What happened in Budapest last night and today ?
I saw images in the news but just the end of the subject, what is the problem ?
I just wanted to open the same topic - as far as I heard there were "secret" recordings from the Hungarian prime minister talking about liying to the Hungarian people about the financial situation of the country just to be re-elected again. Is it like that? I hope, there's no trouble at where you live, Zak, guess it's more on the Pest side... :-\
I'm fine too, thanks for caring. ;D
Quote from: CTG on September 19, 2006, 10:00:53 PM
I'm fine too, thanks for caring. ;D
You don't live in Budapest, do you? By the way I hope, you're fine wll and Usrin and Akoss, too!
I just saw the news and heard some comments - the German opinion is to carefully watch, what's going on in Hungary. It is said, that there may be coming up fights or other aggressive movements in Budapest soon... What do you Hungarians think of what's happening?
Hey, this is the Hungarian chat! :P
Btw, the violent events you seen on TV happened only on one square of Budapest, in front of the building of the Hungarian Television. (You can remember on it from the game of Stunts Meeting!) The events started with a political demonstration against the government because of the reason that JTK wrote. About 10.000 people protested in front of the Parliament on Monday evening - but as it's common at such events here, many of them were extremely stupid members of extreme right-wing gangs known from matches of Fradi and ?jpest. Their leaders wrote a "proclamation" what they wanted to present immediately on TV. Naturally they weren't allowed to do that - therefore the most stupid part of the crowd (a few hundred people) grew savage and attacked the buliding of TV. Police was not prepared for such an attack, so after 1-2 hours of battle (with about 100 injured policemen mainly hit by stones, many burnt cars, broken windows and a destroyed park) they managed to break into the building at 1 am. People working there escaped on a back door, broadcast stopped... and the stupid crowd started to destroy and steal all the things, from food to computers, what they found inside. Finally, more policemen arrived from all parts of the country (I've heard them blasting for 15-20 minutes as they passed near our hostel when arriving from SW Hungary) and they managed to disband the crowd. Other parts (>99%) of Budapest felt nothing of that, although everybody is talking about the situation from his (her) own point of political view... Now there's a demonstration in front of the Parliament again - let's hope tonight it won't turn such violent.
A few remarks:
I think the situation wouldn't have become so serious if police hadn't been afraid of attacking the hooligans immediately when the violence started. (This crowd was nothing compared to the events in Paris a few months ago.) But it's not a surprise that Hungarian police wasn't enough brave. As I know this country, that would lead to a scandal: our right-wing politicians would say "everybody has the right for protesting, police has attacked peaceful people", etc...
>:(
About the story of politics: it's true that the Prime Minister admitted his lies about the financial situation on that recordings. But the losers of the elections were also lying, they promised much more things in their campaign which would be impossible even if Hungary were the richest country of the world... (Decreasing taxes and prices while spending much more money on education, health, highways, etc.) They could know that their promises are even more impossible, but they also wanted to win the elections... and now they play the role of the nice and honorable power standing for the "deluded" people. That's the most disgusting! (Btw, is there any country on the world where promises of an electional campaign can be taken seriously?)
Quote from: JTK on September 19, 2006, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: CTG on September 19, 2006, 10:00:53 PM
I'm fine too, thanks for caring. ;D
You don't live in Budapest, do you? By the way I hope, you're fine wll and Usrin and Akoss, too!
I live here on weekdays for 9 years.
I think the most serious danger of these days is the fact that many-many "average" voters of our right-wing politicians can also start to think like the attackers of TV: this wasn't hooliganism, but the start of a "revolution"... These voters are "normal" people, but their favourite politicians told them too much that the other side is an enemy of Hungary. (Why have they been telling that for about 10 years? Just for getting the votes...)
:(
Quote from: CTG on September 19, 2006, 11:03:03 PM
I live here on weekdays for 9 years.
My situation is the same. Only Akoss doesn't live here.
Quote from: Usrin on September 19, 2006, 11:16:09 PM
Quote from: CTG on September 19, 2006, 11:03:03 PM
I live here on weekdays for 9 years.
My situation is the same. Only Akoss doesn't live here.
Oh, sorry, I didn't realize that! :)
Quote from: Usrin on September 19, 2006, 10:58:26 PM
many of them were extremely stupid members of extreme right-wing gangs known from matches of Fradi and ?jpest.
Oh yes, the German TV interviewed one who looked like a real ugly right wing skinhaed and he saiad that in his heart he is a German... :-[ :-\
Quote from: Usrin on September 19, 2006, 10:58:26 PM
(Btw, is there any country on the world where promises of an electional campaign can be taken seriously?)
Vatican (where the cardinals elect), maybe?
0,44 square kilometers, population around 1000 - even if they lie, there won't be enough monks to protest and beat the guards of the pope. ;D
Last night was critical again but now the police was more confident and kicked some asses.
Interesting: the guy who made the first WSM T-shirt (Tomcat) is one of the leader skinheads arrested by the police. I won't throw out it. Just ignore the source.
Quote from: Usrin on September 19, 2006, 10:58:26 PM
Hey, this is the Hungarian chat! :P
That's why I considered appropriate to create this thread in this part of the forum, as it's a Hungarian problem.
I hope you'll all get out of trouble. No news or comments from Zak... Was he arrested with TomCat ? ??? :o
Quote from: Krys TOFF on September 20, 2006, 01:04:17 PM
That's why I considered appropriate to create this thread in this part of the forum, as it's a Hungarian problem.
I hope you'll all get out of trouble. No news or comments from Zak... Was he arrested with TomCat ? ??? :o
It's hard to imagine that Zak would ever take part in such a protest...
Btw, I hope I won't have any problem when I'll try to go out of the university (where I'm sitting now) about 4 pm. The building has been closed at 2 pm because a never-seen organization announced some kind of illegal protest here. But I have some work to do here, so I didn't leave the building, although everybody was asked for it, and now everything is incredibly quiet inside. :-\
Usrin...? Are you safe? :-X
I think it's incredible if the hungarian population really thought its politicians were telling the truth during the election campaign... Everyone probably lied, I don't see what a big difference it makes that one of them unwillingly admitted it.
Usrin: trapped in the closet? ;D
Quote from: JTK on September 20, 2006, 09:30:14 PM
Usrin...? Are you safe? :-X
Yeah, I'm out. :) There were no policemen around the university, only the doorman was a bit angry when he had to stand up from his chair and open the door to let me out. (He was watching TV, believing that nobody would disturb him until next morning.)
Quote from: JTK on September 20, 2006, 08:01:57 AM
Quote from: Usrin on September 19, 2006, 10:58:26 PM
(Btw, is there any country on the world where promises of an electional campaign can be taken seriously?)
Vatican (where the cardinals elect), maybe?
Don't forget Slovakia! As index.hu wrote (after Slovak newspaper Sme):
Szlov?k politikus nem hazudik
Mi nem hazudunk - ?ll?tj?k a szlov?kiai politikai ?let szerepl?i, akiket a SME c?m? napilap a magyar minisztereln?k, Gyurcs?ny Ferenc esete ok?n k?rdezett. Szlov?ki?ban ilyesmi nem t?rt?nhet meg - ?rja a lap az MTI szerint. "?n soha nem hazudok" - mondta Milan Urb?ni, a Vladim?r Meciar vezette korm?nyer?, a N?pp?rt-HZDS aleln?ke. Milan Hort, a Mikul?s Dzurinda vezette SDK? aleln?ke sem eml?kszik arra, hogy valaha hazudott volna. Bug?r B?la, az Magyar Koal?ci? P?rtj?nak eln?ke ?gy nyilatkozott, hogy "a kereszt?ny ember soha nem hazudik" ?s legfeljebb azt tartotta megengedhet?nek, hogy a politikus "taktikai okokb?l" esetenk?nt valamit elhallgasson.Original version:
Slovensk? politici: My neklameme
Ma?arsk?ho premi?ra zradila nahr?vka z politick?ho rokovania, na ktorej siln?mi slovami priznal, ?e voli?ov o situ?cii v krajine klamal.
Na Slovensku sa v?ak ?osi tak? asi sta? nem??e. Aj ke? sa politici navz?jom obvi?uj? zo l?i, o sebe tvrdia, ?e nikdy neklam?. Aspo? to vypl?va z reakci? politikov parlamentn?ch str?n, ktor?ch sme oslovili. "Ja nikdy neklamem," hovor? podpredseda HZDS Milan Urb?ni. Ani podpredseda SDK? Milan Hort si nespom?na na situ?ciu, ?e by klamal, aspo? nie verejne. "Nikdy som nemusel odvol?va? to, ?o som verejne povedal," hovor?. Kres?an neklame, hovor? l?der SMK B?la Bug?r. Za in? probl?m pova?uje, ?e niekedy nem??e ist? vec poveda?, lebo si to vy?aduje napr?klad politick? taktika.Translation:
A Slovak politician never liesWe don't lie - clamed persons of Slovak political life asked by newspaper SME after the case of Hungarian Prime Minister, Ferenc Gyurcs?ny. Nothing like this could happen in Slovakia, the paper writes. "I never lie" - said Milan Urb?ni, vice president of People's Party-HZDS, governing party led by Vladim?r Meciar. Neither Milan Hort, vice president of SDKU led by Mikul?s Dzurinda remembers any case when he lied. B?la Bug?r, president of Party of Hungarian Coalition [party of Hungarians living in Slovakia] told that "Christian people never lie", he felt allowable only keeping back some informations because of "tactical reasons" for a politician.
Well, don't worry, I'm also fine, just spending the week at my girlfriend's place ;)
These riots are just nonsense. As someone (I don'T remember the source) noted, Hungarian people live in happyness while they are being lied, knowing that the politicians lie, and at the moment someone is telling the truth they just can't stand it and turn violent. Incredible, really :)
During the daytime there is not much to fear from, the protests in front of the parliament have now turned calm (though I still don't get the point of it), but in the nights its quite unsafe to walk in the city, as the violent groups are starting to rampage each night, and always at a different place.
What will happen? Next sunday there are votes again - this time for the local district/city governments. I don't think things will calm down until then. But don't worry, we are fine.
Some intresting surveys and news:
57% of the population thinks that politicians lied and will lie anyway so this whole thing has no point.
32% thinks that the prime minister stating "we lied for years, day by day, night by night" will lead the country into a moral crisis.
It's very likely that the tape wasn't leaked but released by the government as a nice marketing trick. -I also agree, they reacted with statements and explanations almost immediately and perfectly, but:
The opposition now claims that the riots may be generated and organised by the government with the help of the secret service. :o This is nonsense really.
btw, couldnt agree more:
http://www.pestiside.hu/archives/midweek_briefing_your_uprising_is_like_so_two_nights_ago002753.php
I feel ambivalent about protesting. I agree with the crowd, I also went to Kossuth square few weeks ago for a day. The prime minister must leave. But on the other hand I can't see why to destroying this beautiful city with those cruel battles against the police. It's useless and stupid. Why don't they throw stones and Molotov coctail on Gyurcs?ny's house instead of burning civile people's car and crashing the windows of shops.
Quote from: CTG on October 25, 2006, 04:51:10 PM
Why don't they throw stones and Molotov coctail on Gyurcs?ny's house instead of burning civile people's car and crashing the windows of shops.
I agree with a single correction:
Why don't they throw stones and Molotov coctail on Ors?s Gipsy Viktor's house instead of burning civile people's car and crashing the windows of shops.
:P
Not politican problems but a huge bomb (2 tons) was found in Budapest at a construction (the biggest bomb ever found here - it's an American one from WW2). More than 10,000 people are evacuated, deactivation is in progress. Bomb experts say it will be a damned hard exercise because it's in a bed of concrete and it also has more than one detonators.
yes, today I felt I am exactly at the right place :)))
Maybe they should just leave it there - If it made it through 63 years without exploding, it will probably never explode :)
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on July 29, 2008, 06:17:18 PM
Maybe they should just leave it there - If it made it through 63 years without exploding, it will probably never explode :)
Well I guess they crashed into the bomb during the constructions. When such a old bomb get a hit, it can explode suddenly (you can't cover it again, it has to be removed). On the other hand even if you don't touch it anymore, an earthquake can activate it (rare in Hungary but it happens sometimes).
Another kind of trouble: flood is coming on the Danube. Budapest will survive it easily, but my hometown won't...
Quote from: CTG on June 06, 2013, 08:51:24 AM
Another kind of trouble: flood is coming on the Danube. Budapest will survive it easily, but my hometown won't...
And there's again the typical bullshit in the Hungarian media: they are panicking about Budapest and asking people to help "protecting the city", and don't tell too much about other parts of the country, where help would be really needed. Don't they see that in Budapest the Danube flows in a deep trough, the riverside is higher even than the expected record flood, so there are no dams to be strengthened? (The only exception is a housing estate north of Zak's place, but it is also only ~1 m below flood level... In NW Hungary, there are large areas which could be easily flooded by 2-3 m of water.)
Quote from: Usrin on June 06, 2013, 11:30:23 AM
Quote from: CTG on June 06, 2013, 08:51:24 AM
Another kind of trouble: flood is coming on the Danube. Budapest will survive it easily, but my hometown won't...
And there's again the typical bullshit in the Hungarian media: they are panicking about Budapest and asking people to help "protecting the city", and don't tell too much about other parts of the country, where help would be really needed. Don't they see that in Budapest the Danube flows in a deep trough, the riverside is higher even than the expected record flood, so there are no dams to be strengthened? (The only exception is a housing estate north of Zak's place, but it is also only ~1 m below flood level... In NW Hungary, there are large areas which could be easily flooded by 2-3 m of water.)
Exactly. The country with water-head...
Pessimistic as usual: I think Bácsa will be flooded. Experts say the highest water level will be on Saturday - meanwhile the historical record is already very close (45 cms left, still increasing very fast, + 3-5 cm/hours).
Quote from: CTG on June 06, 2013, 11:37:08 AM
Pessimistic as usual: I think Bácsa will be flooded. Experts say the highest water level will be on Saturday - meanwhile the historical record is already very close (45 cms left, still increasing very fast, + 3-5 cm/hours).
The chances as I see them:
- flooding of areas protected by dams anywhere in Hungary: 40%
- flooding of Bácsa: 10%
(http://docs.engineeringtoolbox.com/documents/1148/solubility-ch4-water.png)
Quote from: CTG on June 06, 2013, 11:37:08 AM
Experts say the highest water level will be on Saturday - meanwhile the historical record is already very close (45 cms left, still increasing very fast, + 3-5 cm/hours).
The record is already broken, one day left before the highest level.
Quote from: Usrin on June 06, 2013, 02:41:17 PM
- flooding of Bácsa: 10%
According to the news, it increased to 50% because of the crappy embankment in Györújfalu (~4 km from us).
Quote from: CTG on June 07, 2013, 08:52:34 PM
Quote from: Usrin on June 06, 2013, 02:41:17 PM
- flooding of Bácsa: 10%
According to the news, it increased to 50% because of the crappy embankment in Györújfalu (~4 km from us).
Wouldn't there be any obstacle in the way of the water between Györújfalu and Bácsa? When I made my estimations, I thought there would... (I gave the 40% mostly because of Györújfalu, where the dam was under construction when the flood came, but I didn't know that it threatens Bácsa.) Btw, people were evacuated from Györújfalu, but not from Bácsa, so the experts still think that it is safe.
Quote from: Usrin on June 07, 2013, 10:32:20 PM
Wouldn't there be any obstacle in the way of the water between Györújfalu and Bácsa? When I made my estimations, I thought there would...
No, there isn't.