are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_general_election,_2015
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on October 25, 2015, 08:51:43 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on October 25, 2015, 08:51:43 PM
This morning I voted for president... let's see what happens.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on November 11, 2015, 10:08:36 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on November 11, 2015, 10:08:36 PM
Area destroyed by Samarco (Vale + BHP) in Minas Gerais
Antes = Before
Depois = After
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/a028f1aaf673fe7e9e3cd3f159fa17e7/tumblr_nxnzfhCNj31ukcdvgo1_1280.gif)
Antes = Before
Depois = After
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/a028f1aaf673fe7e9e3cd3f159fa17e7/tumblr_nxnzfhCNj31ukcdvgo1_1280.gif)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 11, 2015, 10:58:49 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 11, 2015, 10:58:49 PM
Damn :-\
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 23, 2015, 09:59:44 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 23, 2015, 09:59:44 AM
Neoliberalism won in Argentina. We did it again. Another 4 years of sodomy. The'll destroy the country again. This is sad. Why we do this to us? Do we need our pockets empty to have memory?
I know people who voted the next government and they live/need some subsidies that will be removed (not a secret, they said it in the last few years). Subsidies in energy, transport and even University. They are happy voting their decay.
The motto is "We want a change". Alright I agree but please voting the extreme right wing is not the way to improve.
I know people who voted the next government and they live/need some subsidies that will be removed (not a secret, they said it in the last few years). Subsidies in energy, transport and even University. They are happy voting their decay.
The motto is "We want a change". Alright I agree but please voting the extreme right wing is not the way to improve.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 23, 2015, 01:05:10 PM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on November 23, 2015, 01:05:10 PM
That's sad. What is this winning party like? And what do you mean by "sodomy"? :o
By the way, good job to the person who just voted that Obama will be president for 8 years. Great prediction :D
By the way, good job to the person who just voted that Obama will be president for 8 years. Great prediction :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 24, 2015, 12:19:39 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 24, 2015, 12:19:39 AM
It's a new party (about 10 years old) plus some party alliances but the faces aren't new. It's called PRO ("Propuesta Republicana" or "Republican Proposal"). It's just a name. One party of this alliance already left the alliance (less than 24hs of the results). It was just for the votes. Is this democracy? Because the people who voted this alliance because their party was in it won't find represented. Democracy, democracy. We don't have anything better and it's agonizing.
They used silly and easy slogans just like "let's change. Let's vote with hope, with joy. More work, we'll do it like a team together.".. WTF?? Where are the proposals?? What about the economy, what about the dollar exchange, what about exports/imports, what about unemployment, what about the industry, what about the retired people... nobody cares.... nobody cares anything just a silly idea to get the previous government out, no matter if they had to vote Sauron or Sideshow Bob. Simply and mindless people. Just a bit of wellness and we turn into neoliberals.
Another silly slogan "Zero poverty"... who would believe that in a capitalist world? Just read 2 lines of Keynes or Friedman and you'll know unemployment is a must in capitalism and more if you play as neoliberal. I repeat, nobody cares, they didn't vote that. They voted to kick the current government out no matter the price.
They used silly and easy slogans just like "let's change. Let's vote with hope, with joy. More work, we'll do it like a team together.".. WTF?? Where are the proposals?? What about the economy, what about the dollar exchange, what about exports/imports, what about unemployment, what about the industry, what about the retired people... nobody cares.... nobody cares anything just a silly idea to get the previous government out, no matter if they had to vote Sauron or Sideshow Bob. Simply and mindless people. Just a bit of wellness and we turn into neoliberals.
Another silly slogan "Zero poverty"... who would believe that in a capitalist world? Just read 2 lines of Keynes or Friedman and you'll know unemployment is a must in capitalism and more if you play as neoliberal. I repeat, nobody cares, they didn't vote that. They voted to kick the current government out no matter the price.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 24, 2015, 12:39:01 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 24, 2015, 12:39:01 AM
BTW he has a trial in the Court because a political spy scandal. He must ask permission to the Court to leave the country (travel out of...) . This will be our president from next Dec 10th.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on November 24, 2015, 01:55:13 AM
Post by: Duplode on November 24, 2015, 01:55:13 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on November 24, 2015, 12:19:39 AM
It's called PRO ("Propuesta Republicana" or "Republican Proposal"). It's just a name.
I find it quite annoying that, regardless of where you are in the world, odds are that any party named "republican" will suck. My mind insists in associating that adjective with good things.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on November 25, 2015, 06:04:25 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on November 25, 2015, 06:04:25 PM
Macri is a sad back to the past in Argentina, the past of neoliberalism, the past of riches going richer.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on November 26, 2015, 09:54:54 AM
Post by: Usrin on November 26, 2015, 09:54:54 AM
(http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/what-will-you-have-for-thanksgiving-dinner-turkey-obama-putin.jpg)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on December 04, 2015, 09:28:01 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on December 04, 2015, 09:28:01 PM
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/8429/a19m4jem79n656tzg.jpg?size_id=4)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on December 10, 2015, 11:25:53 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on December 10, 2015, 11:25:53 PM
It seens legit:
(http://i.giphy.com/26tPjAYaLxONFEvyo.gif)
(http://i.giphy.com/26tPjAYaLxONFEvyo.gif)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on December 11, 2015, 01:13:05 AM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on December 11, 2015, 01:13:05 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o8doYMSf3Dt5m3U2Y/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on March 19, 2016, 03:30:03 AM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on March 19, 2016, 03:30:03 AM
An interesting article about the facts in Brazil (in English): https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on April 13, 2016, 02:34:59 AM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on April 13, 2016, 02:34:59 AM
Brian Eno is right. Brazil is near of a paraguayan-style coup: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/11/attempts-to-oust-president-dilma-rousseff-are-undemocratic
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on April 13, 2016, 03:23:34 AM
Post by: Duplode on April 13, 2016, 03:23:34 AM
Quote from: Shoegazing Leo on April 13, 2016, 02:34:59 AM
Brian Eno is right. Brazil is near of a paraguayan-style coup: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/11/attempts-to-oust-president-dilma-rousseff-are-undemocratic
"Eno who? Must be another parasite bankrolled by the Rouanet Law!"
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on April 13, 2016, 05:55:02 AM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on April 13, 2016, 05:55:02 AM
Quote from: Duplode on April 13, 2016, 03:23:34 AMQuote from: Shoegazing Leo on April 13, 2016, 02:34:59 AM
Brian Eno is right. Brazil is near of a paraguayan-style coup: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/11/attempts-to-oust-president-dilma-rousseff-are-undemocratic (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/11/attempts-to-oust-president-dilma-rousseff-are-undemocratic)
"Eno who? Must be another parasite bankrolled by the Rouanet Law!"
Duplode, your joke is brazilian understandable only
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on April 14, 2016, 06:31:49 AM
Post by: Duplode on April 14, 2016, 06:31:49 AM
Quote from: Shoegazing Leo on April 13, 2016, 05:55:02 AM
Duplode, your joke is brazilian understandable only
Indeed! Here goes some context. The post above refers to the following inference: in Brazil, the Rouanet Law makes financial contributions by companies to artistic projects tax-deducible. A number of artists receive funds thanks to it, in effect having their projects subsidised by the government. Now, it also happens that many artists lean left politically, or hold PT/Dilma/the federal government in some esteem, or simply are against the impeachment. "Therefore", those artists are merely propaganda tools bought by the government through the Rouanet Law. This sophistical conclusion is very commonly seen in comment boxes across the Brazilian part of the Internet...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on April 18, 2016, 03:25:15 AM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on April 18, 2016, 03:25:15 AM
Coup d'etat is happening like Paraguay. Michel Temer and Eduardo Cunha are two fascist pigs, usurpers.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on April 18, 2016, 04:54:00 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on April 18, 2016, 04:54:00 AM
"Então é assim que a liberdade morre, com um estrondoso aplauso." Padme said. Just remember who were the happy guys in the congress. You'll find them for many many years. They are selling your country for nothing... AGAIN!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on April 18, 2016, 06:38:15 AM
Post by: Duplode on April 18, 2016, 06:38:15 AM
"Michel Temer, President of Brazil" -- the mere idea is sickening. Temer will go down in history as a traitor of the lowest kind. (Not to mention the various other crooks, hypocrites and literal fascist pigs involved in this farce.)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on April 19, 2016, 12:17:39 AM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on April 19, 2016, 12:17:39 AM
Strange things happening: https://theintercept.com/2016/04/18/after-vote-to-remove-brazils-president-key-opposition-figure-holds-meetings-in-washington/
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on April 21, 2016, 06:11:52 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on April 21, 2016, 06:11:52 AM
Fuckers
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on April 23, 2016, 02:15:06 AM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on April 23, 2016, 02:15:06 AM
Who is coming from the shadows: https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/to-see-the-real-story-in-brazil-look-at-who-is-being-installed-as-president-and-finance-chiefs/
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on May 11, 2016, 09:39:33 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on May 11, 2016, 09:39:33 PM
https://theintercept.com/2016/05/11/brazils-democracy-to-suffer-grievous-blow-today-as-unelectable-corrupt-neoliberal-is-installed/
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 02, 2016, 03:08:41 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 02, 2016, 03:08:41 PM
(https://scontent-gru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14199562_297986547238213_431729977296771875_n.jpg?oh=33da71c4ce35f2e7164771618e5fc5da&oe=583D9352)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 02, 2016, 07:35:39 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 02, 2016, 07:35:39 PM
Exactly
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 02, 2016, 08:08:02 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 02, 2016, 08:08:02 PM
Why we are so quiet about it? :(
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 02, 2016, 11:48:28 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 02, 2016, 11:48:28 PM
We are in shock.
The brazilian democracy was killed by bribers who want to save themselves. Now, as president, Michel Temer can't be responsible by his acts before.
He bought senators with positions in state companies. Romario sold himself.
The brazilian democracy was killed by bribers who want to save themselves. Now, as president, Michel Temer can't be responsible by his acts before.
He bought senators with positions in state companies. Romario sold himself.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 02, 2016, 11:50:41 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on September 02, 2016, 11:50:41 PM
Now, the betrayor will aply the government plan of the second place of last elections. A program wich was rejected by the most of people. His allies are from PSDB and DEM, two parties of second place of last elections.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on September 03, 2016, 08:51:30 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on September 03, 2016, 08:51:30 PM
I wonder how is a not democracy today. I mean, you still can write your opinion on internet... but I'm pretty sure those who has the media in brazil has the main internet companies. So you may forget your online privacy.
Hard times are comming :( XXI century style
Hard times are comming :( XXI century style
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 27, 2017, 04:16:18 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 27, 2017, 04:16:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5rVkh4WUAAWVwt.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on February 28, 2017, 04:36:55 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on February 28, 2017, 04:36:55 PM
Scary
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 26, 2017, 12:35:00 AM
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 26, 2017, 12:35:00 AM
Yes but.....
Since then,
- Brexit happened and is not looking promising
- The new American alt-right government is increasingly unpopular and makes for bad PR.
- elections in Netherlands, Austria and France have been won by pro-EU parties and lost by nationalists. Nationalists in Europe have had no victories since Brexit.
Since then,
- Brexit happened and is not looking promising
- The new American alt-right government is increasingly unpopular and makes for bad PR.
- elections in Netherlands, Austria and France have been won by pro-EU parties and lost by nationalists. Nationalists in Europe have had no victories since Brexit.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: afullo on April 17, 2018, 11:05:08 PM
Post by: afullo on April 17, 2018, 11:05:08 PM
Meanwhile, in Italy...
it took several years to get (at least apparently) rid of Berlusconi, which although being a quite able businessman, is basically an entrepreneur participating in politics only in order to defend his interests, and now:
The risk is a compromise solution which would require to take aboard in some form Berlusconi again. Which, it has to be said, is more moderate on some topics than other parties, but if everything changes in order that nothing has changed, we would be trapped in a loop...
it took several years to get (at least apparently) rid of Berlusconi, which although being a quite able businessman, is basically an entrepreneur participating in politics only in order to defend his interests, and now:
- the left-wing PD (Partito Democratico, Democratic Party), with its allies, failed to take care of the necessities of the traditional social classes voting that side, and so had a huge drop (like in other EU countries, e.g. Netherlands);
- the anti-estabilishment M5S (Movimento Cinque Stelle, Five Star Movement) is beginning to realize that you cannot do politics by just screaming slogans and talking of utopian ideals like basic income for everyone, so it's going to negotiate with other parties;
- the anti-immigration Lega (League) is still considered untrustworthy in the south of the country, because of its past as Lega Nord (Northern League) fighting for less obligation for the richer north to sustain the welfare of the poorer south;
- no one has a majority, not even in a single house: the M5S is the first party, but Lega with Berlusconi (and far-right Meloni) as a coalition outnumber them, although having less than half of both deputies and senators.
The risk is a compromise solution which would require to take aboard in some form Berlusconi again. Which, it has to be said, is more moderate on some topics than other parties, but if everything changes in order that nothing has changed, we would be trapped in a loop...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Cas on April 29, 2018, 08:08:42 PM
Post by: Cas on April 29, 2018, 08:08:42 PM
Well, in Argentina, we're at the middle of the presidential period, with the Kirchner "dynasty" having ended two years ago. Anger between what many refer to as "the two countries" si weakening finally, as some supporters of the former government are getting used to current reality and some defenders of the current no longer like what they're seeing, which makes people more similary, but times were hard a couple of years ago, like politics were a football game.
Things are more calm in some aspects and tighter in others now. The Kirchners had been fanatising some sectors, calling themselves "leftists" and dubbing their opponents "gorillas" and "neo-liberals", as if any politician had ever been on the side of people. But this propaganda works and the brainwash created the hatred the were incubating. It's better to let some people hate you very much as long as others turn into your loyal followers. That's a good bet for a political party. The new government is not fond of personality cult and populism, so things are calmer in this aspect. On the other hand, no longer throwing money up to the skies for prople to grab and get distracted, budgets have got a lot tighter. For international tourists, for instance, Argentina has turned from very cheap to very expensive really quickly. The government doesn't look as strong as at the beginning, so we're all wondering what will happen in two years. I'm guessing many Argentines of different political positions are trying to save some money and getting their luggage ready for a quick run XD
Oh, this country, that never treats me well, but teaches me so much! Some people thank their countries for making them love their flags and I thank mine for showing me how little value a flag can have and for making me a free citizen of the world.
Things are more calm in some aspects and tighter in others now. The Kirchners had been fanatising some sectors, calling themselves "leftists" and dubbing their opponents "gorillas" and "neo-liberals", as if any politician had ever been on the side of people. But this propaganda works and the brainwash created the hatred the were incubating. It's better to let some people hate you very much as long as others turn into your loyal followers. That's a good bet for a political party. The new government is not fond of personality cult and populism, so things are calmer in this aspect. On the other hand, no longer throwing money up to the skies for prople to grab and get distracted, budgets have got a lot tighter. For international tourists, for instance, Argentina has turned from very cheap to very expensive really quickly. The government doesn't look as strong as at the beginning, so we're all wondering what will happen in two years. I'm guessing many Argentines of different political positions are trying to save some money and getting their luggage ready for a quick run XD
Oh, this country, that never treats me well, but teaches me so much! Some people thank their countries for making them love their flags and I thank mine for showing me how little value a flag can have and for making me a free citizen of the world.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on May 05, 2018, 06:52:34 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on May 05, 2018, 06:52:34 AM
Oh yes... and our currency devalued 9% in a week (a week with 4 holidays! weekend + 2 holidays). Well done Government!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on May 08, 2018, 09:38:15 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on May 08, 2018, 09:38:15 PM
(https://i.redd.it/kmszyjcxhsi01.jpg)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on May 10, 2018, 03:23:30 AM
Post by: Duplode on May 10, 2018, 03:23:30 AM
^^ Good one! It reminds me of the tales of Besiktas, Fenerbahce and Galatasaray ultras protesting together against Erdogan.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on June 01, 2018, 04:11:06 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on June 01, 2018, 04:11:06 PM
Hahaha MAURICIO MACRI LA PUTA QUE TE PARIOOOOO
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on June 03, 2018, 11:15:16 AM
Post by: Duplode on June 03, 2018, 11:15:16 AM
Today I was surprised by news from Hungary in my mailbox... the Georg Lukács Archives in Budapest are being dismantled (https://mereiszakkoli.wordpress.com/2018/05/25/1317/). Surely there are more pressing concerns in Hungary than the woes of a bunch of philosophers, and some of you know are overwhelmingly better able to talk about them than me. Still, it is revolting.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on October 28, 2018, 11:14:50 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on October 28, 2018, 11:14:50 PM
RIP Brazil. The fascists won...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on November 12, 2018, 12:00:51 AM
Post by: Duplode on November 12, 2018, 12:00:51 AM
Quote from: Shoegazing Leo on October 28, 2018, 11:14:50 PM
RIP Brazil. The fascists won...
A little over three years ago, I posted this:
Quote from: Duplode on August 16, 2015, 11:16:37 PMQuote from: BonzaiJoe on August 16, 2015, 11:18:55 AM
What's happening in Brazil? Duplode? Leo?
Economic downturn + corruption scandals + a politically weak and generally adrift government => demonstrators and sectors of the opposition (*) crying "Impeachment!". That has been the default state of affairs since January, so there is nothing to be too overtly worried about (**).
(*) I'd rather say overexcited demonstrators and sectors of agitators within the opposition, but that's my own political slant, and so YMMV.
(**) Of course the three things I listed at the beginning are quite worrying. I just mean we are not at the brink of an institutional crisis or anything really serious like that.
And look where we are now. That should teach me not to tempt fate...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on November 15, 2018, 12:03:53 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on November 15, 2018, 12:03:53 AM
G20 in Buenos Aires the November 30th.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: zaqrack on November 19, 2018, 06:34:00 PM
Post by: zaqrack on November 19, 2018, 06:34:00 PM
Our asshole PM just sent congratulations to yours, expressing his gratitude that he won by sharing the same values as he does.
Yay. I pray for the economic crisis to hit for all these fuckheads to take the blame and fade away finally.
Yay. I pray for the economic crisis to hit for all these fuckheads to take the blame and fade away finally.
Quote from: Duplode on November 12, 2018, 12:00:51 AMQuote from: Shoegazing Leo on October 28, 2018, 11:14:50 PM
RIP Brazil. The fascists won...
A little over three years ago, I posted this:Quote from: Duplode on August 16, 2015, 11:16:37 PMQuote from: BonzaiJoe on August 16, 2015, 11:18:55 AM
What's happening in Brazil? Duplode? Leo?
Economic downturn + corruption scandals + a politically weak and generally adrift government => demonstrators and sectors of the opposition (*) crying "Impeachment!". That has been the default state of affairs since January, so there is nothing to be too overtly worried about (**).
(*) I'd rather say overexcited demonstrators and sectors of agitators within the opposition, but that's my own political slant, and so YMMV.
(**) Of course the three things I listed at the beginning are quite worrying. I just mean we are not at the brink of an institutional crisis or anything really serious like that.
And look where we are now. That should teach me not to tempt fate...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on November 20, 2018, 04:39:34 AM
Post by: Duplode on November 20, 2018, 04:39:34 AM
Quote from: zaqrack on November 19, 2018, 06:34:00 PM
Our asshole PM just sent congratulations to yours, expressing his gratitude that he won by sharing the same values as he does.
Bolsonaro's remarks on this exchange of pleasantries included a stupefying quote about dictatorships (I won't pollute the server by reproducing it here). But who am I kidding? In an age of post-truth, gall becomes a virtue (https://www.dw.com/en/brazil-german-embassy-triggers-bizarre-nazi-and-holocaust-debate/a-45577454).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
Trump is 73 and probably infected by COVID (after meeting the BRA president). Hmmm...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: dreadnaut on March 13, 2020, 09:25:00 PM
Post by: dreadnaut on March 13, 2020, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: CTG on March 13, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
Trump is 73 and probably infected by COVID (after meeting the BRA president). Hmmm...
But the layer of clay and makeup that cover his skin protects him from most diseases, and small caliber weapons :o
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2020, 09:25:52 PM
Post by: CTG on March 13, 2020, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: dreadnaut on March 13, 2020, 09:25:00 PMQuote from: CTG on March 13, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
Trump is 73 and probably infected by COVID (after meeting the BRA president). Hmmm...
But the layer of clay and makeup that cover his skin protects him from most diseases, and small caliber weapons :o
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Cas on March 14, 2020, 02:59:00 AM
Post by: Cas on March 14, 2020, 02:59:00 AM
A number of politicians in different positions in many countries have already confirmed the are infected. I've read about several different of those cases in the news and already forgot from which countries and in which positions, but yeah, ha, ha. Argentina's de-facto dictator and her puppet seem to be doing quite well so far, but considering that South America has been the last part of the world to get its sip of the virus, it's not surprising cases have not yet shot up so high. And considering how terribly disorganised our countries are, it makes sense to think we'll eventually develop a situation worse than that of most European countries. So... if we civilians are going to eat Covy, it'd be fair our disgusting politicians have to deal with him as well! :P
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 14, 2020, 11:27:01 AM
Post by: CTG on April 14, 2020, 11:27:01 AM
Back to USA and to the age of president candidates:
Trump 73, Biden 77, Sanders 78 (okay, he's out).
At the end of the next presidental term, the boss will be 78 or 82y old. Is it really good for us to give the power to potentially demented dinosaurs?
Trump 73, Biden 77, Sanders 78 (okay, he's out).
At the end of the next presidental term, the boss will be 78 or 82y old. Is it really good for us to give the power to potentially demented dinosaurs?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on April 14, 2020, 12:03:50 PM
Post by: Usrin on April 14, 2020, 12:03:50 PM
Quote from: CTG on April 14, 2020, 11:27:01 AM
Back to USA and to the age of president candidates:
Trump 73, Biden 77, Sanders 78 (okay, he's out).
At the end of the next presidental term, the boss will be 78 or 82y old. Is it really good for us to give the power to potentially demented dinosaurs?
I am looking forward to see the vice presidential candidates. He/she will automatically get the seat if something happens to the president, and that was never as probable as now.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: afullo on April 14, 2020, 02:40:17 PM
Post by: afullo on April 14, 2020, 02:40:17 PM
Italian Presidents of the Republic are usually even older, but their role is more ceremonial than other (like the King or the Queen in the monarchies), and it has nothing to do with the position of Prime Minister or however leader of the government...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on May 31, 2020, 11:30:17 PM
Post by: CTG on May 31, 2020, 11:30:17 PM
Ah, the George Floyd hysteria... Now really, don't we have 32535631425134645643 more important issues in real life than a dead... uhm... what is the politically correct expression for these beings?
Imagine if the policeman was also a black guy. Then it's a simple police abuse.
I'm sick of this overliberalized world with GDPR, political correctness, 21st century first world problems, negro/turkish/arabian European "national" football teams and the fade of classic European/American culture...
Imagine if the policeman was also a black guy. Then it's a simple police abuse.
I'm sick of this overliberalized world with GDPR, political correctness, 21st century first world problems, negro/turkish/arabian European "national" football teams and the fade of classic European/American culture...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Overdrijf on May 31, 2020, 11:42:08 PM
Post by: Overdrijf on May 31, 2020, 11:42:08 PM
Quote from: CTG on May 31, 2020, 11:30:17 PMImagine if the policeman was also a black guy. Then it's a simple police abuse.
It would be. And that would be a problem.
Unfortunately, that's not what happened, and that's not the reoccurring pattern. So it's both a socio-political minefield and a problem.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: dreadnaut on May 31, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Post by: dreadnaut on May 31, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: CTG on May 31, 2020, 11:30:17 PM
I'm sick of this overliberalized world with GDPR, political correctness, 21st century first world problems, negro/turkish/arabian European "national" football teams and the fade of classic European/American culture...
What's this, "ah, the good old days"? Getting old and conservative?
The 21st century can bring its problems on, but people need to work on fixing them, instead of closing doors and pretend they are not there. Some old days were good for some people, but it turns out it was a minority, and often at the expenses of others. Some rebalancing is going to happen, and you can be responsive, and maybe help direct the change, or defensive and have no say in the process.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on June 01, 2020, 12:02:47 AM
Post by: CTG on June 01, 2020, 12:02:47 AM
Quote from: dreadnaut on May 31, 2020, 11:58:09 PMQuote from: CTG on May 31, 2020, 11:30:17 PM
I'm sick of this overliberalized world with GDPR, political correctness, 21st century first world problems, negro/turkish/arabian European "national" football teams and the fade of classic European/American culture...
What's this, "ah, the good old days"? Getting old and conservative?
The 21st century can bring its problems on, but people need to work on fixing them, instead of closing doors and pretend they are not there. Some old days were good for some people, but it turns out it was a minority, and often at the expenses of others. Some rebalancing is going to happen, and you can be responsive, and maybe help direct the change, or defensive and have no say in the process.
Actually, I still belong to the extreme right wing. For me, Orbán and Trump are just dumb and populist shitheads with no real intention to behave like a real right wing politican. (While liberals think Orbán is a "nazi dictator". LOL. He's not.)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on June 01, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on June 01, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
Quote from: CTG on May 31, 2020, 11:30:17 PM
Ah, the George Floyd hysteria... Now really, don't we have 32535631425134645643 more important issues in real life than a dead... uhm... what is the politically correct expression for these beings?
Imagine if the policeman was also a black guy. Then it's a simple police abuse.
I'm sick of this overliberalized world with GDPR, political correctness, 21st century first world problems, negro/turkish/arabian European "national" football teams and the fade of classic European/American culture...
I hate policemen (and especially policewomen) enough to find this case important. For me, it is not about torturing niggers, rather about the police-terrorism which is also present in Hungary.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Cas on September 20, 2020, 09:18:07 PM
Post by: Cas on September 20, 2020, 09:18:07 PM
That police problem is serious. I agree with CTG about the point that those policemen could as well have been black, so the "racism" tinge in the matter is purely made up. I do not deny that there are many cases of abuse by cops probably in all countries and in some more than others, but this does not mean that "the police is bad". If people continue to complain and demonstrate against "the police" (by the way, songs by The Police always transport me to the 80s... anyway...), this will weaken a force that at least very often, defends us a bit and crime will ramp up. The concept of a police is a good concept and I defend it. If a cop, or any other individual, commits an abuse, of course, they should pay for it, but the concept of police and the force as a whole should be defended by us civilians, as we are the ones it was made for.
In other lines, Argentina is again in a super-crisis. Coronavirus cases are shooting up. This is, of course, to be expected. In my opinions, all countries will have or have had a point of maximum coronavirus cases. Argentina has it later because it had a more restrictive and longer quarantine, that's all. I don't even blame the government for that (even though they suck). But people are thinking the cases went up because of reasons that nothing have to do with this simple fact. In the meantime, the regime is... trying to help with the CoViD cases? No, of course! Trying to break the judges to achieve impunity and stay in power forever. Completely expected and foretold long ago. You know, before the Roman Empire, Romans had a Republic. Then it fell to demagogues and became an Empire, which is a fancy costume for an absolute monarchy. It remained on until its end, roughly a thousand years later. If people who vote and people who protest would study first!
In other lines, Argentina is again in a super-crisis. Coronavirus cases are shooting up. This is, of course, to be expected. In my opinions, all countries will have or have had a point of maximum coronavirus cases. Argentina has it later because it had a more restrictive and longer quarantine, that's all. I don't even blame the government for that (even though they suck). But people are thinking the cases went up because of reasons that nothing have to do with this simple fact. In the meantime, the regime is... trying to help with the CoViD cases? No, of course! Trying to break the judges to achieve impunity and stay in power forever. Completely expected and foretold long ago. You know, before the Roman Empire, Romans had a Republic. Then it fell to demagogues and became an Empire, which is a fancy costume for an absolute monarchy. It remained on until its end, roughly a thousand years later. If people who vote and people who protest would study first!
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on November 04, 2020, 02:36:54 PM
Post by: CTG on November 04, 2020, 02:36:54 PM
Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich 224-213 at the moment!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douche_and_Turd
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douche_and_Turd
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Overdrijf on February 24, 2022, 09:33:01 AM
Post by: Overdrijf on February 24, 2022, 09:33:01 AM
Everyone safe? Nobody bombed by Putin yet?
Should we be making plans for surviving WW3?
Should we be making plans for surviving WW3?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 24, 2022, 10:00:32 AM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 24, 2022, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: Overdrijf on February 24, 2022, 09:33:01 AM
Everyone safe? Nobody bombed by Putin yet?
Should we be making plans for surviving WW3?
Maybe I am the one here who lives the closest to Ukraine (border ~150 km away), but I am safe, fortunately.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on February 24, 2022, 11:22:08 AM
Post by: Usrin on February 24, 2022, 11:22:08 AM
Quote from: Overdrijf on February 24, 2022, 09:33:01 AM
Everyone safe? Nobody bombed by Putin yet?
Should we be making plans for surviving WW3?
I am not interested. Life after WW3 will suck anyway.
Quote from: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 24, 2022, 10:00:32 AM
Maybe I am the one here who lives the closest to Ukraine (border ~150 km away), but I am safe, fortunately.
If you were not safe, that would mean WW3, where distances do not really matter anymore. Chances may be slightly better for the South American pipsqueaks.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: afullo on February 24, 2022, 03:41:43 PM
Post by: afullo on February 24, 2022, 03:41:43 PM
I'm ready to fight WW4 with knifes and clubs, in the case.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 04:03:29 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 04:03:29 PM
WW4 will be a social media insult fight.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: dreadnaut on February 24, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
Post by: dreadnaut on February 24, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 24, 2022, 10:00:32 AM
Maybe I am the one here who lives the closest to Ukraine (border ~150 km away), but I am safe, fortunately.
Good to hear!
Areas so close to the border will probably have to deal with refugees and wounded in the coming days. That might put extra strain on hospitals too, which are already under Covid pressure. Hopefully, EU / UN will not mess this up, and send sufficient medical support.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Daniel3D on February 24, 2022, 06:31:43 PM
Post by: Daniel3D on February 24, 2022, 06:31:43 PM
I feel they already messed up. On the other hand. This is a political nightmare. We want to sanction Russia, but are dependent on it's gas supply.
So Russia can hurt Europe without having to resort to nuke's.
So Russia can hurt Europe without having to resort to nuke's.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 07:43:27 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 07:43:27 PM
Europe should stop doing everything dady USA asks. This conflict and sactionts rises the price of gas in Europe up to now about a 40%. That's insane. There are other ways than invading or expanding military organizations (NATO). Let Ukraine alone both of them, NATO and Russia.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: dreadnaut on February 24, 2022, 08:03:49 PM
Post by: dreadnaut on February 24, 2022, 08:03:49 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 07:43:27 PM
Europe should stop doing everything dady USA asks. This conflict and sactionts rises the price of gas in Europe up to now about a 40%. That's insane. There are other ways than invading or expanding military organizations (NATO). Let Ukraine alone both of them, NATO and Russia.
NATO has never invaded anything: it is a defence pact, and any country can ask to join. That's what the Baltic republics did, feeling threatened by Russia. And that's what Ukraine would have liked to do as well: if they were part of it, they would have allies and be a more difficult target.
The main issue here is that Western Europe has a "we can be rich by being nice to each other" approach, and expands by convincing other countries to be nice to each other. Russia has historically been an imperialistic country, which expands by force (military or otherwise), and is threatened by the concept of "being nice". Ukraine was becoming too nice, Belarus was getting there, and Putin decided it was too risky for him and Russia's power structure.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: afullo on February 24, 2022, 08:29:39 PM
Post by: afullo on February 24, 2022, 08:29:39 PM
Quote from: dreadnaut on February 24, 2022, 08:03:49 PMI completely agree. Russia has a very low GDP per capita compared to most of the other great powers, with strong disparities between oligarchs and lower classes, it is natural that a country would prefer to affiliate with EU or more in general Western institutions.
The main issue here is that Western Europe has a "we can be rich by being nice to each other" approach, and expands by convincing other countries to be nice to each other. Russia has historically been an imperialistic country, which expands by force (military or otherwise), and is threatened by the concept of "being nice". Ukraine was becoming too nice, Belarus was getting there, and Putin decided it was too risky for him and Russia's power structure.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Frieshansen on February 24, 2022, 08:47:37 PM
Post by: Frieshansen on February 24, 2022, 08:47:37 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 07:43:27 PMThat would have been a solution that would probably have prevented this war. Unfortunately, that was never up for debate. For me, that would have been a deal that both sides could live with.
Let Ukraine alone both of them, NATO and Russia.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 09:37:52 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 09:37:52 PM
Quote from: dreadnaut on February 24, 2022, 08:03:49 PMQuote from: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 07:43:27 PM
Europe should stop doing everything dady USA asks. This conflict and sactionts rises the price of gas in Europe up to now about a 40%. That's insane. There are other ways than invading or expanding military organizations (NATO). Let Ukraine alone both of them, NATO and Russia.
NATO has never invaded anything
I was talking about Russia's current invasion. But yes, NATO did invade Yugoslavia. They bomb the country without a war declaration or UN authorization. It means a war crime.
This is not a good vs evil sides... both are evil and in the middle is the people. You, me, Ukranian people, etc. Europe (eastern and western) would live better without USA and Russia pushing the countries to do what they want.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 24, 2022, 09:54:08 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 24, 2022, 09:54:08 PM
Quote from: Usrin on February 24, 2022, 11:22:08 AM
where distances do not really matter anymore. Chances may be slightly better for the South American pipsqueaks.
Well, I would ask Norwegians whether they chose Stavanger or Debrecen airport to stay at in this case. Or to drive M3 highway in Hungary or some Southern Norwegian highways.
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 07:43:27 PM
Let Ukraine alone both of them, NATO and Russia.
With this perception, World Map would be totally different than you could see now.
Oh, yeah, let ethnic Hungarians, independently from Czech/Romanian/French/British/Russian interests, come back to be annexed to Hungary or at least let them found the autonomous state of Erdély/Vajdaság/Felvidék...
Unfortunately, World Map isn't drawn by ethnic and religious borders. That is the driving force of New World Order.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on February 24, 2022, 10:11:21 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on February 24, 2022, 10:11:21 PM
150 km is about Curitiba to Joinville (about 2 hours by bus).
The nearest pipsqueak from here is Renato Biker, if he don't moved from his place (his district is so near than here that i climbed up a viaduct to record my videoclip and it's in the start of there, only a 15 minutes walk from here.
From another city, I believe that are the São Paulo's pipsqueaks (400 km away).
The nearest pipsqueak from here is Renato Biker, if he don't moved from his place (his district is so near than here that i climbed up a viaduct to record my videoclip and it's in the start of there, only a 15 minutes walk from here.
From another city, I believe that are the São Paulo's pipsqueaks (400 km away).
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 10:34:09 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 24, 2022, 10:34:09 PM
Quote from: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 24, 2022, 09:54:08 PM
With this perception, World Map would be totally different than you could see now.
Yes, a bit naive was my comment :D
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: afullo on February 24, 2022, 11:30:32 PM
Post by: afullo on February 24, 2022, 11:30:32 PM
Quote from: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 24, 2022, 09:54:08 PMIndeed, some Western Ukrainians, ethnically Hungarians, just called for a referendum in order to join Hungary. But it would depend on Putin's interests in controlling also the areas which were under Habsburg rule until WW1, in primis Lviv.
Oh, yeah, let ethnic Hungarians, independently from Czech/Romanian/French/British/Russian interests, come back to be annexed to Hungary or at least let them found the autonomous state of Erdély/Vajdaság/Felvidék...
Unfortunately, World Map isn't drawn by ethnic and religious borders. That is the driving force of New World Order.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: dreadnaut on February 25, 2022, 11:35:53 PM
Post by: dreadnaut on February 25, 2022, 11:35:53 PM
Related, I'll leave this here: a military historian's look at the war near us
https://acoup.blog/2022/02/25/miscellanea-understanding-the-war-in-ukraine/
https://acoup.blog/2022/02/25/miscellanea-understanding-the-war-in-ukraine/
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Cas on February 26, 2022, 03:57:28 AM
Post by: Cas on February 26, 2022, 03:57:28 AM
This is a really complex topic to analyse. Some things are very clear, like, nobody would feel comfortable living in a country that's being bombarded, so this is clearly bad, not good. This war was unilaterally initiated by Russia. Ukraine is just defending. So I think it's pretty simple to reach conclusions from that perspective.
A different matter or "dimension" is what comes when we think about the political influence of the powers, the ideologies they try to spread or to enforce, etc. In this matter, things are pretty much a matter of preference or whim of each person. A matter of priorities. Some people believe that equality is a priority over order; others believe the opposite (although everybody would want both). Some people feel the republican system is priority even if that means we'll have to be governed by somebody we don't like from time to time, because that way there's a moment for everyone, things change all the time. Other people think it's so important to have the kind of leader they like that they don't mind having an eternal autocracy. It really is a matter of taste. We must only not forget that it is.
I personally don't feel that being under the influence of some powers is the problem here. In my opinion, if all countries were more or less just as powerful, there would be even more chaos and probably the existence of a few superpowers is one of the greatest contributing factors to the relative peace that most of the time in most of the globe, we find nowadays, despite there always being exceptions. Of course, I don't mean powers do things because they're so nice... It's just a factual coincidence, that's it. They have their own interests. Also, influence from powers can only be a problem if regional corruption exists. Otherwise, no country would allow that influence to occur. The powers are not to blame for countries following them. Again, my personal insight.
A different matter or "dimension" is what comes when we think about the political influence of the powers, the ideologies they try to spread or to enforce, etc. In this matter, things are pretty much a matter of preference or whim of each person. A matter of priorities. Some people believe that equality is a priority over order; others believe the opposite (although everybody would want both). Some people feel the republican system is priority even if that means we'll have to be governed by somebody we don't like from time to time, because that way there's a moment for everyone, things change all the time. Other people think it's so important to have the kind of leader they like that they don't mind having an eternal autocracy. It really is a matter of taste. We must only not forget that it is.
I personally don't feel that being under the influence of some powers is the problem here. In my opinion, if all countries were more or less just as powerful, there would be even more chaos and probably the existence of a few superpowers is one of the greatest contributing factors to the relative peace that most of the time in most of the globe, we find nowadays, despite there always being exceptions. Of course, I don't mean powers do things because they're so nice... It's just a factual coincidence, that's it. They have their own interests. Also, influence from powers can only be a problem if regional corruption exists. Otherwise, no country would allow that influence to occur. The powers are not to blame for countries following them. Again, my personal insight.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 26, 2022, 12:43:46 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 26, 2022, 12:43:46 PM
My brother (Manowar) explained the conflict in CNN yesterday. He is an international politics analyst.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on March 31, 2022, 09:09:53 PM
Post by: CTG on March 31, 2022, 09:09:53 PM
Coming soon...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Hungarian_parliamentary_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Hungarian_parliamentary_election
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Overdrijf on April 04, 2022, 09:57:53 AM
Post by: Overdrijf on April 04, 2022, 09:57:53 AM
Happy? Excited? Not happy? Rigged? Going to storm the Országház? Fleeing to Ukraine?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Daniel3D on April 04, 2022, 10:17:55 AM
Post by: Daniel3D on April 04, 2022, 10:17:55 AM
Quote from: Overdrijf on April 04, 2022, 09:57:53 AMMostly sad and worried
Happy? Excited? Not happy? Rigged? Going to storm the Országház? Fleeing to Ukraine?
There is not much I can do about the situation. But I am paying for it in a way.
Inflation here has risen a lot, almost 12%, never been so high since WW2.
And although I'm getting in financial problems over it, it does have an impact.
We are safe, and hopefully will stay safe. But it does worry me.
I hope for everyone it will eventually just blow over...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on April 04, 2022, 03:55:31 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on April 04, 2022, 03:55:31 PM
Here we have high devaluation since some years (35-55%) and it's a recurrent cycle. I'm tired about it.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Cas on April 05, 2022, 01:32:28 AM
Post by: Cas on April 05, 2022, 01:32:28 AM
Yes, the Euro and the US Dollar are having a very significant inflation now. I think this will go down slowly in the following two or three years as the economies of countries settle to the new configuration that's come from what's going on. It is also what I hope. As Alan says, in Argentina, we're used to very high inflation and we're currently over 50% inter-annual. We've had it worse around 1989. It's very problematic because salaries never catch up with prices completely. Besides, because of our permanently high inflation, we do have a system that regularly updates salaries, even though it always updates them too low, but it's something. In countries with a historically low and stable inflation rate, my guess is that these updates have to be made individually every now and then, so it's probably more noticeable how purchase power is suddenly being lost.
This now is also having a strong effect on us because Argentines can't rely on local currency for saving and therefore, always fall back to the US Dollar. With these changes, I'm guessing crypto currency will shoot up to the skies.
This now is also having a strong effect on us because Argentines can't rely on local currency for saving and therefore, always fall back to the US Dollar. With these changes, I'm guessing crypto currency will shoot up to the skies.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Overdrijf on April 05, 2022, 09:52:22 AM
Post by: Overdrijf on April 05, 2022, 09:52:22 AM
I was trying to refer to the Hungarian election, but this is good, let it all out. ;D :-[ ;)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: JTK on April 05, 2022, 10:18:34 AM
Post by: JTK on April 05, 2022, 10:18:34 AM
Quote from: Overdrijf on April 04, 2022, 09:57:53 AM
Happy? Excited? Not happy? Rigged? Going to storm the Országház? Fleeing to Ukraine?
The German sight of the Hungarian election outcome: :(
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Usrin on April 06, 2022, 11:15:06 AM
Post by: Usrin on April 06, 2022, 11:15:06 AM
Quote from: JTK on April 05, 2022, 10:18:34 AMQuote from: Overdrijf on April 04, 2022, 09:57:53 AM
Happy? Excited? Not happy? Rigged? Going to storm the Országház? Fleeing to Ukraine?
The German sight of the Hungarian election outcome: :(
My sight of the Hungarian election outcome: (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNV2KBcoxZYp_xF1vtGBilINxozVXwL_IhPr_5oy4&usqp=CAU)
Germans should not forget that Orban got an awful lot of support from Merkel & her government through EU funds and investments, despite all their nice words on the importance of democracy. What really counted was that Orban made Hungary a paradise for German companies, providing cheap workforce, low company taxes, weak environment laws and easily bribed officials.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on April 06, 2022, 01:25:35 PM
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on April 06, 2022, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: JTK on April 05, 2022, 10:18:34 AMQuote from: Overdrijf on April 04, 2022, 09:57:53 AM
Happy? Excited? Not happy? Rigged? Going to storm the Országház? Fleeing to Ukraine?
The German sight of the Hungarian election outcome: :(
Quote from: Usrin on April 06, 2022, 11:15:06 AM
My sight of the Hungarian election outcome: (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNV2KBcoxZYp_xF1vtGBilINxozVXwL_IhPr_5oy4&usqp=CAU)
Most of the people I know thinks the same (including myself)... I truly can't believe the result (especially the overwhelming difference)...
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on February 10, 2024, 10:13:16 PM
Post by: CTG on February 10, 2024, 10:13:16 PM
Bye-bye, Mrs. Muppet:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68264363
But don't worry, her successor won't be better either...
Although I am generally supporting death penalty, pedophiles should not be executed. They will get a "special treatment" in prison for sure - even hardcore criminals are sick of child molesters... so let the prison community to treat them as they deserve.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68264363
But don't worry, her successor won't be better either...
Although I am generally supporting death penalty, pedophiles should not be executed. They will get a "special treatment" in prison for sure - even hardcore criminals are sick of child molesters... so let the prison community to treat them as they deserve.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Cas on February 11, 2024, 04:12:08 PM
Post by: Cas on February 11, 2024, 04:12:08 PM
:o I didn't know of so much scandal! Corruption is everywhere. It's a shame :(
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 11, 2024, 04:50:04 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 11, 2024, 04:50:04 PM
Is the government of Orban (I remember you called "Orbanistan") falling down? Was it a vendetta pushed by the NATO because of Sweden?
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Overdrijf on February 20, 2024, 10:24:20 AM
Post by: Overdrijf on February 20, 2024, 10:24:20 AM
It looks like Mark Rutte is going to be the next NATO chief. Funny, I always figured we should give him to the US so they can make him president. They'd like him there. He'd also be a better option than any if the pensioners we've seen running since 2016. He's right wing enough to be a centrist candidate there, yet more and more internationally oriented. He's well spoken, and quiet about his private life even when he has reasons to brag. He clearly defends the interests of his own office, country and consituents, is clear about his diplomatic objectives, is well connected (but right wing, so fortunately being surrounded by millionaire buddies and CEO acquaintances doesn't make him the elite), keeps all scandals as quiet as possible, lies like nobody else, only fakes having a bad memory rather than really having one, drags his feet on resolving issues yet keeps media attention to this fact to a minimum, and he's always solidly on the side of shareholders of multinationals, who should be pandered to at all times. He's basically the perfect candidate.
As for the job at NATO: I never got the impression he can tell a tank apart from a submarine, but as its mostly a political job he'll probably do fine. Not spectacular, I mean, if Russia does attack the Baltic countries he mught not actually get every country in the fight, but he'll find a way to let some countries stay home while officially and on paper keeping NATO a strong alliance with everyone on board. And the people who get screwed will probably mostly be poor anyway.
There are certainly much worse candidates possible. That's not sarcasm, I truly believe that by the standards of popular politicians he doesn't suck all that bad.
As for the job at NATO: I never got the impression he can tell a tank apart from a submarine, but as its mostly a political job he'll probably do fine. Not spectacular, I mean, if Russia does attack the Baltic countries he mught not actually get every country in the fight, but he'll find a way to let some countries stay home while officially and on paper keeping NATO a strong alliance with everyone on board. And the people who get screwed will probably mostly be poor anyway.
There are certainly much worse candidates possible. That's not sarcasm, I truly believe that by the standards of popular politicians he doesn't suck all that bad.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 20, 2024, 12:55:01 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 20, 2024, 12:55:01 PM
Does really anybody think Russia could attack a NATO member country?
Just think about it 30 seconds... The idea can't stand any logic argument.
Just think about it 30 seconds... The idea can't stand any logic argument.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Matei on February 20, 2024, 01:35:37 PM
Post by: Matei on February 20, 2024, 01:35:37 PM
You may feel safe in Argentina, but in Romania we don't have a crazy guy with a chainsaw to protect us.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Overdrijf on February 20, 2024, 04:24:24 PM
Post by: Overdrijf on February 20, 2024, 04:24:24 PM
But you'll have Mark Rutte! Don't you just feel much safer now?
(https://wnl-static.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2023/05/mark-rutte.gif)
(https://wnl-static.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2023/05/mark-rutte.gif)
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 20, 2024, 06:09:01 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 20, 2024, 06:09:01 PM
Quote from: Matei on February 20, 2024, 01:35:37 PMYou may feel safe in Argentina, but in Romania we don't have a crazy guy with a chainsaw to protect us.
There are different kinds of unsecurity.
1st) we are talking about the possibility or not of an international armed conflict.
2)if a nato country is attacked all the group (bah, let's be honest, the US) will defend you.
3) let's keep in the honest way, just like in the UE there are unnoficial class members. Baltic states and most ex Warsaw pact countries are a class B members from the western point of view (usa, uk, fr, ger...).
4) in Romania you have the Russian-Ukranian conflict pretty close. Not a joke the black sea conflicts with the ukranian grain pact or the maritime drones and mines exploding everywhere very close of your part of the sea. Also the Transnistria problem (a separatist part of Moldova that is separated from the government where Russia has troops).
Anyway, any armed conflict with Russia is out of the table because both sides doesn't want it for several reasons (we can list some of them but I think it's not worth). Both sides will loose a lot whoever will be the war winner, the economic spend will be not a business. And that is what moves the world: money and power.
One different thing is when Nato invaded Iraq or bombed Serbia or Syria. Another different thing is to fight a big strong and nucleat country. It would carry the conflict in a long term war and it is not economic worth.
About Argentina the unsecurity is from another angle. i'm disappointed about the last elections. I felt debastated but we must carry on. The domination from the US is different here. They own us by debt, making from time to time our economy implode. They buy some politicians to work for them. Pretty sad. Our problem is not with a neighbor but with ourselves. Some of our politicians are "employee" of foreign powers and makes desitions against the people. Sad.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: dreadnaut on February 20, 2024, 08:55:47 PM
Post by: dreadnaut on February 20, 2024, 08:55:47 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 20, 2024, 06:09:01 PMOne different thing is when Nato invaded Iraq or bombed Serbia or Syria.
NATO as an organisation was part (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations) (cause? aggravator?) in the mess in Serbia, but was never actually involved in Iraq or Syria. That was all US and "special relations" like the UK, plus Russia and Iran 🤦
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on February 20, 2024, 11:21:48 PM
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on February 20, 2024, 11:21:48 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 20, 2024, 06:09:01 PMArgentina needs to undollarize his economy. The dollarized prices are helping to bring inflaction. And do something like the 94's Brazilian Real Plan to desindex the economy. That plan won a bigger inflaction than the current argentine inflaction.Quote from: Matei on February 20, 2024, 01:35:37 PMYou may feel safe in Argentina, but in Romania we don't have a crazy guy with a chainsaw to protect us.
There are different kinds of unsecurity.
1st) we are talking about the possibility or not of an international armed conflict.
2)if a nato country is attacked all the group (bah, let's be honest, the US) will defend you.
3) let's keep in the honest way, just like in the UE there are unnoficial class members. Baltic states and most ex Warsaw pact countries are a class B members from the western point of view (usa, uk, fr, ger...).
4) in Romania you have the Russian-Ukranian conflict pretty close. Not a joke the black sea conflicts with the ukranian grain pact or the maritime drones and mines exploding everywhere very close of your part of the sea. Also the Transnistria problem (a separatist part of Moldova that is separated from the government where Russia has troops).
Anyway, any armed conflict with Russia is out of the table because both sides doesn't want it for several reasons (we can list some of them but I think it's not worth). Both sides will loose a lot whoever will be the war winner, the economic spend will be not a business. And that is what moves the world: money and power.
One different thing is when Nato invaded Iraq or bombed Serbia or Syria. Another different thing is to fight a big strong and nucleat country. It would carry the conflict in a long term war and it is not economic worth.
About Argentina the unsecurity is from another angle. i'm disappointed about the last elections. I felt debastated but we must carry on. The domination from the US is different here. They own us by debt, making from time to time our economy implode. They buy some politicians to work for them. Pretty sad. Our problem is not with a neighbor but with ourselves. Some of our politicians are "employee" of foreign powers and makes desitions against the people. Sad.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: Duplode on February 21, 2024, 12:42:30 AM
Post by: Duplode on February 21, 2024, 12:42:30 AM
Quote from: dreadnaut on February 20, 2024, 08:55:47 PMUS and "special relations" like the UK
"Coalition of the willing" 😬
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 21, 2024, 01:42:52 AM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 21, 2024, 01:42:52 AM
Quote from: dreadnaut on February 20, 2024, 08:55:47 PMQuote from: alanrotoi on February 20, 2024, 06:09:01 PMOne different thing is when Nato invaded Iraq or bombed Serbia or Syria.
NATO as an organisation was part (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations) (cause? aggravator?) in the mess in Serbia, but was never actually involved in Iraq or Syria. That was all US and "special relations" like the UK, plus Russia and Iran 🤦
I mean 2003's invassion of Iraq. You are right it wasn't NATO saying "I will invade" but it was an international coalition invading the country where half of them were NATO members: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq
PS: Anyway, officially NATO was there with a small contingent of around 150 advisers under the collective command NATO Training Mission – Iraq (withdrawn 12/11). Still invaders.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: dreadnaut on February 21, 2024, 07:47:10 PM
Post by: dreadnaut on February 21, 2024, 07:47:10 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 21, 2024, 01:42:52 AMI mean 2003's invassion of Iraq. You are right it wasn't NATO saying "I will invade" but it was an international coalition invading the country where half of them were NATO members: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq
Yep, I also meant that one. The article you link is to the third group, in 2004, which also included support from Jordan and UAE. All of the country involved where also UN members, but you don't say "the UN invaded".
The first (and second) forces to actually invade Iraq (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq) a year earlier where US, UK, Australia and Poland. Good chunks of of the EU (or NATO, if you prefer) at the time were going "WTF are you doing?! 😱" And then the whole false documentation about weapons of mass destruction thing followed.
Well, the only point I wanted to make is that NATO messed up badly in the ex-Yugoslavia area, and did some work to avoid doing the same mistakes later. Iraq 2003 was a US led (misled?) thing, and NATO as a structure only participate as you described, with instructors and trainers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Training_Mission_%E2%80%93_Iraq) for what (at that point, and with all caveats) was the recognised government. Happy for you to call them "invaders", but I prefer to remember the difference between 160'000 soldiers entering a country with weapons, with the idea of "we don't like what's going on here, we'll shoot people", and 160 people two years later, with the mission of "ok, there's a mess here now, can we help create some stability?"
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: alanrotoi on February 21, 2024, 08:10:55 PM
Post by: alanrotoi on February 21, 2024, 08:10:55 PM
Exactly. NATO wasn't invading there officially or it wasn't an invasion from NATO. Some members and other countries did.
The strange and complexity of the Syrian civil war is kida difficult. There are so many sides! And those sides sometimes (not always) work together. Morever some member of the same side out of this conflic are fighting or supporting different sides in other conflicts! Insane!
Sides (more or less):
-USA + friends (can't remember well but Belgium, UK, Australia... something like that):
They attack Syrian government and ISIS and are against Russia and Turkey but they don't attack them directly. They support Free Syrian Army and the Kurds in the north.
-Turkey: attacks Syrian government, the Kurds and ISIS. Against Russia and USA but don't attack them directly (remember Turkey is a NATO member!) They collaborate with USA against ISIS and Syria.
-Kurds: backed by USA in the war against Syria and ISIS. They are at war with Syria and Turkey and ISIS. (not sure what happens with Free Syrian Army)
-Syrian Rebels or Free Syrian Army: Against Syrian government, Russia and ISIS.
-Russia: supports Syria against Turkey, the rebels, USA and friends, ISIS, not sure about Kurds.
-Syria: attacks Kurds, Rebels, ISIS. Against USA, Turkey and against Israel...
Oh yes! I didn't tell you, Israel is there too.
-Israel: attacks Syrian government and Hezbollah. Supports the rebels and made business with ISIS.
-Hezbollah: attacks Israel.
This list is brief and uncomplete so know this is a very complex area of conflict because there are more than one conflicts and interests.
The strange and complexity of the Syrian civil war is kida difficult. There are so many sides! And those sides sometimes (not always) work together. Morever some member of the same side out of this conflic are fighting or supporting different sides in other conflicts! Insane!
Sides (more or less):
-USA + friends (can't remember well but Belgium, UK, Australia... something like that):
They attack Syrian government and ISIS and are against Russia and Turkey but they don't attack them directly. They support Free Syrian Army and the Kurds in the north.
-Turkey: attacks Syrian government, the Kurds and ISIS. Against Russia and USA but don't attack them directly (remember Turkey is a NATO member!) They collaborate with USA against ISIS and Syria.
-Kurds: backed by USA in the war against Syria and ISIS. They are at war with Syria and Turkey and ISIS. (not sure what happens with Free Syrian Army)
-Syrian Rebels or Free Syrian Army: Against Syrian government, Russia and ISIS.
-Russia: supports Syria against Turkey, the rebels, USA and friends, ISIS, not sure about Kurds.
-Syria: attacks Kurds, Rebels, ISIS. Against USA, Turkey and against Israel...
Oh yes! I didn't tell you, Israel is there too.
-Israel: attacks Syrian government and Hezbollah. Supports the rebels and made business with ISIS.
-Hezbollah: attacks Israel.
This list is brief and uncomplete so know this is a very complex area of conflict because there are more than one conflicts and interests.
Title: Re: Politics around the world
Post by: CTG on April 12, 2024, 12:40:06 AM
Post by: CTG on April 12, 2024, 12:40:06 AM
I can't really follow the Hungarian politics reality show.
skid off Gyurcsány, Orbán, Magyar, Varga, whatever...
skid off Gyurcsány, Orbán, Magyar, Varga, whatever...