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ZakStunts - the Competition => Competition and Website => Topic started by: Ryoma on September 26, 2021, 04:29:39 PM

Title: GAR championship
Post by: Ryoma on September 26, 2021, 04:29:39 PM
In fact, it does not interested me but KaOS ask for a GAR championship.

I made this topic only to keep in mind.
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: alanrotoi on September 26, 2021, 05:20:53 PM
I think GAR championship shouldn't be official. It's because the "G" of GAR (Gentlemen). Not everybody will be fair with all the rules and there is no way to know if these rules were used properly.

A GAR championship IMO might stay in an amateur spirit only.
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: Ryoma on September 26, 2021, 05:46:26 PM
I'm not sure because I remembered how KyLie bothered me about the F3 view on one race...

It's NOT official...and I made somes mistakes I think but here the scoreboard.
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: Duplode on September 26, 2021, 07:17:31 PM
KaoS' suggestion also got me thinking about that. Though I opposed having a GAR season scoreboard back in 2016 (http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=3327.0), at this point I feel like it is a well-established enough feature that I wouldn't mind having one. The main practical complication to sort out would be the one Alan mentions: with a season scoreboard, I guess we'd be expected to consistently check everyone's replays for violations, as opposed to just when issues are raised, which is what has been happening lately.

(On a tangential note, given the recent discussions we'll probably also want to think whether we will to stick to Marco's GAR rules and/or my attempt to codify them (http://zak.stunts.hu/articles/gar-rules-at-zakstunts), or to relax some aspects of them.)

It's NOT official...and I made somes mistakes I think but here the scoreboard.

Interesting, thanks! It's been nicely balanced.
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: dreadnaut on September 26, 2021, 09:19:00 PM
with a season scoreboard, I guess we'd be expected to consistently check everyone's replays for violations, as opposed to just when issues are raised, which is what has been happening lately

For me, the problem is that we can't ensure that a replay was not handled. The moment you have a scoreboard, there is a visible incentive to win over time (rather than in a single race) and cheating becomes more tempting. I'd rather not push enable that temptation.

I'm also wondering if we want to switch GAR out for a year, and have a side scoreboard with some variant of OWOOT instead. Easier to participate, and verifyable.

Thanks to Ryoma though, for collecting the numbers! I usually do that at the end of the year, and that's probably not often enough :-X

Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: Ryoma on September 26, 2021, 09:28:09 PM
Be sure that someone will check all the replay...not me, I try the GAR sometimes but it's very hard without RH. For the current race, I didn't succeed one lap without crashing...
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: dreadnaut on September 26, 2021, 09:38:53 PM
I try the GAR sometimes but it's very hard without RH. For the current race, I didn't succeed one lap without crashing...

Yep, I sometimes use a slower but more comfortable car, so I'm more likely to reach the end without leaving the road ::)
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: Daniel3D on September 26, 2021, 09:47:42 PM
Be sure that someone will check all the replay...not me, I try the GAR sometimes but it's very hard without RH. For the current race, I didn't succeed one lap without crashing...
I have the same handicap when it comes to GAR. I don't have the time to grind a track and do proper RH, but I'd do crash restore (CR)  8) so not usable for GAR.
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: KyLiE on September 27, 2021, 04:40:12 AM
My understanding is that the GAR competition is not official, however that doesn't mean that there aren't rules that can be verified.  When I see a newbie participating or an impossible time, I review the replay to make sure it's valid.  If you could just drive however you liked and the only requirement was to reach the finish line, then it would be no different to the main competition.

I'm also wondering if we want to switch GAR out for a year, and have a side scoreboard with some variant of OWOOT instead.

I'm happy for you to do this, however those who have issues with the current GAR competition also don't seem to be interested in Race For Kicks, which is mainly OWOOT, so it may not be worthwhile.
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: alanrotoi on September 27, 2021, 05:20:48 AM

For me, the problem is that we can't ensure that a replay was not handled. The moment you have a scoreboard, there is a visible incentive to win over time (rather than in a single race) and cheating becomes more tempting. I'd rather not push enable that temptation.


100% agree.


I'm also wondering if we want to switch GAR out for a year, and have a side scoreboard with some variant of OWOOT instead. Easier to participate, and verifyable.
It seems quiet interesting idea and a very good solution!
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: Cas on September 27, 2021, 11:18:29 PM
I could write a book about my opinions on GAR... and it would be a pretty boring and long essay on philosophy  ;D

We have an "ecosystem" of different tournaments and I think that is good. If we start changing them to make them more appealing, then all tournaments will look the same in the end and we'll lose the diversity we have now. GAR is very strict because it is meant to be very strict. If somebody doesn't like it strict, then they don't like GAR. There are things that I personally dislike about GAR and others will dislike other things, but I wouldn't want GAR to change. The rose has thorns; that's the way it is. Now, if most people say they don't feel like racing GAR any more, then maybe yes, it'd be better to shut it down (whether temporarily or not), but that's another thing. I, personally, am willing to continue to post GAR replays from time to time if it is there, but if you guys decide to take it down for a year, I'm OK with that too.

About the possibility of something lighter, well, we have Race For Kicks, so we know what participation is like for regular strict OWOOT. If something else were to come up, I think it should be even less strict. R4K does feature free OWOOT races from time to time. I could offer to make some tests and see how people feel about different rule sets, like in parallel races. Also, there was a time when there were many tournaments running together. If somebody feels like having another tournament for another rule set, that would be even more interesting.
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: alanrotoi on September 28, 2021, 03:06:10 AM
Another problem with Gar-cha (GAR championship, isn't it CAS? :D)  is rule number 5, the avoiding of speedups. I can't concieve stunts without them and as the rules says, impossible to avoid... Well, there is a way to avoid them: using BB 1.0 version. Most of the aereal speedups doesn't exist there. But there might be a compatibility issue with custom cars I think. It is a partial solution but it doesn't see too practical in general.
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: Ryoma on October 17, 2021, 08:57:14 AM
Here the table of GAR championship after the last race
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: Cas on October 19, 2021, 08:56:59 PM
About GAR, really, there has been a lot of debate and, honestly, I don't know what to think. I could say GAR was originally an audacious experiment because it involved very thought-of details that we haven't tried before and we have certainly learnt a lot from having experienced it all this time. I definitely don't hate GAR, although I do see its shortcomings.
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: Ryoma on November 18, 2021, 04:43:21 PM
ZCT244
Title: Re: GAR championship
Post by: Ryoma on December 12, 2021, 11:42:22 AM
Final