Stunts Forum

6 or 8 pipsqueaks wanted!  ;D

Mainly old rules*, weekly rounds, public replays in the Forum and fun. Who is in?

Quote from: USL rules
All kind of replay handling and tricks are allowed, dual-way switching too. Penalty time is your own problem, I'll add it to your time.

Pointsystem: winners of each head-to-head matches will get 2 points, draw means 1 point and the loser gets no point. Bonus points: winner of the certain round +1 point, best loser of the round +1 point. Everybody is going to play with everybody else. There's no team contest.

Leaving out a single race is allowed, but then the actual opponent wins automatically. Time difference will be modified by (average of the round - own result) seconds for the winner, (opponent's result - worst result of the round - 2) seconds for the "renitent". Leaving out more than one race means automatical disqualification, all the results played with that pipsqueak will be deleted.

If a draw appears in overall standings then I'll decide your ranking by the following priority:
    a, result versus eachother
    b, time difference (sum own - sum opponent)
    c, summarized lap times

Some new rules:
- One week/round instead of two, with quite short tracks (45-60 seconds).
- Every participant should build a track.
- Cars: to be discussed, Indy and Zapper's Knight Rider has a fixed place.

Quote from: CTG on February 13, 2021, 12:18:59 PM
Who is in?

Count me in!  ;)

Quote from: CTG on February 13, 2021, 12:18:59 PM
Mainly old rules*, weekly rounds, public replays in the Forum and fun. Who is in?

Jumps and waves arms

Great! :)

Poll added, my votes: Audi (classic), Corvette, Melange, Lotus, McLaren

Round Robin? I'm in if someone of my strength joins too (all of you are definitely stronger than me)...

I'm in!  I'll be just a scoreboard filler but I'll try not to, ha, ha. Some long time ago, I mentioned in this forum "I want to be in ALL tournaments". At that time, there were several and I remember CTG told me that he was then expecting me on his. I didn't keep my word and entered hiatus shortly after, so now I have a chance to redeem myself :P

I want in as well. It's terribly difficult to make enough time for one, let alone 3. (4 if I try GAR as well) but I'll do it anyway. Maybe I will get good at it again

afullo, Cas, Daniel3D, dreadnaut, Duplode, CTG so far.

Start: 22nd February 2021

Quote from: CTG on February 13, 2021, 10:55:45 PM
Start: 22nd February 2021

Haha. Good timing.. I'm moving to a new house the 24th. So I think there is a good chance I will miss the first round...

Quote from: Daniel3D on February 13, 2021, 11:10:44 PM

Quote from: CTG on February 13, 2021, 10:55:45 PM
Start: 22nd February 2021

Haha. Good timing.. I'm moving to a new house the 24th. So I think there is a good chance I will miss the first round...

Or 29th. Nothing is fixed yet.

So all of us will build tracks. I'll be getting one ready  ;D  Oh, but to make sure it has the right length, I need to know which car will be used for it. How will we know which car can be used for our tracks?

As a side note and as mentioned before, R4K has a KITT-based race coming for next month, in case you plan to make them coincide or to make them not coincide.

Quote from: CTG on February 13, 2021, 10:55:45 PM
afullo, Cas, Daniel3D, dreadnaut, Duplode, CTG so far.

Count me in as well! :)

Quote from: Cas on February 14, 2021, 03:55:50 AM
So all of us will build tracks. I'll be getting one ready  ;D  Oh, but to make sure it has the right length, I need to know which car will be used for it. How will we know which car can be used for our tracks?

As a side note and as mentioned before, R4K has a KITT-based race coming for next month, in case you plan to make them coincide or to make them not coincide.

Car poll is running. With the results in the pocket, we can deal with the track building preferences.

To avoid coincidence, KITT race can be one of the last rounds.

Great :)
I have to say I'm happy that we're again in a multi-tournament epoch in the Stunts community!

Who will be the 8th applicant?

Akoss Poo? Marco? Overdrijf? Rotoi? Somebody else?

My track is ready, suitable for any not-Indy and not-LM002 car.

I'm in! :)

EXCELLENT!!! ;)

No more slots left, Alan Rotoi is in! COOL!

Are all tracks and replays going to be exchanged over the forum?  I could offer the permanent-competition section of R4K to upload tracks and post replays, then the tracks could be put as "inactive" at the end of each race. It's not optimal, but... All replays would be immediately public that way.

I had a plan some time ago, of creating a very, very simplified interface based on R4K so that anybody could quickly set it up on a server and have a working tournament, retouching the images and colours. It'd accept posting and verifying replays and handling one race at a time. It's still pending. If I had it, I'd be offering it. Anyway, the forum is fine too!

After a troublesome week in work and private life, let's get back to USL.

Car poll is closed with 8 votes. We have already Indy and KITT, so 5 slots were left.

Melange XGT-88 6 (15%) - IN

McLaren Honda MP4/4 4 (10%) - IN

And the quintet with 3 votes... if you are okay with that, I made an arbitrary choice.

Lancia Delta Integrale 3 (7.5%) - IN
Ferrari GTO 3 (7.5%) - IN
Nissan Skyline GT-R 3 (7.5%) - IN

Audi Quattro Sport 3 (7.5%) - OUT (manager's vote removed, one rally car is enough)
Superkart 3 (7.5%) - OUT (with a fixed place in the next season  ::))

The pipsqueaks:
afullo
Alan Rotoi
Cas
CTG
Daniel3D
dreadnaut
Duplode
KyLiE

Schedule: (duels of pipsqueaks are the same as in the previous seasons, expect a classic draw via YouTube :))

Round 1 (1-7 March)
Lancia Delta Integrale
1   vs   2
3   vs   4
5   vs   6
7   vs   8
   
Round 2 (8-14 March)
McLaren MP4/4
4   vs   1
6   vs   3
8   vs   5
2   vs   7

Round 3 (15-21 March)
Nissan Skyline GT-R
1   vs   6
3   vs   8
5   vs   2
7   vs   4

Round 4 (22-28 March)
Melange XGT-88
8   vs   1
2   vs   3
4   vs   5
6   vs   7

Round 5 (29 March-4 April)
Ferrari GTO
1   vs   3
5   vs   7
2   vs   4
6   vs   8

Round 6 (5-11 April)
Pontiac Firebird
1   vs   5
3   vs   7
2   vs   6
4   vs   8

Round 7 (12-18 April)
Porsche March Indy
7   vs   1
3   vs   5
8   vs   2
4   vs   6

Track designers: feel free to book your track. Early bird gets the worm! ;)

Quote from: Cas on February 15, 2021, 01:57:26 AM
Are all tracks and replays going to be exchanged over the forum?  I could offer the permanent-competition section of R4K to upload tracks and post replays, then the tracks could be put as "inactive" at the end of each race. It's not optimal, but... All replays would be immediately public that way.

I had a plan some time ago, of creating a very, very simplified interface based on R4K so that anybody could quickly set it up on a server and have a working tournament, retouching the images and colours. It'd accept posting and verifying replays and handling one race at a time. It's still pending. If I had it, I'd be offering it. Anyway, the forum is fine too!

Thank you for the offer. However, I prefer the forum this time. (I'm too lazy to update the old USC/USL website. ;D)

I'm eager to start!  It'll be as much fun as it'll be hard! XD

Quote from: CTG on February 21, 2021, 08:38:58 PM
Schedule: (duels of pipsqueaks are the same as in the previous seasons, expect a classic draw via YouTube :))

Round 1 (1-7 March)
Lancia Delta Integrale
1   vs   2
3   vs   4
5   vs   6
7   vs   8
   
Round 2 (8-14 March)
McLaren MP4/4
4   vs   1
6   vs   3
8   vs   5
2   vs   7

Round 3 (15-21 March)
Nissan Skyline GT-R
1   vs   6
3   vs   8
5   vs   2
7   vs   4

Round 4 (22-28 March)
Melange XGT-88
8   vs   1
2   vs   3
4   vs   5
6   vs   7

Round 5 (29 March-4 April)
Ferrari GTO
1   vs   3
5   vs   7
2   vs   4
6   vs   8

Round 6 (5-11 April)
Pontiac Firebird
1   vs   5
3   vs   7
2   vs   6
4   vs   8

Round 7 (12-18 April)
Porsche March Indy
7   vs   1
3   vs   5
8   vs   2
4   vs   6

The draw: https://youtu.be/6MNBYLAMmUw

1 KyLiE
2 Duplode
3 dreadnaut
4 Daniel3D
5 Cas
6 afullo
7 CTG
8 Alan Rotoi

Quote from: CTG on February 21, 2021, 09:42:34 PM
The draw: https://youtu.be/6MNBYLAMmUw

That's a nice cup  :D

Quote from: Duplode on February 21, 2021, 11:11:12 PM

Quote from: CTG on February 21, 2021, 09:42:34 PM
The draw: https://youtu.be/6MNBYLAMmUw

That's a nice cup  :D

Yeah, the good old Lada "Laika". :D
http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=2225.0

Quote from: CTG on February 21, 2021, 08:38:58 PM
Track designers: feel free to book your track. Early bird gets the worm! ;)

Who wants the Lancia track? :)

I'll take the Skyline track, Round 3!

I'll build Lancia track if you agree :)

Questions:

Where do I send the replay?
What GMT time do you take?

Quote from: alanrotoi on February 22, 2021, 12:20:34 AM
Questions:

Where do I send the replay?
What GMT time do you take?

You can upload your replay to the Forum.
Time zone: same as in ZakStunts. It's 8:02 now.

I can design the track for Round 4 with the Melange XGT-88.

Round 1 - Lancia - Alan Rotoi
Round 2 - McLaren - ?
Round 3 - Skyline - dreadnaut
Round 4 - Melange - KyLiE
Round 5 - GTO - ?
Round 6 - KITT - ?
Round 7 - Indy - Cas

I'll take the Indy!  I'll make a track for it.

One more rule to provide the fluency of the contest:if the track designer does not upload a track before the start of the race, I'll pick one of the unused short CC2014 tracks as a replacement.

Sounds fair. I hope it won't happen. About mine I'm sending today late or tomorrow ;)
I finished the terrain and half track.

Quote from: CTG on February 27, 2021, 09:09:08 AM
One more rule to provide the fluency of the contest:if the track designer does not upload a track before the start of the race, I'll pick one of the unused short CC2014 tracks as a replacement.

Good move. By the way, I'll pick the Round 2 (McLaren) track. Not the easiest car to design to, but I'm curious to see how it will go  :)

Btw could you suggest a decent free WYSiWYG webeditor?

The old USC/USL sites - with FRAMES! ;D - were created in cracked Namo Webeditor 5, which was an oldie even in 2005. Now I tried to re-install it, but it seems the installation file is damaged.

Quote from: CTG on March 01, 2021, 09:19:02 PM
Btw could you suggest a decent free WYSiWYG webeditor?

That's actually a difficult question, they are either expensive or crappy. You could try BlueGriffon (http://bluegriffon.org/#download) I suppose — the free version is more than enough for building a simple website. Still a bit crappy though ;D

How many replays are we able to send per duel?

Quote from: CTG on February 13, 2021, 12:18:59 PM
Some new rules:
- One week/round instead of two, with quite short tracks (45-60 seconds).

Oh! I forgot about this one! Sorry  :-\

Oh!  I didn't know I could not send more than one replay per race!  Well, I'll do my best on the next one then. Anyway, I don't think I would've been able to improve mine much more.

Quote from: Cas on March 02, 2021, 04:16:52 AM
Oh!  I didn't know I could not send more than one replay per race!  Well, I'll do my best on the next one then. Anyway, I don't think I would've been able to improve mine much more.

You can send as much as you want.

Quote from: alanrotoi on March 02, 2021, 01:04:33 AM

Quote from: CTG on February 13, 2021, 12:18:59 PM
Some new rules:
- One week/round instead of two, with quite short tracks (45-60 seconds).

Oh! I forgot about this one! Sorry  :-\

No problem. As a correction, winning times of each round could be normalized to 1:00.00.

Oh, I'll try to improve it then :)

To send just one replay per race would in my opinion make not sense, since the opponent would have a reference time to win for sure...

Quote from: afullo on March 03, 2021, 10:33:56 AM
To send just one replay per race would in my opinion make not sense, since the opponent would have a reference time to win for sure...

That's working on the assumption that anyone can improve any time.
I'm afraid I'm not that skilled.  8)

@afullo: which one would you like to build? Ferrari GTO or KITT track?

Round 1 - Lancia - Alan Rotoi
Round 2 - McLaren - Duplode
Round 3 - Skyline - dreadnaut
Round 4 - Melange - KyLiE
Round 5 - GTO - ?
Round 6 - KITT - ?
Round 7 - Indy - Cas

I can try with the Kitt one, thanks!

Okay, then:

Round 1 - Lancia - Alan Rotoi
Round 2 - McLaren - Duplode
Round 3 - Skyline - dreadnaut
Round 4 - Melange - KyLiE
Round 5 - GTO - CTG
Round 6 - KITT - afullo
Round 7 - Indy - Cas

About the length of the tracks: shall we use a normalized time scale (or percentages) in each duel as  "goal difference", to give more freedom to track designers?

Quote from: CTG on March 06, 2021, 06:50:27 PMAbout the length of the tracks: shall we use a normalized time scale (or percentages) in each duel as  "goal difference", to give more freedom to track designers?

I like that idea. Yes, I think that'd be best

Yup, normalising the differences makes sense.

Quote from: CTG on March 06, 2021, 06:50:27 PM
About the length of the tracks: shall we use a normalized time scale (or percentages) in each duel as  "goal difference", to give more freedom to track designers?

That would be fair I think. But please keep tracks under 2 minutes (like if skid would race, not by CTG standards...) My concentration span is about 2.5 minutes so I should be able to reasonably be able to drive it...

Also, very long tracks probably won't mix too well with one-week deadlines.

USL 2007:
Nobody missed a round.

USL 2008:
Krys Toff missed Round 6 due to private issues, but came back in the last round.

USL 2010:
Chulk missed Round 3 and 7, but he was not disqualified despite of the rules.
Zak missed Round 4.
Akoss Poo missed Round 7 (luckily, it was a Chulk vs Poo duel).

USL 2021:
Alan Rotoi and Daniel3D left out Round 5. Hopefully this list won't get any longer in the last two races.


Although the rules say the pipsqueaks leaving out more than one race will be disqualified and their previous duels will be removed from the overall results, I don't really like this option. It would be highly unfair to punish other pipsqueaks by taking away their previous victories.

In the next season, the rules might be the following (subject of discussion):
- If your opponent does not appear on the track, your time will be compared to the average of the round. If you are faster than that, you won that duel. If not, you lost.
- If somebody leaves out more than one round, his previous results will not be removed. Instead of DQF, I suggest -1 pt penalty from the second missed round.
- If you have foreseeable difficulties in a certain week, do not hesitate to warn us - anything can be postponted. Real life is more important, and I guess everybody will understand if you don't have time for Stunts because of private issues.

Quote from: CTG on April 05, 2021, 11:53:20 AM
Although the rules say the pipsqueaks leaving out more than one race will be disqualified and their previous duels will be removed from the overall results, I don't really like this option. It would be highly unfair to punish other pipsqueaks by taking away their previous victories.

I don't really like it too.

Quote from: CTG on April 05, 2021, 11:53:20 AMIn the next season, the rules might be the following (subject of discussion):
- If your opponent does not appear on the track, your time will be compared to the average of the round. If you are faster than that, you won that duel. If not, you lost.

It has some limitations, though. If your match is against an opponent which is generally weaker than you, and you are in the overall strength lower half, you would probably lose, while you would have likely won if your opponent would have shown.

- If somebody leaves out more than one round, his previous results will not be removed. Instead of DQF, I suggest -1 pt penalty from the second missed round.

I agree with this.

- If you have foreseeable difficulties in a certain week, do not hesitate to warn us - anything can be postponted. Real life is more important, and I guess everybody will understand if you don't have time for Stunts because of private issues.

Of course, I agree here too.

I like the new rules proposed. On my first read, I thought they were perfect, but after reading Afullo's comment, I have to agree with his point as well. However, I don't see a better way to do it under those circumstances than what CTG suggested. Any way of trying to guess what the result would've been had the pipsqueak not missed the duel will invariably be based on spurious extrapolations.

Only other option I can think of, but too complicated and probably not a good idea is this:
- First, the duel result is left pending till the end of the tournament
- Once it's finished, for each race, the average lap time is calculated from the pipsqueaks that did participate. The pipsqueaks that did not, get their laps estimated by averaging their own raced laps on other tracks relative to the average for all tracks. These laps are used to determining the winning or losing of his/her opponents, although not for their own winning/losing, of course.
However fair, this sounds really cumbersome to do, in my opinion, but I think ideas should always be given

Quote from: Cas on April 05, 2021, 10:48:44 PM
- Once it's finished, for each race, the average lap time is calculated from the pipsqueaks that did participate. The pipsqueaks that did not, get their laps estimated by averaging their own raced laps on other tracks relative to the average for all tracks. These laps are used to determining the winning or losing of his/her opponents, although not for their own winning/losing, of course.
However fair, this sounds really cumbersome to do, in my opinion, but I think ideas should always be given

In my opinion is fairer: if the general average is 1:00 and the specific average is 1:15, the rac3r would have more likely finished his best lap, in the track in which he did not participate, with a time which is near the 125% of the mean, than near the mean itself. Computations are not so complicated to perform...

I already have a track for round 7 :-)  It's called Knots. When I started making it, it felt too easy and probably a little short, so I made sure to adapt it. Now it's more interesting. I think fast pipsqueaks can do it in some 45 seconds. With some effort, I probably can get near a minute. Do you guys think I should make it yet a little longer?

I would like some quick racing with a familiar car after this one.  8)

Quote from: Daniel3D on April 07, 2021, 10:07:11 AM
I would like some quick racing with a familiar car after this one.  8)

#metoo

You'll have it! :)