Stunts Forum

Stunts - the Game => Stunts Reverse Engineering => Topic started by: Zapper on July 27, 2010, 06:18:39 PM

Title: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Zapper on July 27, 2010, 06:18:39 PM
My experience with editing VCE files was, back in 2002, very basic. I had to use Microsoft EDIT (DOS aplication) to change some bytes of these files.

Using this EDIT app (EDIT.COM) that still remains in Windows Xp (system32 folder) I was able to get some "patterns" on ASCII bytes and discover some samples used by engine, skids, crash, and other sound that were used in game.

But I had to use EDIT with "open in binary" switch option to see byte values.
Getting it straight, on windows command prompt you write this:
 
edit /93 pceng1.vce <- for pc sound editing.
edit /100 adeng1.vce <- for ad sound editing.

Then you will see this:   (for pc speaker)
(http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2570.0;attach=7853;image)

Next I show what I had written in 2002 to explain what I had edit and its consequences:
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5379/image1apu.png)(broken image link)

Note: above pictures show content files that were written by me. EDT file extension is not used on game.

For Adlib(SoundBlaster) its very similar to edit.

Now I will show what I had analysed in sound file content, taking Adlib file as example:
(http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2570.0;attach=7855;image)
(this is a mod screenshot to show all content bytes on original and mod files in horizontal split screen)

Has you can see there is a STOPSTARENGIBLOWSKIDSCRABUMPCRAS text on first line, spacing these chars in logic words, it identifies 8 words that is the number of rows below the first text line of the file content.

Assuming this, Stop sound sample code corresponds to the first line, Star(t) the second, The third is for Engi(ne) sound and so on.

I don't know what all chars do in each line, I tried to change on by one, but the most relevant were those that I point at pictures above.

And that is some of what I remember of this. All suggestions are welcome to get this sound sampling code revealed.

Cheers

Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: llm on July 29, 2010, 07:51:13 AM
nice work but... why on earth don't you use a real hex-editor like http://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/ (http://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/) or others?
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Zapper on July 29, 2010, 09:50:42 AM
Because at that time, in 2002 I was no such expert on file editing, rarely had internet access to get more powerfull tools, so I work with the tools I had on my system.

To get this in this topic I had to go to my old Pentium 100 and backup my "note files".

Today it would be different of course, but has I stated earlier, I post what I remember that I did at that time, literally.


Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: CTG on December 09, 2011, 11:07:19 PM
B Ö Ö Ö Ö Ö Ö Ö Ö F F ! ! !
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Duplode on December 10, 2011, 12:24:28 AM
Since this is a sound effects thread, it's of course very natural that the the böff must be louder, and modulated as well.
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Zapper on December 12, 2011, 01:31:29 AM
What does it mean "Böff"?

Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: BonzaiJoe on December 12, 2011, 10:43:48 AM
What does it mean "Böff"?

It means "I'm gay".
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Chulk on December 12, 2011, 04:22:54 PM
What does it mean "Böff"?

It means "I'm gay".
So "Böff" means Bonzai Joe is gay? Or it means I (Chulk) am gay? I'm confused!!!
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: CTG on December 12, 2011, 09:35:04 PM
What does it mean "Böff"?

It means "I'm gay".

I always knew that BJ is homo.
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: BonzaiJoe on December 12, 2011, 09:55:18 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quote_sign
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: CTG on December 12, 2011, 10:09:10 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quote_sign

You are an öblös one. ;D
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: BonzaiJoe on December 12, 2011, 10:33:20 PM
A gay from a bay.
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: CTG on December 12, 2011, 10:54:04 PM
A gay from a bay.

He admitted. Beware guys, this is a danger zone for your ass. ;D
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Zapper on December 12, 2011, 11:44:42 PM
Ok, so you all are go thrashing this thread?
Please, there is an appropriate section to do that!

If you write some thing, do it "ontopic" only.
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: CTG on December 13, 2011, 01:50:49 AM
Btw böff is stomach gas, belch, whatever... :D
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: dstien on December 13, 2011, 02:11:37 PM
VCEs are Stunts resource archives. Working on the MIDI file conversion (http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=2560.msg46214#msg46214) I identified some values in the MT-32 voices file that holds MIDI controller data:
Code: [Select]
char *vce = findResource(vceBuf, seq->voices[i].id);

if (vce == NULL) {
  seq->voices[i].enabled = false;
}
else {
  seq->voices[i].enabled   = true;
  seq->voices[i].channel   = vce[0x43];
  seq->voices[i].program   = vce[0x44];
  seq->voices[i].volume    = vce[0x45];
  seq->voices[i].pan       = vce[0x46];
  seq->voices[i].transpose = vce[0x10];
  seq->voices[i].hasHits   = vce[0x25];
}
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: CTG on October 25, 2012, 09:23:05 AM
I need a deep engine voice for the airplanes. Is it possible to solve?
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: CTG on August 07, 2013, 09:33:54 AM
It would be cool to have a main theme remix to replace the old one. But I guess music file editing has no priority. :)
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Duplode on August 07, 2013, 04:16:02 PM
I need a deep engine voice for the airplanes. Is it possible to solve?

Probably not unless you don't mind all other vehicles being affected (cf. Zapper's sound pack).
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Zapper on July 14, 2021, 01:24:41 AM
Hi,

Visiting this maturated topic, I found that some images were lost with imageshack... so I tried to fix some of those included in the first topic.

Also related to this topic I recently discovered an edited VCE file (different than the ones included in Zapper's Sound Pack) in my old laptop... so I decided to share it here:

ADENG1T3.VCE (http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2570.0;attach=7857) (Just copy over adeng1.vce after making it's backup)

This version has an good engine sound match for Flat-6 or V6 engines as Adlib/SoundBlaster sound effects.

Try and enjoy.
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: llm on July 14, 2021, 09:05:58 AM
VCEs are Stunts resource archives. Working on the MIDI file conversion (http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=2560.msg46214#msg46214) I identified some values in the MT-32 voices file that holds MIDI controller data:
Code: [Select]
char *vce = findResource(vceBuf, seq->voices[i].id);

if (vce == NULL) {
  seq->voices[i].enabled = false;
}
else {
  seq->voices[i].enabled   = true;
  seq->voices[i].channel   = vce[0x43];
  seq->voices[i].program   = vce[0x44];
  seq->voices[i].volume    = vce[0x45];
  seq->voices[i].pan       = vce[0x46];
  seq->voices[i].transpose = vce[0x10];
  seq->voices[i].hasHits   = vce[0x25];
}

i found similar offsets while doing my MT15.DRV reverse engineering project - attached is the C-Source part of the Driver
there are some struct-members with the same offset that are used in drv function calls

see
Code: [Select]
struct1_t
  ...
  byte_44
  byte_45
  byte_46

used in code as

Line 878: send_program_change_midi_msg(channel_, buffer_->byte_44);
Line 918: send_pan_control_change_midi_msg(channel_, buffer_->byte_46);
Line 922: send_volume_control_change_midi_msg(channel_, buffer_->byte_45);

sames as

Code: [Select]
  seq->voices[i].program   = vce[0x44];
  seq->voices[i].volume    = vce[0x45];
  seq->voices[i].pan       = vce[0x46];


Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Zapper on July 14, 2021, 05:00:32 PM
Definitely the implmentation of adlib vce file seems to be similar with mt32, but parameter addresses should have different goals and in other numbers since this effects are played differently.
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: llm on July 14, 2021, 08:33:16 PM
Definitely the implmentation of adlib vce file seems to be similar with mt32, but parameter addresses should have different goals and in other numbers since this effects are played differently.

is a full descriptione of the VCE format available somewhere?
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Zapper on July 16, 2021, 12:15:08 AM
Definitely the implmentation of adlib vce file seems to be similar with mt32, but parameter addresses should have different goals and in other numbers since this effects are played differently.

is a full descriptione of the VCE format available somewhere?

I also would like to discover that, but for now, just guessing and messing with bytes. ;)
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Daniel3D on July 16, 2021, 12:05:32 PM
I don't know if you can use this. But I have found a modding resource about the file type.
https://moddingwiki.shikadi.net/wiki/Kris%27_Music_System_Voice_Format (https://moddingwiki.shikadi.net/wiki/Kris%27_Music_System_Voice_Format)
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Daniel3D on July 16, 2021, 01:08:39 PM
Also maybe useful. A list of games that use the same music system.
http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=KMS (http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=KMS)

Released   Title   Sample
1990-10-??   Stunts (DOS)   
1990-??-??   4D Sports Tennis (DOS)   
1990-??-??   Bill Elliott's NASCAR Challenge (DOS)   
1990-??-??   Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles (DOS)   
1991-??-??   4-D Boxing (DOS)   
1991-??-??   Mission: Impossible (DOS)   
1992-??-??   The Simpsons: Bart's House of Weirdness (DOS)   
1993-??-??   Michael Jordan In Flight (DOS)   
1993-??-??   NHL 93 (DOS)   
1993-??-??   World Tour Tennis (DOS)   
1994-??-??   NHL 95 (DOS)
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: llm on July 19, 2021, 10:57:20 AM
@Daniel3D

do you know which of them also got a MT15.drv or variants of it - i've heard (don't know the source anymore) that there are even more tiny differences MT15.drv exist - then the variants in Stunts 1.0/1.1 - a search for " DSI " in all the files could reveal them (even if different named) - but i think only the MT32 supporting games from that list are relevant for the MT15.drv relevant investigation

would be great to have them all - i would include the differences in my C port of the driver

my next goal is to write an MT15.drv based player to play the game sounds outside of the game

so the next question is: which of the above games support MT32? - except the ones we know, its easier for me analysing the VCE stuff from the MT32 direction because i know more details in that area

a list of Game + exact Release Date + MD5 of the MT15.DRV and MT32.PLB would be great
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Daniel3D on July 20, 2021, 06:54:15 PM
Quote
@Daniel3D

do you know which of them also got a MT15.drv or variants of it - i've heard (don't know the source anymore) that there are even more tiny differences MT15.drv exist - then the variants in Stunts 1.0/1.1 - a search for " DSI " in all the files could reveal them (even if different named) - but i think only the MT32 supporting games from that list are relevant for the MT15.drv relevant investigation
Well, I don't know.
I found this when I was looking for information on the Kms file.
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: llm on July 21, 2021, 08:40:31 AM
some of them containing MT15.drv(and MT32.PLB) and the the other sound drivers + bunch of VCE files  - in different versions (seem to be fixes in the timing code) or content - seems to be a very good source for VCE,MIDI sound analysing

1990-10-??   Stunts (DOS)    <-- contains MT15.DRV+VCEs+MT32.PLB
1990-??-??   4D Sports Tennis (DOS)      <-- contains MT15.DRV+VCEs+MT32.PLB
1990-??-??   Bill Elliott's NASCAR Challenge (DOS)      <-- contains MT15.DRV+MT32.PLB and other VCEs+DRVS
1990-??-??   Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles (DOS)    <-- contains DRV (no MT15) +VCEs
1991-??-??   4-D Boxing (DOS)       <-- contains MT15.DRV+VCEs+MT32.PLB
1991-??-??   Mission: Impossible (DOS)   <-- contains MT15.DRV+VCEs+MT32.PLB
1992-??-??   The Simpsons: Bart's House of Weirdness (DOS)    <-- contains MT15.DRV+MT32.PLB and other VCEs+DRVS
1993-??-??   Michael Jordan In Flight (DOS)   <-- contains MT15.DRV+MT32.PLB and other VCEs+ many different other sound-source DRVS
1993-??-??   NHL 93 (DOS)   <- MT30.BGP seems to be the MT32-sound driver, HOCKEY.EXE seems to have integrated MT32 support
1993-??-??   World Tour Tennis (DOS)   <-- contains MT15.DRV+VCEs+no MT32.PLB
1994-??-??   NHL 95 (DOS) <-- contains some KMS files

there are several changed versions of MT15.drv (and other drvs) around - also the contained MT32.PLB (sounds etc.) are different (much bigger or smaller then stunts)

could be funny to test if the different MT15.DRV and MT32.PLBs work with Stunts (some of the driver a litte bit bigger, some are 2-3 kilobytes larger)
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: GTAMan18 on July 25, 2021, 07:05:29 AM
Zapper, your V6 driver (ADENG1T3.VCE) sounds like a V10 with a Formula 1 car. So let's call it a Formula 1 V10 driver, okay?
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: GTAMan18 on July 25, 2021, 07:10:59 AM
Zapper, your V6 driver (ADENG1T3.VCE) sounds like a V10 with a Formula 1 car. So let's call it a Formula 1 V10 driver, okay?

Proof
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Zapper on July 25, 2021, 12:44:03 PM
Zapper, your V6 driver (ADENG1T3.VCE) sounds like a V10 with a Formula 1 car. So let's call it a Formula 1 V10 driver, okay?

Hi GTAMan18, if it's suitable as a V10 let it be also known as for this type of racing engines ;)
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Ryoma on July 25, 2021, 05:50:12 PM
It's not a v10 @ 20000rpm
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: llm on August 02, 2021, 03:16:11 PM
what i've know so far:

these are the files that i seem fit together

3.571 AD15.DRV <- adlib sound card driver
1.152 ADENG1.VCE
3.008 ADSKIDMS.VCE

1.750 MT15.DRV <- 100% revesed into C code and i know what the thing is doing
  976 MTENG1.VCE
1.184 MTSKIDMS.VCE
1.271 MT32.PLB <- Engine Sounds/Crash Sound etc.

2.227 PC15.DRV <- pc speaker driver
1.049 PCENG1.VCE
1.232 PCSKIDMS.VCE

2.993 TD15.DRV <- tandy sound driver (special tandy sound chip?)
  912 TDENG1.VCE
2.528 TDSKIDMS.VCE

4.303 SKIDOVER.KMS <-- over-what?
8.612 SKIDSLCT.KMS <-- selection/menu music?
2.590 SKIDTITL.KMS <-- title music?
4.221 SKIDVICT.KMS <-- victory music?

i think the *ENG1* are engine sounds
no idea what *SKIDMS" means

https://moddingwiki.shikadi.net/wiki/Stunts

*.kms "Kris' Music System Format" - Music
https://moddingwiki.shikadi.net/wiki/Kris%27_Music_System_Format

*.vce "Kris' Music System Voice Format" - Instruments for background music
https://moddingwiki.shikadi.net/wiki/Kris%27_Music_System_Voice_Format
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Daniel3D on August 02, 2021, 03:41:02 PM
Skid is the game (project) code. In 4D boxing it has box in that place.
The ms stands for music or something alike.

Skidover is the game over / lose high score screen music.
Skidvict is the game win / finish high score screen music

The **skidms.vce files have the instrument information for the skid****.Kms files.

If you rename the VCE files from boxing you get the stunts song with different instruments..
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: llm on August 02, 2021, 04:04:06 PM
Skid

super-self-facepalm!

"skid" is a english word that also means sling, slide, spin - like, for example, a too fast car on the street :)
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: llm on August 02, 2021, 04:11:53 PM
the VCEs contain ascii strings

example:
ADENG1.VCE: STOPSTARENGIBLOWSKIDSCRABUMPCRAS (stop,star(t),engin(n),blow,skid,scra(tch),bump,cras(h))
GREENG.SFX: BLOWBUMPCRASSCRASKI2SKIDSTARSTOPMTIN (blow, bump, cras(h), ski(d)2,skid,start,stop,mtin?) <-- seems to be some sort of VCE
TDENG1.VCE: STARSKIDSTOPCRASBLOWENGIBUMPSCRA (start,skid, stop,cras(h),blow,engi(n),bump,scra(tch))

Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Daniel3D on August 02, 2021, 05:44:04 PM
Skid

super-self-facepalm!

"skid" is a english word that also means sling, slide, spin - like, for example, a too fast car on the street :)

I'm getting the feeling that STUNTS was named SKID when developing started.
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: llm on August 02, 2021, 10:31:04 PM
Skid

super-self-facepalm!

"skid" is a english word that also means sling, slide, spin - like, for example, a too fast car on the street :)

I'm getting the feeling that STUNTS was named SKID when developing started.

and then the marketing guys entered the room
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Daniel3D on August 02, 2021, 10:51:06 PM
I think they were planning on making test drive 3. They made test drive 2 with Accolade.
The may have pitched this idea for test drive 3, but Accolade got the job and DSI was left out.
So they made their own game out of it. They would need a working title that doesn't smell like test drive rip off.  :D
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: alanrotoi on August 21, 2021, 01:41:05 PM
I think you could use the VCE from 4d Sports Tennis too ;)
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Zapper on October 22, 2021, 11:58:57 PM
Hello you all,

A few days ago I discovered "Mario Andretti's Racing Challenge" game by the fact that it uses the same sound effects file format as Stunts. This time it uses the ".pcv" extension which is the packed .vce file for "Kris' Music System Voice Format".

This game has the particularity of using different engine sound for each of it's type of racing cars (Formula1, Indycar, Sprint, Stockcar, Modified, and Prototypes).

(http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2570.0;attach=8508;image)

By knowing this, my curiosity simply got me into checking how this sound file have inside. So I unpacked ADENG1.PVC in Stressed application and easily find out all this resources:

(http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2570.0;attach=8502;image)

Unfortunately I tried to compare the content with Stunts ADENG1.VCE in Stressed but it results in error:

(http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2570.0;attach=8504;image)

So as an alternative I used HxD to read all it's contents and found what I suspect, just by listening the in game engine sound of Mario Andretti's Racing Challenge's StockCar (also like "formula1" and "modified" cars), that some cars have the same car engine sound of stunts (for AdLib at least):
(http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2570.0;attach=8506;image)


The INDY(car), SPNT(Sprint) and PROT(otype) resources are different engine sounds, so I copy each one to ENGI(ne) of stunts ADENG1.VCE and it worked just fine!



 
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: KyLiE on October 23, 2021, 03:52:19 AM
That's a great find Zapper!  I haven't played Mario Andretti's Racing Challenge for quite some time, but in your opinion, do any of the engine sounds offer an improvement over those originally included in Stunts?
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Daniel3D on October 23, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
It seems that the sound for skid and crash are the same as well.
To bad that stunts does not differentiate different engine types.

How does it compare to 'zappers engine sounds'
Or did you change that in the KMS?
Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Zapper on October 23, 2021, 12:54:27 PM
Those engine sounds comparing to the original sound of stunts are almost the same quality.

I've copied each engine sound from "MARC" that are different than Stunts (Indy, Prototype and Sprint versions) and replicate them in several ADE____.VCE files for using in Stunts (check the attached zip), to use them just rename each one to ADENG1.VCE.


Title: Re: Sound Files Editing (VCE)
Post by: Daniel3D on October 25, 2021, 09:55:41 PM
Really cool.
The indy has a more F1 vibe to it.
The proto has bit lower vibration.,
The sprint has i think the nicest. I like the idle sound. sounds lazy. I think it fits the dodge.
(terrible descriptions, i know. Don't know much about engines)

I renamed them into separate folders, so I can quickly swap them.
Attached for whoever wants them.

Thanks Zapper for the research. Gives a bit more life to the game,