I'm making a poll for some months to know, what's your taste in Stunts. I asked pipsqueaks to rate the cars between 0 and 10. Now I ask you all who did not vote yet that please tell your marks toall the cars yuo ever used from this list (after you rated the cars, I'll show you the current standings):
Acura NSX
Audi Quattro
Chevrolet Corvette
Ferrari GTO
Jaguar XJR IMSA
Knight Rider
Lamborghini Countach
Lamborghini LM002
Lancia Delta Integrale
Melange XGT-88
Porsche 962 IMSA
Porsche Carrera
Porsche March Indy
Skoda Felicia
Just to remember, already voted:
Akoss Poo
Alan Rotoi
Argammon
Bonzai Joe
Chulk
CTG
Dottore
Gutix
CTG
Renato Biker
Usrin
Werda
Zak McKracken
Little statistics about voters - how strict they were (average of ratings):
1 Akoss Poo 5.04 (standard deviance: 3.44)
2 Argammon 5.07 (3.27)
3 CTG 5.50 (2.41)
4 Werda 5.64 (2.79)
5 Usrin 5.86 (2.18 )
6 Bonzai Joe 6.07 (3.20)
7 CTG 6.21 (3.02)
8 Zak McKracken 6.29 (2.67)
9 Alan Rotoi 6.36 (2.73)
10 Chulk 6.64 (1.39)
11 Renato Biker 6.78 (2.39)
12 Gutix 6.86 (1.83)
13 Dottore 7.00 (2.35)
Best and worst marks of each cars:
Acura NSX 9 2,5
Audi Quattro 10 3
Chevrolet Corvette 9 2
Ferrari GTO 9 1,5
Jaguar XJR IMSA 10 3
Knight Rider 8 0
Lamborghini Countach 10 0
Lamborghini LM002 6 2
Lancia Delta Integrale 8 4
Melange XGT-88 10 0
Porsche 962 IMSA 10 3
Porsche Carrera 7 3,5
Porsche March Indy 10 6
Skoda Felicia 8 0
Akoss Poo has the lowest rating average and the highest standard deviance :D He must have given a lot of 0's...
Quote from: "BonzaiJoe"Akoss Poo has the lowest rating average and the highest standard deviance :D He must have given a lot of 0's...
His bad marks were really well deserved for that ugly cars. :D:D:D
I did not remember this question CTG.
Here are my votes :
Acura NSX 7 (without power gear, this car would have had only 3)
Audi Quattro 10 (I like this one and Lancia, I can't explain why but I like to drive them)
Chevrolet Corvette 8 (hard to handle but I like it anyway, I got quite good results with this car)
Ferrari GTO 3 (I like the look of the car (that's why it's not 0), but corner handling is horrible)
Jaguar XJR IMSA 9 (easy handling, high speed, marvelous for no-RH racing)
Lamborghini Countach 7 (I don't like the point that car decreases speed while accelerating at 5th gear when climbing)
Lamborghini LM002 2 (too slow, only good for small tracks)
Lancia Delta Integrale 9 (see comments of Audi, I like this one a little less than Audi)
Porsche 962 IMSA 10 (same as Jag', but slightly faster and better looking, so 10 instead of 9)
Porsche Carrera 5 (dunno why, I never liked it very much)
Porsche March Indy 10 (fast speed, easy handling, powergear, magic carpet. This one has it all).
About non-game cars, I don't think fair to vote these 3 without voting all other modified cars. So, hidden vote from me. :P (but if you search, you may see what I think anyway)
Knight Rider 0 (stupid car)
Melange XGT-88 9 (IMSA-like car, so it's a good car)
Skoda Felicia Kompressor 2 (not realistic enough to have a better vote)
If you add all other modified cars, I'll vote on them.
Quote from: "Krys TOFF"
About non-game cars, I don't think fair to vote these 3 without voting all other modified cars. So, hidden vote from me. :P (but if you search, you may see what I think anyway)
Knight Rider 0 (stupid car)
Melange XGT-88 9 (IMSA-like car, so it's a good car)
Skoda Felicia Kompressor 2 (not realistic enough to have a better vote)
If you add all other modified cars, I'll vote on them.
These are the cheat cars ever used in ZSC and USC.
Krys Toff 6.50 (3.46) - biggest standard deviance so far.
Quote from: "Krys TOFF"0 (stupid car)
LOL - ist the Indy
intelligent? :)
Acura NSX 5
Audi Quattro 9
Chevrolet Corvette 4
Ferrari GTO 2
Jaguar XJR IMSA 8
Lamborghini Countach 8
Lamborghini LM002 5
Lancia Delta Integrale 8
Porsche 962 IMSA 9
Porsche Carrera 9
Porsche March Indy 9
yes, I like most of the cars, and I will give a perfect score to the car who I will win someday in ZSC. :roll:
Ok, I know, I will never give a 10 to any car :cry:
Quote from: "JTK"Quote from: "Krys TOFF"0 (stupid car)
LOL - ist the Indy intelligent? :)
You're search master aren't you ?
Opposite of stupid is not always intelligent. It can be clever, or, in indy's case, efficient.
Quote from: "CTG"Quote from: "Krys TOFF"
About non-game cars, I don't think fair to vote these 3 without voting all other modified cars. So, hidden vote from me. :P (but if you search, you may see what I think anyway)
Knight Rider 0 (stupid car)
Melange XGT-88 9 (IMSA-like car, so it's a good car)
Skoda Felicia Kompressor 2 (not realistic enough to have a better vote)
If you add all other modified cars, I'll vote on them.
These are the cheat cars ever used in ZSC and USC.
And what about cheated cars used on other competitions ? FSC and WSC used other cheated cars.
Quote from: "CTG"Knight Rider 8 0
I guess I'm the only one who likes Knight Rider since I gave it an 8 :?
Quote from: "Krys TOFF"And what about cheated cars used on other competitions ? FSC and WSC used other cheated cars.
They are minor competitions. :D
FSC had a track where you were supposed to create your own car :D I think it would be hard to count all the cars from that one (though I guess there weren't many pipsqueaks)
Lada Niva Comeback is the fastest car. No faster or better acceletion can be done.
Quote from: "CTG"Quote from: "Krys TOFF"And what about cheated cars used on other competitions ? FSC and WSC used other cheated cars.
They are minor competitions. :D
I made a mistake : it's WRC Stunts, not WSC.
No competition is minor to another. Competitions are not ranked according to CTG's participation level on them. :P
Quote from: "BonzaiJoe"FSC had a track where you were supposed to create your own car I think it would be hard to count all the cars from that one (though I guess there weren't many pipsqueaks)
Everybody used Lada Niva Comeback if I remember it well on this track.
I don't know, but I can see from my listings that I won the track :-)
Yes, Lada Niva is the best car, I also have my Default record in it: 21.60 :D
Quote from: "Krys TOFF"No competition is minor to another. Competitions are not ranked according to CTG's participation level on them. :P
Yes there are. Minor competition = only a few pipsqueaks. Mine is minor too compared to ZSC but still another class compared to FSC (I raced in it), Stunts LOL (I raced in it) or WRC (I raced in it).
Quote from: "CTG"Minor competition = only a few pipsqueaks.
Then ALL competitions past and present are minor compared to 4DSL.
Half-minor comps (more than 20 pipsqueaks sometimes) : Kalpen's comp, ZakStunts, 4D Contest (by Lukas Loehrer in 1997-1998).
All others (including USC :P or ISA/IRC) are minor. :-D
Do you agree ? :P
Quote from: "Krys TOFF"Quote from: "CTG"Minor competition = only a few pipsqueaks.
Then ALL competitions past and present are minor compared to 4DSL.
Half-minor comps (more than 20 pipsqueaks sometimes) : Kalpen's comp, ZakStunts, 4D Contest (by Lukas Loehrer in 1997-1998).
All others (including USC :P or ISA/IRC) are minor. :-D
Do you agree ? :P
no :P
4DSL is the best example for high number of pipsqueaks but low quality. Just remember: when there were 50 pipsqueaks, a middle class pipsqueak of ZSC could easily finish in top5. And now check SDR: 7-8 pipsqueaks, but usually only the aces can be on the podium (except R3 - Pulsion, grrrrr :lol: ).
Quote from: "CTG"4DSL is the best example for high number of pipsqueaks but low quality. Just remember: when there were 50 pipsqueaks, a middle class pipsqueak of ZSC could easily finish in top5. And check SDR: 7-8 pipsqueaks, but usually only the aces can be on the podium (except R3 - Pulsion, grrrrr :lol: ).
Angry against me because I finished 3rd at Pulsion track, overtaking you by 0.05 seconds. :-D
About level of pipsqueaks of 4DSL, ok, but remember Chulk or Dark Chaser and numerous others were just beginners. Tsino and Gutix managed to win many tracks as far as I remember. And the dual scoreboard (south american separated from the rest of the world) was made to avoid trained pipsqueaks from Europe to always be on podium.
Anyway, it's not what you said before :
Quote from: "CTG"Minor competition = only a few pipsqueaks.
You never told about level of pipsqueaks. :P
Now I did. :D
Standings after 19 voters
| 1 | Porsche March Indy | 8,71 |
| 2 | Porsche 962 IMSA | 8,12 |
| 3 | Jaguar XJR IMSA | 7,85 |
| 4 | Melange XGT-88 | 7,24 |
| 5 | Audi Quattro | 6,91 |
| 6 | Acura NSX | 6,91 |
| 7 | Lancia Delta Integrale | 6,62 |
| 8 | Chevrolet Corvette | 6,13 |
| 9 | Porsche Carrera | 5,41 |
| 10 | Ferrari GTO | 5,15 |
| 11 | Lamborghini Countach | 4,59 |
| 12 | Lamborghini LM002 | 4,32 |
| 13 | Knight Rider | 3,97 |
| 14 | Skoda Felicia | 3,64 |
I should code realistic performances for the Skoda,Lada comeback etc......... ;)
Quote from: Argammon on July 08, 2007, 01:23:45 PM
I should code realistic performances for the Skoda,Lada comeback etc......... ;)
Feel free to create new cars Agry, I'm always curious to test new cars. ;)
I would be glad to see if those who haven't voted yet would send me their car evaluations... Like Duplode, AbuRaf, Ayrton.
OK, here you have my scores. 10 is perfect(unused), 9 is great, 8 is very good, 7 is good, 6 is moderately good, 5 is bad with redeeming qualities and <5 is somewhere between plain bad and pure ****.
Originals:
Acura NSX: 6.5 - Very annoying handling for a rather slow car, but the unusual slow powergear adds some interest.
Audi Quattro: 9 - Textbook great car: nimble handling, much faster than it looks, amazing potential for crazy tricks.
Chevrolet Corvette: 6.5 - Odd handling, the awful rev-meter almost cancels any gain from the digital speedometer, and I never adapted to it. But not really bad - it has distinctive looks, has a nice, hard-to-reach powergear, and is less frustrating than NSX for being slightly faster.
Ferrari GTO: 9.5 - Beautiful, fast, and challenging in a rewarding way. The long gears and the powergear capabilities are added bonuses. When not in powergear, the combination of trick handling and powerful engine give a very nice realistic sports car feel. The extra .5 over other "9" cars is just personal flair...
Jaguar XJR IMSA: 8 - The IMSA cars are all very fast and very pleasant to handle, even if slightly bread-and-butter (that's why they are a notch below the best cars). Jaguar stands out for being the prettiest one of them (even if the 3D shape looks very unlike the real car).
Lamborghini Countach: 5.5 - Arguably the worst original car in terms of power-to-performance ratio. Anti-powergear is quite interesting but irritating and handling is awful (with the GTO at least you expect to have more trouble on corners due to the higher overall speed).
Lamborghini LM002: 7 - Extra points for originality, with the distinctive driving height and the possibility to round corners so close to the top speed (even if its very slow...). The sluggish reactions do get frustrating at times, however.
Lancia Delta Integrale: 8 - Much like Audi, but a little less spetacular.
Porsche 962 IMSA: 8 - Very much like Jaguar. P962 is not so pretty, but ranks the same for being very slightly faster and because it is the IMSA I usually perform best with.
Porsche Carrera: 7.5 - It is a quite nice car actually, if a bit boring sometimes. Great for relaxed driving in appropriate tracks. The low real top speed (~180mph) contributes to a satisfactory perception of realism.
Porsche March Indy: 9 - Staple, staple, staple... many available tricks, excellent handling, and a dizzying feel unmatched even by faster cars.
Tuned:
Melange XGT-88: 8 - A member of the IMSA family, and a pretty good car too. What it loses in pure looks to the original IMSA cars it gets in coolness, so it deserves the same grade.
Skoda Felicia Kompressor: 3.5 - Well, unlike most cheat cars at least it is possible to drive it in a rather normal way.
Knight Rider: 2.5 - Very slightly less awful than the other crazy spaceship cheat cars IIRC (I only have driven it once or twice), but still horrible.
Lada Niva Comeback: 1 - Aaargh...
And since we're here...
All other rocket cheat cars: 1 - At the very most.
Coconut Car Coronet Pulsar STi-R: 6.5 - IMSA-like, except it has a very unpolished dashboard which is not nice to look at.
Speedgate XSD: 9 - A great alternative to rocket cheat cars, as it is slightly faster than Indy on flat ground but has tangible grip limits and no powergear. Additionaly it calls for a rather different style of driving for effective performances.
LWT-ZR1 GT3 MkII: Not ranked, for obvious reasons...
Thanks for the detailed scores! They are added to the database... ;)
Quote from: CTG on August 29, 2008, 08:38:36 PM
Thanks for the detailed scores! They are added to the database... ;)
Looking at that nice table made me think of taking your stats a little bit further... due to your background, maybe you have heard of PCA or Factor Analysis at some Statistics class or somewhere similar. The general idea is to pick a dataset with a lot of possibly correlated variables (in this case, ratings for different cars) and generate, by performing sums and subtractions, a new set of variables in which correlations are, as much as possible, removed (for instance, if tastes for P962 and Jaguar were equivalent among the pipsqueaks their scores would be lumped together on the new variables). That procedure allows to identify trends more easily and to drop many redundant or otherwise non-relevant variables.
What I did was to take the data table and pass it to R (the same statistical analysis program I used to make those polygon maps at the Dissecting thread), so it would perform the PCA analysis and produce a graph, attached below. On the graph, the most relevant (horizontal axis) and second most relevant (vertical axis) variables are plotted. The arrows indicate how much each car contributed to the variables (opposite arrows => opposite trends, larger arrows => more polarizing cars, arrows in the same direction => car ratings highly positively correlated). Finally, pipsqueak names are placed according to their scores on the combined variables, so that close names indicate close tastes (with horizontal axis being more relevant than vertical in that respect).
For the calculations, I included the eleven original cars and all pipsqueaks except for Renato (since a few of his scores were missing). Since there are not that many answers the plot is still a bit unclear, but some trends are clearly visible:
- Cars that mostly everyone likes (Indy), hates (LM002) or is indifferent (Lancia, Carrera) have little bearing on the results, while GTO, Countach, Vette and Audi are the really polarizing ones. As expected... ;)
- Powersliders (Zak, BJ, Argammon) are far apart at the left corner, opposite to IMSA fans (Mark, CTG...)
- Fine-handling enthusiasts (CTG, Usrin, Doc) are close to each other in the upper-right corner, while folks who despise slow cars (BJ, Akoss, Werda) are far on the lower half.
- Not only Ferrari/Countach and Jaguar/P962 pairs are highly correlated, Vette/Audi scores tend to be quite close too... :o
Now, check the plot and find your own inferences! :)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/Duplode/carprefs.png)
I did only STD, individual points correlation to average points, mass taste index (how different are the individually given points from the average) and a cross-table for correlations between each pipsqueak's points.
Some interesting high and low correlation values:
0.90 Gutix - Mark L. Rivers
0.86 Akoss Poo - Gutix
0.86 CTG - Dottore
0.83 Gutix - Werda
0.82 Gutix - Vamologocomisso
0.81 Dottore - Vamologocomisso
0.81 Mark L. Rivers - Werda
0.81 Usrin - Vamologocomisso
0.81 CTG - Vamologocomisso
0.80 Akoss Poo - Werda
And the most negative ones... Cork dominance ;)
-0.53 Argammon - Vamologocomisso
-0.45 Argammon - Gutix
-0.45 Argammon - Mark L. Rivers
-0.42 Argammon - Werda
-0.39 Bonzai Joe - Chulk
-0.36 Bonzai Joe - Usrin
-0.36 Bonzai Joe - CTG
-0.36 Argammon - Akoss Poo
-0.35 Duplode - Renato Biker
-0.28 Argammon - Dottore
-0.28 Chulk - Zak McKracken
-0.28 Akoss Poo - Chulk
Quote from: CTG on August 30, 2008, 01:22:27 AM
0.86 CTG - Dottore
LOL! ;D
I should remove their "votes", add new cars and ask some newbies too.
I don't understand what's going on in this thread :(
It's the first time I'm checking Duplode's interesting figure.
It would be interesting to redo it without the ghosts. Would it change anything or not?
Is my car preference that extreme? I'm really in the corner. :o And if we ignore Werda's position in the figure (who is admitted to be a ghost), I am the one who is the farthest from any other drivers (or is there a bigger difference between BJ and Argammon?).
Quote from: Akoss Poo on January 25, 2012, 08:47:56 PM
It would be interesting to redo it without the ghosts. Would it change anything or not?
After re-running the R scripts without them it didn't change much overall - but your corner is even more lonely now :)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/Duplode/pcaracers_flesh_and_bones.png)
According to the results, Usrin is really my ghost. ;D
This one should be extended with the newer cheat cars and the opinion of some pseudo* and real newbies (Friker, Overdrijf, dreadnaut).
* Wow, some of the guys we think on as newbies are already here for ages.
Quote from: CTG on October 11, 2012, 10:39:45 AM
This one should be extended with the newer cheat cars and the opinion of some pseudo* and real newbies (Friker, Overdrijf, dreadnaut).
* Wow, some of the guys we think on as newbies are already here for ages.
Could you rate the following cars, please?
Ferrari F40: excellent 3D shape, awesome dashboard, great acceleration & top speed, mediorce handling in corners. Unfortunately it doesn't really fit in my driving style.
Mark: 6/10Ford Ranger: not that sophisticated design (but it's a pickup, so who cares), irrealistic acceleration and cornering.
But I'm afraid of the famous roundhouse kick, so let's give 10 points. Mark: 2.5/10Lotus Esprit Turbo: maybe the best custom bodywork I have ever seen. Engine settings are fine, but the handling is far from my taste (not that bad either).
Mark: 6/10Nissan Skyline: nice Stunts version of a tuned street drag monster (I usually hate this type of cars because of the brainless people owning them in real life - the only exception is Subaru Impreza, because I saw it first as a real rally car). Performance is fine, but the handling... well... the best word is "weird". Grip should be slightly better.
Mark: 3.5/10Speedgate XSD: as for me it's the opposite of Zapper's cars in design/"inner qualities" question. On one hand, I don't like the paintwork: the shape is okay, but you loose most of the details with the inappropriate color distribution (looks like a single mass). On the other hand, everything under the hood is excellent: acceleration, steering, speed. Although it is said to be a pseudo-IMSA car, the handling is unique compared to XJR/P962/Melange: huge difference between auto and manual gears, strange shifting, tricky landings over 200 mph. The second best custom car, right behind Rotoi's masterpiece.
Mark: 8.5/10 Superkart: not only the eye-hurting colors of the dashboard, but the whole car is extremely annoying. Sorry Overdrijf, but I can't give more than
1.5/10.
Quote from: CTG on December 15, 2012, 07:46:30 AM
Could you rate the following cars, please?
Okay, lemme try... (If you find the ratings too high, keep in mind that for me none of the original cars deserves less than a 5.)
Ferrari F40: Extremely well-tuned car; bridges perfectly the GTO-IMSA gap and is quite pleasant to drive. None of its traits, however, manage to stand out for me, so I don't feel like giving it a specially high, or low, rating.
Mark: 7.5/10Ford Ranger: NSX-like straight line performance and strangely high grip never seemed right for this pickup. No special off-road capabilities either.
Mark: 4/10Lotus Esprit Turbo: A competitor to Carrera and Skyline, it is more fun to drive than either. Good off-road performance is a nice extra, and it even makes some sense if you think of it as a tuned spy's car. Finally, it is the best looking among all the beautiful Zappercars.
Mark: 8/10Nissan Skyline: A featureless car in the vein of Carrera; compared to it, the Skyline is slightly faster but more annoying to drive.
Mark: 7/10Speedgate XSD: I used to like it more than I do now... in any case, it sure has a lot of distinctive traits that make it interesting. The handling feel is very good, specially in NoRH; and it serves as a good example of how to do a really fast car that doesn't feel like a spaceship. As for the early torque curve peak (which leads to the unusual shifting technique), I am ambivalent: it still is a bit jarring to me, even if it does help to make Speedgate unique, but at the cost of making
Mark: 8/10 Superkart: Overdrijf's kart is so different from the other cars that it almost feels wrong to rate it using the same scale. For the purposes of competition racing, the fact that it requires special purpose tracks to be really enjoyable is a very big drawback. Full marks for originality, though!
Mark: 6/10.
ZR1 GT3 and
McLaren Honda MP4/4: Too early to tell.
---
Add your votes too, folks! And please rate the original cars as well if you haven't done so in the past.
Edit: corrected the Superkart rating.
Quote from: Duplode on March 03, 2013, 06:27:45 PM
ZR1 GT3 and McLaren Honda MP4/4: Too early to tell.
I'm looking forward to try McLaren in a sharp race. The performance seems to be quite promising.
Quote from: CTG on March 05, 2013, 11:21:03 PM
Quote from: Duplode on March 03, 2013, 06:27:45 PM
ZR1 GT3 and McLaren Honda MP4/4: Too early to tell.
I'm looking forward to try McLaren in a sharp race. The performance seems to be quite promising.
Disappointing. It's too powerful and way too fast on the grass.
Lamborghini jeep 4
Lancia 7
Audi 8
Carrera 3
Acura 5
Corvette 8
Countach 6
Ferrari 2
Jaguar 8
Porsche IMSA 8
Indy 10
Other cars? ???
Adding: McLaren, 9
It's time to re-consider my votes for the original car pack, because those marks seem to be quite "track result" dependent. Since that, I don't ignore Countach - while Audi and Acura are not my favorites anymore.
LM002: still boring, but sometimes enjoyable. Mark: 4 ---> 5.5
Lancia: no change, mark: 7/10
Audi: uhm... well... I hate magic carpets. Mark: 9 ---> 7
Carrera: ZzZzZzZzZ... Mark: still 4/10
Acura: probably I registered the marks right after the helicopter thing or ZCT 66 (or maybe Bad Workforce?). Nowadays I find the PG handling of this car more and more annoying. Mark: 9 ---> 7
Corvette: PG problems vs. cool digital speedometer, 7 pts again
Countach: not my favorite one, but hate disappeared (maybe I learned a bit about the handling). Mark: 0 ---> 4.5
GTO: the Antichrist, mark: 3 ---> 0
Jaguar: I love IMSA-style. It won't ever change. Mark: 9 ---> 9.5
P962: slightly worse than Jaguar, dunno why. Mark: 8 ---> 9
Indy: as I told earlier, PG is annoying. Mark: 6 ---> 5
(Melange: still 10/10)
Quote from: MiroX on April 30, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
Lamborghini jeep 4
Lancia 7
Audi 8
Carrera 3
Acura 5
Corvette 8
Countach 6
Ferrari 2
Jaguar 8
Porsche IMSA 8
Indy 10
Other cars? ???
Adding: McLaren, 9
Adding: LWT GT3 Corvette, 7
As for me, GT3 doesn't deserve more than 5.5 pts.
so should we average to 6.25? ;D
Statistics from two votes? Not enough representative.