Stunts Forum

ZakStunts - the Competition => Competition and Website => Topic started by: zaqrack on February 23, 2015, 03:08:07 PM

Title: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: zaqrack on February 23, 2015, 03:08:07 PM
Quoting myself from Marco's thread with a bit of added detail  :)

now that we have replay publicity at ZakStunts, it would be completely OK with me, to add two checkboxes at the replay upload form so pipsqueaks can indicate whether they have raced with RH and/or no OWOOT. If a checkbox was set, a small icon appears on the scoreboard next to the entry indicating the OWOOT / noRH time. We would also code a rule for OWOOT and noRH replays to be publicized always, any time during a race.

So at least you can compare yourself against others, and we have the power of publicity to verify whether OWOOT rules were properly used. Racing in NoRH or OWOOT does not grant any additonal points or benefits to pipsqueaks of the main championship, but may be displayed on a separate scoreboard as well (similar to Newbie leage)
Sure, no way to prevent RH, so noRH replays would be still on a voluntary basis. But if we can live with the occasional cheaters and frequent accusations without a reason, this is an easy to add feature that may bring more fun to all of us.
What do you all think?

At least I would be interested to race so. Anyone else?

@dreadnaut: I guess we would only need two checkboxes,two nice small icons, two boolean columns in the results database table and a few new SQL queries for the new scoreboards. Does not seem much work to me.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: CTG on February 23, 2015, 03:09:37 PM
Maybe I'm wrong, but we had this stuff already in 2007 (or 2006).
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister on February 23, 2015, 06:30:46 PM
OWOOT replays should be sent then to Alain. At IRC competitions, Mingva always asked him to decide doubtful situations/replays. I was usually very angry at them. But since - as far as I know - they laid down the exact definition of OWOOT driving, I think they are the men who should inspect the replays. Pershing II allowed more tricks than them, but they faded away. Alain said whether we could do something or not. And without any debates, we had to obey him. No pipe jump, no corkscrew jump. F3 camera, 3 clicks plus 10 clicks, and that's the view what counts. Do you remember?

I considered myself a good OWOOT driver, but I don't really like to drive that way. I participated in the good old ISA/IRC competitions, because it was probably the hardest/strongest competition ever (Alan Rotoi gave up 100% serious ZakStunts driving after ZCT 23, he said, but he remained active at IRC), it was a big feat to be on the podium there... but each lap was a pure suffering.

Well, no-RH driving: I'll send my laps honestly, but I'm sure that the proper way to hold such competitions is to hold a live meeting. But unfortunately, this thread already has more replies than my 2014 WSM idea last year.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Marco on February 23, 2015, 07:30:57 PM
Oh my friends, I'm very honored of so much consideration :)

Is it no possible to have a separated championship in the same page like the NEWBY instead of combine the main one with this one ...

Then, I have a solution that will define the OWOOT NoRH as safer then the replay one, maybe it's not so easy and smart and maybe you will send me away but it could avoid the RH honest problem...

We play as you did sending replay... in the meantime Every player will race recording also the dos box session (ctrl+shift+f5)  (It seemed to me that there are not so much problem with the game during recording (I mean delay, etc.).

ZAK opens a youtube account "ZAK STUNTS NoRH OWOOT Chanpionship" and send the pwd to all pipsqueaks that will participate to the new championship and, at the end of the race, if necessary of if there are some doubts, we will upload directly our races (not the replay but the original) on youtube without wasting your site resources... 

With a normal videoediting program like "windows movie maker" you can also cut no necessary parts, like initial menu, etc.

Maybe I'm saying alot of stupid things
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Marco on February 23, 2015, 08:07:34 PM
You played live races...the best of the Rh are also best of noRh?
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: zaqrack on February 23, 2015, 08:15:33 PM
Not necessarily but of course there is a close correlation. Bonzai Joe is very good in both, I am a lot better in live races than in competitions, while others such as Alain are worse when racing live.
Some of the live races were facilitated online, some during the three World Stunts Meeting events we had during the 2004-2006 period.You can check results in the WSM threads on the forum, such as http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=1395.0

Since only a fraction of us had the possibility to meet and race against eachother, it is of course an eternal cause for pipsqueaks to mock others that they are only achieving good results because of the countless hours they invest in replay handling.
 
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: zaqrack on February 23, 2015, 08:16:38 PM
Oh my friends, I'm very honored of so much consideration :)

Is it no possible to have a separated championship in the same page like the NEWBY instead of combine the main one with this one ...

Then, I have a solution that will define the OWOOT NoRH as safer then the replay one, maybe it's not so easy and smart and maybe you will send me away but it could avoid the RH honest problem...

We play as you did sending replay... in the meantime Every player will race recording also the dos box session (ctrl+shift+f5)  (It seemed to me that there are not so much problem with the game during recording (I mean delay, etc.).

ZAK opens a youtube account "ZAK STUNTS NoRH OWOOT Chanpionship" and send the pwd to all pipsqueaks that will participate to the new championship and, at the end of the race, if necessary of if there are some doubts, we will upload directly our races (not the replay but the original) on youtube without wasting your site resources... 

With a normal videoediting program like "windows movie maker" you can also cut no necessary parts, like initial menu, etc.

Maybe I'm saying alot of stupid things

Sure, we could try this out. All we need is to prepare a tutorial on how to prepare the videos.
 
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: alanrotoi on February 23, 2015, 08:25:42 PM
I like a OWOOTR section! One question. What if somebody doesn't want to show his replay until the end?

I mean, there are tricks on this kind of rules too.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: CTG on February 23, 2015, 08:35:01 PM
Videos can be edited without any sign. E.g. VirtualDub can handle videos with ZMBV codec. The same problem as in SDR noRH.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: zaqrack on February 23, 2015, 08:50:57 PM
I don't think anyone cares about that. It's about having fun.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Marco on February 23, 2015, 10:38:55 PM
Sorry , what are you meaning ? Video editing to connect best parts ?
I'm not a pro but making videos for youtube I use video editing programs so I have tried to do that right now.
It's possible but it seems to me that it's not a perfect 100% work, but a 99.5% :) And easy to discover.

The end and initial parts of the 2 sessions that you want to connect are not perfectly alligned with the movie frame so you lose a little bit to connect them ... Ok , if it's a very good work you cannot notice it with your eyes but synching the original stunts clock with the cracked one of your fake movie you maybe could see that at the end they are a little unsynch, also with only one connection part ... There is also a little sound noise on the connection point but very difficult to find .

http://youtu.be/5TL53_lQvLM

Ok my friends, look at this video, I have added the original stunts clock on the right side of the cracked one ... check it and maybe try to pay attention to the sound and tell me where I have connected the movie ... Let's go
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: CTG on February 23, 2015, 10:40:48 PM
Cutting videos is way too easy. Just set the proper number of fps.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Marco on February 23, 2015, 10:52:40 PM
I worked on the single frame ...
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Marco on February 23, 2015, 10:53:24 PM
Send me a your cut & past perfect video that I check if it's perfect:)
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Shoegazing Leo on February 23, 2015, 10:54:53 PM
A OWOOT track can be a good idea for one or two races by years. This can be used with some retro tracks what had several tricks.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Duplode on February 24, 2015, 09:54:44 PM
At least I would be interested to race so. Anyone else?

I love the idea! I would definitely send occasional NoRH replays and, if the track is suitable, OWOOT ones as well. Here are a few comments about the details:

OWOOT replays should be sent then to Alain. At IRC competitions, Mingva always asked him to decide doubtful situations/replays. I was usually very angry at them. But since - as far as I know - they laid down the exact definition of OWOOT driving, I think they are the men who should inspect the replays. Pershing II allowed more tricks than them, but they faded away. Alain said whether we could do something or not. And without any debates, we had to obey him. No pipe jump, no corkscrew jump. F3 camera, 3 clicks plus 10 clicks, and that's the view what counts. Do you remember?

I once wrote a quite detailed (http://scr.stunts.hu/rules.html#driving-rules) IRC-like rule code for JACStunts and Southern Cross, only to run into trouble because I forgot to specify the camera position exactly... Nowadays I would use Mingva's angle as well.

A OWOOT track can be a good idea for one or two races by years. This can be used with some retro tracks what had several tricks.

I'm strictly neutral about having official OWOOT rounds, though I would certainly not skip them. I wonder how hard would it be, for ISA rules at least, to automate the OWOOT check...
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: alanrotoi on February 25, 2015, 12:04:23 AM
I would like to participate only if there is an option of "time to scoreboard but secret replay until the end of the race" just like a common replay.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Marco on February 25, 2015, 04:38:49 PM
I agree with Duplode. Strict rules...don t know perfectly how they are but strictly is the right word. I will like also less days to play per month. Max a week per race per month, this could reduce, if i m not wrong, the time gap problem "hey you played 24 hour per 30 days"...
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Friker on February 13, 2016, 10:14:47 AM
Well, and what if I wnat to race in both RH and NoRH style? Will I have two entries in a scoreboard?
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Duplode on February 13, 2016, 11:34:02 AM
Well, and what if I wnat to race in both RH and NoRH style? Will I have two entries in a scoreboard?

I suppose there would rather be multiple scoreboards, with your fastest suitable replay showing up in each of them.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: zaqrack on February 13, 2016, 02:08:16 PM
Nice to see this topic revived. My proposition:

- An "OWOOT" flag that pipsqueaks can check when uploading replay
- OWOOT replays appear on a separate scoreboard as well (similar to newbie league). Only one entry per pipsqueak in the main scoreboard
- OWOOT replays forced to be always public
- OWOOT races are entirely 'just for fun', do not impact seasonal replays at all (no bonus points or similar)
- Of course if a pipsqueak only sends OWOOT replays, that counts as the best time for the main race.

I would also say only OWOOT or NORH flags, not both. We are too small of a team to segment so much. The one people want the most should be the one implemented.

Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Friker on February 13, 2016, 05:08:13 PM
Nice to see this topic revived. My proposition:

- An "OWOOT" flag that pipsqueaks can check when uploading replay
- OWOOT replays appear on a separate scoreboard as well (similar to newbie league). Only one entry per pipsqueak in the main scoreboard
- OWOOT replays forced to be always public
- OWOOT races are entirely 'just for fun', do not impact seasonal replays at all (no bonus points or similar)
- Of course if a pipsqueak only sends OWOOT replays, that counts as the best time for the main race.

I would also say only OWOOT or NORH flags, not both. We are too small of a team to segment so much. The one people want the most should be the one implemented.
I like NoRH much more than OWOOT (especially with RH). In case of RH OWOOT I would probably participate only with NoRH replays.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: dreadnaut on February 19, 2016, 01:10:09 AM
- An "OWOOT" flag that pipsqueaks can check when uploading replay
- OWOOT replays appear on a separate scoreboard as well (similar to newbie league). Only one entry per pipsqueak in the main scoreboard
- OWOOT replays forced to be always public
- OWOOT races are entirely 'just for fun', do not impact seasonal replays at all (no bonus points or similar)
- Of course if a pipsqueak only sends OWOOT replays, that counts as the best time for the main race.

Let's experiment! There are now two checkboxes, when you upload a replay, that allow you to mark your replay as NoRH or OWOOT. For the moment both are available.

Two corresponding scoreboards have appeared at the bottom of the track page, which should be limited to the tagged results. But it's an experiment, so Alan's results from 2005 might end up in there.

Zak, I leave to you to decide which checkboxes to have in use. You can also make up others (e.g., "only turning left" :) ) and I think I can store them per-track in the future.


edit: I'm already a bit uncertain about this experiment. I think these results should be handled/stored separately, or it might become a bit of a mess :P
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: Duplode on February 19, 2016, 03:06:54 AM
Seems to be working fine!

edit: I'm already a bit uncertain about this experiment. I think these results should be handled/stored separately, or it might become a bit of a mess :P

You mean that with regards to presentation of results or to where should replays actually belong? If it is the latter, I actually feel it is right that if your fastest replay is a special rule one it should also be on the main scoreboard, as mine is right now.
Title: Re: NoRH and OWOOT on ZakStunts
Post by: zaqrack on February 19, 2016, 09:53:06 AM
- An "OWOOT" flag that pipsqueaks can check when uploading replay
- OWOOT replays appear on a separate scoreboard as well (similar to newbie league). Only one entry per pipsqueak in the main scoreboard
- OWOOT replays forced to be always public
- OWOOT races are entirely 'just for fun', do not impact seasonal replays at all (no bonus points or similar)
- Of course if a pipsqueak only sends OWOOT replays, that counts as the best time for the main race.

Let's experiment! There are now two checkboxes, when you upload a replay, that allow you to mark your replay as NoRH or OWOOT. For the moment both are available.

Two corresponding scoreboards have appeared at the bottom of the track page, which should be limited to the tagged results. But it's an experiment, so Alan's results from 2005 might end up in there.

Zak, I leave to you to decide which checkboxes to have in use. You can also make up others (e.g., "only turning left" :) ) and I think I can store them per-track in the future.


edit: I'm already a bit uncertain about this experiment. I think these results should be handled/stored separately, or it might become a bit of a mess :P

Very nice, thank you! I think the implementation is right. Let's see on the next few races how much this will be used.