Author Topic: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight  (Read 128 times)

Duplode

  • Breaths Stunts
  • ******
  • Posts: 3963
  • Fear is your only god on the radio
    • View Profile
    • The Southern Cross Stunts Trophy
ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« on: October 18, 2021, 03:41:01 AM »
Z244 has a two-tile switching shortcut, which is illusrated by the attached diagram and Trueno lap. As per tradition (ZCT202, ZCT146, ZCT136, etc.), now it's that time in which we sit down and decide whether it should be forbidden.

My take: while this shortcut isn't as destructive as the ones seen in past cases (it affects less than half of the track, and might not even be advantageous with faster cars), I think it should be forbidden anyway (it is as ugly as any of those two-tile cuts, and ruins a perfectly good section of the track). For a more objective rationale, we might invoke the "it shouldn't be allowed to drive the same section of track in both directions" principle, originally suggested by afullo back in ZCT202.

alanrotoi

  • Lives on Stunts
  • ******
  • Posts: 4286
  • Suck my Indy!
    • View Profile
    • Maite Zaitut, La Vengadora Oscura
Re: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2021, 04:03:01 AM »
I agree it may generate dissapointing to who didn't find it at the end of the race (It killed me in zct23? so I know how frustrating it could be). Maybe it is not very useful this race so it makes the perfect time to talk about. I agree to forbid this, not from zakstunts forbidding rule but from not allowing it when we build the tracks.
Being the first day maybe dreadnaut could fix the track.

dreadnaut

  • Corner Controller
  • ***
  • Posts: 1224
    • View Profile
    • chezDreadnaut
Re: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2021, 07:39:08 AM »
Mmmh, I saw it, but assumed it would not be competitive. Hadn't considered slow cars though :(

With a few replays already out, I would avoid changing the track. No problem with the ad-hoc forbid rule if you see this becoming a problem.

afullo

  • Joe's Friend
  • **
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
    • DoomItalia
Re: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2021, 10:06:15 AM »
As Julian Bashir said in Star Trek DS9: 3x17 Visionary, who am I to disagree with myself?  :P

Ryoma

  • Skid`s Nightmare
  • **
  • Posts: 716
    • View Profile
    • My méga
Re: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2021, 10:33:03 AM »
Whaou how you can see this kind of shortcut ?????
Disappointed having unfairly lost the newbies race zct238.

Daniel3D

  • Master of Opponents
  • ***
  • Posts: 822
    • View Profile
Re: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2021, 12:05:45 PM »
I didn't know this was possible and in my opinion this kind of shortcut should not be allowed.

I mean, even powergear laps follow the general direction of the track. But this goes squarely against it and is in my opinion cheating.
Ever tried, ever failed. Try again, fail better.

Currently running 19 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.
---------
Stunts resources.
https://mega.nz/folder/JM8HQI5a#mH5ZBNwXC0eEBmockWo50A

Daniel3D

  • Master of Opponents
  • ***
  • Posts: 822
    • View Profile
Re: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2021, 12:55:41 PM »
but from not allowing it when we build the tracks.
Ehmm. How?
I didn't know it was possible.
And I don't see how it works.
I wouldn't be able to avoid it.
Ever tried, ever failed. Try again, fail better.

Currently running 19 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.
---------
Stunts resources.
https://mega.nz/folder/JM8HQI5a#mH5ZBNwXC0eEBmockWo50A

dreadnaut

  • Corner Controller
  • ***
  • Posts: 1224
    • View Profile
    • chezDreadnaut
Re: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2021, 06:34:27 PM »
And I don't see how it works.
I wouldn't be able to avoid it.

The wiki article is brief, but to the point: after a road split, as long as you traverse one tile of one of the branches and the tile where they re-join, you will not receive penalty time. This is what let us jump from one branch to the other of a dual-way track, but it also opens the door to less fun tricks such as this one.

It is possible to prevent them when designing the track, usually by making sure they are slower then the clean route. But sometimes they just sneak in.

We usually cover these exceptions with an extra rule: you are not allowed to drive the same tiles in both directions.

Daniel3D

  • Master of Opponents
  • ***
  • Posts: 822
    • View Profile
Re: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2021, 08:03:47 PM »
I'm still not sure if I understand.
Is this bug that what makes a 30 second time possible on default? I've been wondering about that.
Ever tried, ever failed. Try again, fail better.

Currently running 19 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.
---------
Stunts resources.
https://mega.nz/folder/JM8HQI5a#mH5ZBNwXC0eEBmockWo50A

Duplode

  • Breaths Stunts
  • ******
  • Posts: 3963
  • Fear is your only god on the radio
    • View Profile
    • The Southern Cross Stunts Trophy
Re: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2021, 02:48:41 AM »
To be as lenient as we can, the general principle I have in mind is that it is not okay to drive on the same part of the track in the correct direction and in the wrong way while doing a dual-way switch. Dual way cuts with some wrong way driving are sometimes okay (the top Vette replays in ZCT202), and so is driving in both directions without dual-way switching (KyLiE's USL track); both things at the same time, though, tend to ruin tracks.

Whaou how you can see this kind of shortcut ?????

A trained eye, mostly. It sure is befuddling the first few times you see it!

Is this bug that what makes a 30 second time possible on default? I've been wondering about that.

Yup, the thirty-and-a-bit Default lines follow pretty much the same principle: there is a split near the beginning of the track with the corresponding rejoin near the end, so you can skip most of the track by dual-way switching. The one difference is that Indy powergear means sticking to the road through wrong way driving becomes unnecessary.

On track design: through cheap dual-way cuts can sometimes be prevented, I find it hard to blame the designers for this sort of thing, specially considering how some very natural features to want on a track (such as long dual-way sectors, or dual-way sectors with intersections) make cheap switches more likely. It's not nice when designers have to cramp their style; ergo my approval of ad hoc and semi-official rulings in cases like this.

Cas

  • Straight Specialist
  • ***
  • Posts: 1114
  • Think different. That's OK... as long as you think
    • View Profile
    • Dimioca Labs
Re: ZCT244 - Crazy Eight
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2021, 08:37:30 PM »
Maybe some kind of peer-review strategy could help prevent this kind of problem.
Earth is my country. Science is my religion.