Today is the census day so all the people who lives in Argentina must stay at home until 18hs GMT-3 and those who likes Stunts must race or build a car. :D
It's not census day across the border, but it might just as well be a nice day for racing :) We will also have our census this year, by the way, in the second semester. It was originally supposed to be done in 2020, but then it was delayed to 2021 by the pandemic, and then delayed again due to government ineptitude.
Quote from: Duplode on May 18, 2022, 11:43:55 PMIt was originally supposed to be done in 2020, but then it was delayed to 2021 by the pandemic, and then delayed again due to government ineptitude.
Hahaha exactly the same here!
Let's see what the numbers give. Everything is so impersonal now, with people filling forms online, that the census data will be more unreliable than ever. Of course, Latin America is especially disorganised, but I think this problem happens throughout the world. Technology should make measurements more precise, yet..... ;D
What and why is census day??
Quote from: Daniel3D on May 21, 2022, 07:12:41 AM
What and why is census day??
Counting people :D
Interestingly, it seems that the Netherlands stopped running census 25-30 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_and_housing_censuses_by_country#Netherlands
O. I lived in the believe that every country just had a digital population database and just didn't need to do this anymore... I really didn't know it was still a thing.
I am both proud and kind of shocked that i love in one of only 5 countries in the world can do it digitally. :o
I am a strong advocate for personal privacy, so I do agree that census procedures are kind of invasive, but at the same time, how can people complain about census and use a cell phone or social networks? It doesn't make any sense, ha, ha.
As regards accuracy, the digital matter, in theory, shouldn't change it. But "shouldn't" isn't the same as "doesn't". The problem with every digital paperwork nowadays is that technology is not being exploited for precission and efficacy, but instead, just for making processes cheaper by hiring less and less people. This results in a huge loss of accuracy and efficacy. Technology is not to blame about this, of course. It's people using the technology. For example, it's very convenient that, besides going downtown to buy something, you have the option of looking at a catalog online (such as Mercado Libre's, eBay's or Amazon's) and then having the item delivered at your door. On the other hand, the likelyhood of this process failing is of course, much larger, simply because a lot fewer people are involved. If things work well, it shouldn't fail, but when there is a problem, there is nobody there to assess it and the final consumer ends up having to write a complain online, wait for an answer and go through a lot of annoyance until somebody finally fixes the problem. e-banking works well when it works well. When it doesn't, you don't have the chance of telling the bank person that you have a problem and instead of solving it in 5 minutes, you have to wait at least 48 hours. This is what I mean. For this reason, I expect the measurements to be completely unreliable.
A beautiful speech.
But which measurements are unreliable?
About the Dutch way. I looked into it.
My basic personal data (name, adres, birthdate, social security number) is stored only at county level for those living there. (Children and those not taxable are not know to the government)
So once a while the statistics of the local base administration is sent to the buro of statistics.
So, every registered person is counted.
A pretty simple but effective way.
And the government of the US. Remember they spyied all their beloved European allies and leaders ;D
Quote from: alanrotoi on May 22, 2022, 03:20:56 PM
And the government of the US. Remember they spyied all their beloved European allies and leaders ;D
i read about that, I believe that it was the Dutch intelligence that found out about it.
But for my personal info, I'm not worried. The Dutch systems are relatively well protected.
but also fragmented. So very tedious to get something useful. (data management is well managed but not really modernized)
Quote from: Daniel3D on May 22, 2022, 03:31:34 PMBut for my personal info, I'm not worried. The Dutch systems are relatively well protected.
Aren't our systems usually just outsourced to whatever French company or something will store that data for us?
Quote from: Overdrijf on May 22, 2022, 08:13:25 PM
Quote from: Daniel3D on May 22, 2022, 03:31:34 PMBut for my personal info, I'm not worried. The Dutch systems are relatively well protected.
Aren't our systems usually just outsourced to whatever French company or something will store that data for us?
Could be. I don't know actually.
I know that the police and Dutch intelligence have everything in ownership.
The police datacenters are impressive. 4 of them. Each setup contains everything. So 4 copies. Only one directly active. No outside connections.
The whole nation wide system is one isolated network. Not even a VPN.
To get access you need to physically find a data connection (or break into a police station) have the right encryption algorithms and know the security protocols.
possible password: 1234, qwer or asd :)
In Hungary, the census could have been in 2021 (it takes place in a 10 yrs interval, last one: 2011). Due to the pandemic, it has been postponed to autumn 2022. I think electronic data is less reliable than giving personal information to interviewers. The distribution and change in percentage of ethnic and religous groups are also interesting things to be investigated.
I think the eletronic version of the census is unreliable simply because people can fill whatever they want there and there is no actual person looking at them. Of course, they could also lie in front of their faces, but some things are evident when you're looking at the person and the place they live in. Besides, people feel more comfortable to enter bogus online than to say it to a person face to face. For certain, lots of data can be obtained without the need of a census. For instance, if you have an ID and you have to update it from time to time, then you're being counted already. Same goes for driving licenses and other similar things. So not saying that we won't have the data we need, just that perhaps the whole digital census is useless and if we're not going to make it personally, not making it at all could be just as reliable.
Yes, governments spy on us. The US is famous for it, through PRISM, but other governments do the same thing, only they haven't been publicly caught in the act. They're all the same in that regard. In terms of privacy, they won't provide. It's us who're supposed to work on it.