My favorite is still ZCT 14. Introduction of Alan Rotoi with that great jump at the end... plus many-many good tight matches, like ZCT 34, ZCT 36, ZCT 41, ZCT 59 or ZCT 60. Unfortunately I missed some really good fights in the summers.
And maybe Debrecen, Eger, Kaposv?r, P?cs and C?rdoba from UnskilledStunts.
The legendary races were in 2002, when this generation appeared. ZCT 12, 13, 14, 15, 17... and of course the mighty and extra legendary ZCT 16, the best race ever.
ZCT16 was the worst race ever :evil:
The best, legendary races:
ZCT11! (big scandal, tight race, close times, lots of strong pipsqueaks, a legendary three-way track and a unique trick from D@rio)
ZCT14 (I don't know why, but this track is some kind of Zakstunts milestone/classic)
ZCT22 (the tightest top finish in Stunts history)
ZCT35 (hardest one on one battle)
ZCT46 (a nice Indy race that must not be forgotten)
ZCT60 (exciting race, many high-class replays)
I think if you would ask gutix or ayrton they would list different races :D
Quote from: "Argammon"I think if you would ask gutix or ayrton they would list different races :D
Because they missed the Golden Era of Stunts racing. :P They were taught to drive, to do tricks... our generation invented them. :)
Na...
I think the main reason is that people tend to overestimate races which happened in times they were among the top pipsqueaks. ->Golden Times
Now since those times are long gone and a lot of pipsqueaks can't compete against Ayrton etc anymore they look back and remember how everything was so much better back then... beautifull replays tricks etc.
On one hand, Argammon is right. We are on a superb level compared to 2002 - but with a lot more RH and fanatism. Just take a look at Ayrton's Z61 replay. Imagine the time he spent with doing several magic carpets in a row.
On the other hand, Akoss Poo is right too. 2002 and 2003 were the years of trick inventions. It was nice to see new solutions - and we know most of them now. It's hard to find new things. C?rdoba bring something really new but not that attractive - possible shortcut for connecting multiply ways.
Quote from: "Argammon"Now since those times are long gone and a lot of pipsqueaks can't compete against Ayrton etc anymore they look back and remember how everything was so much better back then... beautifull replays tricks etc.
Another disagreement: I was a crappy pipsqueak in the so called Golden Era but I liked it better then the later seasons, even better than the months with my victories. We did something new in that era and we lived a real community life. Now it's just about RH hours.
Quote from: "Argammon"Now since those times are long gone and a lot of pipsqueaks can't compete against Ayrton etc anymore they look back and remember how everything was so much better back then... beautifull replays tricks etc.
This topic is not about beautiful replays, it's about legendary races. (If you want to talk about beautiful replays, I guess there's a topic for it.) It's not a legendary race if only 1-2 nations take part and drivers doesn't really know each other, they are silent in forum and chatroom is dead. It's a grey and boring race of time millionaire South Americans. And now it infected UnskilledStunts, too.
Sorry if I was a bit hard. But legendary races will never come back.
Quote from: "Akoss Poo"It's a grey and boring race of time millionaire South Americans. And now it infected UnskilledStunts, too.
"WE" didn't "infect" anything. You're making a big deal out of it just because Europeans don't win as easily as they used to do in the "Golden Era". If you invented those tricks, you should do them better than anyone who wasn't racing in that time, right? Or at least as good as them. Besides not every South American is silent in the Forum (Renato, Vamologo, Me). And those who don't join the forum can't speak English so they think it's useless.
South Americans are welcome in USC.
Quote from: "Chulk"Quote from: "Akoss Poo"It's a grey and boring race of time millionaire South Americans. And now it infected UnskilledStunts, too.
"WE" didn't "infect" anything. You're making a big deal out of it just because Europeans don't win as easily as they used to do in the "Golden Era". If you invented those tricks, you should do them better than anyone who wasn't racing in that time, right? Or at least as good as them. Besides not every South American is silent in the Forum (Renato, Vamologo, Me). And those who don't join the forum can't speak English so they think it's useless.
Well... I think it's quite true what Akoss says, except for the important fact that it's not a particularly south-american thing. Alain and CTG race more like this than any other pipsqueaks, and of the South Americans, it's only Gutix, Renato and Ayrton.
For the drivers who don't speak english, (which is only Ayrton; Gutix, Paleke and Alan Rotoi (currently) (and Jules?) speak english perfectly well but are silent all the same) the spanish/portuguese forum was created. Still no activity.
Stunts was always a bit like this, I think, but lately it has become much much worse, and that's why we look back on "the golden era" with longing. I think the main difference between those times and these days is that you didn't have to spend days maxing out a replay to be in the top of the scoreboard.
But I guess races like 59 and 60 were really good despite this.
Quote from: "BonzaiJoe"Alain and CTG race more like this than any other pipsqueaks
False... I don't race as much as Renato or Chulk. I spent about 2-2.5 hours on the current GTO track.
Quote from: "BonzaiJoe"Stunts was always a bit like this, I think, but lately it has become much much worse, and that's why we look back on "the golden era" with longing. I think the main difference between those times and these days is that you didn't have to spend days maxing out a replay to be in the top of the scoreboard.
For me, main difference is that during my Orion period (mid-2002 to end 2003), I was only racing Stunts competitions. I probably raced more per month on each track, but not so much more. But I had plenty of time to go to chatroom when I was not racing Stunts/managing Stunts competition.
Since 2004 I race more competitions on different games. And even if I keep a certain amount of stunts racing time (something around 3 hours per month for all the competitions, not per competition like some other pipsqueaks), I spend the rest of my web free time on other racing games (TrackMania mainly for online racing, and other PC or console games for offline competitions like Stunts competitions). I also take part in the management of a french website based on offline racing competitions.
That's why I'm not so present in chatroom.
But to be honest, I really miss all the Stunts live races managed in chatroom we did... :roll:
Quote from: "CTG"Quote from: "BonzaiJoe"Alain and CTG race more like this than any other pipsqueaks
False... I don't race as much as Renato or Chulk. I spent about 2-2.5 hours on the current GTO track.
Gee, if you spent all your noRH hours on real racing instead then, Ayrton would be your dog.
Rotoi is my dog. :-D
Quote from: "CTG"Quote from: "BonzaiJoe"Alain and CTG race more like this than any other pipsqueaks
False... I don't race as much as Renato or Chulk. I spent about 2-2.5 hours on the current GTO track.
What makes you so sure about the amount of hours I spend in Stunts? I have a life. If you really need to know to stop saying that kind of shit, I play about 40-50 minutes per week. The rest of my free time I see my girlfriend.
Chulk, please... Don't be mad. You are usually of a kind nature, an open and thoughtful kind of person here. Don't become bitter like some other pipsqueaks have before because of CTG.
It wasn't a charge - just Renato said you play a lot.
CTG, this avatar suits you :-D
Yes I really like beer. :D:D:D
Quote from: "CTG"Yes I really like beer. :D:D:D
Me too. :)
Back to the topic: the question was which races did you like or what. No more arguements about "Golden Era", infected contests and personal bullshit please. I can't see any stories about why you like the certain races but the charging mood is visible. You infected, you complain, you cry because you can't beat XY... It's so childish.
I used to watch old replays and archive results. As an outsider I say ZCT 11, 14, 15, 22, 46, 48, 59 and 60 were the best in Zak's; Arrabona, Kaposv?r, P?cs and C?rdoba in Unskilled. I'll check the Kalpens too if I have some freetime. :)
would you like a replay-viewing (like in a cinema, the best replays from changing viewpoints :)) hour on the meeting? :)
Sounds good but maybe a bit boring. :D I suggest to make a video file with magic laps, analysis/stories in words.
Stunts documentary film. :)
I think it sounds great, but it sounds like it would be a bit too hard to make, for just one hour of watching.
Not that hard if you use video capture on DOS-Box. :)
Quote from: "Akoss Poo"Quote from: "Argammon"I think if you would ask gutix or ayrton they would list different races :D
Because they missed the Golden Era of Stunts racing. :P They were taught to drive, to do tricks... our generation invented them. :)
Amen!
okay, I have two questions about legendary races and... legendary pipsqueaks, of which the more important to me is the last one:
hey, alanrotoi, did your z16 lap was ten seconds faster than mine because you hide your time or because I drove it ten seconds slower than yours? I developed a complex since then: of course, buoyed by the effect of this setback and some others, it made me become the first french stunts champion next year, but I could never be a champion again because of an army of latinoes... the history would have been simpler if you didnt send this replay: I would have been winning z16, z17, z18, z19, z20 and until probably z70... in a row. I would be the master of the universe by... 2007. Because of a stupid acura trick called the "magic carpet". Before z16 everybody replay handled, even nailwood told it, but z16 marked the end of the civilization of the normal replay handling pipsqueaks, and marked the beginning of the civilization of the bug chasers.
Who will be the only pipsqueak able to win two zakstunts championships in his life? Active candidates are ayrton, bonzai joe, gutix, and me. possible candidates are ayrton and me. probable candidate is renato.
(http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Track/7927/93-fw15.jpg)
hell the skid am I old enough to remember the williams renault active suspension controversy??
Quote from: al il professore on October 27, 2006, 01:01:42 AMokay, I have two questions about legendary races and... legendary pipsqueaks, of which the more important to me is the last one:
hey, alanrotoi, did your z16 lap was ten seconds faster than mine because you hide your time or because I drove it ten seconds slower than yours?
He's talking about ZCT16: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwqEimcPWMM
There is a funny anecdote about it. We usually met in the chatroom Akoss, CTG, Alain, Mingva, Zak Bonzai Joe, me, etc. I found the magic carpet trick for this track about a week before the end of the race and I suspected everybody was hidding a 10 seconds faster replay. So I met Alain (and I guess it was there also Mingva, his teammate, too) few days closer to the end. We were talking about the race and he asked me how this race would finish. It was a weird month because we were a lot of new pipsqueaks, Roy was the undisputed champion but he suddenly was away and only sent a weak lap, so it was that strange feeling in the air. I said I'm pretty sure everybody is hidding an unusual amount of seconds.
Quote from: al il professore on October 27, 2006, 01:01:42 AMI developed a complex since then: of course, buoyed by the effect of this setback and some others, it made me become the first french stunts champion next year, but I could never be a champion again because of an army of latinoes... the history would have been simpler if you didnt send this replay: I would have been winning z16, z17, z18, z19, z20 and until probably z70... in a row. I would be the master of the universe by... 2007. Because of a stupid acura trick called the "magic carpet".
Before z16 everybody replay handled, even nailwood told it, but z16 marked the end of the civilization of the normal replay handling pipsqueaks, and marked the beginning of the civilization of the bug chasers.
He's right with his own particular way of speaking. Maybe zct16 was the mark of the end of the era but I think the change started before. Roy Wiegerinck did several "high level" tricks that year showing the way of how will be the next step in the community. Until zct16 he won 11 of 14 races he took part in ZakStunts. You can see an evolution in his driving style and that evolution sooner or later spread in us.
I felt something similar back then. I was very insecure when I found JTK site and competition in 2003 and through that also zakstunts(although I didn't realize that until recently when I saw old site pictures).
I raced on old tracks back then and tried to get better. I wasn't good enough to join in my opinion but I felt i could get there.
When I came back in 2008/2009 (almost) ready to join I was confronted with beyond human driving styles and.. That was it.
I didn't play stunts for years afterwards. I had it installed and played a bit every now and then but I didn't really start again until covid came..
Most of the trouble is caused more my own insecurity than anything else.
But i guess it is also the reason why I started my own competition.
Quote from: Daniel3D on November 04, 2022, 04:16:58 PMWhen I came back in 2008/2009 (almost) ready to join I was confronted with beyond human driving styles and.. That was it.
Your comeback couldn't be in a "worse" time. The "Ayrton Era" is something else in the community history... and followed by Gutix and Renato Biker... that's the time of the Gods on Earth. We crashed against a wall... Duplode, Akoss Poo, Bonzai Joe, CTG, Chulk , Mark L. Rivers, me... just fought for the 2nd place the whole 2008 season!
It would be cool to frame the history in stages like this or Roy's Era or Bonzai Joe vs Alan Rotoi era... if you read the messages from those times in the forum you can get an idea about what was going on in every part ;)
Quote from: Daniel3D on November 04, 2022, 04:16:58 PMI found JTK site and competition in 2003
...
When I came back in 2008/2009
Wait, you've been (sort of) around here for that long? Nice.
Crap, now I'm trapped into replying to a thread from 2006 about ZCT16. Quick, change the topic...
As far as legendary tracks and races from my own time here go, I think back fondly of Cas' ZCT214 (https://zak.stunts.hu/tracks/ZCT214). I had a little side fun that month arguing about game versions and shortcut rules in the chat (https://zak.stunts.hu/index.php?page=newsarc&year=2019&month=5), which can really help liven up the race as long as everyone is cool about it. But the real meat of the race was that I worked hard to do well on that track, racing throughout the month, packing advice to newbies in more cryptic wording so they wouldn't quite overtake me. I even think I hid my final replay from Duplode, no I think I thought about it, then shared anyway but still kind of stating that I would really like to win this one, only to be outdone by Finrok's even better powergear line. I won my first Zakstunts race the month after that (https://zak.stunts.hu/tracks/ZCT215) of all races because I wasn't as interested in a full ice track, I only wanted to nail the outside loopcut into invisibridge I had spotted, and it turned out that was enough for the victory, which it wouldn't have been had I shared it earlier.
Another one I remember fondly is my 2018 comeback track, Cas' (huh, I may have a favorite track designer*) ZCT 206 (https://zak.stunts.hu/tracks/ZCT206). In don't remember the racing itself as vividly, but the track design is super cool, a rollercoaster track with the central crossing requiring speeeeeeeeed. So yeah, maybe it did turn out to be a powergear track, like many a fast track does, but that track may actually have been an instrumental part of making my 2018 comeback stick (so far), where my 2012 dip back into stunts had lasted only three races.
So yeah, those would be some of my picks for legendary Zakstunts races.
*=Actually, this years' (https://zak.stunts.hu/tracks/ZCT251) Cas contribution was also pretty amazing...
Quote from: Overdrijf on November 06, 2022, 01:36:25 PMQuote from: Daniel3D on November 04, 2022, 04:16:58 PMI found JTK site and competition in 2003
...
When I came back in 2008/2009
Wait, you've been (sort of) around here for that long? Nice.
Actually, i knew JTK's site longer but didn't have regular internet access. But when I started to live on my own in 2002 I downloaded stunts again from kalpen.de i had that remembered as failsafe should i loose my stunts copy.
I later found the competition, at least i remember nothing before the 2003 opening track that is still a favorite.
I love to read these personal experiences! We should share more.
Speaking about time epocs, what happened in the community and in ZakStunts in particular between 2017 and 2020. Is that a different period? How would you define it?
My impression about Stunts Eras between ~1999 and ~2010.
What would be the best way to separate Stunts history in eras from Stunts birth until today? How many dubdivisions should we use?
Pre-internet "cradle of legends"
Birth of online competitions. "Growing of legends"
Zakstunts "league of legends".
Quote from: alanrotoi on November 18, 2022, 06:04:31 PMMy impression about Stunts Eras between ~1999 and ~2010.
But there was a hill before the "Kalpen era": that was Lukas Loehrer's contest (http://www.kalpen.de/luke/), afaik the first Stunts competition ever. After he closed his we started ours.
Man, I'd like to start over... Let's get back to 1990 and do the whole thing again! ;D
Quote from: Cas on December 21, 2022, 08:08:50 PMMan, I'd like to start over... Let's get back to 1990 and do the whole thing again! ;D
And wait 7 year's for the first online competition? No thanks..
Well, I'd appreciate starting from 1997 too, ha, ha
Quote from: Cas on December 27, 2022, 07:01:04 PMWell, I'd appreciate starting from 1997 too, ha, ha
Yes, let's do (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Bq_eki1-M) that one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M97GXK2ojI). ;D
Quote from: Daniel3D on November 06, 2022, 04:24:51 PMi remember nothing before the 2003 opening track that is still a favorite.
Note to self: this is how Daniel announces competition tracks.
Quote from: Overdrijf on January 30, 2023, 09:23:00 AMQuote from: Daniel3D on November 06, 2022, 04:24:51 PMi remember nothing before the 2003 opening track that is still a favorite.
Note to self: this is how Daniel announces competition tracks.
Nice work on butchering my words.
But scary accurate unfortunately. I have a sticky mind for facts, but that's about the only thing that sticks.. :'(
With the loss of the Nas we lost several years op pictures and with that basically my memory off those events..
I just meant you said "the first track of 2003 is still one of my favorites" not long before bringing that track back in the competition. As you had been announcing that you claimed that spot early and had submitted your track already by december 3rd (see the forums) and probably earlier I assumed you stating you like the track less than a month before having it already submitted was linked to you picking this track. Part of the same track of mind, so to say.
My apologies for anything else you could have read in that message. It was not intended.
The
Quote from: Overdrijf on January 30, 2023, 02:42:27 PMI just meant you said "the first track of 2003 is still one of my favorites" not long before bringing that track back in the competition. As you had been announcing that you claimed that spot early and had submitted your track already by december 3rd (see the forums) and probably earlier I assumed you stating you like the track less than a month before having it already submitted was linked to you picking this track. Part of the same track of mind, so to say.
Although it's true what you say. They were unrelated comments at the time.
So it was not a hidden message. I did reserve this track about half a year ahead of time. Not because it's a favourite, it just happened to also be a favourite.
Back on topic..
This current race is turning out to be quite legendary on it's own 😜
QuoteMy apologies for anything else you could have read in that message. It was not intended.
I understand that. Just an unfortunate cut in the sentence..
Quiet funny now... :)