Dear all,
sorry for any possible typos, I am typing this from Budapest Arport on my PDA. By the way the Seventeen Seconds album from Cure is still great. ;)
For the 2009 season of Zakstunts here I open a contest of new cars. A maximum of 3, but maybe only one non-stock cars will be included in the next season of zakstunts. These cars can be work-in-progress cars or completely new creations.
Criterias for the cars are t
e following:
- Balanced performance (no cheat-car)
- Unique bodywork made in stressed, car must be recognisable only by look.
- Slower cars without power gear enjoy preference (it is no requirement though)
- Properly made Stunts datasheet
- Dashboard may be unchanged from a stock car but must be completely functional. (unlike the rev meter in Melange)
- The selection of cars will be entirely made by my standards.
Please send the produced cars to zaqrack@stunts.hu mail address. Deadline is the 30th of November. Short test will follow this, and the accepted cars will be announced and used with the new season.
Zak
I would like to see a Stunts truck race... ;D
A contest of new cars: wonderful news! :)
I "race" with Speedgate XSD (I have not time to elaborate a new car with Car Blaster and anyway I don't think to succeed in a better result). So, even if I'm tuning its current look with Stressed, you can already test Speedgate XSD about its drive perfomances. Please, Zak, tell me if you need something else (beside final look) to make complete its candidature.
Great initiative Zak! That will force me to finally retake work on my cars :) As of now, I do not know if my entry in this will be the GT3 with updated looks or the to-be-finished Skyline, but anyway you can test the former already, as I won't change its performance data. Just a question, Zak:
Quote from: zaqrack on October 08, 2008, 02:37:04 PM
- Dashboard may be unchanged from a stock car but must be completely functional. (unlike the rev meter in Melange)
I thought Melange's rev meter was functional... what is wrong about it? One of the issues I have to solve on the Skyline is the meter behaviour, so I need to be sure it will work according to the right specifications.
How about Krys' F1 car? Is it ready?
Quote from: Duplode on October 08, 2008, 05:06:43 PM
I thought Melange's rev meter was functional... what is wrong about it? One of the issues I have to solve on the Skyline is the meter behaviour, so I need to be sure it will work according to the right specifications.
well its functional, but it can be rather annoying that you don't know for the first time, when to shift gears. Of course with proper car descriptions attached this can be solved, but still I'd rather prefer completely new dashboards, where the rev meter is centerd at the center and you have to change at the red line.
Or if this is too complicated, one of the original dashboards without modification.
Quote from: Chulk on October 08, 2008, 06:11:57 PM
How about Krys' F1 car? Is it ready?
Not fully : I want to modify car shape and I was unable to get a powergear effect. Maybe I'll keep it this way, we'll see until november, but for sure the F1 2002 will be proposed. ;)
I really like this idea. I'm more than willing to help out if there are any technical issues. Tuning is next on my list for resource type support in stressed. Can CarBlaster edit dashboard settings?
I do have some plans for making my own cars, maybe I have one ready for the 2012 season. :D
Quote from: dstien on October 09, 2008, 09:29:09 PM
I really like this idea. I'm more than willing to help out if there are any technical issues. Tuning is next on my list for resource type support in stressed. Can CarBlaster edit dashboard settings?
I do have some plans for making my own cars, maybe I have one ready for the 2012 season. :D
Cool! (to all of the three comments :)) And yes, CarBlaster can be used to tune dashboard settings, as they are *.RES parameters as well - it only requires some patience to adjust all points on the course of the meters. The bytes and coordinates used to do so are described on the Wiki (http://wiki.stunts.hu/index.php/Car_parameters#Dashboard_controls).
Quote from: Krys TOFF on October 09, 2008, 05:43:26 PM
Not fully : I want to modify car shape and I was unable to get a powergear effect. Maybe I'll keep it this way, we'll see until november, but for sure the F1 2002 will be proposed. ;)
Krys: out of curiosity, what are the mass and drag coefficients of your F1 car? (definitions here (http://wiki.stunts.hu/index.php/Car_parameters#Physics_parameters)) Maybe something could be done about PG with a little more experimentation...
Quote from: Duplode on October 10, 2008, 05:16:14 AM
Krys: out of curiosity, what are the mass and drag coefficients of your F1 car? (definitions here (http://wiki.stunts.hu/index.php/Car_parameters#Physics_parameters)) Maybe something could be done about PG with a little more experimentation...
I studied NSX and Indy to try to find a "relation" of their settings and the powergear, and I found nothing clear. It seems the game engine has more than 1 way to produce powergear bug effect.
I don't know the mass and drag coef, I must check at home (I'm at my job right now).
As far as I remember, I decreased the car mass and the brake effect (to implement a bigger inertia), while I increased the aerodynamic resistance a little. I reduced the grip too.
Just a little help for car designing, "blueprints" of many-many cars are available here: http://carblueprints.narod.ru/
Who will design Veyron first? :D
(http://carblueprints.narod.ru/images/bugatti/bugatti-16-4-veyron-2.gif)
Quote from: Krys TOFF on October 10, 2008, 01:47:51 PM
I studied NSX and Indy to try to find a "relation" of their settings and the powergear, and I found nothing clear. It seems the game engine has more than 1 way to produce powergear bug effect.
I don't know the mass and drag coef, I must check at home (I'm at my job right now).
As far as I remember, I decreased the car mass and the brake effect (to implement a bigger inertia), while I increased the aerodynamic resistance a little. I reduced the grip too.
I asked about mass and drag because, back when I was doing experiments for the Skyline, I noticed that it appears that some mass/drag combinations can trigger powergear and anti-powergear effects. I tried to formulate a theory, which you can find here (http://wiki.stunts.hu/index.php/Car_model_physics#Power_Gear_and_Anti-Power_Gear). It sort of worked in about half of the cases, and with a bit of luck it might lead to an adequate set of parameters...
Quote from: CTG on October 10, 2008, 02:31:08 PM
Just a little help for car designing, "blueprints" of many-many cars are available here: http://carblueprints.narod.ru/
That's really helpful, thanks! I was wondering about using Gran Turismo screenshots as basis for the Skyline model when I get to do it, but this can make it much easier :)
Due to the polygon limit, I'll give a try to simple shaped cars like primitive Jeep models, Renault 5 or Lada 2107 first. My final goal is to make the real KITT. ;)
Quote from: Duplode on October 10, 2008, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: Krys TOFF on October 10, 2008, 01:47:51 PM
I studied NSX and Indy to try to find a "relation" of their settings and the powergear, and I found nothing clear. It seems the game engine has more than 1 way to produce powergear bug effect.
I don't know the mass and drag coef, I must check at home (I'm at my job right now).
As far as I remember, I decreased the car mass and the brake effect (to implement a bigger inertia), while I increased the aerodynamic resistance a little. I reduced the grip too.
I asked about mass and drag because, back when I was doing experiments for the Skyline, I noticed that it appears that some mass/drag combinations can trigger powergear and anti-powergear effects. I tried to formulate a theory, which you can find here (http://wiki.stunts.hu/index.php/Car_model_physics#Power_Gear_and_Anti-Power_Gear). It sort of worked in about half of the cases, and with a bit of luck it might lead to an adequate set of parameters...
Interesting, I missed this part in the wiki. Thanks Duplode. ;)
Quote from: CTG on October 10, 2008, 07:31:25 PM
Due to the polygon limit, I'll give a try to simple shaped cars like primitive Jeep models, Renault 5 or Lada 2107 first. My final goal is to make the real KITT. ;)
Please, forget the Renalut 5. Do the Citroen AX and you have a sure way to the 2009 season fame :)
Quote from: zaqrack on October 11, 2008, 08:34:07 AM
Do the Citroen AX and you have a sure way to the 2009 season fame :)
This one reminds me on the my second favorite game: bribe the local authority... ;D
Other useful sites for car modelling:
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/cars/
http://www.tutorials3d.com
http://www.carblueprints.net/
http://leander.mutsaers.us/
Since this topic has links to all those blueprints, I'll explain here the trick I am using to grab coordinates for the Skyline. There is an extremely useful program called Engauge Digitizer (http://digitizer.sourceforge.net/) which allows one to extract coordinates from 2D graphs and images. All I had to do was to import the blueprint on the program and define three reference (axis) points according to the desired dimensions of the car (I picked the in-game ZR1 z-coordinates and calculated the adequate in-game dimensions from the Skyline height/length and width/length ratios). After the reference points are set, the program will tell the coordinates of any point of the screen as you hover the mouse above them. Just repeat the procedure for each of the views of the car, enter the grabbed coordinates on your 3D editor of choice and that's it - lazy modeling never made so convenient... :D BTW, Engauge is natively available for both Windows and Linux.
Useful trick but I'm staying at Stressed edition. Simple reason: I enjoy it... :)
Duplode, have you tried loading the blueprints into Anim8or (http://www.freewebs.com/rdanim8or/newcartutorialwip.htm)?
Quote from: dstien on October 21, 2008, 02:25:06 AM
Duplode, have you tried loading the blueprints into Anim8or (http://www.freewebs.com/rdanim8or/newcartutorialwip.htm)?
No, I didn't! :o Although I'm not sure if I would prefer this method to model the general shape of the car (as one would have to cope with the three dimensions at once and then correct coordinates to integers anywyay), it seems to be quite helpful for reproducing smaller details in front and rear wiews. I'll keep note of it ;)
I wonder if JTK would join a race with this car or not... ;) ;D
this kicks ass :)
Quote from: CTG on October 27, 2008, 01:09:51 PM
I wonder if JTK would join a race with this car or not... ;) ;D
Nice one. :)
Quote from: CTG on October 27, 2008, 01:09:51 PM
I wonder if JTK would join a race with this car or not... ;) ;D
Whoooaaa - I want this car! Immediately!
It may not be faster than 100 km/h and may take up to 10 seconds to reach 80 km/h!
Please build this car and give it to me, pleeeeease!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: JTK on October 31, 2008, 12:59:18 PM
Please build this car and give it to me, pleeeeease!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Bodywork OBJ file is done but CarBlaster is not my cup of tea. Maybe Duplode can help... ;)
I can, at some point in the (relatively) near future. Do you plan to have it as slow as it should for the sake of originality? If so, finding some specs would be useful.
Yes, it should be original (must be great fun to jump into a house instead of over... ;D
Attachment #1: Design of the T3 (unfortunatly I found none with the high roof mine has)
Attachment #2: technical specs (please use the 51 kW bus)
Attachment #3: technical specs in English (please use the 70 bhp Turbo-Diesel)
:) :) :)
And here' the cockpit:
pic #1: instruments
pic #2: steering wheel
The specs on those sheets should be enough for building a good *.RES - with power output and max torque and their locations in rpm a reasonable torque curve shouldn't be too hard to guess after having a look at the profile of a similar van (even if it's not exactly the same). I promise I won't take too long to look into it, even if it will probably not be before Zak's contest. Just a question: which gearbox should I choose?
And BTW, those pics of the dashboard are really clean shots. With some luck even a direct conversion might be feasible ;)
5-gears gear box is best! :) I'm so looking forward!!!
Quote from: CTG on October 27, 2008, 01:09:51 PM
I wonder if JTK would join a race with this car or not... ;) ;D
Did your car models survive your massive computer crash? Will you finish one of them in time for the deadline?
Quote from: dstien on November 26, 2008, 09:13:31 AM
Did your car models survive your massive computer crash?
Yes. (Like my FTT09 replay but sssssssssssssssh... ;))
Quote from: dstien on November 26, 2008, 09:13:31 AM
Will you finish one of them in time for the deadline?
No. I made those models just for fun, independently from the car designing contest. On the other hand polygons are in mess in all my OBJ files (looking ugly in Stunts), so I lost enthusiasm and did not correct them with the new experiences of you and Duplode written in the correspondent topic. I can make those imperfect OBJ files available and then feel free to improve them - I won't.
And did you start with the Volkswagen T3 yet? :)
Quote from: CTG on November 26, 2008, 09:57:32 AM
No. I made those models just for fun, independently from the car designing contest. On the other hand polygons are in mess in all my OBJ files (looking ugly in Stunts), so I lost enthusiasm and did not correct them with the new experiences of you and Duplode written in the correspondent topic. I can make those imperfect OBJ files available and then feel free to improve them - I won't.
Are they looking disproportional, glitchy or something else? We really should have a look at them, those problems may well be easier to solve than it seems (your models looked pretty good on your screenshots...)
Quote from: JTK on November 28, 2008, 02:55:57 PM
And did you start with the Volkswagen T3 yet? :)
Sorry, not yet - and I can't really give secure predictions on it. It would be nice, and quicker, if this could be developed as a collaboration between two or more of us, though... ;) And BTW, regardless of any glitches, using CTG's model as base would hasten things a lot with the 3D part.
---
As for the Skyline, my contest entry: it is essentially finished - I will just review it for any "bugs", test the specs and write a read-me. Hopefully I will be able to send it before midnight... :) BTW Zak, did any other submissions arrive already?
not yet. but of course if you're late a little and tell it before, it is no problem at all...
Here it is my car for Zak's contest car, of course Speegate XSD (2009 Restyling). :)
No modifies to the technical features, only a body restyling. Old body (original shape from Porsche 962) has been substituted by a new body that you can see in the attached images. ;)
... and more... ;)
I already installed it, and the result is gorgeous - it really looks as fast as it is now! 8) I'd only suggest you to include the .RES on the zip, even if it was left unchanged, in case some newbie decides to get the car form this thread.
Quote from: zaqrack on November 30, 2008, 07:55:44 PM
not yet. but of course if you're late a little and tell it before, it is no problem at all...
Maybe I won't be able to finish it in 45 minutes indeed... in that case, I'll submit it in the following few hours, even if slightly late (must be within this night or else I won't be able to work on it again until about Thursday). Thanks for the patience... ;)
I hope Rotoi will re-design Melange XGT-88. ;)
Quote from: Duplode on November 30, 2008, 11:20:00 PM
I already installed it, and the result is gorgeous - it really looks as fast as it is now! 8) I'd only suggest you to include the .RES on the zip, even if it was left unchanged, in case some newbie decides to get the car form this thread.
Thanks! :)
And, of course, I've just added the .RES on the zip as you suggested me. ;)
Well, I had to finish it eventually - so here you have the Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R in all of its might. Performance wise, I'd say (quoting the read-me) the final product is a Stunts car occupying a niche close to Acura NSX and Corvette ZR1 - as the real car probably would - but without powergear. Additionally, some measures were taken to make the handling more enjoyable than that of its direct competitors without making it needlessly easy. As for looks, well, I could provide screenshots, but I prefer you to get your first impressions directly... ;)
Great work, both of you! Cruising around DEFAULT.TRK hasn't been this interesting in decades. ;)
Quote from: dstien on December 01, 2008, 12:29:34 PM
Cruising around DEFAULT.TRK hasn't been this interesting in decades. ;)
'Cause you missed ZCT 79. ;D
wonderful work from both of you, after a half hour of testing I can already conclude that the Speegate and the Skyline both made it to ZakStunts 2009. The Speedgate is a bit too fast for my taste, but that is my individual problem, with the given background it is completely reasonable. (I will have to learn driving fast cars after all, gosh... :)
I did not see any major bugs which need modification - the cars are OK in their current form.
There is still one free slot for another car, I received no more applications. I see the following options in this state:
- Melange by Alan -> the .res is OK. Uniquely distinguishable bodywork and proper dashboard (and rev. needle) are needed.
- Ford Ranger by Cody -> the bodywork is OK (with some minor glitches at the last color option) But with the current .res I can't accept this car for the competition. The mistakes to be fixed in order to let the car qualify for ZakStunts:
- The most important: proper, realistic skidding is needed.
- Acceleration should be also significantly lower for such a chassis.
- RPM display on dashboard should enter red line around 5500rpm.
- As for the top speed, I don't mind if its faster than the "factory default" Ranger, but in this case the datasheet should reflect these values. (Like an american muscle-car tuned Ranger, with ~300BHP
- Any other car made from scratch or based on previously made materials.
- No other car, and we'll start with 14 cars.
As I'll only start the car evaluations for the next season on the 20th of December, I can extend the deadline to this date for a third car, if the scheduled completion is announced here this week. Cars made in coproduction are also welcome.
Zak
Quote from: zaqrack on December 01, 2008, 05:52:24 PM
wonderful work from both of you, after a half hour of testing I can already conclude that the Speegate and the Skyline both made it to ZakStunts 2009.
:) - not only due to the Skyline but also because I will really love to make use of the Speedgate next season! Thanks!
Quote from: zaqrack on December 01, 2008, 05:52:24 PM
- Melange by Alan -> the .res is OK. Uniquely distinguishable bodywork and proper dashboard (and rev. needle) are needed.
It would be interesting to know whether Alan has some concept about what an unique 3D shape for his creation should look like... ;)
Quote from: zaqrack on December 01, 2008, 05:52:24 PM
- No other car, and we'll start with 14 cars.
You meant 13 (11+2) cars, right? In that case, there would be (theoretically) another free slot?
Edit: Just one minor thing, Zak: I just noticed I forgot to change the line termination on the Skyline readme from Unix to DOS, a minor annoyance to Windows users. I rectified the zip on my previous post, so before you make the Skyline zip available elsewhere can you please re-download it?
yes, definitely. and I meant 13 :)
Quote from: zaqrack on December 01, 2008, 05:52:24 PM
wonderful work from both of you, after a half hour of testing I can already conclude that the Speegate and the Skyline both made it to ZakStunts 2009.
I'm really happy, Zak! :) Racing in ZakStunts is the highest honour for a car, and I'm very glad that you reserved this honour to Speedgate XSD... :)
But I'm really very happy to see on board the Skyline R32 GT-R too! :) I just tested it and I think it's really great, Duplode! You did a marvelous work tuning the car so to have the impression to drive a real car indeed! I liked (as it's known... ;)) a car with a good grip, and if Skyline was only a bit more "attached" to the asphalt... it would be already true love between it and me... (but this could anyway become true... ;)). In evry case, it's really great, and your work really amazing! :)
Quote from: Mark L. Rivers on December 02, 2008, 11:48:04 AM
But I'm really very happy to see on board the Skyline R32 GT-R too! :) I just tested it and I think it's really great, Duplode! You did a marvelous work tuning the car so to have the impression to drive a real car indeed! I liked (as it's known... ;)) a car with a good grip, and if Skyline was only a bit more "attached" to the asphalt... it would be already true love between it and me... (but this could anyway become true... ;)). In evry case, it's really great, and your work really amazing! :)
Wow, I'm really glad to see you liked my civilian road car maybe as much as I enjoyed your furious GT1 beast :) :) About the grip levels, indeed they were almost like you suggested (about 5% higher) until a few days ago, but then on the final tests they were slightly reduced in order to make powersliding and sliding jumps more viable (and, hopefully, less RH-reliant) at moderate speeds (one of the things that frustrate me a bit with the regular IMSA cars, for instance).
Thanks for using Melange! I wonder why nobody likes the dashboard... it was the unique to fit the digital speedometer properly. :(
The rev. needle is easy, it just got the top rpm at the triangle :)
we love the digital speedometer. just that rev needle is the annoying thing.
I still need a proper bodywork for the Melange to let it run in 2009... :(
Talking with Alan he showed me a possible model for Melange (http://www.javierjaspe.com.ar/turismo-carretera.jpg). If he'll make it by Stressed, it will be so cool... ;)
Quote from: CTG on December 07, 2008, 11:23:50 PM
Talking with Alan he showed me a possible model for Melange (http://www.javierjaspe.com.ar/turismo-carretera.jpg). If he'll make it by Stressed, it will be so cool... ;)
Oh my, that's truly
lovely :) :)
well if it will be done on schedule I'm okay with 4 extra cars next year...
I believe we have quite enough cars... This will make it much more difficult for newbies to join, because they have to download four new cars (and learn how to install a new car) in order to seriously play along in the competition.
I will release the required cars in one pack together and also they will be bundled to the Stunts zip downloadable from ZakStunts
I still think you are overestimating the patience of a newcomer :)
Imagine if you are visiting an unusual, unknown site of a game you kind of like and want to check out. How long will you concentrate in order to navigate the site and find out how exactly to participate in a competition?
As it is now, I think Zakstunts is already too difficult for newbies. You need "JOIN THE COMPETITION" in big letters in the middle of the screen, right after a short, to the point description of what the competition is and how it works. Then a step by step guide: 1. download the game (+"skip if you already have it" +link to bugfix subforum), 2. Download this month's track, 3. Information about replay handling and links to noRH competition sites (+DOSBox download and noRH rules), 4. Information about Zakstunts rules, particular an easily understandable description of the car bonus rule, 5. Enter your name and country and profile info. These should be separate, linked pages.
But of course it all depends on the vision for Zakstunts. In 2006 or 2007, you intended it to be a special elite competition. In that case, it's not so important to be newbie-friendly. If Zakstunts is meant to be the center and entrance gate to the Stunts community, as I think it could be great if it was, it is indeed important.
You are absolutely right... ZakStunts rules and introduction is still based on what I wrote 8 years ago... shame...
But I'll have a 17 day long break from work starting the 20th of December and I plan major reorganization (no redisgn or structure redesign, but stuff improving usability) to the site. Thanks for the tips, they'll be all implemented in some form and more are always welcome!
Quote from: CTG on December 07, 2008, 11:23:50 PM
Talking with Alan he showed me a possible model for Melange (http://www.javierjaspe.com.ar/turismo-carretera.jpg). If he'll make it by Stressed, it will be so cool... ;)
Quote from: zaqrack on December 08, 2008, 11:17:55 AM
well if it will be done on schedule I'm okay with 4 extra cars next year...
I would like to help with this, but I'm afraid I wouldn't find enough time on the following days to get it ready on time... The only possibility I see is with, say, three people cooperating (with Alan agreeing and if possible supervisioning the whole thing, of course). Any volunteers?
Let me think a bit, I'm very busy too.... ::)
Bad luck, I'm also quite busy... On the other hand my car editing skill SUCKS! ;D
Quote from: zaqrack on December 01, 2008, 05:52:24 PM
As I'll only start the car evaluations for the next season on the 20th of December, I can extend the deadline to this date for a third car, if the scheduled completion is announced here this week.
So, deadline is here, which is the last car added? I think Cody's ranger is finished, what about Melange?
yep, any update on the melange?
sadly if there is no update on the melange until tomorrow, I have to announce the season without it. :(
It seems I introduced a weird bug during the final revisions of the Ranger: the current car does not print its name to the scoreboard after the end of the race... ??? Here is a corrected file - naturally, no performance data was changed, so no one that downloaded the currently available car will be harmed in competition by missing the correction. Sorry for the trouble Zak!
no problem, fixed the archives!
No Melange in 2009?!? :-\ I'm very sad. :'(
it did not depend on me :(
Of course there will be Melange in USC. If Alan allows me to work on the new look of Melange, I will do it.
I must say I am generally impressed with the new cars. Especially the designs of the dashboards and the cars from outside are really well made. I would have preferred some cars that are less like the original ones, but I guess they are a little different.
I would like to increase the car number to 15 in 2010, by including a new one while retaining the current cars.
The conditions are the same as last year: realistic handling and appearance.
A good and easy candidate would be a new bodywork and dashboard for the Melange, but I am open for other ideas as well.
In case two properly designed new cars will be available, we might drop the Ranger in favor of a car with more realistic handling.
Any interest / voluntteers?
There's Overdrijf's ghost Kart :)
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on October 21, 2009, 05:42:09 PM
There's Overdrijf's ghost Kart :)
It would be so cool to see that one finished :)
There is also my GT3 - which you can get from the Southern Cross page - although I don't think its handling traits would get too many fans. It goes without saying, of course, that the best option for a new addition would be a restyled Melange. Too bad CTG's mod files got lost, they looked very cool :-\
no new cars will be included for the 2010 season. Perhaps next year...
2009 had new cars, 2011 had new cars. Wake up everyone, let's start building for 2013!
;)
http://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=2219.msg38357#msg38357
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
::)
Ah yes, the JTKar! I have to look for the 3D shape, it must be somewhere in my D:/Installs/Stressed/Stunts/???/??? subdirectories. If not, it's not so hard to rebuild the basic shape.
I remember having done a few quick tests with CarBlaster and the specs JTK posted, many moons ago. A bit tricky because it was getting close to the lower limit of performance which Stunts can reasonably model :) but technically feasible overall. The *.RES must be somewhere in my Stunts dir-tree as well...
:) :)
And I started building on my own van again, so then we'll have a matching set. (Except I'm aiming or "way more unrealistic than fits into zakstunts", but it will still look like a matching set.)
I allow everyone to make a "body" to melange car, I would like to see it in competition again :)
Quote from: CTG on October 27, 2008, 01:09:51 PM
I wonder if JTK would join a race with this car or not... ;) ;D
Could you please post a linky to that bus? <3