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Stunts - the Game => Stunts Chat => Topic started by: Daniel3D on April 11, 2022, 01:53:05 PM

Title: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 11, 2022, 01:53:05 PM
This was the name of Stunts before it became stunts..
I thought something like it before because many files have skid in them.

But I found proof this time.
https://archive.org/details/zero-magazine-08/page/n3/mode/2up (https://archive.org/details/zero-magazine-08/page/n3/mode/2up)
https://archive.org/details/zero-magazine-08/page/n9/mode/2up (https://archive.org/details/zero-magazine-08/page/n9/mode/2up)

This was in a magazine in June 1990.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 11, 2022, 02:40:53 PM
The magazine did not cover Sunts when it came out (strange)
but did cover 4D sports driving in feb 1991.
https://archive.org/details/zero-magazine-16/page/n47/mode/2up (https://archive.org/details/zero-magazine-16/page/n47/mode/2up)
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: JTK on April 11, 2022, 03:39:48 PM
Whow - great find! What a name for Stunts! Interesting to see the former graphics!  8)
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Cas on April 11, 2022, 06:24:46 PM
And now we also know why some of the images in the back of the original box of Stunts looked so different from the actual game: they were pictures of this older version
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: alanrotoi on April 11, 2022, 07:08:36 PM
Wow! What a find! Nice articles!
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 11, 2022, 08:46:53 PM
http://amr.abime.net/review_13447 (http://amr.abime.net/review_13447)
an other one.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 11, 2022, 09:18:16 PM
Nice to have a view in development.
I suspect only 2 pages of track pieces, one normal road and ice and dirt pieces,
the other, as you see in the picture.
In this stage, hills didn't exist yet and neither did water.
Also, the looping was only one tile big. (strange shaped piece)
There was only one start finish.
The gas station(?) had a modified barn image,
The 4 tile corners showed as one big tile in the editor.
It seems a lot of elements were not created yet.
Just the parts to test if it worked and to later add diversity,
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: alanrotoi on April 11, 2022, 10:44:48 PM
I see a yellow Corvette... but the other two cars I can't figure out.

About the last article you  showed the car's dashboard is from Test Drive II & the Duel, it's Ferrari Testarossa! (attached picture!) They probably took some data from previous works to build Stunts. Remember Kevin Pickell's words: "I remember us having trouble finding stats for cars and finding good front and side pictures that we could use to make the 3d models. I think that was one of the deciding factors on the final list of cars."

By the way I built "Skidmark" track copying the one from the pictures :D Would it be fun? Challenging? Could we make this track a permanent track maybe? :D
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 12, 2022, 12:14:40 AM
QuoteAbout the last article you  showed the car's dashboard is from Test Drive II & the Duel, it's Ferrari Testarossa!
I thought something was off with the dash. I couldn't place the "miles" in the upper right corner, and it reminded me of a dashboard by Ryoma.
Now I know why.

Thanks for creating the track.

In the articles there is mention of a trillion cars in eight categories, among which maybe a corvette, a super truck, a dune buggy and a pickup truck with large wheels...  8)
Big plans.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Cas on April 12, 2022, 01:42:58 AM
I think I should add this track and Vancouver to the permanent competition in R4K :)
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 13, 2022, 08:43:54 AM
I also noticed that in this version there is still the segments of different colour roads, just like hard driving. (Stunt driver kept it).
The road models are still segmented, they now just have the same material.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 14, 2022, 11:02:14 AM
I have not found any publication (review) of STUNTS in any magazine in the US from around October 1990.
Skid Marks was also published in Europe. There seems to be a limit to Google, Wikipedia and the internet archive.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Duplode on April 15, 2022, 04:13:17 PM
Great find! This would make for a good article in the Wiki. Glad they eventually changed the name, though  :D
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 15, 2022, 06:31:53 PM
Yes, I agree.
I've been trying to find more information about it.
Also about publications of hard driving and stunt driver.
I found that hard driving went from the arcades to home computers in 1990 as well. So the three were fighting for the same audience.

I think that heavily influenced some decisions.
Time pressure. Easier opponents. Track elements. And the name.

Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 03:05:46 AM
2 pages from French press.

Note the track which looks like the track from Hard Driving...
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: alanrotoi on April 17, 2022, 05:28:06 AM
It seems a more advanced stage in the making progress. The default track is similar but different. Beatiful articles.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 17, 2022, 03:26:25 PM
This seems to be an oktober 1990 issue. so perhaps a late publication because the release was in that month (right?).
But that also means that the rebranding was very late in the process.

Indeed the track is very similar to the eventual default track. The bottom half is practically the same.
But in this version the two routes are more balanced. And more like hard driving.

The dashboard is unfamiliar to me. (Does anyone know?) The view from the car shows a tribune. I think that it is a horizon.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
The default track looks like Hard Driving track.

The dashboard is from the (test Drive?) countach but the frame is different.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: alanrotoi on April 17, 2022, 05:12:59 PM
Somebody build "Default0" track please! :D
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 06:06:42 PM
Like that ?
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 17, 2022, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on April 17, 2022, 05:12:59 PM
Somebody build "Default0" track please! :D
Yes, I will do it.
Give me a few hours.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 08:07:58 PM
Countach dashboard from test Drive 1
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 17, 2022, 08:18:05 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on April 17, 2022, 05:12:59 PM
Somebody build "Default0" track please! :D
made default0.
Attached a screenshot of both default tracks and a comparison image.
The default0 really has the same elements in more or less the same order as the hard driving track.



Quote from: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 08:38:04 PM
Great job but the chicane at the begining can be remove. It's not present on the scan I provide.
EDIT:removed slalom blocks on the hill. Updated the track and screenshot.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 08:38:04 PM
Great job but the chicane at the begining can be remove. It's not present on the scan I provide.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 17, 2022, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 08:38:04 PM
Great job but the chicane at the begining can be remove. It's not present on the scan I provide.
Looks good to me..
What chicane?

EDIT:: O, wait. You mean the slalom blocks on top of the hill.
You are right. Ill update..
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 09:19:04 PM
Yes exactly. I did the same job than you. It's a surprise ti see that Hard Driving is very close to Stunts with them default track.

I think to avoid problem with Atari Tangen (maker of Hard Driving l, they changed for the final version.

By the way, it's maybe an explanation why the Atari version was never release....
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 17, 2022, 09:36:59 PM
Hard driving was released for home computers.
For:    Amiga, Amstrad CPC, Atari ST, Commodore 64, DOS, Sega Mega Drive, Lynx, ZX Spectrum
But indeed. When hard driving went from the arcades to homes, they couldn't have the track anymore.
I don't think it would have been a problem if it stayed in the arcades because it was a different kind of driving experience.

But it was good for marketing because Hard Driving fans would recognize the track.
Also, good for play testing if you base a game on something familiar. So it made sense they made and published the track.

So we now have 3 tracks we know they used/made during production.
VANCOUVR.TRK
the one we dubbed Skidmarks.trk
and Default0.trk
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 09:42:26 PM
I'd got hard Driving on lynx.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: alanrotoi on April 17, 2022, 09:45:45 PM
Quote from: Daniel3D on April 17, 2022, 08:18:05 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on April 17, 2022, 05:12:59 PM
Somebody build "Default0" track please! :D
made default0.
Attached a screenshot of both default tracks and a comparison image.

Thank you! Downloaded :D

Quote from: Daniel3D on April 17, 2022, 08:18:05 PM
The default0 really has the same elements in more or less the same order as the hard driving track.

Really? That's a great finding! What do you think? Was it by chance or not?
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 17, 2022, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on April 17, 2022, 09:45:45 PM
Really? That's a great finding! What do you think? Was it by chance or not?
Definitely not by chance.
And Ryoma found it.
Quote from: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 03:05:46 AM
Note the track which looks like the track from Hard Driving...

But to analyze it a bit.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Ryoma on April 17, 2022, 10:01:15 PM
Yes it's a copy. The farm at the begining at the same position. With the lynx, if you were too close, you can hear the cow lol.

Now we know why the Atari ST did not have Stunts.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: alanrotoi on April 17, 2022, 10:16:35 PM
Somebody must noted this and they changed the track? What other explanation? :o It is a fix no doubt. There aren't changes in most of the track and also is the same landscape.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 17, 2022, 10:59:54 PM
I think they had to when the arcade hard driving was ported to home computers in 1990.
Also in the new default track a few elements were added that were not seen before.
Lap time of default0 is about the same as an hard driving lap by the way..
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Overdrijf on April 18, 2022, 06:24:30 PM
Quote from: Cas on April 11, 2022, 06:24:46 PM
And now we also know why some of the images in the back of the original box of Stunts looked so different from the actual game: they were pictures of this older version

Back when the time needed to develop a game was about as long as the time needed to write the disks, set up the print run for the box art and the shipments to stores.

(That's the main reason the infamous ET game (older than Stunts, yes I know) was a little underwhelming: there were like 5 months until Christmas, and they needed the last four for printing and delivering the cartridges.)
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Ryoma on April 18, 2022, 07:13:15 PM
Quote from: Daniel3D on April 17, 2022, 10:59:54 PM
I think they had to when the arcade hard driving was ported to home computers in 1990.

Good point for you

Quote from: Overdrijf on April 18, 2022, 06:24:30 PM

Back when the time needed to develop a game was about as long as the time needed to write the disks, set up the print run for the box art and the shipments to stores.

(That's the main reason the infamous ET game (older than Stunts, yes I know) was a little underwhelming: there were like 5 months until Christmas, and they needed the last four for printing and delivering the cartridges.)

Agree too.

Attached ? Is it a F40 or KITT in Super Pursuit Mode ?
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: Daniel3D on April 18, 2022, 07:32:41 PM
Looks like a F40. But it is also (again) pretty much a car from hard driving.
The white style jump is also (again) similar to hard driving.
Title: Re: Skid Marks (working title of STUNTS)
Post by: CYBERYOGI -CO-Windler on July 29, 2023, 07:34:53 AM
Quote from: Daniel3D on April 15, 2022, 06:31:53 PMYes, I agree.
I've been trying to find more information about it.
Also about publications of hard driving and stunt driver.
I research about early driving simulators and wrote much about Hard Drivin ad Race Drivin:
https://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=4156.0
https://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=4155.0