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Stunts - the Game => Stunts Chat => Topic started by: alanrotoi on February 03, 2023, 08:03:51 PM

Title: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: alanrotoi on February 03, 2023, 08:03:51 PM
Hi! February track is out! Based on the times uploaded looks like a long track. Mooh, the star of that competition, showed a gif going under the loop wich is ok and possible with a fast car like DTM BMW even without RH.
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Duplode on February 03, 2023, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on February 03, 2023, 08:03:51 PMMooh, the star of that competition, showed a gif going under the loop wich is ok and possible with a fast car like DTM BMW even without RH.

I think Mooh was being sarcastic there. The (Google-translated) rules say "no shortcuts to obstacles (e.g. looping and corkscrew driving through in any case)" (original: "keine Hindernisse abkürzen (z.B. Looping und Korkenzieher in jedem Fall durch fahren)").

Anyway, I'm going to post an initial lap there in the evening  ;)   
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: dreadnaut on February 03, 2023, 08:41:26 PM
Are you going to overdo it? ;D

Link, by the way: https://dosreloaded.de/forum/index.php?thread/5995-4d-sports-driving-stunts-jahrescontest-2023/
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: alanrotoi on February 03, 2023, 08:50:09 PM
I don't know. The top time always is kinda suspicious for noRH and since the rules of the competition are ambiguous it is possible to incur in cheating. I mean you only have to upload a screenshot of your time in the score so impossible to check if you were RH or used shortcuts.
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Duplode on February 03, 2023, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: dreadnaut on February 03, 2023, 08:41:26 PMAre you going to overdo it? ;D

Maybe -- I'd like to find out how strong those Mooh times really are. Also, Cpl. Rex Barkin and struuunz at least are pretty strong pipsqueaks who could hold their own in, say, R4K.
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Argammon on February 03, 2023, 10:51:37 PM
They are saying their competition is based on trust. It is supposed to be like when a group of friends compete. I get that.


What I do not understand is the rule saying a high score files must be posted as a "proof". These can easily be edited 8) and do not prove anything.

To be consistent, it should be sufficient to just post your time without screenshot.
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: alanrotoi on February 03, 2023, 11:03:04 PM
noRH, no paint pure live driving. See ya in ZCT259. :-*  :-*

(https://forum.stunts.hu/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=10505;image)
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Duplode on February 06, 2023, 11:33:48 PM
Track limits  :D

load_041.png
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Cas on February 07, 2023, 06:20:32 AM
I suppose they have no problem with contact OWOOT, ha, ha. I mean, we're a lot more strict with verification and we allow it
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Daniel3D on February 07, 2023, 08:09:46 AM
Quote from: Duplode on February 06, 2023, 11:33:48 PMTrack limits  :D

load_041.png
Can you do that with a flooded track???
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: alanrotoi on February 07, 2023, 01:28:01 PM
I think not. Anyway the car sinks before it's OWOOT.
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Daniel3D on February 07, 2023, 02:34:19 PM
So, the track is actually narrower than the visual
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: alanrotoi on February 07, 2023, 02:55:12 PM
The OWOOT rule allows you to go over the grass even if the grass slows you down. GAR rules are a bit more permisive as far as I remember it's "one pixel on/over the road". Both cases the car could be slowed by the grass.
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Duplode on February 07, 2023, 03:00:31 PM
Quote from: Daniel3D on February 07, 2023, 08:09:46 AMCan you do that with a flooded track???

Almost certainly not (though it depends on the exact position of the physical wheels). On the other hand, even a few more centimeters to the left should be enough for not sinking, by ensuring two wheels are inside the track.
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Overdrijf on February 07, 2023, 03:30:10 PM
As has pretty much been said already: A flooded track is a bit stricter than having one pixel over the track, also because the physical model on most cars is only as long as the wheelbase, not the visual car. On the other hand a flooded track does prevent grass slowdown. Driving on the outside of a slalom for instance is a typical flooded line. No slowdown.

I enjoy flooded tracks for OWOOT particularly because it is a bit stricter, which means you just never have to check your replay. If you didn't sink, it was valid.
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Duplode on February 14, 2023, 02:50:28 PM
An update: after I posted, just for fun, a GIF version of that track limits edge case image to the competition thread, mooh (who is not the competition manager) suggested that should not be valid, arguing for an all-wheels-on-track interpretation of the no shortcuts rule. Some of the forum regulars there were very unhappy about the ensuing discussion about rules, to the point we felt with little choice but to step back from the contest in order to avoid further escalation.

Though not all of the forum regulars there see the situation in the same way, I feel a disconnect of sorts with those that resented the events. I respect disliking rule-lawyering, and wanting to have a casual contest just for fun with your mates. However, clear-cut and equitable rules are part of what makes a contest fun to me. You don't have to bring out the unabridged 3rd edition of the GAR Handbook, or to disqualify casual participants for understeering off the track in a tricky corner. All that is needed is a predictable interpretation of the rules with reasonably uniform strictness. Otherwise you risk having some people walking on eggshells not being fully sure of what is valid, and some other people working nonstop to find loopholes and twist the interpretation to their own liking.
Title: Re: dosreloaded.de Jahrescontest 2023 (competition!)
Post by: Cas on February 14, 2023, 09:16:56 PM
I'm under the impression that this is a case like many I've come across in my life, in which a person or a group of persons feels attacked when a change in the way they've been doing things is presented, let alone proposed. They tend to feel this as an imposition. Humans naturally dislike impositions whether the idea is good or bad and will have a bias towards rejection unless they find that most of their peers support the new idea, in which case, they're more likely to follow suit.

When you're completely new and arrive at, say, ZakStunts, never having been on a Stunts tournament, you're a single person and you arrive at the system instead of the other way around, so you tend to accept it, like we've all done, because it doesn't feel imposed, even though it's the same rules.

I hope the folks at dosreloaded.de can understand that imposition has never been an intention. I've known this community for a very long time and I wouldn't be here if it weren't quite the contrary from an imposing kind. I regret that our contact hasn't gone as well as we imagined. We here are actually happy that another community exists that shares with us something as unique and not easy to find as love for Stunts. Knowing of their existence, how could we possibly not have wanted to establish contact and try to strengthen ties?

Have you guys watched the movie "Arrivals"?  Anyway :)