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Herr Otto Partz says you're all nothing but pipsqueaks!

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Newbie scoreboard and progression

Started by dreadnaut, September 19, 2021, 10:45:24 AM

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Cas

Well, this is a lot of information!  I have read rather quickly, so I may be missing something, but I'll give my humble opinion.

I think that, from a pipsqueak's perspective, it is wiser to not allow oneself to feel frustrated for not reaching a certain position in the scoreboard. This is a game we play together for fun and while trying to achieve better results is important, it's not like those who haven't managed to get to the first few positions should give up. And I say it as the not-very-good pipsqueak I am. If we don't seem to find a way to get as good a score as we would like, we should not blame the system, but just do our best... every time, whatever that is.

Now, from a tournament administrator's perspective or as somebody who just wants to see the community happy and strong, I understand the new system and I think Dreadnaut's effort is very positive and whatever we can do to make the game more enjoyable and the environment more comfortable for the community members is worth trying. Other interesting experiments in the past have given different results. The change in how the bonuses vary for cars worked very well!  So I hope these changes work well too :)
Earth is my country. Science is my religion.

dreadnaut

#31
Thanks all for the feedback. I've chewed on it for a few days, and now I have a second version for your consideration:


  • Rename "newbies" to "amateurs" more or less everywhere (except the Newbie Guide)
  • Amateur results appear on both the global and the amateur-only scoreboard (as it happens now with the newbie league)
  • Amateur results follow the same visibility rules as normal replays
  • When a pipsqueak signs up, they start as an amateur
  • All existing pipsqueaks who have never reached a podium will start season 2022 as Amateurs
  • We will review the list and might forcefully promote some of these before the season starts
  • It is possible to leave the Amateur league voluntarily, effect immediate
  • Once you leave the amateur group, there is no going back
  • An amateur loses their status when they reach 10 ZakPoints, effective from the next race
  • Amateurs (only) can gain ZakPoints so:
     

         
    • 5 points when they finish a race on the global podium
         
    • 1 points when they finish a race in the global top 6
         
    • 3 points when they end a season in the global top 6
         
    • 4 points when they end a season as the Amateur champion
         
    • 2 points when they end a season in the Amateur top 2nd or 3rd positions
       
  • ZakPoints never decrease
All ZakPoints numbers open for discussion of course. I am worried that they'll be impossible to tweak satifactorily. It'd be great if anyone wanted to build some kind of simulator and run ten thousands seasons to see how things move :D

alanrotoi

Seems a good move. About the balance or point gain adjustment a ten thousands seasons simulator sound effective :)

KyLiE

Quote from: dreadnaut on October 23, 2021, 11:53:13 PM
I have a second version for your consideration

Sounds good to me. :) Will ZakPoints be visible on the website?  My only concern is that they might be confused with regular points.

dreadnaut

Quote from: KyLiE on October 24, 2021, 03:08:11 AM
Sounds good to me. :) Will ZakPoints be visible on the website?  My only concern is that they might be confused with regular points.

They'll probably appear like an XP progress bar than an actual score.

Cas

This all sounds very neat. I like the idea
Earth is my country. Science is my religion.

Overdrijf

Under the Zakpoints system I would have promoted around the end of 2011, my third season, with a total of 16 races participated in. I came second in the newbie league both times I was eligible = 2*2 = 4 points, I got a random second place overall in a kart race (5 points) in 2011 and comparing myself to the newbie league of 2011 there's one person in it that ranks above me on the regular board, so let's call that another 2 points.

That seems like a reasonable amount of time to stay an amateur.

Without the random kart race result it might become a much longer stretch of time for me because I was really inactive between 2011 and 2018, but at that point I start picking up enough 6th places and higher to probably deserve to be promoted anyway. And I definitely should not have been counted as an amateur in 2019.

dreadnaut

Quote from: Overdrijf on October 26, 2021, 06:03:28 PM
Under the Zakpoints system...

Oh, that's an interesting alternative to simulations :) Although it's difficult to account for points from the Amateur league positions.

I would have been promoted at the end of 2014, after 24-25 races. 9 × +1zp from top-6 positions, followed by +5zp for a podium place, 3rd. That looks fair to me.

dreadnaut

We are almost there!

As a start, I have marked all pipsqueaks as Amateurs, except those who have ever been on a podium. The status is visible on the pipsqueak's profile.

Please check your profile ;)  And let me know if you think this initial assignment leaves anyone on the wrong side. Happy to add or remove amateurs.

Daniel3D

Is it still optional to upload a replay to the amateur scoreboard just as GAR? Or automatically like the newbie league was?

In case it is optional I have no objections because everyone can decide themselves of they consider themselves still amateur (except those already excluded, but that feels like a justified decision)
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

dreadnaut

#40
Quote from: Daniel3D on January 13, 2022, 09:43:34 PM
Is it still optional to upload a replay to the amateur scoreboard just as GAR? Or automatically like the newbie league was?

In case it is optional I have no objections because everyone can decide themselves of they consider themselves still amateur (except those already excluded, but that feels like a justified decision)

Nope, those checkboxes are gone now. People can still decide to not be an amateur though: there'll be a button to leave the Amateur group, one way :)

afullo

I guess being amateur does not imply to submit replays which are public anymore...

dreadnaut

Quote from: afullo on January 13, 2022, 11:17:21 PM
I guess being amateur does not imply to submit replays which are public anymore...

At least for 2022, amateur replay will behave like all others, with public / hidden / quiet days. See this post and a few following it.

Daniel3D

I'm fine with it then. Looking forward to the new season.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

afullo

Quote from: dreadnaut on January 13, 2022, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: afullo on January 13, 2022, 11:17:21 PM
I guess being amateur does not imply to submit replays which are public anymore...
At least for 2022, amateur replay will behave like all others, with public / hidden / quiet days. See this post and a few following it.

Ok. So for 2022 no problem being amateur, later we will see...