Author Topic: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem  (Read 5839 times)

CTG

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ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« on: December 01, 2012, 12:18:04 PM »
Bonus points should be totally revised. Suggestion: as simple as possible. Even if I like numbers and stats, point system must be clear.

(In contrary, I have some really wild idea, like "Podium time bonus" instead of LTB to decrease the demotivating factor of an early strong replay. I'm going to explain if you are interested in it.)

dreadnaut

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2012, 01:32:55 PM »
Bonus points should be totally revised.

As in malus points! Skip a race, some points will be taken away. Then your car, and you house.

zaqrack

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2012, 02:00:34 PM »
Bonus points should be totally revised. Suggestion: as simple as possible. Even if I like numbers and stats, point system must be clear.

(In contrary, I have some really wild idea, like "Podium time bonus" instead of LTB to decrease the demotivating factor of an early strong replay. I'm going to explain if you are interested in it.)

explain please.

CTG

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2012, 02:43:00 PM »
Leading Time Bonus is generally a good idea, but the current system doesn't really support the original will. 1 or 2 points bonus can't motivate a middle class pipsqueak to keep up with the top dogs, especially if XY or (typically) RB sends a very strong replay already in the first few days. And why would they fight for temporary 2nd or 3rd places in the middle of the month? It would be nice to give the possibility to 3-4 pipsqueaks instead of 2 to get some bonus points and probably it would lead to sharp races even in the upper middle class.

'Podium time bonus' could be a solution as an extension of LTB.  My pre-conception is to calculate it as follows:

PT = 1.0 * (time spent in first position) + 0.6 * (time spent at 2nd place) + 0.4 * (time spent at 3rd place)

And without limiting to two pipsqueaks:
+ 3 PTB: over 500 hours
+ 2 PTB: over 250 hours
+ 1 PTB: over 100 hours

Of course these numbers must be optimized.

Friker

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2012, 03:46:35 PM »
Which leads to a completely new system:
pipsqueks' score (PS) = 12*(time spent at 1st p.) + 11*(time s. at 2nd p.) + 10*(time s. at 3rd p.) + ... + 1*(time s. at 12th p.) + 0.1*(time s. at places below). ;)

There could be a modification:
PS2 = (PS + final position) / 2.

Well, this system is completely nonsense in the real world (imagine that in F1 :) ), but it is worth to try in this competition. :) Even middle class pipsqueaks could earn some points with an early good replay.

Duplode

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2012, 07:14:34 PM »
Uh, I though CTG had called for a system "as simple as possible"  ;D

CTG

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2012, 07:52:27 PM »
Uh, I though CTG had called for a system "as simple as possible"  ;D

In contrary, I have some really wild idea, like "Podium time bonus" instead of LTB to decrease the demotivating factor of an early strong replay.

!

Friker

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2012, 11:49:18 PM »
Uh, I though CTG had called for a system "as simple as possible"  ;D

My presented system is sipmpler than the current one for me (and much more than CTG's).

Duplode

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 05:33:03 AM »
Which leads to a completely new system:
pipsqueks' score (PS) = 12*(time spent at 1st p.) + 11*(time s. at 2nd p.) + 10*(time s. at 3rd p.) + ... + 1*(time s. at 12th p.) + 0.1*(time s. at places below). ;)

There could be a modification:
PS2 = (PS + final position) / 2.

Well, this system is completely nonsense in the real world (imagine that in F1 :) ), but it is worth to try in this competition. :) Even middle class pipsqueaks could earn some points with an early good replay.

With such a system, missing the first two weeks of a race would limit a pipsqueak to 75% of the maximum possible points. In effect, that would replicate all of the current problems with EB, except we would be talking about days instead of months...

Akoss Poo

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 08:53:02 AM »
I don't think I'm going to race regularly in the next season, but just some ideas:

- I never liked any bonus system, I think the final season standings should only contain the results of the 12 tracks, without leading time, endurance or any bonuses

But if there are any:

- it is very hard to eliminate the rewarding of an early strong replay with keeping leading time bonus, it is a consequence of the insistence to this kind of bonus... I think the main goal should be not this (there's nothing really wrong with it if we accept that there is LTB), but rather to avoid sending 0.05 seconds faster replays constantly (it clearly favours computer addicts)... to do so, the leading time bonus can be higher (maybe as much as 10 points), but divided by the sent leading replays

- I don't see any reason to reward 'a middle class r@cer sending a good replay early'... but if it is really necessary, i recommend something like this (to avoid boring mid months and to help middle class r@cers): a r@cer who managed to reach the 102%/103%/105% of the winning replay or sends a replay lesser than 2/3/5 seconds worse than the final winning replay in the first one/two/three weeks of the competition, gets plus 1/2/3 points

- the endurance bonus is not a bad idea to make the drivers race constantly, it is worthy to keep it

- even who reaches a maximum bonus in a month (including endurance bonus fraction) and finishes second should not score higher than a winner who sends his replay in the last minute (with having only this replay in the whole year)... the winner should be the winner on a track, and on the final scoreboard as well

I also do not agree with the car usage system, but it is the pointsystem topic.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 08:56:35 AM by Akoss Poo »
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Friker

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2012, 10:02:29 AM »
I'm starting to get the feeling the best way is to do it without any bonuses..

Another funny idea without bonuses: pipsqueaks should sign them on a participants list in the first week and only those will be evaluated at the end. For me time hiding is not a problem (whole ltb thing). I have more difficulties with "player hiding" - I want to see who is racing and who is not. :) (you should register to a competition in advance in the real world also. registered players with unsent replays should be penalized.)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 10:57:31 AM by Friker »

Akoss Poo

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2012, 10:35:51 AM »
I'm starting to get the feeling the best way is to do it without any bonuses..

I'm saying that since LTB was introduced ten years ago. :-)
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BonzaiJoe

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2012, 11:27:42 AM »
Two realities of life without bonuses:

1. The first 30 days are eventless, and 80% of all replays are sent on the last day. Only the last day of the month is of any significance in Stunts.
2. Winner of the season is not the best pipsqueak, but the best consistent pipsqueak, who does not miss a race. Same thing further down the scoreboard. 12 6th-places beats 8 4th-places.
But we can't be quite sure.


Akoss Poo

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2012, 11:54:40 AM »
Two realities of life without bonuses:

1. The first 30 days are eventless, and 80% of all replays are sent on the last day. Only the last day of the month is of any significance in Stunts.
2. Winner of the season is not the best pipsqueak, but the best consistent pipsqueak, who does not miss a race. Same thing further down the scoreboard. 12 6th-places beats 8 4th-places.

1. There's nothing wrong with the fact that the perfect replay is only formed on the winning driver's computer on the last day. What's the use of constant braking during the month to send and send 0.05 seconds faster replays? It is a tactical possibility to try not to show the best reachable time. A driver should find out the best reachable time by himself (I really think this is an important skill which is not apparent on the scoreboards here since ages), not by checking the scoreboard and drive against other times.  And anybody remembering ZCT 16? Was there any leading time bonus?...

2. Who forces you to miss any race? Looking the enthusiasm of some pipsqueaks here, it would be surprising to see any top pipsqueak missing races. And one more thing: it depends on the scoring system. For example with the classic Formula One point system (10-6-4-3-2-1) the factor of missing a race can easily be mitigated. Or with saying 'the worst two results don't count'. I'm sure that the best driver wins without meaningless bonuses, too...
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Chulk

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Re: ZakStunts 2013 pointsystem
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2012, 03:45:32 PM »
Here's what I think about

LEADING TIME: I think leading time bonus makes the month boring (and even demotivating sometimes) if a very strong replay is sent in the first few days. To make it more exciting throughout the entire month, I would suggest something like Mark's checkpoints idea (say 10th and 20th or weekly) and give bonus points for leading in those checkpoints, only if an improvement of 'X'% was done. That would keep the top dogs from sending an ultra fast replay on the first day, because that would keep them from getting bigger bonuses. And that would also help those consistent drivers that send replays every week, allowing them to get bonus even if they're not the fastest on track.

ENDURANCE BONUS: I think we should change it to 3 races (same amount of races which results won't count) and 1-2-3 or maybe 1-2-4. This should be taken a little further, maybe by stating a replay must be 'X'% of the winning replay (to avoid obvious listfillers or that circle around the finish line CTG mentioned) or at least 2 replays/month (or both, to avoid 2 circles around the finish line)

PS: Friker's idea of registration in the 1st week sounds good, but the problem with that is most of us have jobs/university/family and such, and that makes it hard to know in advance if we'll have some free time, even on weekends.
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