Author Topic: Bliss - Race for Immortality  (Read 703 times)

Cas

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Bliss - Race for Immortality
« on: October 19, 2016, 03:34:42 AM »
As I've mentioned in ZakStunts's chat, I've created a single-race parallel tournament. It's called "Race for Immortality" (Copyright(C) - Duplode 2016 :P) because the results obtained from this race will be placed in Bliss Editor time estimation table in the "famous pipsqueaks" section. Because the results need to serve the purpose of measuring the length of a track and of estimating the time it'd take for each famous pipsqueak on other tracks, this race has to be OWOOT (otherwise, shortcuts would make this estimation completely random). Also, since time estimations in Bliss are based on Porsche March Indy, this is the chosen car for the race. I think the track I made is probably too hard for NoRH, but if you dare try it that way, it would be very interesting to have both results :)

To join the tournament, go to the Bliss racing website and register your pipsqueak name and password near the bottom of the page. Download the track and race it until you obtain a valid replay, as usual, then post it by entering your pipsqueak name and password and uploading the replay just above the pipsqueak registration box.

How the high score table works: Your time will automatically be submitted as "pending" meaning the verification is pending. If you submit any other replay while your current one is pending, it will be replaced with the new one, even if it is worse. When I come online, I'll go to the administration panel and check the replays. If a replay is valid, I'll set it as "verified", which you will be able to see in the scoreboard. At this point, if you submit another replay, both will be visible. It is only your pending replay that will be replaced if you send another one. Once I verify the new replay, it will become verified and the older one will be removed from the table.

Specific rules: You must race with Porsche March Indy, either manual or automatic. This race is OWOOT, meaning exactly that (one wheel on or over the track at all times). The "wheel" of a corkscrew or loop are considered part of the track, as well as the pavement inside a tunnel, so these stunts must be executed and can't be skipped. You can, however, jump over the boulevard in the middle of the highway as long as one wheel remains on or over the pavement. Going through slalom "stones" is not allowed. Penalty time is not allowed either. It would ruin the purpose of measuring for which this track was designed. Replay handling is allowed, but read below.

About replay handling: Because replay handling does not mess with the stunt timings, it is allowed. However, it would be very interesting to see the differences between RH and NoRH. If you are going to race with NoRH, register as pipsqueak name + "NoRH". If you will race with both systems, create two pipsqueak profiles. For example, I will be "Cas" and "Cas NoRH". Post your replays with the corresponding pipsqueak name. In the future, I may adapt the system to better handle these things, if there's another race.

Finally, I will feel very honoured if the legends of the Stunts community participate in my race :)  Just like the Bliss editor, this race is made for you, guys, so if there's anything you'd like to suggest or criticise, do it.
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alanrotoi

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2016, 02:29:33 AM »
When is the replay public? Not the lap time, I mean the replay :)

Duplode

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2016, 03:03:29 AM »
RH test lap sent! And yes, this does look like a fantastically hard NoRH+OWOOT track. (And I don't even think the double-gap jump will be the biggest problem...)

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2016, 02:20:05 AM »
Quote from: Cas at the scoreboard page
Alan Rotoi: Car runs on top of tunnel @0:11.50. Otherwise, amazing replay! I really regret not being able to validate this one. Please do post another one.

Having to brake in order to drop into the tunnel felt so weird -- at first I had absolutely no clue about the correct braking point! Perhaps half of my NoRH laps yesterday were thrown away right there  :D

alanrotoi

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2016, 10:58:55 PM »
Oh come on! That's over the road!  >:(

alanrotoi

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2016, 11:00:42 PM »
And why the replay is public?? God.

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2016, 01:36:58 AM »
And why the replay is public?? God.

Though the horse has bolted already, the link for those replays really should be removed. (I, for one, haven't watched them, and don't plan to do so.)

alanrotoi

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2016, 03:18:11 PM »
Well... now aburaf's replay isn't public anymore... but mine still is... what the hell?

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2016, 03:48:28 PM »
Well... now aburaf's replay isn't public anymore... but mine still is... what the hell?

AbuRaf's replay is not public because he submitted a second (valid) replay, and the scoreboard only displays the latest one submitted. (In other words, Cas didn't manually hide AbuRaf's replay either; the system did it by itself.)

alanrotoi

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2016, 11:10:11 PM »
Oh! My apologies then!

BTW I still don't understand the rules. They aren't specific. Maybe is an "added" rule like going across the slalom blocks. Also I regret about the public replay :(

Cas, please explain precise rules.

Cas

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2016, 11:17:45 PM »
Hey!  Sorry, guys, I hadn't seen then thread lately.

I apologise about the public-replay issue. I originally developed the ability to make replays public in case they really should be public for some reason. Rejection of a replay, instead, currently causes the deletion of the replay from the list and from the server. Then when I checked Alan's replay I realised by rejecting, I might be making it also unavailable to himself and that the system should have something to allow one to see their own replays and receive a private message in case of errors. At that point, mistakenly, as I see, I thought the best I could do was making it public. AbuRaf's original replay was also made public, but when he submitted the second one, I manually deleted the older replay. Only about a day elapsed and apparently, nobody got to see it.

I'm currently working on a better interface that will include private messaging, ability to see your own replays or make the public if you wish, better handling of rejected replays, among other things. I'm sorry about the inconvenience. I'll now remove the replay from the list.

About the under-the-tunnel rule, I'll explain myself too:
  • I originally thought of OWOOT the way it was in Paleke's WSC, where among other things, driving over a tunnel roof was allowed
  • On last track, when racing GAR, I used this assumption to drive over a tunnel roof, which caused my replay to be invalid, as Marco pointed out
  • While driving on the roof is textually "over the road", I understood Marco's point as that "performing all stunts" would include tunnels, since the way of executing them would be to drive under the roof. For this reason, I decided to apply that rule to this race
  • Still, I personally don't have a problem with not using that rule, but since other pipsqueaks have already submitted their replays with it, I just couldn't take it back. For future races, I will consider what's really best and make it totally clear in the rules

Again, really sorry about the confusion and discomfort.

EDIT: I'm currently working. As soon as I finish, I'll update the table and clear out the rules on the page. Slalom blocks are not to be passed through either, but speed-ups are allowed as long as you don't go off-track. This is because going through a slalom makes you not "perform the stunt", even though you're still on the road. Speeding up on a boulevard does not prevent you from executing a stunt. As long as a wheel remains or or over the asphalt, it's OK. You can't, however, drive with all wheels on the middle of the boulevard.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 11:21:03 PM by Cas »
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alanrotoi

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 11:33:27 PM »
No problem CAS! Don't change the rules! Just make them clear. I think I'm out of date about OWOOTR rules because my inicial doubt was if we must do the corkscrew complete or we can jump them (just like in ISA/IRC change of rules back in 2002/2003). If the rest of the replay is ok I think I won't have problem to redrive it. ;)


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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2016, 11:45:26 PM »
Thanks for your understanding, Alan. I already deleted the replay from the list. I still would like to write a complete set of rules on the page. I'll do that when I finish today's work.
So basically, the rules for this race are based on two principles: semantic OWOOT (i.e.: exactly what it means) and "all stunts to be performed". Everything else derives from those two.

My plan is not keeping this same set of rules for future tracks. I have a new modality in mind, which Duplode already knows about. A much, much more free one, still OWOOT-like. Now it's an experimental idea, so discussing it would be good!

For future tracks:
Mi idea, is (perhaps temporarily) called "NAWOG" = Not All Wheels On Grass. Meaning exactly that. As long as not all four wheels are touching grass, you're OK. So, if you're in the air, you're free. If you manage to drive on water, that's OK. On top of that, penalty time would be irrelevant. If you get penalty time, it would not be computed. The NAWOG rule would take care of your not shortening the track too much. No penalty system is necessary. Finally, to make sure no trivial solutions are found, driving wrong way is not allowed. Tracks would be created with the effects of these three rules in mind :)

Any thought about this concept will be appreciated :)
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alanrotoi

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2016, 09:05:27 AM »
Nice idea but it's just the same as a track built completely on water. If you are interested I had a project for a Hunting Stunts Competition. Check the rules:


I created a chasing competition that you race against bernie and there are two ways. Bernie will take the shorter and you must take the longer. To win you must crash your car against bernie's in the shorter time possible. It was called "Hunting". But I had no time to organize it and the idea was discarded.


RULES

THE HUNTING
The only way which we going to consider  the opponent as "hunted" is when you hit his car with yours and both explode at the same time. The time that will be taken will be the same moment at  both leaves the first flame cars and your windscreen are broken. The cases that won't be considerated could be: the opponent crashs by himself, or if you hit him but your car follows healthy.

THE TRACK
 We can divide the track in three sections: green, yellow and red, as one is in the graph. In the green section it is where the race against an opponent begins (we suppose in this case who the prey is Bernie). In this part of the track that shares you will not be able to hit, to touch, to cause that it restrains, or make no hint to the opponent, nor you must leave him does it. You only must follow straight without counting on his presence. You can't hunt to the opponent while he/she or you they are in this section.
 In the yellow section it is when the opponent (Bernie CPU) and you separate and follow different ways. Bernie will take the shortest way towards the goal while you will have to take the longest way, previously indicated. You can't hunt the opponent while he/she or you are in this section.
The red section begins from the place in where both ways are united, yours and the other. Here also it is when the hunting of the opponent begins. Only from the point in which ways are united both, you can hunt it. You must do it before the opponent arrives at the finish line.

DRIVE RULES
As far as the handling rules, we are going to use the ISA rules.






(I guess I used an automatic translation... just wow... sorry :D
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 09:08:10 AM by alanrotoi »

Cas

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Re: Bliss - Race for Immortality
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2016, 09:19:59 PM »
That is indeed a very good concept. Yeah, I would like to implement whatever racing style really attracts the interest of pipsqueaks. The objective of my NAWOG idea would be that one could ignore penalty time completely, but in order to do this, some degree of OWOOT is necessary (so that one doesn't just go around the finish line) and wrong way driving must be forbidden (so that one doesn't just turn around). Without penalty time to worry about, one could take every possible path, including turning in crossroads or jumping from a path to another one near. Maybe a set of rules like this could be used instead of ISA for chasing.

Only thing that I'm concerned about is that the red track section would have to be very, very simple, to ensure the opponent will not crash accidentally. So, for the track to be fun racing, the length of that section should also be carefully calculated. I would say the red section is actually divided in two parts:
  • Red section before the yellow section rejoins: This part can be boring, because the pipsqueak will never drive it. It should be as long as possible, but not so long that the pipsqueak can reach the second section before the opponent.
  • Red section after the yellow section rejoins: Ideally, the pipsqueak should reach the prey within the first tiles of this section. It should consist mostly on straightways and simple turns, to minimise the chance of the pipsqueak jumping over or otherwise accidentally passing the prey, unless this is precisely what we want.
Anyway, many things, we won't know until we try this. It'd be good to estimate how much faster a human pipsqueak can be than a CPU opponent.
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