The live race calendar for 2022 (https://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=3867.0) was a great success: we had three well attended and exciting events, a record in recent years!
Do we want to run something similar next year? Or do we want to try
four events this time?
Spacing them evenly during the year:
- three events: first weekend of April, July and October
- four events: first weekend of March and August, 3rd weekend of May and October
[edit] Calendar here!
- 4th/5th of March - Alan Rotoi + ?
- 20th/21st of May - dreadnaut + Cas
- 5th/6th of August - KyLiE + ?
- 21st/22nd of October - Overdrijf + ?
I'm happy with four events, but if that means that less people will participate in one or more events, three might be better. We'll have to wait and see what others think.
Quote from: KyLiE on December 10, 2022, 01:24:17 AMI'm happy with four events, but if that means that less people will participate in one or more events, three might be better. We'll have to wait and see what others think.
With four events the chance of me participating increase.
If I read it correctly, KyLiE means the chance of participating in each event, not in any event. With three, every single one is special and we are likely to have "full participation". With more events, pipsqueaks might skip thinking "oh, well, I'll join the next one", leading to low attendance in each event.
I agree that's a risk, I can't tell if going from 3 to 4 would make a different in that direction.
Let's go with 4. A live race for every season: Winter, Autumn, Spring, Summer.
Quote from: dreadnaut on December 10, 2022, 11:45:10 AMIf I read it correctly, KyLiE means the chance of participating in each event, not in any event.
That's exactly what I meant. In my case, I'll make the same effort to participate regardless of how many events there are. However, you also have to consider the availability of people to organise each event.
Quote from: KyLiE on December 10, 2022, 02:30:26 PMQuote from: dreadnaut on December 10, 2022, 11:45:10 AMIf I read it correctly, KyLiE means the chance of participating in each event, not in any event.
That's exactly what I meant. In my case, I'll make the same effort to participate regardless of how many events there are. However, you also have to consider the availability of people to organise each event.
As long as the race is in the afternoon here the chance is slim unfortunately. Family matters first.
Maybe the solution is to have two events at one time and the other two at different time. That'd increase the number of pipsqueaks that would participate in at least one event, but yes, there's a risk of less participation per event.
Well, we've tried three. Let's try four and see what happens. If participation is low, the following year, we go back to three.
Quote from: Daniel3D on December 10, 2022, 02:48:39 PMQuote from: KyLiE on December 10, 2022, 02:30:26 PMQuote from: dreadnaut on December 10, 2022, 11:45:10 AMIf I read it correctly, KyLiE means the chance of participating in each event, not in any event.
That's exactly what I meant. In my case, I'll make the same effort to participate regardless of how many events there are. However, you also have to consider the availability of people to organise each event.
As long as the race is in the afternoon here the chance is slim unfortunately. Family matters first.
Same here. I usually do not have time in front of the computer before 8.30 pm. :)
Btw, did you use replay handling in last year's live racing?
Quote from: Argammon on December 10, 2022, 11:03:00 PMQuote from: Daniel3D on December 10, 2022, 02:48:39 PMQuote from: KyLiE on December 10, 2022, 02:30:26 PMQuote from: dreadnaut on December 10, 2022, 11:45:10 AMIf I read it correctly, KyLiE means the chance of participating in each event, not in any event.
That's exactly what I meant. In my case, I'll make the same effort to participate regardless of how many events there are. However, you also have to consider the availability of people to organise each event.
As long as the race is in the afternoon here the chance is slim unfortunately. Family matters first.
Same here. I usually do not have time in front of the computer before 8.30 pm. :)
Btw, did you use replay handling in last year's live racing?
Well, RH is possible to a small extend. You get 12 minutes to drive, save and upload a 8 minute race. So there is a bit of room for crash Recovery but not much more.
On top of the "Le Stunts" events we could also schedule some session on Hunterboy344's new server. As I understand it the server is always ready, you just have to wake it up and you can drive. Could be fun as a sort of "low organization" addition to the live race roster.
Copying from the Zakstunts message archive, november 28th:
QuoteGreat news, everyone; the Stunts Online server is now on all of the time! However, before connecting, the server must first be "woken" by opening https://stunts-server.hunterboy344.com/ in a new browser tab. After doing that and waiting until the page says "Upgrade Required", you can simply put in "stunts-server.hunterboy344.com" into the server box on https://stunts.hunterboy344.com/ to connect!
Let's bring this thread back on track ;D
Let's go with four races for 2023! These would be the dates:
- 4th/5th of March - ? + ?
- 20th/21st of May - ? + ?
- 5th/6th of August - ? + ?
- 21st/22nd of October - ? + ?
Any volunteers for organising races? As for the past season, it would be great to have two people assigned to each event, to lessen the load ensure coverage if life happens.
The March event can follow the previous schedule (midday on Sunday in Europe), but let's investigate a different time slot too. I think we've had some success with "late Saturday evening in Europe" in the past.
I can do the May one or the October one otherwise
QuoteThe March event can follow the previous schedule (midday on Sunday in Europe), but let's investigate a different time slot too. I think we've had some success with "late Saturday evening in Europe" in the past.
I have either my family or work in the day/afternoon so with
"late Saturday evening in Europe" i can guarantee participating. Otherwise i can guarantee not participating.. 8)
Edit::
That sounds a bit harsh. But it is the unfortunat truth.
I think that, if programmed with enough time, I can do most schedules, but being months in advance, I cannot tell right now. For sure, the best would be to not have the same schedule on all events, so that everyone can participate at least in one
I would like to organize a live race... hmm March?
Can you please sign me up for the race on the 5th/6th of August?
I can't tell with so much time in advance, but my mother's birthday is August 7th, so there is a chance, depending on many things, that I miss the 5th/6th of August event. The other ones will probably be OK. I will try to participate in all.
I may or may not have an interesting variation on the concept, depending on how much "learning where to go" people are willing to do, and how far I can stretch this 2 minute race I currently have.
Thank you Alan and KyLiE! I've added a race calendar to the first post of the thread.
Let's run two on last year's schedule, and new on the "evening in Europe" time that Daniel suggested. Which is which... depends on the organisers! Still a few slots empty ;)
Quote from: Overdrijf on January 22, 2023, 01:00:07 PMI may or may not have an interesting variation on the concept, depending on how much "learning where to go" people are willing to do, and how far I can stretch this 2 minute race I currently have.
Tell us more!
Quote from: dreadnaut on January 22, 2023, 01:11:53 PMTell us more!
It's a 3 lap race with a slightly diffent route for each lap. Routes that people would have to sort of know before the race, no room for changing multiple defining features in the surprise edit.
Ones I've gone through it with the comb of practicality there might be 2 features left that could survive:
1 a joker lap, rallycross style. A longer route you have to take ones in the race.
2 an actual finish, where if you reach the split to the fake start line and actual start line after the 8 minutes are up you have to come in for your finish. Not sure yet what would be fair time wise.
Quote from: Overdrijf on January 22, 2023, 07:23:02 PMQuote from: dreadnaut on January 22, 2023, 01:11:53 PMTell us more!
It's a 3 lap race with a slightly diffent route for each lap. Routes that people would have to sort of know before the race, no room for changing multiple defining features in the surprise edit.
Ones I've gone through it with the comb of practicality there might be 2 features left that could survive:
1 a joker lap, rallycross style. A longer route you have to take ones in the race.
2 an actual finish, where if you reach the split to the fake start line and actual start line after the 8 minutes are up you have to come in for your finish. Not sure yet what would be fair time wise.
If you need people to test the idea let me know. We meet and race.
You know what, I can do October. I figure I can make this work. Just thought of another gimmick I can try.
I had called for the May event somet time ago, or the October one if it were not possible, but I see that I wasn't scheduled... Anyway, I guess I could do the fourth, although I've no problem to colaborate for another one
Quote from: Overdrijf on January 22, 2023, 07:23:02 PMQuote from: dreadnaut on January 22, 2023, 01:11:53 PMTell us more!
It's a 3 lap race with a slightly diffent route for each lap. Routes that people would have to sort of know before the race, no room for changing multiple defining features in the surprise edit.
How about a 4 leaf clover principle. You can make each leaf the same, resulting in just a 4 lap race. Or you can add slight variations.
Quote from: Cas on January 23, 2023, 01:48:38 AMI had called for the May event somet time ago, or the October one if it were not possible, but I see that I wasn't scheduled...
Whops, I had missed that, sorry Cas! I put you down for May with me, but let me know if you prefer a different one.
And with Overdrijf in October, we have all races covered by at least one person. The second slot is still empty for a few races, so volunteers are still welcome! Pairing up is a great way to discover what goes being organising an event ;)
No problem! Sure, we'll prepare something for May! :)
I little idea tweak that may make the live race more interesting for editing.
(Very similar if not the same as opted before)
Race for X amount of laps resulting in approximately 8 minutes (track designer determines the amount)
That way we could make an edit with all cars crossing the finish line in sequence.
And you have a clear final time..
The start finish should be easy to reach though. Maybe a pit lane idea..
Yes... in fact, the experimental platform I made for Le Stunts estimates the scoreboard order that way: it uses the lap time of the last s/f line crossing and the number of laps instead of what part of the last lap you are, which is more subjective. It almost always results in the same scoreboard
Alternatively, we might ask pipsqueaks to complete the first lap after the 8 minutes mark. An advantage is that the designer wouldn't have to guess laptimes in advance. A disadvantage is that a luck factor might be introduced, in that crossing the finish line at 7:59 would require one to drive another full lap. One workaround for this problem would be making the deadline relative, so that the deadline for each pipsqueak becomes 12 minutes plus some tolerance which increases with the length of the replay past 8:00.
Quote from: Duplode on January 28, 2023, 05:49:26 PMAlternatively, we might ask pipsqueaks to complete the first lap after the 8 minutes mark. An advantage is that the designer wouldn't have to guess laptimes in advance. A disadvantage is that a luck factor might be introduced, in that crossing the finish line at 7:59 would require one to drive another full lap. One workaround for this problem would be making the deadline relative, so that the deadline for each pipsqueak becomes 12 minutes plus some tolerance which increases with the length of the replay past 8:00.
We could use the lap time as calculated by bliss with a predetermined car and driver from the available data.
For the time we could allow a minute for every minute the replay is longer.
So past 8 minutes you have 12.
Past 9 you get 13,
With the set amount of full laps, automatic ranking can be made (and manual verification)
Using the Bliss times as references could work -- as they are OWOOT times, they should be usable as a conservative estimate.
Expanding a bit on my suggestion of deadlines with tolerances, to keep things as simple as possible it might make sense to keep the 12:8 ratio, and use windows of 20 seconds so that the division comes out nicely:
Total time by räcer Deadline
------------------- --------
8:00.00 -- 8:19.95 12:30
8:20.00 -- 8:39.95 13:00
8:40.00 -- 8:59.95 13:30
9:00.00 -- 9:19.95 14:00
9:20.00 -- 9:39.95 14:30
9:40.00 -- 9:59.95 15:00
(Note that I'd rather err on the side of giving people a few seconds more than to make the deadline stricter.)
Hello pipsqueaks!
I have an idea for a different live racing format which I would prefer over the LeStunts one. That does, of course, not mean it is objectively better.
Here it is:
- Track is published in advance so that pipsqueaks can practice it.
- Pipsqueaks meet in the chatroom, someone posts a modified version of the track, and the countdown begins.
- Pipsqueaks start driving and start a 15 minutes DOSBOX video.
- The pipsqueak who drives the fastest lap wins. RH is strictly forbidden.
- Pipsqueaks upload their DOSBOX video -somewhere- no later than 17 minutes after the countdown started.
Voila, we have a working NORH competition, assuming I did not forget anything. Please help me out to fix the last details! :)
It would work if the main objective is to restrinct completely the RH which in live races is not much more than a crash recovery
I think the adrenaline of the consecutive laps gives a particular taste to the live races. In fact, I would add an extra minute to have a 9 minutes race and maybe 14 or 15 minutes for prepairing.
I would not loose the consecutive laps as a standard but we could try your idea as well.
So you have 15 minutes to drive a track of x length as fast as you can. You may restart anytime but have to start at the beginning again. So your in-game highscore is your time.
I like the idea. But I would have 2 problems.
I don't think my computer can handle 15 minutes of gameplay without performance issues and the resulting file is probably to big to upload in 2 minutes.
With
Quote from: alanrotoi on March 17, 2023, 01:47:14 PMI would not loose the consecutive laps as a standard but we could try your idea as well.
It would be impossible to do consecutive laps unless you have a really boring track.
It would be more like a GAR video of Marco but with Free driving rules.
Although maybe we should add a checkpoint system as well for argammon his idea
Thanks for the replies Alanrotoi and Daniel. :)
@Daniel3D: I don't think performance issues would be a problem for most of us, correct?! In your case, I would be totally ok with you just uploading your replay file.
These best-lap-in-15-minutes rules are fine as a racing format. They are closer than Le Stunts to the traditional hotseat live racing format (5 attempts per pipsqueak). While I really like the Le Stunts format, it could be good to try out alternatives.
The main issue that should require careful thought, though, is the operational part. I'd say the greatest thing about the Le Stunts format is that all you need to take part is doing a replay and uploading it in time. Requiring videos would make everything more complicated: now one has to make sure DOSBox is correctly set up for recording and that the computer can handle it (as
@Daniel3D notes), start the recording, drive, possibly save the replays (for analysis, rerecording and archiving), have a place for uploading (YouTube? Dropbox? Personal site?) and, if a cloud service is used, count on it being helpful (for instance, YouTube can take several minutes to process an upload). All in all, it makes things quite a bit less accessible.
If we're going to explore live racing rules based on single-lap NoRH, I think the way to go is using some kind of controlled environment, as in
@HunterBoy344 's Stunts Online project, which automates some of the steps to make it as easy as possible for the pipsqueaks. (Cc'ing
@Erik Barros , who has been thinking about similar questions lately.)
Thanks
@Duplode, you are raising some valid points. An easy-to-use server that prevents RH may be the best option. As long as that is not available, I suggest the following fix to address your main concern:
- Everybody uploads their replays. Then, only the winner uploads the video.
Would that work? I don't think taking a video is difficult as long as you do not have the hassle to find and upload it. :-)
I agree with Duplode. Uploading a video is complex, sometimes very slow and requires relying on a 3rd party platform. Anyway, if the replay has to be uploaded very quickly, there's not much one can do with RH. That is, we would have to assume RH is allowed, but in practice, it couldn't be well exploited. This is what already happens with LeStunts. It's RH, but in reality, it's not.
On the other hand, something like HunterBoy344's system would solve for NoRH. In fact, if the purpose is only verification, it doesn't have to be a complete online system like that. It's enough that each pipsqueak stream their controls live and one computer be grabbing all the streams. This doesn't need to be reproduced while it's being played. It can just be stored and then analysed.
There's this part I don't know: how to create a channel in DOSBox to stream information out? With this base, the rest should be easy.
The video of the last two races from March 2023 is out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBUxgUVJIC8
Counting down the days to this month's live event.
Me too ;D ;D ;D
I won't be there for this event, hopefully. (Hopefully because of the alternative.) But I wish you all a fast race and a good time!
Even if it will be an afternoon event?
Even if it's on Thursday morning or Sunday evening. My weekend is blocked for kayaking.
Quote from: Overdrijf on May 08, 2023, 05:24:08 PMEven if it's on Thursday morning or Sunday evening. My weekend is blocked for kayaking.
That sounds like a great weekend! Both times are a unlikely though, as Sunday evening would be Monday morning in Australia...
Quote from: dreadnaut on May 09, 2023, 11:34:55 PMQuote from: Overdrijf on May 08, 2023, 05:24:08 PMEven if it's on Thursday morning or Sunday evening. My weekend is blocked for kayaking.
That sounds like a great weekend! Both times are a unlikely though, as Sunday evening would be Monday morning in Australia...
But your can't go kayaking in the dark. So bring a laptop and make a WiFi hotspot of your phone if there's no internet. And race.
No excuses 8)
Race Anywhere! Another cool name for a tournament, ha, ha ;D
The next live race is called Losing Grip. Please see the dedicated forum topic (https://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?topic=4153.0) for further information.