Author Topic: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!  (Read 983 times)

Overdrijf

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Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« on: December 21, 2020, 10:18:08 PM »
In the past the Stunts community has seen track design competitions, and there has been talk of things like revitalizing the Zakstunts permanent competition by having one track from each year going forward join the permanent tracks. In that kind of general spirit, and to try and encourage the many talented track designers this community have who give their all for every design they do I present: the election of the best track of Zakstunts season 2020!

How it works:

To vote for in this election, you make a post in this topic in which you sort all of this year's Zakstunts tracks into three categories: good tracks (0 points), great tracks (1 point) and totally awesometastic tracks (2 points). You can have as many or as few tracks in each category as you like, each track gets the number of points that come with that category.

You qualify for voting if you have partaken in any Zakstunts race or other Stunts portal related racing event (Race for Kicks, live races etc) during 2020 or any previous year (and you weren't one of CTG's ghosts  8)). So that's everyone here. You can vote for these tracks using any criteria you like, and you can choose freely to explain your reasons or not. If you were the designer of one or more of the 2020 Zakstunts tracks you cannot vote for your own track(s), but your track(s) get(s) a free point ones you vote for the other tracks, as if you had ordered them in the "great" category. Voting is open until the end of January. Ones it is the first of February 2021 everywhere on Earth new votes will no longer be counted. The track with the highest point total wins.

(Legal note: this election was not passed by Zakstunt's main administrator or executive commission before publishing, no rights (other than bragging rights) can be derived from winning this competition. Complains about the procedure can be directed towards Overdrijf, who will surely take any suggestions into consideration for next year.)

(Yes, the results would look less brutally harsh towards whichever track ends up getting the fewest points if the categories were worth 1, 2 and 3 points respectively, but this way I need less fingers to do the counting.)

The contenders:

ZCT222: Defensive Driving


ZCT223: Sand am Main


ZCT224: Addition


ZCT225: PSX Madness


ZCT226: Terra Australis


ZCT227: Run Through the Jungle


ZCT228: Messa


ZCT229: b²-4ac


ZCT230: Rattlesnake


ZCT231: Kowloon


ZCT232: Serial Killer


ZCT233: Home Office


Start your engines, fasten your seatbelts, vote!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 01:01:04 AM by Overdrijf »

Overdrijf

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2020, 10:57:42 PM »
As for my own votes, to get things started:

Good Tracks (0 points):
ZCT224: Addition. A good example of how even the "0 points" tracks can already be brilliant little jewels. That turning point provided quite possibly THE shortcut of the season. Overall the track is just a tad short though.
ZCT225: PSX Madness. I love a track with cool terrain, I doubly love a track that uses its cool terrain. This track sort of has to get out of the way of its cool terrain. Plus I'm not the biggest fan of small icy corners. Fair is fair though, the obstacles set up around the corners to help you take them were really well done.
ZCT228: Messa. This kind of track is just so pretty to look at, and it's a neat sensation to need to have a map ready while racing. It's maybe just a little too much "here's some sand road for you to drive on" for my personal taste.
ZCT229: b²-4ac. Tricky corners were the name of the game here. I loved the potential of that loop into turnaround.

Great tracks (1 point):
ZCT223: Sand am Main. A technical, "slow" track, but deceptively fast ones you start getting the hang of the shortcuts. More than meets the eye.
ZCT226: Terra Australis. Look at that map! Look at it! It's beautiful! The track utilizes the map, is of a good length and has nice varied sections. This one might have gotten a little more out of its stunts though. I never figured out how to take that landmark raised loop and turn it into the most awesometastic stunts.
ZCT227: Run Through the Jungle. An understated masterpiece that celebrates the fast straights without getting too carried away by it, including a good amount of tricky corners. Could maybe use an extra dash of stunts and chicanes.
ZCT233: Home Office. Can I dislike a track because it's too hard for me? This one has a great balance between cool stunt combinations and good old fashioned technical cornering, which made it perfect for the deciding final battle.

Totally awesometastic tracks (2 points):
ZCT230: Rattlesnake. An element I didn't know yet! Wowzers! Also the rest of the track!
ZCT231: Kowloon. One of the many tracks this year I raced too little on and too late. The cool combinations here are nearly endless. We could just do this one for another month and still see improvement.
ZCT232: Serial Killer: Reminds me a bit of ZCT214 Accuracy. It's one of those powergear tracks that really makes you work for that line.

Tracks designed (1 point):
ZCT222: Defensive Driving.

I hope that didn't insult anyone. If it did, you know which track to release your anger on.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 01:03:45 AM by Overdrijf »

Cas

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2020, 05:14:16 AM »
Before anybody else votes and, taking advantage of the fact that Overdrijf already voted 4/4/4, I would like to suggest that, instead of being able to put any number of tracks in each category, we are forced to put 4 in each. Otherwise, some of us may feel forced to put more tracks in the higher categories or to not leave a track alone in the lower category!

I want to make my own vote, but I have to think about it and re-race each of the tracks, so I won't do it right now.

Also, Race For Kicks is open to add the winning track to the permanent competition and/or to create one OWOOT race on the winning track in the next season :)

EDIT: Sorry. It's 12 tracks and one made by himself. Overdrijf voted 4/4/3 + 1. So I change my suggestion to: 3 for any of the categories and 4 for the other two. What do you think?  If you made more than one track well, then let's generalise it this way: no category can have two more tracks than another category.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 05:17:58 AM by Cas »
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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2020, 11:21:48 AM »
Too bad, I don't remember most of them. Checking the maps does not ring a bell at all... ::)

However, I enjoyed ZCT227 and ZCT230 very much. The first one because of Acura powergear and helicopter finish. And Rattlesnake because of the clever use of magic elements (heritage of Krys "The Horny Frenchman" TÖFF?).

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2020, 02:49:04 PM »
Great initiative in reviving the track poll, Overdrijf! Like Cas, I will think for a little longer and then post my votes.

And Rattlesnake because of the clever use of magic elements (heritage of Krys "The Horny Frenchman" TÖFF?).

Every illusion track is TOFF legacy  :)

dreadnaut

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2020, 09:26:57 PM »
I'm in!

Good / 0p - honorable mentions
  • ZCT222 Defensive Driving - I enjoyed the outer ring, the inner part is a bit of missed chance
  • ZCT223 Sand am Main - a good mix, although it left only vague memories of icy corners
  • ZCT229 b²-4ac - a nice example of Leo's fast-slow-fast style, and an interestingly-placed loop
  • ZCT225 and ZCT228 - OK tracks, but no great memories ¯\_(?)_/¯
Great / 1p - tracks I will remember fondly
  • ZCT226 Terra Australis - best use of landscape, and a fun track
  • ZCT227 Run Through the Jungle - long straights can be fun!
  • ZCT230 Rattlesnake - nice illusions, but a couple of frustrating bits
Awesome / 2p - tracks I'd like to race on again
  • ZCT231 Kowloon - as Overdrijf put it, full of possibilities, a track that keeps on giving
  • ZCT233 Home Office - great trick combos, I drove it with multiple cars just for fun!
Own / 1p
  • ZCT224 Addition - was meant to be a slow-car track (hence short), then IMSA cars took over!
  • ZCT232 Serial Killer - USB replaced the serial port! serial killer! pun of the century! 8) - also meant for slower cars, but satisfying for powergear!
Otherwise, some of us may feel forced to put more tracks in the higher categories or to not leave a track alone in the lower category!
I'm not sure I get this: it sounds like forcing people to vote in a way, so they won't feel forced to vote another :confused:
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 01:34:21 PM by dreadnaut »

Overdrijf

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2020, 09:56:36 PM »
Otherwise, some of us may feel forced to put more tracks in the higher categories or to not leave a track alone in the lower category!
I'm not sure I get this: it sounds like forcing people to vote in a way, so they won't feel forced to vote another :confused:

Yeah, I'm not sure about that addition either. Maybe it doesn't quite fit the voting system.

Also, don't forget to rate the final two tracks dreadnaut, 225 and 228.

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2020, 10:41:49 PM »
Otherwise, some of us may feel forced to put more tracks in the higher categories or to not leave a track alone in the lower category!
I'm not sure I get this: it sounds like forcing people to vote in a way, so they won't feel forced to vote another :confused:

Yeah, I'm not sure about that addition either. Maybe it doesn't quite fit the voting system.

Also, don't forget to rate the final two tracks dreadnaut, 225 and 228.

I think its meant to make the  voting more balanced. So that not all points go to one track.
(like in eurovision you are limited to points you can give so each country is forced to make a ranking)
I first thought it was meant like that if someone got 0 points on his track from somebody that he would be tempted to give that somebody 0 points in return. But I hope we are all above that.
I believe it is a well-meant and fair addition.

Anyway, although I know most tracks, I didn't compete, so I'll refrain from voting myself.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 10:44:10 PM by Daniel3D »
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Overdrijf

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2020, 11:56:44 PM »
(like in eurovision you are limited to points you can give so each country is forced to make a ranking)

Okay. In that case, that's a good example of a voting system I don't like, because the chances of a contestant depend heavily on the pretense or absence of specific other contestants.

Warning: I'm going on a huge big tangent here that has nothing to do with tracks, to explain why I chose this method to begin with. I just want to show that I did put some thought into this and explain why I made the choice I made, even though there are a bazillion other ways to do this with each their own pro's and con's.

I am not trying to win an argument here. While I'm going to build a case for why the way I set the poll up works I know that most if not all of you, not in the least someone with the obvious organizational chops and IT knowledge of Cas, could build just as good a counter case. So think of the following tangent less as a way to prove I'm right and more of a way to prove I am right enough, this is a valid way to do things. I notice I don't have [spoiler] tags on this forum, so instead I'll make the text... green? I hope that's legible.

Let's say seven people are picking a movie to watch, and they're picking from Jurassic Park, 300 and Titanic. They keep it simple, so everyone gets one vote. 2 people vote for Jurassic Park, 2 for 300 and 3 for Titanic, which is what you end up watching. But if the options had been Jurassic Park, Pretty Woman and Titanic the numbers of votes would have been 4, 1 and 2 respectively, and you would have ended up watching Jurassic Park. The solution is to keep it even simpler. You get as many votes as you like. Now you can vote for Jurassic Park or Titanic no matter what the third option is. 4 people vote for Jurassic Park, 3 for Titanic and maybe 2 or 3 also vote for 300 or Pretty Woman. Jurassic Park is what's being watched, unless someone brought Finding Nemo which all 7 people would vote for. If you want to pick one winner or determine an order of goodness from more than two options, some variation of the second system is in my opinion usually better than the first. (This is not true when trying to establish a balance of power, like when voting for seats in a parliament, but that's neither here nor there.)

So, can we generalize this? What kind of systems does option 1 represent, and what is the family of option 2 like? Option 1 represents any system in which you have a set number of votes to distribute. You can give everyone two votes so they can vote for Jurassic Park as well as 300, but you'll still end up watching Titanic if someone brought Blade as a fourth option. The Eurovision Songcontest system is like that, (although a kind of complicated version because there's two levels of voting and a split between a jury and a popular vote and the second level on the televoting side is actually kind of the other type of system but also not and...). When Lordi won in 2006 it was pretty much the only rock act. In 2007 several countries figured out Lordi's win meant that rock could compete, and none of their acts got close. People who like rock got spread out.

The second type of system can be made plenty complicated as well. For instance, you could have presidential elections where everyone can give all candidates a grade out of ten. It's still essentially the same as the basic "vote for as many options as you like" system, but you get ten times the resolution to say how much you like them. It's still really hard to mess up the chances of the main right wing candidate by introducing one or more competitors with similar ideas. Additional candidates will just spawn additional ratings. Also, if these were Stunts tracks rather then presidential candidates all the numbers below a 7 or so would go unused. More resolution also only adds something as long as your signal to noise ratio is good enough for it. I could have told everyone to rate every track out of ten, and you can use decimals. That way you could make it that each track gets a unique grade. I like track X just a little better than track Y, so X gets an 8.4 and Y an 8.3. But do I really like track X exactly 8.4 points out of ten worth? Or am I just throwing precise sounding numbers at the wall while I'm actually thinking "yeah, it was pretty good, but maybe not like super turbo pretty good"?

So, that's how I got to where we started. I prefer an approval or rating system over a ranking system or a system with a stricter number of points to divide among the competitors because the vote is only minimally disturbed by whether there are any similar tracks available. I chose a rating with only three steps because I felt like more of them wouldn't add a very meaningful distinction, for me at least there would just be more tracks where I would go "I gave this 4 stars yesterday, but today I feel more like 4.5".


Finally, there's another thing I did on purpose. I added this:
Quote from: me
Complains about the procedure can be directed towards Overdrijf, who will surely take any suggestions into consideration for next year.

How do I say this without sounding like a dick? If I had wanted this to be more serious, make it a certified community project with some set reward for the winner, I would have started a thread about how we should run a poll like this. I would have done that because changing the rules during a race is often not the best form. As Racoon sang: "they change the rules when it's my turn, so they can laugh and watch me burn". Except I guess it's usually more of an accidental crash and burn, it's not very common for polls or elections to end up a mess because people don't like the accountant that came up with the rules. So it's not a very apt comparison at all now that I think about it. I did not make a thread like that, I skipped that step and just made a poll. That's partially because we could probably have had that thread open for a full year before we started getting somewhere. So that may be a good project someone could start in February, after my poll for this year has turned into a mess of lessons learned. Getting the preparations for 2021 started.

Obviously people can use the points division Cas suggested, and honestly I suspect most people would have ended up very close to it even without the suggestion. I just don't feel like making it an additional demand. I feel the benefits from the rule are probably roughly offset by its drawbacks, see the big tangent. I also feel that while obviously it's not so bad to still change the rules before anyone other than me voted (other than me and dreadnaut now, but that's because I reacted slowly), I'd rather not open this topic to further discussion about which small tweaks may or may not work well. That sounds like a great debate to have for 2021, or even for a second attempt at a list for 2020. If someone wants to feature the best track of 2020 in something or other they obviously have the right to decide the rules they pick the track by or to just handpick their own best track.

So, uhmm, yeah, what I really meant to say is that I need a surprisingly large amount of words to say "I'm lazy, I'm not changing this thing now."

Also I'm pretty sure there is at least a part of this post where I do sound like a dick. I probably am a bit of a dick, but I did not mean to sound like one here.

Note to self: make more posts where you do mean to sound like a dick, that would be fun.


EDIT; also:
Anyway, although I know most tracks, I didn't compete, so I'll refrain from voting myself.
I am not going to tell anyone they should or shouldn't vote, but you're free to do so if you want. I probably phrased it a bit too confusing up there, but anyone can vote, as long as they're not like a bot account spawned by an AI from 4Chan or something. I just had some problem phrasing that in a good way. But I deliberately wrote those lines to open the poll up to people who had been competing over at Race for Kicks this year as well as returning community members who have not been active this year at all. EDIT more: Wait, unless you've been active on the forum only. That's a case I missed. I kind of assumed everyone here would have at least one race to their name. I even left open the loophole of Race for Kicks currently still having a race open people can go join quickly.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 09:41:49 AM by Overdrijf »

Cas

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2020, 12:39:31 AM »
Wow!  I didn't expect such a reaction from several of you guys!  But I realised now why it happened. Nobody really understood what I said the way I was understanding it as wrote it. I'll just explain myself very simply and briefly:

The reason why I made that suggestion has nothing to do with accuracy or precision or scientific method. It has to do with the cultural aspect. Here, when you make a person choose in a subjective matter, especially when you're choosing among works by your folks, you feel compelled to avoid comparison and you tend to say something like "I liked all of them the same, all are wonderful, I wouldn't be able to choose one over another". This reaction is typical and my suggestion was thought as to avoid that, so that it could always feel like if a track ranked in the third group, it wasn't that it was worse, but that one could simply not put more tracks in the other groups. I really sounds strange to explain this. It is something completely intuitive in Latin America... or so I thought.

Anyway, I am not offended in any way by the reaction nor did I expect my suggestion would offend anyone or make them feel like I'm trying to force you to anything. I take this chance to officially state I am unable to make a decision among the tracks because of what I explained. However, I'll re-drive the tracks and put some restrictions on myself so that I am able to post something for the voting.

Thanks to everyone for making an effort in understanding my point, regardless of whether you feel you did or not.
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Cas

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2020, 02:17:45 AM »
Now, here's my analysis after re-racing:

ZCT222 - Defensive Driving - I found the track very interesting because of the many splits and that you had to give it a close look and not just drive and forget. What I did not like much about the race is that it ended up being a slow race with the Lambo and you guys know I love fast races. Still, at the end, some of you managed to make good laps with the PMIN, but I didn't think of that in time

ZCT223 - Sand am Main - This track was designed with lots of scenery close to the track so that it can all be seen as you drive. I really like that. It's something I usually try to do myself. The car that I used for driving it, the Lancia, although relatively slow, is one I like very much because it is easy to drive, I feel it to have a good grip and it isn't really that slow in the end so as a race, it was fun. It includes several pieces of dirt and ice, which I often forget to add.

ZCT224 - Addition - A fast race in which mostly everyone ended up driving with a fast car, but somehow, I chose the Lancia. I don't remember why. Still, I do like the Lancia. The track design goes well with the speed. Not as much scenery, but good circuit design.

ZCT225 - PSX Madness - A very challenging track in which the obstacles and turns make driving skills really matter for the final result. I obtained my best lap with the LM-002, but as was shown, fast cars could be used too in this race, although for this type of challenge, I don't mind a slow car. It's clearly designed to be fun even when driving slow.

ZCT226 - Terra Australis - A very good depiction of Australia with its urban and desert areas well represented, including Ayers Rock. Although there are three cacti in the map (as I understand, they don't grow in Australia :P), they are not seen during the drive. The circuit itself is fun to drive and many car went well on this race.

ZCT227 - Run Through the Jungle (my own track) - I made this track to be raced fast, but included a detour to ensure it would be GARable even with slow cars. There was great diversity of them in the race. I think it was a success.

ZCT228 - Messa - What I like the most about the track is that there are many paths and it's not easy at first sight to tell where you start and which way you have to go when looking at the map, so it demands some study prior to racing. This is a challenge and I like that. There is some lack of scenery and the straights can sometimes be long and empty, but this really depends a lot on the path you choose, so you can pick something more empty for fast cars and something more intricate but shorter for slow cars. I performed poorly on this one, but it was a great race for skilled pipsqueaks.

ZCT229 - b²-4ac (the discriminant) - Being a fan of math, even though I'm not precisely fantastic at it, I can't help to immediately love this track from its name. And it looks most of you loved it too because it had more participation than any other in the season, mostly with the Lancia. Here I can't say there's lack of scenery!  While it seems super abundant looking at the map, while racing, it looks comfortably nice and the circuit itself is fun to race too.

ZCT230 - Rattlesnake - This one is, to my taste, the indisputable winner. The track features a short, but relevant split point, good terrain design, non-stop action to keep you awake, the use of illusion elements that actually work well and that are visible as you pass by, adding extra "custom scenery" to the environment. As a race, it was super diverse, with five different cars, fast and slow.

ZCT231 - Kowloon - Before re-racing this one, I do remember it. I remember that it lead me to look up the walled city of Kowloon and read about it. A track inspired in something that I can learn about is really something I appreciate.  Just as 230, this track has action all the time. It has the special feature of being compatible with Le Stunts!  Like other tracks I mentioned before, you have to take a look at the map before racing or you end up driving forever. This is positive, in my opinion.

ZCT232 - Serial Killer - An ingenious design inspired in serial communication :)  This track has a well balanced length for fast and slow cars. It began as a Porsche race and ended up as... a Porsche Race, but a different Porsche!  Of the circuit, I particularly like the final segment, in which executing the jump and turning after it is not trivial with the Carrera 4. Good scenery use, not too much, but well placed.

ZCT233 - Home Office - The terrain design has the top marks here. Besides, the track contains two split sections that make a true difference. There could be more scenery, but the track elements used are diverse and there's action in it, which compensates this. There are nice opportunities for taking shortcuts despite the water. As a race, the Carrera 4 was almost the only option, which is the car I had used in the previous race. I would've liked to use a faster car for this track.

My point distribution: As I had said, it is impossible for me to classify the tracks without imposing some restrictions on myself. To this effect, I choose to use the third group as the default and only put one track in the first and second groups as my favourites. My liking of the tracks is completely qualitative and subjective and I can't sort them. This said, my favourite one for this season has been Duplode's Rattlesnake and my second favourite has been Alan Rotoi's Kowloon, taking the corresponding points for the top and middle group. The third group would include my own Run through the jungle, but following the rules established by Overdrijf, it's placed outside and I get a point for having posted it.
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Duplode

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2020, 05:17:28 PM »
All right, here are my votes! I will follow Overdrijf and use a 4/4/3 scheme. I do feel had twelve nice tracks this year, across a wide range of styles. That being so, please don't be tempted to change your design approach because of the scores in this thread! Variety is part of what makes a season interesting.

Good / 0p
  • ZCT222 (Defensive Driving): A fine enough Countach romp. In defence of the initial slow multi-way part, I should mention there was at least one useful off-road line in it.
  • ZCT224 (Addition): Clever use of hills in a well-balanced track. Were I to promote one track to the next group, this one would probably be it.
  • ZCT228 (Messa): Leisurely driving on country roads, with enough variety in the corner combinations to keep it interesting.
  • ZCT232 (Serial Killer): Turned out all right as a conventional powergear track.
Great / 1p
  • ZCT223 (Sand am Main): With Indy powergear, an interesting line finding puzzle; with Lancia, one of the best combos of the year around the second loop. This one could easily get an extra point if you asked me in another day.
  • ZCT225 (PSX Madness): Slow and technical without being irritating, with nary a meter of track wasted.
  • ZCT226 (Terra Australis): Lovely scenery, and a fun ride with the F40.
  • ZCT227 (Run Through the Jungle): Long straights put to good use, with the effective Acura bait in the final sector and the seriously challenging GTO GAR race further elevating it.
Awesome / 2p
  • ZCT229 (b²-4ac): Elegant, flowing Lancia track which hosted one of the fiercest races in the recent past. The sector with the loop and the icy river crossings was one of my favourites this year; in particular, it played out brilliantly in GAR.
  • ZCT231 (Kowloon): Fabulous high-ground arena track, full of beautiful combinations. It fit the P962 very well; though I still have to try it with the Countach, I suspect it will turn out just as interesting.
  • ZCT233 (Home Office): Instant classic, very well suited for the season finale. A technically challenging track with good rhythm and suitable for a large variety of cars. The sector including the "corner crossing" between the dual way parts was very cleverly done.
Own / 1p
  • ZCT230 (Rattlesnake): I consider it a successful design, with the difficulty being roughly what I had meant it to be, and with no major oversights.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 05:32:34 PM by Duplode »

Overdrijf

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2021, 04:10:02 PM »
Voting is open until the end of January. Ones it is the first of February 2021 everywhere on Earth new votes will no longer be counted.

O, uhmm, last call for votes this week?

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Re: Voting time! The best track of Zakstunts 2020!
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2021, 11:02:38 PM »
I would give a vote to zct224 and zct226 because they were the funnier tracks. About landscape design I'll give a point to zct226 and another to zct230.