Hi All,
You may not have seen my message on ZakStunts: I have banned two users from both the forum and ZakStunts: Vector and CTG.
Vector's ban was requested by one user, CTG's ban was requested by four users, including myself and himself.
As despite his request CTG almost immediately tried to come back under a new alias, I had to restrict forum registration to require admin approval. I may need to do the same on ZakStunts.
I am sorry the situation has come this far and hope my decision benefits the community. Please let me know if you disagree.
You know my opinion. A known cheater and harmful user banned is a good thing. He had 12 years full of opportunities and every time he could a racing or coexistence rule were broken.
I don't know how it happened but I agree.
I'm new but , really you banned CTG ?
yes, I think he crossed a certain threshold and the community was more in favour of banning than not.
For those who are close to ejaculate on the punishment: the one who wanted CTG's banning the most was CTG himself. I'm happy to be free from zStunts participation and I think it should have happened already in 2002. Or after the Silver Spirit case, at latest. I've asked Zak for this punishment several times in the last few years, without success. I tried to close USC, or at least to give it to another manager (with all the pending car projects), but it was simply refused. I think hunting for a ban was the only way to finish my job here.
About USC: the season will be finished as planned, probably only with a few days of delay. Mostar is suspended as long as I re-build the site on a different server. After that, just post your replay in the Forum as you did before (with the time result in your text message as I can't see the downloadable files as a guest).
Quote from: Somebody Else on March 12, 2015, 03:07:53 PM
the one who wanted CTG's banning the most was CTG himself.
I'm more than satisfied with a 2nd place there.
It's obviously the right of the host to decide who is welcomed in his home/party/webpage/forum. However: Zak, if you don't want new registrations without your approval, I'd suggest reviewing ALL existing registrations. There may be dozens of sleeping ghosts amongst them, who can be revived anytime without your control. And CTG is not the only pipsqueak with high ghost potential...
For example, I'm not really convinced* that Marco is a newbie...
*: understatement
For example if you banned Usrin The Slovak, I'd appear immediately. :) But poor Usrin would have no 2nd chance. Unlike some others, I guess.
I prefer not to waste my efforts reviewing the 201 current registered members and make assumptions whether they are ghosts or not. As soon as a sleeping ghost reappears and does damage, or tries to login with several incorrect password attempts, actions will be taken.
I have no interest in acting as a warden trying to keep CTG away from the community at all costs. He is obviously unable to leave. All I want to do is him to leave others in peace.
Oh, I'm new so I don't know what has happened . I found CTG very funny with his jokes , maybe because I'm new, maybe because my confidence with the english is reduced :), don't know .i have always thought that he was simply joking . Anyway, because you requested an opinion, in this moment I have to disagree with his ban.
It's not the main thing but, To Lose a fast player as him fighting for the 1st position ... is anyway a sad moment. His youtube channel has no more videos in this moment ...
Nobody is 100% ballast in a community but some may be 90%.
Quote from: Marco on March 12, 2015, 04:34:23 PM
His youtube channel has no more videos in this moment ...
Watch mine ;)
I have only one Stunts' video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n2iuVu6s8o
There's a very long history to this that you haven't witnessed, Marco. I think the ban is well deserved. It's sad because CTG is also a positive forum member and competition pipsqueak at the same time as being a deceiver, a spammer and a false accuser. I hope to see him return if he grows too old for the trolling and decides to calm down and behave like a normal person.
You spent 12 years together and now ban :) I'm here since only 2 races but this cannot be considered a boring place for sure :))) I have always thought that Zak and CTG were joking and that seems to me very funny. This is a big joke and I'm the newby victim :))
I also tried to consider it a joke, but after the 100th time it is not really funny anymore :(
Quote from: zaqrack on March 13, 2015, 09:09:12 AM
I also tried to consider it a joke, but after the 100th time it is not really funny anymore :(
AHAHAH, ok , Now I understand why I find this funny. Because I'm only at the 2nd time. Are the ghosts the main problem for this site ?
CTG requested access to the forum, claiming he has no interesting in racing at ZakStunts but would like to participate in community life. I leave it up to the community to decide. Voting only allowed through a forum post on this thread or a PM to me if you prefer your opinion not to be disclosed to the public. Please share your opinion by the 15th of April.
Options:
- keep CTG banned permanently and ban all his aliases and ghosts that may reappear
- remove the forum ban but limit posts/day for CTG to a certain number (e.g. 10/day)
- remove the forum ban, but put in place a temporary (e.g. two weeks) ban system for personal insults, accusations or posting under a ghost alias
- fully remove the ban
- other - your recommendation
Option 5:
If he needs the community life (but doesn't want to race), and if you accept his comeback in this aspect... give him back the option of posting in non-racing subforums (e.g. Chat-Misc, Hungarian Chat, Looping Warriors sub-forum etc.). I don't think that his spamming was the reason of the ban, so I would not limit his number of posts. If somebody doesn't want to see his posts, he can ignore him in the forum settings, as it was before, too.
But please delete all his ghost accounts.
I'd say option 1 would be the most fair because he doesn't appear to have learned anything or be prepared to change his behaviour. He's still using fake accounts and putting them on the Zakstunts scoreboard, and he's already has second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth, thirteenth, fourteenth and fifteenth chances.
However, option 3 could also be okay because, as I've said before, he's capable of behaving like a grown-up and takes a deep interest in Stunts, so if we can really limit his spamming and trolling, there shouldn't be a problem. What you could call "the real CTG" behind all the crap, is someone I'd like to have on a forum. But in later years, that person has only accounted for 5-10% of activity.
The spamming bothers me a lot because I feel like the possibility to have real human-to-human conversations here drowns in it. I really enjoyed the weeks we had without him. But if he's with us but not posting useless drivel all the time (including countless boring posts about personal life, weight, exams, drinking and American hockey), that would also be great.
thanks Akoss and BJ.
anyone else with a well-formulated opinion?
Personally, I wouldn't mind having CTG back to the forum, but restoring the status quo ante bellum won't cut it, so neither option 1 nor 4. From the other two, I lean very slightly towards option 3 because it is the least arbitrary - however it is also the one with the highest potential for drama. If you want to minimise that risk, option 2 (perhaps with a slightly higher limit) would be good enough as far as I'm concerned. Akoss' suggestion is not bad either, the main issue with it being that I also consider the "Stunts - The Game" subforums as "civilian" areas, and by adding them most of the active parts of the forum would be covered.
My line of thought follows quite closely BJ's, but I'd like to see option 2 implemented, with a very low limit, let's say two or three messages. Given the volume and speed of discussion on the forum, that would be enough to write anything important.
My opinion is that we know how is his behavior and he won't change it in 2 weeks. Some people says he maintain the community "alive" but I disagree about the concept "alive". I prefer to chat and race with real people without wiles. His first ghost is from his very first race in April 2002... so 13 years cheating, abusing the system, lying. It sucks.
To let him in again in any byte of the community is to legitimize his behavior and the ban turns useless. If you want this kind of "alive community" go ahead and let him in.
Since his behavior also extends to the forum with fake accounts I guess it's fair to ban him here too. I vote for 1. "keep CTG banned permanently and ban all his aliases and ghosts that may reappear" + from zakstunts and stunts forum.
I wouldn't mind having him back as long as he keeps a civilized behavior. However, I feel that is not an option at this very moment because
a- I don't think a behavior like his can be changed in a short time span, so it would most likely bring back the same old CTG
b- I don't feel the time he was ban is fair for all the damage he did. Specially considering he was given many warnings which he decided to ignore and continue doing what he knew was wrong. Too many intentional harm done to be paid with only a few weeks ban.
So my opinion would be to keep the ban for a couple of months (with the exception of USC subforum and managing) and, if he continues behaving correctly, reconsider the ban
I vote for limited access to the forum - either with a limit on the number of posts (option 2) or defining a list of sub-forums he can access (option 5, as defined by Akoss Poo). And I'd support a full, immediate ban for ALL ACCOUNTS of ANYBODY caught with a ghost account at ZakStunts or in the forum. It is ridiculous that after all these annoying ghost stories we still have "Mr. Stunt", "gigi", etc...
Quote from: Usrin on April 14, 2015, 10:51:12 PM
I'd support a full, immediate ban for ALL ACCOUNTS of ANYBODY caught with a ghost account at ZakStunts or in the forum. It is ridiculous that after all these annoying ghost stories we still have "Mr. Stunt", "gigi", etc...
Agreed! Except for those who were created only for humour purposes and fully disclosing it was a ghost from the start, with no intent to cheat or hurt the community in any other way
Quote from: gigiChulk, Rotoi: why do you say "two week is not enough to change behaviour"? You know me well, so you should notice that I won't ever change - even if it's a 10 years long ban. Sure, I have bad periods, good periods - the only difference would be the DQF from ZakStunts, avoiding ghost activity. However, I respect your opinion.
I wrote that knowing you'll read. You are banned but still you find the way to cheat. Thanks for respect my opinion. Could you respect the ban too? After all the years you tease me and my team accusing us to be like you, I think you deserve a permanent ban.
Thank you for your opinions. I will draw a conclusion and apply rules accordingly by this weekend, followed by an announcement. Same applies on 2014 scores.
Irreversible and full ban: 1 vote (Rotoi).
Reversible ban/tryout period/partial amnesty etc.: many votes.
Everything should go as earlier: 0 votes.
About 2014 scores... should we also tell our opinion? Or will it be only the competition manager's decision?
If CTG is serious in saying he'll never change his behaviour, that's 2 votes for option 1.
You get banned for something, you promise to do it again, you stay banned.
Quote from: Akoss Poo on April 15, 2015, 11:11:11 AM
Irreversible and full ban: 1 vote (Rotoi).
Reversible ban/tryout period/partial amnesty etc.: many votes.
Everything should go as earlier: 0 votes.
About 2014 scores... should we also tell our opinion? Or will it be only the competition manager's decision?
Your opinion is of course welcome on 2014 scores.
Well, thanks. But this is the only thing where I can be very biased, since it is about my championship title. :-) Though I know that I wasn't the best driver last season and I don't deserve it. I just wonder about the opinion of the other dr!vers.
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on April 15, 2015, 12:04:50 PM
If CTG is serious in saying he'll never change his behaviour, that's 2 votes for option 1.
You get banned for something, you promise to do it again, you stay banned.
That's not a valid argument. Who does not race at all and has only limited access to the forum, is simply not able to create a ghost army or take part actively in flamewars. Even if he wants.
Surely anyone can create ghosts at Zakstunts and the forum?
I'm just thinking if the goal is to wean CTG off his need to abuse this community, giving him something do here is not the best idea.
I would like to suggest a fair action. My opinion was to ban CTG in every season he cheated, that would be fair but now I think a better way to penalize this behavior is to DQF all his results in every season but not his lowest alias.
For example in season 2011 he raced under several names so I propose to DQF them and let his lowest alias (in this case Gagarin).
And about the forum his many ghosts with accounts here were a complement of the cheat creating a believable lie. That's why I think he should be banned here too. There were a lot of comments, dialogs with real people, fake votations, etc. All of these supporting lies with the only purpose to let his ghosts beyond suspicion.
Quote from: zaqrack on April 15, 2015, 09:24:14 AM
Thank you for your opinions. I will draw a conclusion and apply rules accordingly by this weekend, followed by an announcement. Same applies on 2014 scores.
What is the decision?
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on April 15, 2015, 12:04:50 PM
If CTG is serious in saying he'll never change his behaviour, that's 2 votes for option 1.
Make that 3.
Quote from: Akoss Poo on April 15, 2015, 12:18:09 PM
I know that I wasn't the best driver last season and I don't deserve it.
You're missing a very important part here. It's not just about being the best (fastest would be more precise) driver. It's about being the fastest while FOLLOWING THE RULES. You were the best at it, you deserve the title IMHO
I would like to explain my suggestion about forum ban. I mean a ban in every Stunts subforum. The "Life beside Stunts" subforum doesn't apply since his behavior is all about stunts. A limited access to "Life beside Stunts" and his championship subforum is what I propose.
Whoa - I take a look at the forum each 3 months or so... and today I was surprised: "Show unread posts since last visit" showed only about 30 threads - that's what's happening without CTG, who once (among other reasons) made it easy for me to leave the forum. I couldn't stand his comments to each and every written word anymore. Zak moooonths ago told me to block him, but then I could not understand many forum threads anymore. To me his spams brought the forum and the community down, because it was hard to find some content drops in ocean of spamming...
glad to see you here 8)
8)
I am sorry, but I have no other means left following CTG's behavior in the past few days:
An unprecedented case happened: A pipsqueak was banned from the competition.
Multiple champion CTG, despite his long-standing racing career and established position in our community has violated several competition rules, raced under multiple aliases, admittedly modified cars for his own benefit and has accused and abused others in the forum and other channels repeatedly.
Despite our best intent to agree on mutual terms and let him continue to be part of our community, he seems unable and not wanting to change.
Therefore, we have no other means but to announce the following:
CTG is banned from participating in ZakStunts. His access to the Stunts Forum is limited to the very basics: The USC subforum and generic Stunts-related topics (Stunts-the game subforum). He is not allowed to start new topics even in these boards. This limited access will be also removed immediately upon the first abuse of any community member.
Moreover, CTG's is disqualified from the 2014 championship retrospectively. His monthly results are not touched for the sake of archive consistency. So the 2014 seasons final results are as follows:
1st: Akoss Poo, champion. Congratulations!
2nd: Duplode
3rd: dreadnaut
Good, let's move on then!
I didn't even know about the car modification thing.
I suspected that years ago but impossible to prove. Also I wondered if it's possible to make small changes to the cars performance to tune up them. Anyway he made a lot of videos with a modified stunts years ago.
Congrats Akoss, now it's official!
Quote from: alanrotoi on April 23, 2015, 01:01:14 AM
I suspected that years ago but impossible to prove. Also I wondered if it's possible to make small changes to the cars performance to tune up them.
Changing car performance is impossible, as any changes would wreck the replay by making the keystrokes to go out of sync. Visual aids are another matter entirely, of course.
Oh, so he just programmed in digital speed-meters?
yes
Well, that's still an unfair advantage. Anyway, screw this whole debate. Let's get back to Stunts and grog. If CTG decides to grow up one day, it would be great to have him back.
Quote from: BonzaiJoe on April 23, 2015, 10:58:46 AM
Well, that's still an unfair advantage. Anyway, screw this whole debate. Let's get back to Stunts and grog. If CTG decides to grow up one day, it would be great to have him back.
Agree!
Quote from: JTK on April 20, 2015, 03:00:59 PM
Whoa - I take a look at the forum each 3 months or so... and today I was surprised: "Show unread posts since last visit" showed only about 30 threads - that's what's happening without CTG, who once (among other reasons) made it easy for me to leave the forum. I couldn't stand his comments to each and every written word anymore. Zak moooonths ago told me to block him, but then I could not understand many forum threads anymore. To me his spams brought the forum and the community down, because it was hard to find some content drops in ocean of spamming...
Hello!
Start making some content drops. Maybe they will not get lost this time.
:D I'd try, if I only had something to say...
CTG has been disqualified from the 2014 season and banned forever from March 2015. But will his results from January & February 2015 remain valid? It is possible that the answer will be the ultimate tiebreaker between Akoss Poo and Duplode...
Let me guess. This will result more beneficial to Akoss than to Dup, isn't it?
Quote from: alanrotoi on November 26, 2015, 09:01:57 PM
Let me guess. This will result more beneficial to Akoss than to Dup, isn't it?
There are two alternative ways to calculate the final results. One is more beneficial to Poo, one to Dup. But for the decision, it shouldn't matter who benefits from it.
The decision was taken when CTG was banned. If not all his results since 2002 should be DQF.
I would not change anything now. It should have been done in March.
Quote from: zaqrack on November 27, 2015, 08:36:20 PM
I would not change anything now. It should have been done in March.
Well, that is the right decision. But in this case, the logical decision is to give CTG back his 2014 results as well. How would it look... disqualifying him after being found guilty, but only for the earlier year, not for the later. I'm saying this as the unreal 'champion' of 2014. Give the title to the one who deserved it the most. If you keep his 2015 results.
I was never good enough to be a real champion. Many 2nd and 3rd places, but nothing more. (Though a meter from me, there is the original Stunts game won at Kalpen 2003.)
Quote from: zaqrack on March 12, 2015, 04:16:18 PM
I prefer not to waste my efforts reviewing the 201 current registered members and make assumptions whether they are ghosts or not. As soon as a sleeping ghost reappears and does damage, or tries to login with several incorrect password attempts, actions will be taken.
I have no interest in acting as a warden trying to keep CTG away from the community at all costs. He is obviously unable to leave. All I want to do is him to leave others in peace.
One day maybe Friker the Slovak ghost reappears so be prepared for some "incorrect password attempts". ;)
BTW Does anyone know how's Mark L. Rivers?
Echoes from the past...
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/Duplode/mvresctt.png)
(source (http://www.lemonamiga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12458))
:)