(Zak, please move the topic elsewhere shouldn't this be quite the right place)
Well, title says it really. Wishing to try True-DOS Stunts again without leaving the convenience of Windows (and video capture ;)), I did some research and figured out a way. The procedure is somewhat involved, and requires a couple auxiliary programs - namely, in order to use an image floppy disk to boot DOS on DOSBox and an small image HD containing the Stunts installation. Fortunately, nearly all the annoying stuff needs to be done just once. I will post a step-by-steb as soon as I get to test some technicalities. However, the real question is: does this "double-emulation" scheme suceed to run authentic Stunts? Although I did notice some improvement on handling as you guys describe, I do not trust my judgement entirely, for I do not play under True-DOS since childhood... so, would any of the more experienced folks give it a try and tell us the results? Thanks in advance... ;)
After some more serious driving under this scheme, the results are truly unconclusive. Maybe I do need to burn a booter and test the real thing... Anyway, if someone wants to give it a try, here goes the walkthrough:
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First get hold of:
* Bochs 2.3.5 (http://bochs.sourceforge.net/getcurrent.html), a general-purprose PC emulator
* DiskExplorer 1.65E2 (http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA013937/editdisk/index_e.html), a nifty disk image manager.
* Stunts Competition Archive 1.0 Boot CD (http://stunts.mine.nu/zakstunts/index.php?page=download&menu=full), self-explanatory.
* Something that can open/unpack the Zak's CD (.tar and .iso) if you don't have it already. 7-zip (http://www.7-zip.org), for instance, works.
The procedure is composed mainly of four steps:
1. Create an HD image container for your Stunts folder (using Bochs 2.3.5 Disk Creation tool)
2. Use a bootable DOS flopppy image to format the HD under DOSBox
3. Package the Stunts folder and the boot files into the HD (using DiskExplorer)
4. Automatize the loading of the game, boot, and enjoy!
Notice that one does not need the floppy after setting the HD up - it can boot itself fine.
So, let's begin...
1. Create an HD image container for your Stunts folder (using Bochs 2.3.5 Disk Creation tool)
Download Bochs and install it. Then you'll find, into its Start Menu program group, the DIsc Creation tool. Creating the HD straighforward; choose "hd", "flat", a reasonable size (I'm using 20MB in this example) and a file name. At this point, the program will return the "geometry" data of the HD, note down those somewhere for you'll need them to make the HD work in DOSBox. As an example, my disk data looked like this:
cyl=40
heads=16
sectors per track=63
total sectors=40320
total size=19.69 megabytes
The image will be created on Bochs main folder at Program Files. In this example, the filename will be sthd.img
2. Use a bootable DOS flopppy image to format the HD under DOSBox
Here things start to get interesting... First step ist to get hold of the floppy image. Although you could create the image yourself from a physical bootdisk (procedures are mostly analogous to what we're doing to the HD), a very obvious place to get a suitable image is Zak's bootable CD - the .img file on [BOOT] subfolder works perfectly for our purproses. Let's rename the floppy image to flboot.img . Then, create a folder somewhere - I will call it C:\stboot - and move both images there. Now, open DOSBox and run the following commands:
mount d c:\stboot
imgmount 2 d:\sthd.img -size 512,63,16,40 -fs none
boot d:\flboot.img
The first line simply mounts the work folder on DOSBox. The second line mounts the brand new HD image. The four numbers are the disk gemoetry data presented before: bytes per sector (size in MB as reported by the program*1024*1024/n? of sectors), sectors per track, heads and cylinders in that order. Finally, the third line boots the floppy image. After booting, the image will be available as usual as drive C:.
After reaching DOS, run fdisk and create the primary partition in C (in case of doubt just mash "1"/Enter everywhere). Then, quit and re-enter DOSBox, repeat the mount/imgmount/boot sequence and run format c:. Then exit DOSBox again. Your HD is fully set up now...
3. Package the Stunts folder and the boot files into the HD (using DiskExplorer)
Time to fill the disk with stuff. Download DiskExplorer and extract it to a folder somewhere. Run the program and open the disk image. The program will ask how the disk was formatted - answer "vmware plain disk". You will then get to the contents of the HD. To add or extract files from it, just drag-and-drop from Windows Explorer (you'll be doing it a lot to send replays...). So, drag your Stunts folder - let's call it C:\st - to the disk (avoid placing the game files in root, for the sake of organization).
Next step will be to add the bootdisk contents to the HD, so that it can be used independently of the floppy (a change from the original plan, BTW). Obvious suggestions are to use the files at the root of Zak's ISO or to extract with DiskExplorer the contents of the floppy image you used. BTW, to open a floppy image just choose "manual FD" and take advantage of the "Auto Select" button on the program. Before uploading them, however, modify AUTOEXEC.BAT so Stunts can auto-load after booting. In this example, the file might (simply) look like this:
cd st
stunts_k
Then, just drop the boot files on the root of HD. There, it's done!
4. Automatize the loading of the game, boot, and enjoy!
At this point, Stunts is ready to go. The commands to be employed would be:
mount d c:\stboot
imgmount 2 d:\sthd.img -size 512,63,16,40 -fs none
boot -l c
However, you can save the effort of typing all of this before playing and make further tuning of DOSBox settings much easier by using a frontend. Create a .bat file (in Notepad), add those three lines to it and launch the .bat via a frontend profile. Combine to the use of a frontend with the capabilities of DiskExplorer (you can Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V and right-click files via Ctrl-S while inside the image) and running pure DOS Stunts becomes almost as convenient as in usual DOSBox operation. The CPU cycles setting will probably require adjustments from what you're used; else - sound, graphics, etc. - work pretty much the same.
Complicated and long. Pure DOS bootable disk is way much better and easier. ;D
I can do nothing but agree :D (for me, however, there is no easy way: all my HD's are NTFS, so they are out of range of normal MS-DOS)
Quote from: Duplode on December 04, 2007, 02:06:56 AM
I can do nothing but agree :D (for me, however, there is no easy way: all my HD's are NTFS, so they are out of range of normal MS-DOS)
Same for me with my new computer. That's why it's always useful to keep old computer when you buy a new one.
Quote from: Krys TOFF on December 05, 2007, 08:32:08 PM
Same for me with my new computer. That's why it's always useful to keep old computer when you buy a new one.
My old, faithful Athlon is well dead - I'm using what should be our secondary PC right now (still haven't bought that C2D I used to mention). But I have not given up entirely of DOS yet...
I think that the ideal system would be a real 486 from 33 to 50Mhz. I run it on a 386SX 20 Mhz but I rememember loosing frames with full detail world.
I've tried Dosbox, Windows xp emulation (with latest years xp patch lot of dos game run) and VirtualPC. Surely VirtualPC would be the best choose because it use natively the x86 dynamic emulation for the entire system but the bug is in the audio reproduction so bad in adlib,soundb. or pc speaker.
I had a trusty old P-133 for just playing Stunts - it worked like a charm. Since I have my new laptop (1,2Ghz Pentium-M), Stunts under Dosbox (and linux) runs as perfect as in native mode. I had to enable dosbox's dynamic core, no other config changes were necessary. (overlay 3x display mode in window almost fills the whole screen, perfect)
Quote from: zaqrack on December 19, 2007, 04:20:21 PM
I had a trusty old P-133 for just playing Stunts - it worked like a charm. Since I have my new laptop (1,2Ghz Pentium-M), Stunts under Dosbox (and linux) runs as perfect as in native mode. I had to enable dosbox's dynamic core, no other config changes were necessary. (overlay 3x display mode in window almost fills the whole screen, perfect)
I don't know why but it seems something different from a real system with dosbox. It loose some frame in the complex situation.. even with high cpu cycle.
Quote from: Simon82 on December 19, 2007, 09:22:06 PM
I don't know why but it seems something different from a real system with dosbox. It loose some frame in the complex situation.. even with high cpu cycle.
Then you might wish to reduce a bit the cycles (too high can cause slow down as well), or maybe turn on dynamic CPU on.
Quote from: Duplode on December 19, 2007, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: Simon82 on December 19, 2007, 09:22:06 PM
I don't know why but it seems something different from a real system with dosbox. It loose some frame in the complex situation.. even with high cpu cycle.
Then you might wish to reduce a bit the cycles (too high can cause slow down as well), or maybe turn on dynamic CPU on.
Don't you see a little difference in response time when press a command? I'm talking about millisecod but it is something I can feel. When you play on a real system you see it's better.
can your computer boot from an USB flash drive? I plan to prepare a Stunts USB boot drive image.
Quote from: Simon82 on December 20, 2007, 09:13:00 AM
Don't you see a little difference in response time when press a command? I'm talking about millisecod but it is something I can feel. When you play on a real system you see it's better.
Actually I want to check that out - so much time has passed since I last played under pure DOS that I can't remember how it was anymore :-[. I'm up to reformat into FAT32 a spare partition lying in one of my HDs, make it bootable and move the Stunts stuff there, but currently I feel a bit lazy...
Quote from: zaqrack on December 20, 2007, 11:46:12 AM
can your computer boot from an USB flash drive? I plan to prepare a Stunts USB boot drive image.
If there is a way to use it without formatting my pendrive I might consider that oprion too! ;)
Quote from: zaqrack on December 20, 2007, 11:46:12 AM
can your computer boot from an USB flash drive? I plan to prepare a Stunts USB boot drive image.
This is the first thing I've thoke to but not every pc can do it. I've a Mac Mini and with Bootcamp I don't know if it's possible. I've spare computer here and there but It would be good to have it on a usb key and surely easy to do. Just the boot drivers on it are a little tricky to install the first time.
To Duplope:
Try and you'll see that something change in better, obviously being a native environment. I thinki Dosbox fit in a layer in wich it's inserted a millisecond lag I've the unluck to feel of. Maybe I'm the only "robot".. surely I'm a passionated of the accuracy of every reproduction, talking about both dosbox or emulators.
I can only agree : even if I managed to find almost-good settings for DOSBox with my new computer, it's always with a slight "late response" of the cars compared to pure DOS. Which is a handicap, especially for corner speed.
Quote from: Krys TOFF on December 21, 2007, 10:25:17 AM
I can only agree : even if I managed to find almost-good settings for DOSBox with my new computer, it's always with a slight "late response" of the cars compared to pure DOS. Which is a handicap, especially for corner speed.
Exact, I'm happy I'm not the only one to feel it. I suffer it when I've to prepar for a dangerous turn.
...or I'm a complete DOS noob. Yesterday I created a 200MB FAT32 partition on my secondary HD and tried to load DOS/Stunts from all sorts of boot floppies and CDs I could arrange without having to tinker a lot with configs (including Zak's ISO). Nothing worked - at most I reached Main Menu and was deterred due to lack of extended memory... And, to kill my will to try it further, I had a huge scare: After launching from a FreeDOS one-floppy package and reaching the car selection screen, my video went crazy with gibberish and the PC failed to restart afferwards! I had to unplug the video card, boot the machine running on onboard video and plug the GeForce again... ???
I can't really see why you couldn't make it work. Maybe you should install DOS and then copy stunts directory to that partition. That shouldn't be so hard. Why did you try to do it with bootable floppies and CD's?
Yeah!!! Now I've a FAT32 C: partition I installed Dos 7.1 on first and after xp on it. Stunts run flawlessy smooth as never seen on dosbox. I was right on it comparing both system.
The only bad thing is that my laptop can't apparently resiza dos low res image to scale on fullscreen.. :(
As I got a work notebook at my new workplace (HP 6720s - GR649A in case anyone interested), which I will have to use while traveling to China, I formatted an USB pendrive to boot DOS and start Stunts, so I can play on any computer I meet, from now :)
The strange thing is, that on my own notebook, when I start Stunts this way, the sounds and the Music works strangely. Music skips and stops, and sound: there is no engine sound, just the sound of the landings after jumps and the skidding - I don't mind, this is the perfect setup for me. I always shift gears according to the RPM meter on the dashboard, and now I'm very intensely alerted when I start skidding. I like it!
The another reason why I post this here is if anyone would like to create a similar DOS booting pendrive, I could write a small HOWTO. A good way to use an old pendrive of yours for something useful :)
Quote from: zaqrack on January 10, 2008, 07:48:21 PM
The another reason why I post this here is if anyone would like to create a similar DOS booting pendrive, I could write a small HOWTO. A good way to use an old pendrive of yours for something useful :)
Here is one interested potential user 8)
OK, a brief HOWTO as a start:
-download a DOS/Win9x boot floppy image according to your taste. I used the standard Windows98 files available here: http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=196
-Extract them somewhere
-download HP USB Disk Format Tool available here: http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=197
-unpack and run the tool, specifying FAT32 as a filesystem, and tick Create a DOS startup disk. Specify the location of the Win98/other system files extracted earlier
-Format the drive
-Copy your Stunts directory to the USB key.
-If you want it to autostart, just edit autoexec.bat in the root of the USB key, and enter stunts_k with its path.
later I'll add pictures, and info on how to add disk caching to speed up disk access, but it's not needed for Stunts that much.