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Messages - Overdrijf

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Stunts Related Programs / Re: Car cards!
« on: July 10, 2019, 06:00:43 PM »

Now that is the sort of feedback I can use.

I think you're right, it looks much clearer in print too, not to mention kind of cool.

For the trick cards I can use teal/light blue, blue and purple rather than running up to black, that might work.

Font wise I'm not sure what I want yet. Maybe this one has too small an x-height (height of lower case letters compared to upper case ones) after all. But i can solve that after clearing my head with two weeks of vacation.

So the last real thing I have to add for now is what I thought of yesterday after I made that post: I can do this borderless.

See you all in two weeks!

(I'll compulsively check the forum on my phone, but I won't be making cards.)

Stunts Related Programs / Re: Car cards!
« on: July 09, 2019, 03:45:26 PM »
Stunts font, yes, probably would make it more work and take up more space, but could be used for the car name or something.
For the car name I could actually copy it straight from the car selection screen. It'd have to be blown up quite a bit, but that would add to the pixelated look...

In my opinion, the main font should preferably be white or at least have a white border (like in the movies subtitles), because most of the colours during Stunts game play are dark.
This is technically true, but it looks silly when I try it. There's just not enough pixels for a white border, and fully white text, while it stands out very well, looks off somehow.

Also, I would suggest using all caps so that a more condensed font could be used and still be legible at that size and allow for more text, perhaps?  Just thoughts.
I have been trying several fonts. In fact, tomorrow I'm going to see about abusing the boss' printer for a bit and print out about 18 different combinations of fonts and backgrounds at real card size. I'm hoping it will give me some extra clarity. I haven't really tried allcaps yet, but I have tried the very condensed font Impact. It was not a success. Getting too narrow is just as bad as getting too low, at this point.

Also, if these are going to be Super Triunfo like cards, there should be primarily features that can be compared as "more" or "less", that is, magnitudes. Colours for categories also could allow for other games that can be played with the cards, but for that, same number of cars with the same card colour would be important. Like always, all of these are just ideas I'm dropping for you to make what you think best of them freely :)  This is a very nice project!
At the current point there's flat road top speed, real top speed, 0-60, 0-100, length, handling and if you squint a bit difficulty or number of gear. So that's 6 or if you're being really generous 8. Then again, 0-60 and 0-100 will usually point to the same winner, and handling is kind of a strange stat, especially as the raw number does not include extra grip on terrain, so if you're strict there's only kind of 4 stats there.

Speaking of backgrounds, I played around with Duplode's idea of a dashboardfeature in monochrome a bit, it looks pretty cool:

It certainly looks more like a car card/TCG card. It also adds a semi-recognizable feature that you actually see while using the car to the card, so that's super nice. It's also very flexible. One one car you can use the full height of the dash, on another you zoom in on the speedometer, you just get bigger pixels. (Although the colorization process will require a bit of a manual touch, which takes time.) There are also some things about it I still have to think about. The tricks don't have dashboard features, so we'll have to come up with some other image. And I was planning to do the trick cards in blue, purple and black, darker colors which will bring down the legibility. I could do them with very light blue/purple/grey, which is sort of okay (though grey will never stand out from black letters as well as yellow does) but whether that looks good on a card with a dark border, not sure yet. I also feel like this attracts a bit too much attention to how large and square the picture is, but that might actually look a lot better if the image is not mostly sky with a really tiny car.

(The font combination on this card is also one of the frontrunners for the print test tomorrow. It's the only combination I found that will let me use a line less with the same amount of text. The letters are kind of small, but they seem pretty legible.) Together with removing more empty lines I'm hoping this will look like a very readable card in tomorrow's test. It looks pretty readable on a screen...)

About tricks, I think that, beside the cards, there should be more wiki articles on tricks and how to perform them. There, more text and images (including animations) can easily be added and it would definitely help many pipsqueaks... including myself!  I've already been creating wiki articles and I'm already comfortable with it. What I'm not good at, though, is actually performing tricks, ha, ha, so if you give me hints on that part, I could write the articles there. Count on me.
Sounds like a very worthwhile project. Maybe we can leech some writers off each other. Ones they admit they know a trick well...

EDIT: This one is a failed experiment as far as being super legible goes, but I'm sharing it anyway because it looks pretty boss. Bit of a Sin City vibe... And it's easy to do for any car containing black or grey.

Stunts Related Programs / Re: Car cards!
« on: July 07, 2019, 12:29:50 PM »
Thanks for the feedback. I will be vacationing for about 2 weeks starting Thursday, so the project is going to look a little quiet between that and both race series finishing shortly after, but I'm planning to start looking for expert writers soon after.

Most definitely! I can't conceive a Super Trunfo card without top speed or acceleration  :)
I think you're right, it needs some stats.

This would allow either enlarging the font size or increasing the form factor.

The vertical spacing between the lines in the "Tips" feels a bit too small; shortening the text, as suggested above, might help.
Font size is a little problematic in any case. As you said it did look a little cluttered, so it needs some more distance between the lines, and I really like the amount of information I can cram in the current concepts, so the font size might be trending a bit down if anything. Oops... (Although it really does look like it's getting a bit less clear with the downsizing now, so I might have to just cut a line of text after all.)

(On form factors: your sample card has, approximately, golden ratio proportions, 1 : Phi~=1.618. For the sake of comparison, Magic cards are 63 x 88 mm, 1 : 1.397. If you like the allure of the golden number, it is worth noting that 2-1/Phi ~= 1.382 .)
I went for bridge card size, 88.9 by 57.15mm. That format minus 4mm margins around the edges is this printable surface. Kind of with the idea that maybe one day they could be physical cards maybe. The current concept then has 350dpi because that nicely fit the 640x480 size of the pictures. Admittedly 350 is a weird number, I don't even know if printers could easily do that. Magic is printed on poker size cards, which have a little extra width. That would surely be another option. Much of the extra space is wasted though because the picture, given the same ratio becomes larger while the stat lines keep taking up just as much space.

(I presume the two top speed values are straight line and real, right? In that case, I feel it would look a little tidier to use "154 mph (156 mph)" instead of "154/156 mph", but I don't have a strong rationale for my preference.)
Yes they are. Good suggestion.

Some of what we mean when we say "fast car" or "slow car" is conveyed by top speed and acceleration, so I think it would be better to focus on handling when it comes to translating that to  a property. There might be a "high grip" property that indicates a car has high grip relative to its straight line performance . The opposite property, "low grip", might be applied to the moderately fast cars in which the lack of grip is most acutely felt (GTO, Countach, GT3, etc.). There possibly also is a place for superlatives ("very high grip"). "Nimble" for the cars that have better than usual handling due to being short (Audi, Lancia, Kart, etc.) might make sense as a separate property, though it does overlap with "Short".
This touches on a very fundamental issue, which is: how much do the cards need to explain about general Stunts physics? If you have a short car, do you still need to say it's nimble and has a short jump length? Everybody who knows about the connection will see it as wasted space, but everybody who doesn't know it needs a way to learn it, and where better than in these cards?

In the latest concept I'm letting go of the properties a little bit because I'm trying to fit more of them in stats. But there will probably still be a need for some sort of "special" line. There are less rules about what terms should and should not be named there, but they should be standout properties of the car. Basically, if you're quickly flipping through your cards to find the right car you're not reading the tips, just the stats, so stuff like this should be with the stats:

An important one is "Off-road", for the cars with better than usual handling on non-asphalt terrain (LM002, Melange, Lotus).
Good one. Probably the main property that doesn't fit another stat, unless I can work it in with the grip line somehow. Something like "(ice/4)" behind it or something? (Actually, that's not that bad an idea, assuming there are no cars that get a bonus of either dirt or ice but not both, that would complicate things a bit...)

Speaking of grip. I posted this in the Zakstunts comments yesterday, but I'm trying out a way to stat it: (car length (technically half length, but the effect is the same)/handling parameter)/the same number for the Indy. It gives some reasonable sounding numbers, but they might look a bit too precise for how pretty rough they actually are. These are some of the numbers that come rolling out:
Countach, GTO, Corvette 34%, Acura, LM002 37%, Carrera 38%, Lancia, Audi 46%, F40 70%, Superkart 82%, Jaguar 83%, P962, Audi DTM 84%, Mercedes DTM 86%, BMW DTM 87%, Indy 100%.
It does show the gap between slow and fast cars pretty well, and it does show how the DTM cars manage to make up time in the corners compared to the IMSA's... Even the kart is kind of in the right place. While it feels very quick around the corners I don't think it's actually faster then say the P962...

I don't think there is an established name yet. "First Gear Powergear" sounds appropriate.
Might get abbreviated to 1st gear powergear to make it fit (currently positioning it in the gear box line), but yes, I think that's the term I'm going with.

Colours for categories is perhaps a little more in line with TCG tradition; still, I like both ideas. One way of combining them that might work would be using a star rating on the top of the card to suggest difficulty (it would be akin to a mana cost in a TCG, with a high rating conveying "this is costly/complex/difficult to pull off, bu the payoff can be fearsome").
Colors for categories does look pretty cool. Thinking of a color scheme a bit like this (text is a work in progress, meant as a guideline for writers to pick categories for the car or trick they're writing for):

I think it is important not to use contrasting colours for the background of the main text box, for the sake of readability. Different shades of the same colour, on the other hand, might be fine. One thing I can envision is picking an image (it could be a single one for all cards, or something car-specific like a detail from the dashboard) and tinting it monochrome with the card background colour.
I love the idea of the dashboard or a dashboard feature in the background like this. That would be so cool. I just haven't figure out how to properly do it. Another idea I had is continuing the main colors of the image (for most picture that's road grey, grass green and/or water blue) all the way down, kind of stretching out the world inside the image to the whole card. It looks pretty cool on the concept art below. It's also not a lot of work and the text is legible on it. The big difference with any other style is that it doesn't split the card into an image and a text section as clearly, which makes it look less like a regular car card.

Speaking of concept art, here it is. A car and a trick (I'm focusing on the cars, but with 11 original cars, custom cars dripping in (and out) at a pretty small rate and many people having a handful of favorites we're going to run out of stuff to write pretty soon).

It would be fun if the text for the tricks could be closer to that for the cars, having a bunch of stats, but I have no clue how to do that while still having them be helpful.

EDIT: Wait, does anyone happen to know what font Stunts itself uses? It doesn't seem ideal, too long/wide, but it would fit the flavor, and is very clear at low resolution... On second thought, it's probably some special render, only does one size, and thus not really a font. So I'd have to cut everything together from separate letters. No thanks.

There's a big gap in professionalization. The men you see at the world championships were scouted by a national top club when they were ten, spend their teenage years in a top sports highschool program where half the class was their team, and got drafted by an international top club when they were seventeen where they were coached by pretty much the best staff in the world. These women practised twice a week at amateur level until getting drafted for something bigger in their college years, and that something bigger still includes an education or a day job on the side. In the men's competition that's the life of a second devision semi-pro at best. Combine that with the larger talent pool men have from all those little hopeful 5 year old boys joining their local club, and that's all on top of any physical differences.

In many other sports everyone has that kind of life, so the difference is much less noticable. Even if in many sports the competitors are much more fanatical about being the absolute best, the available means just aren't the same.

On the upside: much less hooligans in the women's competition.

Stunts Related Programs / Re: Car cards!
« on: July 04, 2019, 10:14:20 PM »
You know what, I'm just going to do it, car cards. (I'm saving the tricks for a potential second series.)

I will be shopping the cards together based on text and preferably also a picture people provide. If you figure you know how to use a car, you can write the card. But first things first, I want input on the design to turn the current concept into something we can all agree on.

Here is my concept design:

The stuff I need input on (you can address as few or as many as you like):

Text: Is this the right amount of text? Are these the right categories/paragraphs? The idea is that every car will get its information shoved into the same categories, so they should work for every car. Are top speed and acceleration really important enough to list them like this? Are the titles of the categories okay? Is this a format in which you can convey how to drive a car, at least well enough that people can start practicing?

For easy reference, this is roughly the amount of text that fits into this format:
Top speed: 154/156mph

0-60/100: 2.9/5.6s

Properties: Fast, Custom, Short,

Tips: The Superkart can take a large
corner at top speed. It is prone to
magic carpets. It is great for inside
loopcuts due to its small width. It can
be tempting to use automatic gears,
but the brakes are strong, shifting
down slows you down more precise.

Best use: Tracks with lots of corners
and few straights.

Properties: What are all the properties a car can have? Fast, Slow (both about cornering and feel, if the numbers for top speed and acceleration stay separate, maybe name them differently to clarify that?), Medium-Fast? (For cars like the F40 and LWT ZR1-GT3 maybe? Or just don't list them as either slow or fast?) Rigid Powergear, Flexible Powergear, Anti-Powergear, How do you call what the Speedgate has, First Gear Powergear?, Short, Long, 6-speed, Original, Custom, Wide?, What's a good word for not wide? anything else?

Text formatting: What do you think about the size, font (current font is Arial Nova Bold), distance between lines etc?

Colors: I'd like to stick to the Stunts ingame Palette, agreed? That would be these colors:

Outer line color: I'd like to do something with this. I was thinking, maybe have different colors for fast and slow and powergear cars? Something like that, so it reflects certain categories? Otherwise we could use one of the series of related colors to show a gradient, lighter=faster or something? Or just match it to the car's color? EDIT: Oh, oh, we could make it a difficulty rating, how hard is this car to master? It wouldn't be spelled out on the card, because that's discouraging, but there's still an automatic omnious vibe from a red or black card. Probably have 3 or 4 steps. Something straightforward like the Jaguar is easy, something like the Vette (poor cornering combined with rigid powergear, 6 gears) is hard.

Extra outer line: Should there be a "fake printed card" white border with rounded corners around the card? I'm leaning towards no.

Fill for text space: I don't like completely white, I do kind of like taking one color from the picture and letting it run through like this (it looks a little weird, but also kind of cool) but I'm certainly open to other suggestions and variations.

Picture: My idea is to have a single non-animated picture. A screenshot from outside the car, stretched from 320x200 to 640X480 (but oldschool pixelated stretching, no mixing colors), the way the game was meant to be viewed. There should not be a replay bar or dashboard in the picture. Minor modifications are allowed (I can do those) to remove things like the "replay" text or the mouse or to make details like Crashper's face above look better. The picture is best if the car, in its iconic primary paint scheme, looks really big in it (my example is a really small car the zoom doesn't go any closer), if the situation portrayed fits the car (the kart in a corner, the Lancia on dirt or ice, the Indy in a huge jump...) and bonus points for style if it's a picture from some sort of historic replay (the one above is from Renato Biker winning ZCT131, a race with almost all karts, on a track designed by the designer of the kart (a cool guy by the way, that designer)).

Method of distribution: I can just pack the pictures up as a combined zip, that would be the easiest option. But if anyone has any fancier ideas like a website or an actual trading game where you have to earn cards off of other pipsqueaks or earn one per race you join or something I'm listening.

Anything else? Major stuff I'm forgetting?

(The card above is an example, the information isn't super thought out yet. Advising against the automatic gear for instance is a bit of a mixed bag. But feedback is welcome if you have it...)

Netherlands vs USA, this Sunday, let's go! Hype!

(All the cool kids here are following the womens championship this year, so I thought I'd try it on for size.)

Stunts Related Programs / Re: Car cards!
« on: July 02, 2019, 02:05:53 PM »
Mmmh, I wonder if this connects to the driving school ideas ::)

Yeah, probably. On the one hand a full video tutorial would be more helpful in learning a trick, on the other hand a webpage full of quick-start guides with as little text and pictures as possible would be better for quickly finding the trick you need. And if we streamline the process a bit it might be less work to make.

As a bonus, my concept art of this card format looks better than my previous attempt too.

(This card made possible by lenticular printing.)

(Also, I'm just missing the space to say that that extra one usually only works when jumping on, driving into the middle of the barrier will usually just crash you. Cards are small.)

Competition 2019 / Re: ZCT215 - Wateris
« on: June 30, 2019, 10:15:42 PM »
I think your chances at any kind of good inside loopcut (other than the straight throughcut) increase with having less speed, with having a wider angle of approach(which often means having a better steering car) and with having a smaller car width. But I haven't found a way to reliably call on any specific subtype.

Stunts Related Programs / Re: Car cards!
« on: June 30, 2019, 12:09:41 AM »
You know, to dig this topic up again, maybe in addition to or instead of car cards we should have trick cards, to help newer drivers literally build up a book of tricks. Anything non-obvious, like running through a slalom block, speedups from highways/halfpipes etc. Take the recent ZCT215 Watetris. There’s a loop, followed by a cork up/down. That combination means you can do an outside loopcut into invisibridge, but I wouldn’t have known that if I hadn’t (re?)learned the outside loopcut in ZCT206 Relativistic (which paid off when I used it to great effect in ZCT214 Accuracy) and if I hadn’t picked up the invisibridge in ZCT210 Lynx. On the one hand it’s a lot of fun to learn these things on the go and surprise people by using them, on the other hand it might raise the level of competition if more people have the tools to come up with the right trick to use. (Note: this post was made before the hidden replays were published. I currently have no idea is the trick described in this paragraph led to a dirty victory or was valiantly defended against. I'm guessing that second one.)

There could be an image of the trick being performed, from whichever camera makes it clearest (maybe even a short animated GIF since these are for now digital cards anyway?) and then maybe some text like:
Trick: Outside Loopcut
Element: Loop
Execution: Wrap around the outside edge of a loop to launch your car far to the right of where a normal jump could take you, including straight ahead.
Properties: Shortcut, Speedup, Jumpcut, Big Air
Risks: Twist around too far and you crash upon landing.

The cars might be better off with a similar format as well, where we forget about having stats and numbers and just try to write the best driving advice, like how some cars are faster when sliding around the corner, or how they have a bonus on dirt and ice elements, or how they have a large gap between flat road and real top speed and can benefit from lots of speedups, or their width is small making them good for stunts like inside loopcuts, or they have an exceptionally short/long jump length, or…

Something like:
Car: Porsche March Indy
Categories: Fast, Flexible Powergear, Original
Pros: Fastest car in the game, best handling, powergear accessible by driving into a loop in top gear
Cons: None
Best use: Tracks where powergear is hard to reach, or where a powergear section is intercut with tricky turns

Basically, you look at a track, see certain properties of the track, and start flipping through your cars and tricks looking for which one can do something with those. Like the more experienced drivers already do, except you don’t need to have it memorized (or read the wiki).

As for the making process, we should get specialists/experts to write them. You can write the card for a car if you’ve ever won a race with it. ;)

Stunts Chat / Re: A very interesting Stunts v1.1 bug
« on: May 19, 2019, 02:28:38 PM »
I remember this bug (flying up high in a near straight up line, coming back down and crashing) from playing as a kid. I think the launches mostly involved bumping into things, but it's honestly too long ago to be sure.

Motor sports, Racing / Re: Formula One in 2019
« on: May 17, 2019, 06:14:58 PM »
When Zandvoort returns to the F1 calender next year it will have a banked corner. Plans for a loop/corkscrew combination on the outgoing leg assumedly stranded in the budgeting fase.  ;)

General Chat - ZSC / Re: Licensing tracks and replays
« on: May 15, 2019, 02:22:52 PM »
Wasn't Happy Birthday actually freed from copyright in a semi-recent court case due to a mix of age, questionable evidence and a questionable link between the authors and the current supposed rightsholder? Zorro became public domain in a similar process a few years back. I also don't think a lot of people are getting rich by disputing false claims against them. Years of lost time and a weak apology is a more likely result.

Most copyright laws have some version of a clause for reasonable private use in them. Listening to your friend's CD is typically covered under those. In some cases these laws go quite far. In the Netherlands the legal status of downloading is still quite fuzzy because if I make a copy of something for private use that's allowed, and apparently it's quite hard to make an exception on that exception for copying stuff I don't actually own.

It might be a difference modern speakers can't render anymore because they automatically run the higher option. Is the sound for PC speakers and a sound card even different anymore?

General Chat - ZSC / Re: Licensing tracks and replays
« on: May 14, 2019, 05:50:15 PM »
I think, making a Mickey mouse shaped track doesn't count as copyright infringement

At the very least it won't be detectable by a filter. ;)

(Making a Mickey Mouse shaped track would go under parody, which is usually legal except maybe if you use Disney's own footage of the character, or maybe a character design too close to the real thing to be told apart, neither applies in this case. I just felt it was a nice lighter line to end on.)

General Chat - ZSC / Re: Licensing tracks and replays
« on: May 14, 2019, 01:20:41 PM »
I disagree. I respect your viewpoint as a content creator sick of the current system, but I don't see this change doing any good for you or in general.

It is true that the latest version of the directive includes an exception for article 13/17, the upload filter. You are except if you meet all three of the following criteria:
Your service has an annual turnover of less than 10 million dollars, it has fewer than 5 million unique monthly visitors, and it exists for less than 3 years.
That's not any of those criteria, that's all of them. There are a few more explicit exceptions, like non-profit encyclopedia's and educational sites, but under a strict reading of the exact letter of the law, the interpretation most likely to hold up in court, a place like the Stunts Portal is not exempt and should show be able to show their best effort at a content filter for the attachment option. Plus places like Youtube already filter pretty much everything any corporate lawyer requests them to, with a technically functional but cheap and slow appeals system in place. That's not their fault, that's them bending to international copyright law in such a way that it will allow them to keep existing. Add more pressure to that and your life as a content creator is going to get worse, not better. More people will for instance get filtered because something they made themselves and uploaded was later stolen and broadcasted by a television show, making the clip end up in the filter and taking down the original video.

Also interesting to note: politicians have suggested that ones the upload filter is in place we might be able to piggyback on it to also filter child porn and/or extremist material. The interesting thing about this suggestion is that it's clearly an afterthought. We see the technical possibility for far reaching censorship rising on the horizon, and the first thing we do with it, our test case, the least morally questionable example of something we can risk dabbling in censorship and restricting freedom of expression for is copyright? Why don't we start with a child porn filter and see how that pans out? I mean, I know why, obviously, it's because a few large copyright holders have more money and lawyers than child porn victims. But it's not like they'll actually be paying for the filter is it? They're just paying for lobbyists and court cases, and they'll keep doing that anyway, so they're no more money to be made or less to be lost by using copyright as our testcase. So why do it?

But the article I have the biggest beef with personally is article 11/15, the link tax. This one also got an exception in the latest version. Small non-profit and personal use of links will still be allowed. Which means the Stunts Portal will not have to pay money for any links I place here, for instance to a news site. But news sites will still have to pay to link to each other. They can still copy the content of the news for free, they just can't show their sources. An article designed to let more revenue stream towards content creators is instead going to decrease both the revenue and the exposure of said creators. Writing good news articles first is going to become even less rewarding. And then there are scientific articles. A good article often uses several dozen other articles as sources for one thing or another. This makes information traceable, you can track any dubious claims back to their source and the proof for it. Having to pay to reference other material undermines this system.

Article 11/15 is a bad idea from the ground up, there's no amount of exceptions that will make this a good article, the basic idea is not going to work, in my opinion.

If anyone here is still making up their mind on what to vote in the upcoming European elections, the results of the copyright vote are publicly available, so you can check your own representatives. There are representatives in favor of the proposal across all of the political spectrum, but the Christian Democrats of the EPP group were in favor in particularly large numbers. In my native Netherlands they were the only people voting in favor of the directive, with the conservative socialists abstaining and the rest being against the directive. Funny, the two parties that didn´t vote against the directive are two parties always campaign with the idea that the EU needs to dictate less rules to us and that we need to put a brake on the cooperation. Well if you want less European rules CDA and SP, let´s start with not purposefully adding any bad ones okay?

But yeah, nothing changes either way for creating and uploading tracks for the Stunts competition, that can just continue. Maybe stay away from Mickey Mouse shaped tracks to be on the safe side. ;)

[/rant, back to driving]

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