Stunts Forum

The track is ready, there might be an update tonight, but most likely only tomorrow night.

I did the update tonight, the race is on!
Congratulations to Ayrton, who dominated throughout the race, and thank for everyone who didn't get demotivated from this, and kept on racing.

Now explore the new track, but beware, the Indy gets now 1.5% penalty time, as it finished on all three podium places.
Cars which were not used on zct80 gained a +0.5% bonus coefficient.

Nice layout! But Indy looks powerful again... :-\ I must spend more than 5 mins. before jumping to conclusions, however.

the indy can be always a suprise... There was a PG entry point I have not tested carefully.
I don't want to modify the track, so the the Indy gets an additional 25% "Power Gear Penalty" on this track.

conclusion: I'll never ever publish a track again with only 30 minutes of testing... sorry!

Well it's good to hear you're all doing so well :) I had quite a hard time getting power gear on the first hill, and once I did, I got penalty time for skipping the corkscrews... Hmm.

By the way Zak: how much time did you spend on the scenery compared to the track?

Quote from: BonzaiJoe on February 01, 2008, 10:58:21 AM
By the way Zak: how much time did you spend on the scenery compared to the track?

I guess at least the same amount. The track was born from the scenery, as usual ;)

You know those products where the packaging and the whole look is awesome, but the product is awful in quality? Wel this is ZCT81 ;)

Indy: 20% penalty. last word, no more changes. (25 may be a bit too harsh)

damn, I'm confused.

check the poll please and explain!

When modifying the penalty I think it would be fair to change it so, that the leader (with Indy) would be still leading with 1-2 seconds on the first pipsqueak without the indy after modifications made. Final modifactions have to be made in the first week. It's enough to know most of the power gear spots and tricks on the track.
Of course this could be applied to other PG cars too. 
What do you think?

I agree.

Counting only the proposed alternatives, my vote goes for no. 2 as stated by Zak just above. However, I feel blocking the heaviest PG routes would be ideal but not  with water - as it sorta restricts design possibilities and lines for other cars as well. Instead, perhaps defining PG-free sections on the track map as suitable would keep things even on most tracks with minimal twisting of design.

And if Indy specialists will hide their times in first week, sending a strong lap only after it will be established the final percentages...?  ::) I think that the only way that permits to Indy to participate without blinding too much the race, it's a reasonable and well-studied design, even if it demands more time, sure. About this race, no problem for me, Zak, act as you think is better.

Imo the whole procedure is not volatile enough. Under official rules, the indy ONLY loses 1,5% (or 2%) to the other cars if it conquered the whole podium!

1,5%!!! And that despite that you can beat the other cars between 20-30 seconds usually!

So the system does not work at all. Your solution: Manually set bigger penalties.
Maybe fix the system instead?

I am also against blocking the whole track with water. This takes a lot away from stunts if you look at beautifull former replays!

Maybe use something like this:

Car on 1st place: 10% penalty
Car on 2nd place: 5% penalty
Car on 3rd place: 2,5% penalty

Extra rule: Car conquers whole podium: 25% penalty.

Maybe in this case the car which does that will not be used next track? But it will recover for sure! And cars will fluctuate over the season.

Your numbers are way to small  ;).

I voted for 2nd choice too. My thinking is similar to yours, Zak, but Mark's point about hidden replay is also true. I think maybe car's penalty can be increased a bit, Argammon's way. And banning a car if it conquers the entire podium for a race could work, too.

Bigger penalties - although not as radical change as Arg said. My suggestion is 2% for victory, 1% for second place, 0.5% for third place - 5% for the full podium. On the other hand track design can help a lot. I think you should combine these two factors.

Keep Indy and make closed tracks! Or any restrictions for the winner car like one wheel over the track rule in the next race.

ok, the vote has been cast, thank you for your opinion!

In the future:

• I'll be much more careful at track designing
  
• Coeff. penalties will be the following: 4% for winner car, 2% for second, 1% for third. Whole podium by one car: 10%. Unused cars gain a 2% bonus.
  
• No car bans, no track reissues guaranteed.
  

On current track:
I'll apply the new rules for the first track retrospectively:

• Instead of the current 20% special announced + 1.5% of the Indy, it'll have 20% + 10% = 30% penalty. From ZCT82 this special 20% will not be used - unless again needed. This is called Power Gear Penalty, and will be in detail described in the rules (can be set only throughout the first week of the race, in case there was a design flaw in the track.
  
• Unused cars gain 2% instead of 0.5% set previously. 
  

This will settle it, I guess.
And sorry for the trouble!

One more question remains: Should I round up/down the coefficients from the next track to whole numbers? There are no fractions anymore in the new system.

It's getting more and more interesting with Acura and Carrera!

Ayrton - Indy - 1:02.05

Let's see the possibilities with other cars where the key point is the cork up/down drivethrough speed:

Acura NSX 1:28.00 - not impossible but close to maxed out version
Audi Quattro and Lancia Delta Integrale 1:24.70 - this is nonsense
Chevrolet Corvette 1:29.30 - very hard but might mork
Ferrari GTO 1:26.80 - no way, unless Argammon tries it
Jaguar XJR IMSA 1:11.10 - this time NO
Lamborghini Countach 1:29.00 - forget it
Lamborghini LM002 1:35.10 - with hyper-extreme luck... but I dont think so
Porsche 962 IMSA 1:08.95 - muhahaha, can't imagine
Porsche Carrera 1:31.90 - maybe the most chanceful

From Topic "ZakStunts 2008 - Final rules and information":

Quote from: Mark L. Rivers on December 29, 2007, 06:24:49 AM

Quote from: Krys TOFF on December 18, 2007, 03:47:28 PM
What about some of the cheated cars (those with some realistic behaviour : Melange, Speedgate, Pulsar Coronet, ... Not Niva Comeback or so) ?

Quote from: Duplode on December 18, 2007, 03:55:30 PM
And I'd like to see some cheat cars too - though I believe Speedgate might have negative %...

Zak, so what about these cheated cars...? Will we see them in ZakStunts 2008?

Quote from: zaqrack on December 29, 2007, 08:29:01 AM
not yet. They might be available later this year. I think they'd overthrow the balance towards the faster cars. But maybe not.

Zak, it's clear that, in order of the track design, a quite high number of cars could be discarded every time from the fight for the win (for example in ZCT81 Lancia, Audi, Porsche 962, Jaguar and Countach are out, in next race maybe there won't be place for other ones...). So, maybe the introduction of Melange XGT-88, Coronet Pulsar STi, Speedgate XSD and LWT-ZR1 GT3 Mark II (no Powergear cars) would add a higher choice and a more dazzling fight. It's true that you have not much time to test them, and that it will be necessary a period of tuning to individuate correctly their own coefficient. But it seems we are anyway in an unavoidable general period of tuning, and you could avail it to test these cars... So you could insert them (maybe as "unofficial cars") with a certain coefficient and, in order of the results got with them, you could tune more accurately their effectively potential. If you want, you could exclude them from the classification for one or two race, but, meanwhile, you could understand better the initial coefficient wherewith insert them in the fight.
What do you think about, Zak?  :)

Quote from: Mark L. Rivers on February 06, 2008, 08:23:34 AM

What do you think about, Zak?  :)

Well, I think the choice is yours: http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=2105.0

Maybe a Nizza type track would change your mind totally... Don't you remember it? The overcrowded indoor arena on a 8*8 terrain. ;D

Quote from: CTG on February 06, 2008, 03:55:57 AM
Ayrton - Indy - 1:02.05

Let's see the possibilities with other cars where the key point is the cork up/down drivethrough speed:

Acura NSX 1:28.00 - not impossible but close to maxed out version
Audi Quattro and Lancia Delta Integrale 1:24.70 - this is nonsense
Chevrolet Corvette 1:29.30 - very hard but might mork
Ferrari GTO 1:26.80 - no way, unless Argammon tries it
Jaguar XJR IMSA 1:11.10 - this time NO
Lamborghini Countach 1:29.00 - forget it
Lamborghini LM002 1:35.10 - with hyper-extreme luck... but I dont think so
Porsche 962 IMSA 1:08.95 - muhahaha, can't imagine
Porsche Carrera 1:31.90 - maybe the most chanceful

All cars can beat that time, most of them relatively easy ...

Whoa :) there is something we don't know

We know it: Alain plays non-stop...

So Ayrton was hiding his indy time until Zak announced not to change the bonuses again. And the podium will consist of 3 indy cars like last time.  ;D

Then the indy has already conquered 2 podiums out of 12 races. In all seasons before we didn't have any more indys in zakstunts. So you could basically ban the car from the rest of the races now.  ;D

Quote from: Argammon on February 07, 2008, 10:55:26 PM
So Ayrton was hiding his indy time until Zak announced not to change the bonuses again. And the podium will consist of 3 indy cars like last time.  ;D

Then the indy has already conquered 2 podiums out of 12 races. In all seasons before we didn't have any more indys in zakstunts. So you could basically ban the car from the rest of the races now.  ;D

I don´t was consider the announcement when i send my time, like i´wasn´t consider the others ...

Quote from: zaqrack on February 01, 2008, 07:36:22 PM
Indy: 20% penalty. last word, no more changes. (25 may be a bit too harsh)

Quote from: Ayrton on February 08, 2008, 12:57:03 AM


I don´t was consider the announcement when i send my time, like i´wasn´t consider the others ...

Quote from: zaqrack on February 01, 2008, 07:36:22 PM
Indy: 20% penalty. last word, no more changes. (25 may be a bit too harsh)

well, sorry again for this one. It's hard to find the balance with the new system, but I think the current percentages on this track are fair and fine.

You´re right Zak, but i don´t think that the total balance will be reached in one track, specially with PG cars, but the actual bonuses and penalties % are good for a fast rotation of the cars with possibilities to win.

I still have the feeling a power gear car will win with a considerably gap to the best placed non power gear car.

But let's see who will be right in the end. ;)

I think Carrera is not a good idea... Not for me...  :-[