Well altough 2003 season hasnt finished yet and there were some quiet months, I consider it very succesful. I enjoyed it much more than the 2002 season as a pipsqueak and a manager too.
I want to ask your opinion how should we continue.
1. Assistant Operator
I'd like to have an assistant who can help me maintaingin the site. This year the 2002 TDC winner Akoss Poo helped organizing the secondary competition, but only with designing tracks, nothing else. I'm not sure about having a secondary competition in 2004 (described later), but I'd like to have an assistant (mabye winner of TDC2003?) who can do the following things:
a. managing the secondary competition (if there's any)
b. write analysis, stats, reviews,news, etc.
c. update through phpmyadmin (easy job :)
d. if he knows php he can also write additional stats and tools for the site.
so this is based on further negotioations, if he doesnt want to see the replays, then he wont, only helps in other things.
2. Dual League
I think Dual League was a positive change. It'll stay unless you hate it so much you votre against it. However possibly the relegation/promotion system will change:
a. no separate pro league but a combined and an amateur (newbie). In this case we need a good system to decide who is already a pro. But this way newbies have their own goal.
b. separate leagues like this year but no relegation but only promotion according to strict rules.
c. same system as this year maybe with modified point system of course.
3. Secondary Competition
well this is an intresting topic. The secondary competition was meant to be providing more training for the newbies, but it didnt really turned out this way. Maybe it wasnt a good idea. Lets see some ideas:
a. no secondary competition/track at all
b. separate track for amateur/pro (only if leagues are separated) - sound like a bad idea anyway, maybe you like it.
c. one competition track for everyone, and one secondary for the amateur league only for extra points. Pros can join the track too but they dont earn points, only for fun. Works only if theres a separate league for amateurs.
d. same as above but the separate track is for the pros only.
e. secondary track for points for everyone. Of course only 10-20% wight compared to the main competition.
So this is a big question. Do we need a secondary competition, if we need for who, which rules, which cars, etc.
I'm open for any ideas...
[/b]
Hi Zak,
interesting questions... Well, I never entered the secondary competition and I'm not sure it is needed at all, but as I said I never entered it so I cannot decide. I do not need it.
I like the splitting of your competition. It offers more possibilities for weak pipsqueaks like me or fun pipsqueaks. I think you should keep those, also with the relegation rule (best ones from amateur move into pro and worst pro leave the league and return to amateur). Both leagues should race the same track each month.
What I still do not like, that's team racing. And there especially the big teams with many members. They are too dominant in the game, best pipsqueaks will gather in one team, others remain weak (like big, big MCLaren/Mercedes against small European/Minardi). Anyway, that is just my personal opinion...
I'm looking forward to season 2004!
CU, JTK
i think the permanent competition must change in a way people really know it... you should put it under zct: act choice in the menu...
then i would not be the record man of the default track :)
And by the way, Zak - don't forget to put some retro tracks to the dual contest. :)
You beat my record on Default?
Me?
My vision of 2004 season:
1. Assistant Operator
a) every active pipsqueak can post one line in news section. E.g.,
28/10/2003 Mingva: yeah, try to beat my time. Alain: Oh my, Orion is the best Team! and etc.
b) I could do sometimes race reports if I won't continue IRC.
2. Dual League
No dual league. But...
a) point system 30-25-22-20-18-16-14-12-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1. So, even 18 pipsqueaks would collect points!
b) only 10 or 11 best results counts. Or maybe for season result could be such formula:
season score = best result * 1.0 + 2nd best * 0.9 + 3rd best *0.8 + ... + 10th best *0.1
c) additional ranking: rookie/newbie - all pipsqueaks to whom season 2004 will be the first and in that year will race less than 2/3 (or 9, or whatever) of all races. In that way some newbs could have objectives and etc.
d) pro rankings - the best 10 pipsqueaks are consider as Pro. But this ranking wouldn't based on season result table. It would be like WRL: all points from last two races, plus 2/3 of last 3rd, plus 1/2 of last 4th and plus 1/3 of last 5th. And 10 pipsqueaks with most ranking points are Pro. After next race one pipsqueak can relegate from Pro because of weaker result (or better from amateur). Not racing will add -100 or -50 points. Almost will cause a relegation from Pro.
E.g., Mingva: z35 - 22p.; z36 - 16p.; z37 - 5p.; z38 - 20p.; z39 - 10p. In that case, my rank would be: 10+20+5*2/3+16*1/2+22*1/3=48.67. Let's say, on z40 I'm collecting 8. Then my rank would change to: 8+10+20*2/3+5*1/2+16*1/3=39.17.
3. Secondary Competition
Yes, secondary comp. is OK. But if you want to see many pipsqueaks, it should have value. Extra points for main comp. sounds well. The comp. could be based on retro tracks (maybe slightly modified), sometimes with special rules, or maybe for indy only.
Assistant: not me... I don't have time for it, maybe I can create some stats if you want, I like it.
Primary competition: I still vote on INDY and INDY each month (the big common league), and because of this, there's some need for Secondary Competition, where we can race the other cars.
Point system: I think 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 is the best. No average, no bigger gaps, NO surrendered track, all results must count.
Dual league: I hate it. There's no real value of being pro, since someone can win from amateur, too.
Retro tracks: no need, I don't want to drive again survived sections...
Teams: i agree with someone (I can't remember), I don't like such big teams. 3 or 4 drivers are enough per team.
I hate Mingva's weird opinions, ideas. Zak! Don't overcomplicate the system please once again.
If the secondary competition designer designs AMATEUR tracks, I will be very angry, because I wasn't allowed to do this this year (although the original price was that).
It is Orion's fault that Secondary Competition has no bigger value. Thanks to Alan Rotoi, Bonzai Joe (first to them), CTG, Usrin, Zak McKracken, this competition has come value (and thanks to anybody else who drove at least 1-2 tracks at least 90 percent hard).
hi!
mingva, you must go on with irc next year... you are very good there, because with humility, you raised this competition to a classic, where it should have disappeared if you did not take it on... and i think your administration is a part of its success...
Akoss, i think you imply orion where i was the only pipsqueak that did clearly not chose to take part to an irrelevant competition with no competition for points at all... Orion team took part several times and encouraged it... My personal opinion is that ACT is not interesting.
So... let IRC on, let ACT on with points...
and let us play stunts!
What do you mean you don't get points in the Secondary Competition? Sure you do... just like in any other competition.
My two cents:
Keep a simple point-system please
Keep the secondary competition please, and lots of INDY there please :D
Good idea to get rid of the separated pro-league and only have a separated amateur league.
My opinion:
1)Reduce teams to 2 pipsqueaks per team!If a group of ppl still wants to stay together they can do OPPnear team A) and B) with independent points!
2)4 Retro tracks per 12 tracks!
3)BJ 'Good idea to get rid of the separated pro-league and only have a separated amateur league.' -agreed
4)Revamp the leading time system or get rid of it if no better option is available.
I remember I was punished for suggesting this 1,5 years ago but I will do it again *g*.
-Checkpoint at the middle of the month granting 3,2,1 bonus points.That way everyone will get an idea what to aim at at the end of the month and we will have some times on the scoreboards w/o having to fight second by second every day which I simply don't have the time for usually!
The past proved its good to keep teams up to six members because the emulation within the team make times be better, and lots of selfish pipsqueaks from other teams want to be better than the big teams on their own talent.
Lets play on new tracks, retro tracks are worth a lap/year, not more... One track/year means 10% of the championship is played in the past?
the leading time is pure adrenaline...
still waiting for a brilliant idea... :)
giving a newbie ten points in the final rankings if he competes three months = make them stay
nota: i censored my post cleaning it from all the trash... i wish i could be so calm all the time
nota: when i talk about a selfish pipsqueak, i did not accuse or want to hurt no one... except bonzai joe of course ;)
I think the leading time system as it is now is what makes the competition interesting and exciting at other times than at 21.00 on the deadline date.
I suggest team member limit be at 4, as 2 is no fun and 5-6 may make the team too dominant. I don't think this will be such a big problem for Orion, as Argammon is going to leave the team (now don't tell me you're not :D), and Fernando Brito seems to be dead.
Quote from: "BonzaiJoe"...to get rid of the separated pro-league and only have a separated amateur league.
How it would be? Can you explain me?
No more leading time bonus :!:
i regret... leading time bonus was a funny story that ended badly... badly...
i dont like it very much now...
Argammon leaves Orion? Am I last to know it? //www.shutup.com BJ
I'm glad I'm not racing seriously anymore, it's going to be one long streak of boredom without leading time bonus.
I just don't see the point of having a separate pro league, as it means newbies feel they are not battling for the win, not in touch with the top. Separate amateur league gives weaker drivers a chance to feel the great taste of victory even though they are not the best. It all helps to make them stay and drive more.
It's like in chess there is a women's championship but no men's championship. Women can participate in that too, and Judit Polgar did.
I agree, team members max. 4
Leading time bonus must stay, reduce the points to 1, 0.5
Get rid of the separated league, it has no meaning in this form.
rereading BJ:
"I don't think this will be such a big problem for Orion, as Argammon is going to leave the team (now don't tell me you're not )"
I just realize that i breathe a cleaner air now...
I did not have any agreements with Bonzai,zak,satan or cork at the time bonzai did post that.
And let me remark that Alain's comments are like from a premature 12year old.And his behaviour in chat is even worse.
For once it's close to impossible to have any half serious discussion with him.(I've tried that about 1 year) and then it's usually that he insults people and if they just answer his insults he has nothing better to come up with than 'INSULTS,3rd insult!BE quiet'
Poor soul.
It calls...
...the art of communication :lol:
you just dont know how to reply sand yard loser :)
If I'd had a secret agreement with Argammon before the whole Z31 scandal, I don't think I would have posted it in the forum...
you must start a politic career!!
"i agree, i am responsible, but not guilty!"
entire planet earth will soon know the truth. the sooner the better. IMO, the argammedon is coming. Do you pay argammon? he sends more rpls than ever!!! its incredible! i cant believe that he deploys such energy in beating his not so long time away team.
Gruesome person. dire straits come for corks crew ;)
next year, BJ retires, satanziege joins orion, zak starts keeping a neutral position in the competition (playing but retiring from any team because its unfair) and argammon goes on with loneliness.
'next year, BJ retires, satanziege joins orion, zak starts keeping a neutral position in the competition (playing but retiring from any team because its unfair) and argammon goes on with loneliness.'
Dreams again :)
On your level:
'next year,Mingva retires, Krys toff joins corks crew, Leo starts keeping a neutral position in the competition (playing but retiring from Orion because Alain mentioned him in the worst driver poll) and alain goes on with loneliness'
;)
I feel mingva will probably retire, leo will probably remain one of the worst pipsqueaks ever (but he knows joy, you still dont) Krys Toff is not going to corks crew, because that is the team where you are, and where ever I go, I am readying a replay with your eight letters name on each track argammon... I AM GOING TO BEAT YOU RACES AFTER RACES, because i love stunts and i love fighting my opponents.
I beat alanrotoi on IRC, you never did. You talked a lot, but you werent able.
argammon argues more.
You didn't get that was sarcasm about your post? ;)
And let's face it:
Countach: 1:0 Argammon
Lancia: 2:0 Argammon
Jaguar: 2:1 Alain scores 1
Acura: 3:1 Argammon
Audi: 4:1 Argammon
And if we count the 962 track where I just send a 5 min replay at the beginning of the month. (We will as I'm fair and gentle like always):
4:2
Corvette:draw 5:3
And the real winner of GTO: 6:3 for Argammon.
And if we add all live races together and add them as only 1-written- one point it's 7:3 Argammon.
Do you think you got a point now?And I bet I was having a lot more fun during that time than you with your 'fanacism'.
You are really making my attitude towards you change from thinking off you as just annoying and insane towards pitying you.
Yes somehow I really do pity you :)
But don't worry: Every bad time is followed by a good time.
Happy Greetings
-Argy
I can see u match up adequate opponents
LM002 0-1
Countach 0-2
Lancia 1-2
Jaguar 2-2
Acura 2-3
Audi 2-4
P962 3-4
Corvette 3-5
GTO 3-6
Counting the live races one: 3-7
Counting Kalpen A: 4-7
Bonzai Joe vs. Neil McRae
Countach: 1-0
Indy: 2-0
Lancia: 3-0
Jaguar: 4-0
ACURA: 5-0
Audi: 6-0
LM002: 7-0
P962: 8-0
Melange: 9-0
Corvette: 10-0
Carrera: 11-0
GTO: 12-0
Wow I'm good!
Putting Leo Ramone in any of positions, the equation is the same...
Quote from: "BonzaiJoe"Bonzai Joe vs. Neil McRae
Countach: 1-0
Indy: 2-0
Lancia: 3-0
Jaguar: 4-0
ACURA: 5-0
Audi: 6-0
LM002: 7-0
P962: 8-0
Melange: 9-0
Corvette: 10-0
Carrera: 11-0
GTO: 12-0
Wow I'm good!
you ought to race for the victory and not against other pipsqueaks. your stupidity, directed against a weak and a newbie pipsqueak, will make him quit our competition world, instead of making him stay...
You are too much toxic. I will fight you as the archi evil stunts pipsqueak, JUST TO PREVENT YOU FROM GUTTING THE NEW pipsqueaks...
my version of the stats:
My objective last year was nothing, only sending replays, and as a good surprise i had podiums on podiums. This year I decided will win zakstunts.
So here are this year zakstunts races:
Alain won 5, argammon won 2, and we share one victory because by this time on z29 you tried until the last day, ... happy enough about my collective mind and team work... my replay just to beat my time instead of inventing a new shortcut :) (again for not sending your final replay to the team you will crash and burn in the stunts Hell, and damn it will hurt)
Alain was better 8 times and argammon 'by accident' only 3
Akoss poo won 2, he was better than me only 3 times, and thats why his weak and alcoholic mind tells him to spread the rumour that orion is a cheater team.
What could you do against Bonzai Joe at the beginning of the championship, argammon??? nothing! i came back, dressed off my shirt and started to play like a winner. THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE JEALOUSING.
on z32 podium i will be smashing the victory champaign bottle on your head.
*yawn* :roll:
I wrote a response first but I guess it does not help anyone and especially not Alain if I do respond to his post.I guess it's pretty obvious his post is not really constructive and a bit far from the truth and i will leave it at that.
i got you!
on z29 i sent to you my rpl and you did the same thing that me... i dont understand why you speak about being unable to reach your time? i dont... poor boy!
to "And if I couldn't do anything ALAIN could do less! " i must reply: you are not aware about those problems that made me quit IRC competitions in january and zak in march. That means you didnt care about me those times :) because you lived me as a threat
"40 hour driving frency per month" are the words of a stunts newbie. Any committed pipsqueak knows that 40 is irrelevant for a class driver. a class driver drives no more than two hours on a track to give a competitive rpl. For a winning replay, i have max five hours of driving, two in the beginning of the month, three in the end... Advice to new pipsqueaks: try to learn how to spend the less time possible playing stunts by pressing the juice of every minute of playing! people like argammon dont look at their race in f4 view :) The pleasure you'll get driving super replays in few times will be the award for your pleasure in driving :) chase the anger from your vertuous competitor circle.
40 hours per month! live racing is simply full of cheaters. When i play in live racing i dont use the RH :) btw i didnt play on IRC yet, but i know that tsino 1.16 is available for me in one hour :) are you simply able to race my actual time 1.18 in one hour? I did it in one hour :) mister i-dont-tell-that-i-race-and-i-dont-share-my-rpls-to-my-own-team-but-every-day-i-try-to-beat-them-silently.
bold caracters now
THIS GUY HIDE HIS TIMES TO HIS OWN TEAM MATES! HE IS READY TO EVERYTHING JUST TO HANDLE HIS WIN/LOSS RATING WITH INTELLIGENCE.
" dozens of hours of your time to write meaningless attacks on the forum and the chat against me. " you are taking no time for me... i dont see what a better thing i can do for the community than fighting toxicism. What makes my day is that when you will be tired, you will have no more energy to attack the other pipsqueaks :) I just want no one else to be the target of your maniacry
"Anyone who has at least 1 % insight of the situation knows you are being a complete jerk here.And not only since our argument but since you joined the stunts community."
i took part in things you will never imagine, mercenary :) and others judgement doesnt count for me. if it does for you, you just feeling weaker and weaker arguing with me, because its void on your side, and my strong and true mind is achieving an 'over the top' with "souplesse" on your loose arm.
I am stronger than the average. FACE IT NOW.
Don't kill eachother, guys. Bonzai Joe is the best pipsqueak, Alan Rotoi is the most talented, Alain is the most successful now and Argy is the fastest. That's all! :D
The point is not who is the best or who is the most succesfull but that Alain decided to act like a complete Jerk after he received a victory gift from a fellow teammate.
objection!
I dont believe that you ever wanted me to win z31...
When i knew you were hiding your time to us, then I hided my time to you.
Long enough before the closure, you drove thanks to my replay 1.14 then 1.06 + 3 seconds penalty
You had time to share it with us.
You sent it to zak on the last minute, you did not send it to your team
then, as a punishment, I made you believe i HAD ONLY 1.18.00...
When I announced to you I had played 1.10 just on the deadline, :) :) :) I knew the best thing you had to do was to quit us. And you did within a few hours.
Your mindless behaviour costed you:
1. to leave the best team on earth
2. to lose all your team points 2003, its like you drove for cork all year, giving freely your points to orion team...
3. ruin an already weak reputation (leaving euroteam master stunts with no farewell)
4. hours of forum fighting
5. four blood thirsty new opponents
6. what you wanted more: victories, victories, victories and victories...
Your mindless behaviour costed us:
1. a better orion performance like in z29, mingva, krys and me playing on your steps.
do you plead guilty? or do you plead guilty?
Sorry, Argammon, but we waited the "gift" for all team: your super replay from which we could learn somewhat. And your unprofessional behavior not to show your rpl to team was met with protests.
Alain: the best thing you could do for the forum and the Stunts community is to log off and drive instead.
Let's better talk about...
...ZakStunts 2004 :!:
No offense... But why are your pants brown while saying that Mingi?
*Gasp*, half of the posts here are not about the main subject of the post.
My opinion : Zakstunts is for all cars, that's what made it original at its beginning, when all comps where indy only.
I think it should stay this way. Zakstunts winner is best Stunts/tricks/shortcuts pipsqueak, whatever the car. Zakstunts winner is then considered as "the most polyvalent pipsqueak".
B-tracks, why not keep them but only for indy, with a "best 6th gear pipsqueak" award at the end of the year ?
2 leagues, mmm, i like the suggestion of one main league and also one amateur league inside it for giving goals for newcomers. But I dunno how to manage relegations...
Point system : why not use the actual overall point system for the "main overall league", and keep the 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 system only for B comp.
Leading time is motivation for many pipsqueaks, I don't care about it but let's keep it because many pipsqueaks like it.
Number of pipsqueaks per team : 3 or 4. More is too much I think.
Help to Zak : sorry, I can't. I miss time to make the IRC analysis already...
Retro tracks : NO. Let's look to the future. We need new tracks.
Quote from: "zaqrack"1. Assistant Operator
[...]
a. managing the secondary competition (if there's any)
b. write analysis, stats, reviews,news, etc.
c. update through phpmyadmin (easy job :)
d. if he knows php he can also write additional stats and tools for the site.
I don't know how much time will be left next year, but I'm not a newbie at PHP, so if there's time I'll sureley be able to help programming and possibly also to do some administration. ButI can't say anything for sure about next year already :)
Quote from: "zaqrack"2. Dual League
a. no separate pro league but a combined and an amateur (newbie). In this case we need a good system to decide who is already a pro. But this way newbies have their own goal.
b. separate leagues like this year but no relegation but only promotion according to strict rules.
c. same system as this year maybe with modified point system of course.
I personaly rather wanted to be 10th in Pro than 1st or 2nd in amateur. AFAIK all regular drivers are pro anyway. If there's a dual league what about a newbie <-> old school league? I think that all regular pipsqueaks should be in the "pro" league, the system is generally quite nice, but i think there are too few regular pipsqueaks for this effort to make sense. And the relegation/promotion causes some risks, cause points may vary if a newbie suddenly becomes pro in mid season, or a good pipsqueak is regular switching. i think this is the only major drawback in the system, because it makes the championship less controllable.
Just now what about this: You simply erase relegation: whoever is in top10 once is pro for the season and noone is invited in the first race? Then there could be no mistakes about current points in pro champinship.
Quote from: "zaqrack"3. Secondary Competition
a. no secondary competition/track at all
b. separate track for amateur/pro (only if leagues are separated) - sound like a bad idea anyway, maybe you like it.
c. one competition track for everyone, and one secondary for the amateur league only for extra points. Pros can join the track too but they dont earn points, only for fun. Works only if theres a separate league for amateurs.
d. same as above but the separate track is for the pros only.
e. secondary track for points for everyone. Of course only 10-20% wight compared to the main competition.[/b]
i think if it's not too much work, just leave it as it is :) It's nice to drive the tracks if there's time, but if i had to drive them to get a good rating in primary it would be frustrating.
i think c would be nice, together with "pro once - pro ever" (see above).
so long,
satanziege