Stunts Forum

ZakStunts - the Competition => Competition and Website => Topic started by: zaqrack on April 30, 2003, 10:01:06 PM

Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: zaqrack on April 30, 2003, 10:01:06 PM
Work will start with the beginning of june, this will be mainly a design job, because I re-organized the system with v.4.5, but still some code related things to do too.
Write here things that`d like to see, and awaiting your comments as well.

things gathered until now:

news display will be completely rewritten, possibly with the usage of somery, a blog system. It also supports commenting the news, I dont see why to allow that because we have the forum, but if you want it, maybe.

complete redesigning the menu system, cleaner, simpler, and finally a complete and usable archive page is planned.

new design of course, I`m planning 3 colour schemes with a bit varied design you could choose from. One of these will be optimized for 1024x768 possibly, others for 800x600.
new design will contain more design elements than this one.

want to leave frames, but I have to read through some technical stuff before this, looks like I can manage it. Not sure about this yet.

auto notification system recoded by myself, so it`ll work finally

at seasons results you`ll see that a pipsqueak raced on the given track, or just got 0 points.

support in code for 11 best results count/year rule. yeah, I was lazy and didnt code it yet, but I still have time :)

all tables will be redesigned so that they`ll fit both the 800x600 and 1024x768 resolutions.

game section will be a bit more highlighted with the upload of more games. still help wanted here.

new online chat client

reorganizing lots of secondary stuffs, polls, guestbook, etc.

article section redesign too, with possibly an article upload script.

pipsqueak/team profiles better organized.

more FAQs for running stunts. Like sound setup, cheat car installing, and stuffs. So things that those will like, who are not pipsqueaks, but like stunts, and visit the page because o that reason.

chatroom bots reinstalled :)

cool calendar with email reminders before quiet days and deadlines.

but still no useless flash design shit I hope. functionality over design as always :)


and lots of more...
hope I`ll be able to code this all.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 02, 2003, 11:27:30 AM
what? nobody has an idea?

why not an ice cream on loading the homepage.

more seriously, if u could write a rplinfo for reading the rpl files and making people update the scoreboard by themselves that would be good. I dont know what u think about that. if its reliable.

rankings its okay but one cool thing would be to also add columns with the average speed and distance driven like in unskilled in the end of the month. that is the analysis page work also :S

one of the originality of your competition is the analysis, try to enhance it further :)
Title: Site v5
Post by: Krys TOFF on May 04, 2003, 02:03:49 AM
Wow, quite a huge work to do !
Zak is the best at that.

I liked the e-mail notification system, it should be good to have it again.

I don't have any other idea that you didn't already said for now.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 04, 2003, 07:07:10 PM
yes he is good but your competition is the best idea of us all
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: alanrotoi on May 05, 2003, 01:14:22 AM
But...... you said some days before that the best is IRC... who posted it you or some of your ghosts? and who I am? am I a human? a ghost? a dog? oooh I don't know.....well let me add that this afternoon I walked some block in my neilborhood... you can't imagine the beatiful girls I saw. Incredible, girls girls girls all the time!! That was a good ride :D
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 06, 2003, 01:00:32 AM
its different things, krys idea is perfect, but irc is the perfect competition. being on the podium there is touching gods hand
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 06, 2003, 09:59:47 AM
IRC is a competition for those who need heaps of special rules to win, so that other people's skills can be neutralized.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 06, 2003, 10:42:47 AM
i will allow positively no theories like these. Let's  refuse to say IRC rules should hamper some pipsqueaks to play at their top level. wether competition where rules are strong reveal pipsqueaks that have strong driving skills. or competition which rules are weak forgive weak driving. period.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: Mingva on May 06, 2003, 02:31:50 PM
Yes, IRC is for pipsqueaks with strong driving skills. In zak's comp. the most  important is the number of SC you can find. Just watch to my results: in zak's I'm allways in top10, and in IRC I'm on the last places only :(
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 06, 2003, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: "Mingva"Yes, IRC is for pipsqueaks with strong driving skills. In zak's comp. the most  important is the number of SC you can find. Just watch to my results: in zak's I'm allways in top10, and in IRC I'm on the last places only :(

What's that supposed to mean? That you're good at finding shortcuts but not at corners?
Fact is that the only way to do well in IRC is to spend ages making every little corner perfect, instead of doing interesting things like STUNTS! The only point of the ISA competition originally was to make an alternative for those who didn't like shortcuts. However, there are two good ways to avoid that without IRC/ISA rules.

1. Don't make a two way track - you can always cut from one way to the other.  (or simple disallow that way of cutting, because that is only exploitation of a bug in the game, not display of skill)
2. If you don't like to have power gear tracks like ACT04 and you want one that you can win with your own skills, just make sure there are no power gear tricks. This is the track designer's job, and it's not that hard to
do.

As Mark Nailwood wrote to me in the e-mail: "I don't think it's a good idea with restrictions - the good thing about the old competition was that it also challenged your creativity in finding the best way to drive the tracks"
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 06, 2003, 06:21:10 PM
and you proved yourself not to be so creative in sc finding. I got my favorite on this game his initials are AR
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 06, 2003, 09:57:10 PM
Yes, obviously I'm not the best at that, but at least when you win at Zakstunts (or Unskilled or ZakB), you know you win because you're good at Stunts.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: alanrotoi on May 07, 2003, 05:46:06 AM
If this is a "personal fight" between you both it's ok, but you can't say that to win in ISA don't makes you "feel skilled" because we know this is the strongest competition. This kind of restrisctions (on wheel on over the road) makes you faster on the track and not an off-road pipsqueak.

In my opinion (I'm talking about me! ;)) every win gives you prestige. Zak's and IRC are the most important contests right now. Zak's gives you a lot of prestige, because you are using a slow car, because you found all the shortcuts (always there are) and because there is the biggest competition. And IRC gives you a lot of prestige, because you were the fastest in the most used car, because you were the fastest only on track and because it is big too.

If you use a lot of time with RH to turn a corner in IRC you are using the same time to do a shortcut in zak's. It's just about RH.

I'm not in alain's side or in yours, I'm trying to defend the wins I have in this competition (and yours), they are very honourable.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 07, 2003, 04:43:14 PM
I definitely don't agree that IRC is the strongest competition. The winning times are extremely strong, which means that Alan Rotoi is extremely strong. Apart from that, Zakstunts has more pipsqueaks and very hard competition.
To put it very simply: cutting people off from using a whole part of the game and the track - the grass and the air - you are making the game simpler and easier. This does not mean it is easier to win of course, because the more simple it is, the more perfect it is possible to make your replay with an equal time-investment. I just, personally, don't think it's very funny or interesting to use all your time perfecting every little part of the track. Zakstunts and other competitions are both about shortcuts, (I have yet to see a shortcut in a one-way track with non-powergear car)tricks and corners. IRC is only about corners.
Title: IRC rules
Post by: Krys TOFF on May 07, 2003, 08:05:35 PM
And what about IMSA Cup ? It follows IRC rules too...

And i don't think air is not used in IRC rules : jumps are not forbidden. :wink:
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 07, 2003, 10:00:01 PM
I knew I would get that question, and you're right, but only the air over the road is usable. I just added to underline that it is not only driving over grass which is prohibited, it is also jumping over grass and obstacles - something which is very common in real (;)) competitions
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 07, 2003, 10:03:28 PM
Well, about IMSA cup: IRC rules are still lame, but it doesn't change that much in IMSA cup because the IMSAs have no power gear. Also, I like the cup idea.

And remember: It's not that I don't like IRC competition, I just like the free competitions better...
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 07, 2003, 11:02:23 PM
While i just make u crawl in the swamp i wanted to, i will explain u just why u are not telling truth when speaking about the real difficulty of certain competitions.

1. IRC is more difficult than any other, because it demands total control over a fast and powerful car and some parts of the tracks that are the basics of a master driving, corners. Corners are not SO simple. U should find advantage on newbies making them think its easy to turn a corner. I MUST TELL NEWBIES STUNTS SUCCESS, ITS ABOUT THE CORNERS.

2. Zakstunts is happy and joyful race, and it DOES NOT complicate things to add a third dimension for bursts of power. When u got found a shortcut, do it, if u do it faster, u win. point line. I am sorry, but my own experience proved it was easier to drive with shortcuts that means freedom that means ease than on ISA.

3. personal statement: first participation to adelaide: last time, twenty seconds and more after the winner cap, with no idea where i drove slow... last participation to IRC: three hours MAXIMUM of driving, fourth place. Well i learned how to drive fast corners in ISA competition. Thanks stunts.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 08, 2003, 06:26:49 PM
So you're going for another ridiculous post - I can't say I'm surprised.

Quote from: "al il professore"

1. IRC is more difficult than any other, because it demands total control over a fast and powerful car and some parts of the tracks that are the basics of a master driving, corners. Corners are not SO simple. U should find advantage on newbies making them think its easy to turn a corner. I MUST TELL NEWBIES STUNTS SUCCESS, ITS ABOUT THE CORNERS.

2. Zakstunts is happy and joyful race, and it DOES NOT complicate things to add a third dimension for bursts of power. When u got found a shortcut, do it, if u do it faster, u win. point line. I am sorry, but my own experience proved it was easier to drive with shortcuts that means freedom that means ease than on ISA.

3. personal statement: first participation to adelaide: last time, twenty seconds and more after the winner cap, with no idea where i drove slow... last participation to IRC: three hours MAXIMUM of driving, fourth place. Well i learned how to drive fast corners in ISA competition. Thanks stunts.

IRC is more difficult because it demands more replay handling. That is what you call "control over the car". IRC rules are, however much you keep talking about something else, a cut off the game Stunts. Some parts are removed from the game, and only one is left: Corners. I have never said corners are easy (but of course you say I have), actually corners are very hard. But there are corners in Zakstunts too. Everything in IRC is also in Zakstunts, while there are several aspects in Zakstunts that are not present in IRC competition. It's as simple as that...
I don't understand the third point you make. So you've become a lot better at Stunts, what's that got to do with anything?

Please remember that I am not criticizing the IRC competition in general, which is strong and well-organized. I just find the rules lame.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 08, 2003, 09:25:20 PM
well u didnt understand the third point or u didnt want to simply hear it :)

my good friend, u will have to fight me long time on the track and off the track if u do think that irc rules cut from the original stunts. four wheels, jumps, stunts, thats it.

do you feel frustrated by the all time lazy ones that only rules at zackstunts and beat u there? or what?

there is no problem with irc rules, its original and very challenging to play on the edge of stunts, with more precise driving than anywhere else
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 08, 2003, 09:47:36 PM
You haven't answered anything of what I said...?

Is it really so hard to understand that in Zakstunts, you could drive with IRC rules if you wanted, but you could also drive in many other ways, so therefore there are many other possibilities. When there are many other possibilities, it means you have to be more creative, and the best way will statistically be harder to drive. (not meaning harder to drive without crashing, but harder to max out). This is why you have to work so hard on IRC - because it's all about splitseconds, or at least it would be if there was anyone to challenge Alan Rotoi. You need to max out completely to win. On Zakstunts, it is quite impossible to max out completely, and that's what makes it so interesting.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 08, 2003, 11:42:15 PM
I dont think really that zackstunts shortcut kalpenlike competition is allowing more talent to express because there should be more possibilities on these tracks.

1. there is not several possibilities, several ways to drive a lap. Good drivers say they "at first smell" see one and direct way to victory. this way is maxed out by two or three drivers. Three in a month where three lost pilots had nothing else to do. Btw let me pray here for more pipsqueaks to come and more competitions to open. Because the old same one winner its boring. comma. Well its impossible to design a track with four good and equal ways... just design a mirrored track, and thats finished. A track like a symetrical draw, u see what i mean? In zackstunts, u find the shortcut way, u drive it, u max out to the bone and u miss the missing part. There is always a missing part that make u ridiculous, even for those who are called the best. The second comma will launch the idea of a more serious permanent competition track, a new type of competition that could be called: "the hopeless diamond". In this competition, u will be given one year to drive the track. In this competition, there will be a prize in money for the winner, to make people do the maximum of the track and the maximum of the car. I still believe in one year, only one pipsqueak will approach the perfect rpl. and miss the impossible last second... but not because he didnt see the way he could drive it, or because this way wouldnt fit with the following of the track. Just because there is only one probable way in the track, and this way is impossible to max out thanx to the growing chaos effect we encounter playing stunts.

2. I love marshmallows on the fire

3. why they cut daniel pearl in ten pieces? because there wasnt room for more pieces.

4. IRC competition is killing lazy competitions. Its upper level, its cream of the cream. to quote akoss the poet, its the cum. to be a complete stunts driver u need IRC, IRC is a need for speed in corner, a need for rational racing and a need. Its creation filled a big gap. In IRC it is impossible to max out completely a rpl. there is always the missing part of the perfect rpl. There is no statistical possibility that a pipsqueak and a pipsqueak will give on a month a perfect lap on the same time. thats impossible!


hence the one who will drive in fsc without shortcut will be given five points more than the one who drove with shortcut.
Title: requests
Post by: JTK on May 09, 2003, 01:28:47 PM
Hi Zak,

I also allways liked the mail notification including the new contest tracks. If not I'd like to find a fast track download link on the first page.

CU and keep up the good work, JTK
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: alanrotoi on May 09, 2003, 04:14:13 PM
Yes, fast and easy to understand for newbies site it's needed. Buttons or links for track and every scoreboard. The site should be easy for incomming people. I guess the design is only for pipsqueaks and isn't very friendly....
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 09, 2003, 04:53:08 PM
Okay, I'll stop this discussion. Read my posts and you'll find answers to your arguments. If you tell me you don't, fine, let's continue, you just gimme a sign boy.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 09, 2003, 07:19:05 PM
i do not only find no answer to my arguments in your posts, but also dont understand the logic behind the arguments used by you, my oh the most untrustful adversary.

Well behind your arguments, there is no logic, as i started to explain to everybody. why do you shake like a plummer the idea of a more important work load to weight on every virtual square inch of those sometime magnificent zack stunts track? no other complication will come from a closed circuit if u add the possibilities of finding shortcuts on it. When anybody will drive a track with shortcuts, he will be forgiven huge errors of driving, for example, cutting the grass is cutting the grass, its simple to do for anyone. But in IRC races, we all have got one same way to drive, with a theoric "same" maximum work load to weight on every square inch. I do push this equation on this post that is:

TEN TIMES the average Zackstunts track work load to weight on every square inch multiplied by bonzai joe IQ and mixed with a complete load of brown danish sausage = One time the average IRC track work load to weight on every square inch multiplied by Alain superior IQ and mixed with the great powers of that stunts team that is called Orion.

see you on top of both of these tracks, driver.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 10, 2003, 12:33:19 AM
I couldn't understand much of your post, but I'll try.
Here's a really simple and logical (if you want to say that my arguments are not logical, please do explain why not) argument:
In IRC, there is one way to drive a left/right corkscrew. There is one way to drive an up/down corkscrew. There is one bridge corner trick that you are allowed to make, one way to drive a loop.
In Zakstunts competition, however, there are at least 6 ways to drive a left/right corkscrew, 4 ways to drive an up/down corkscrew, 3 bridge corner tricks, 6 ways to drive a loop etc.   If you know just a little mathematics, you will understand that this means the fastest way will eventually be more complicated and harder to drive.
Another thing: when was the last time you saw a shortcut a non-two-way track? I don't remember any... the only shortcut there is in Stunts is skipping from one way to the other. The rest is tricks or power gear magic.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 10, 2003, 10:21:11 AM
another non logical argument was just developed by you on the latest post, my ugly and dirty stunts trick lover friend...

Well. There is positively several ways to drive a cork in IRC. U can drive it fast, or slowly, i.e. u can drive it with a little jump entering it and going out of it, u can take it by the edge or by the middle, u can skip half a second if u have the right gear or the bad one :)

saying there is only one way to drive an obstacle, a stunts element in IRC is not logical.

In the same way, there are infinite attentions to pay when u drive each and every corners, each and every loop (with/without power gear, sincerely, without cutting a loop, i can still imagine easily six ways of putting my love into it, babe. iiiirh sorry driving it.

While i am finishing, i forgot what was the second part of the insane post where you re still fighting the whirlwind made of your own ... ah yes i read it again and say:

WHY ON STUNTS do you think a shortcut is a way of cutting the grass that allows you to skip a way for another. Thats bullshit. For example U can hit the bullseye with a shortcut like that in i dont remember which track of zackcompetition where we used to drive one of the IMSA car for a hell run and with a last hero shortcut just before the finish line: there was a succession of two sharp right corners after a double jump with a boulevard in the middle, then a cork then a corkscrew to climb. well, everybody skipped the last obstacles and drove through the grass without in your ming taking any shortcut???

Another simple illustration of a non joeish shortcut was the last and munificent loop jump in debrecen. Call it a trick, its still a shortcut credited for the few drivers that succeeded it and had the idea of it, since the car perfectly takes a athmospheric leap over the grass, skipping  the road in a surprisingly insultive way for opponents.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: BonzaiJoe on May 10, 2003, 01:11:05 PM
About your first point, sure, there are many ways to drive those obstacles in IRC if you look at it like that, but that was not the point. The point is that however many ways there are, there are about 6 times as many ways on Zakstunts, because all the things you described apply for all the ways to drive a loop without going the whole way.
About ZCT22, sure, call those shortcuts if you want! Mindscape made a little thing called Penalty Time, which is what you get if you cut a part of a track. The only way to cheat past that is by skipping from one road to another. Small shortcuts that don't get you penalty time are considered to be a part of this game called STUNTS. And do you know how much time I spent doing those last 2 shortcuts right? Any fool can cut over grass, but you have to keep as high a speed as possible, and get the angle just right in order to do the sharp corner well. These things demand time and skill more than anything. I lost that month because I didn't do the last part past the corkscrew well enough!
About the Debrecen trick - why do you think it's such a crime to drive over grass, when you've just said that the trick is a bonus for those who can do it. It's not an easy trick. It demands patience, precision and luck - unlike going around in the loop, turning two corners and pushing the "up" button until you reach the finish line. Would you have preferred that? How cool would Debrecen have been with IRC rules?
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 11, 2003, 12:59:11 AM
i wasnt talking about the advantage or not to take a shortcut, but about the real definition of a shortcut. This was an example of brilliant shortcut. This was what u called a trick in opposition to a way to way shortcut... that definition was very weak, and u accorded with it.

now about the different ways of making love to an obstacle: is really true your opinion when u clearly say the fastest way is the harder to drive? I mean, every one can drive a loop in conventional way, and it will be slow compared to a trick. But the trick by itself is easy to understand, and depends only on luck to be applied. Its not the impossible thing you meant it to be. an average driver can do a loop trick. an average driver can do a cork screw breakthru trick.

The difference i will point will be this one: a qualified driver will succeed the trick easier hence faster hence max it out, while an average driver will not be able to express all the juice from the luck the stunts gods gave him to achieve it.

IRC race is a pure hard thing. Qualified drivers know what i mean. its a race for control, a race for precision. its much more intense than a barrage fire of replay handling in the four dimensions in zackstunts or unskilledstunts. Plus, the comparison would fit with similar speeds. but with slow cars, a corner is easier to take than with a fast one. U can drive a 180? corner with RH all the time u want if u are not skilled, its worthless. if u drive it in IRC, u must be precise and commit yourself in curve loving manoeuver, from the beginning to the end, in the same movement. At the speed an indy car take this corner, RH does not help an average driver.

Technique will make difference between drivers ease in IRC corners. This technique developed in IRC will certainly give an advantage to the ZS driver, and RH will help him in perfecting the slow grass cutting trajectories.
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: alanrotoi on May 24, 2003, 04:18:31 AM
I'm back with the topic:

1. I said that the site design is only for current pipsqueaks and hard for newbies (also it was hard to understand for me one year ago).  The scoreboards access should be more important than the other menu commands.

2. There would be a big banner saying "hey join here it's easy, it's like this and like that blabla".

3. The email address should be at the 1st view!

4. The menu character size is too small

5. Maybe a pic with the stunts logo? or any view of the game in the main page. Then somebody who have a little idea about stunts, will recognize the game immediately with the "Stunts" logo... This is very important.

This is the main change I would like to see in the page. After that should get different colors.

The page would be easy to browse, for stupids. We (pipsqueaks) can browse the page without looking at the screen but a newbie can't do that.

Of course this is only what I think it lacks, because we have a lot of positive things to say about the site, for example the php database....
Title: ZakStunts v5.0
Post by: al il professore on May 24, 2003, 04:27:38 PM
while we spoke about 5, 4 doesnt work :)