Messages

Thanks, Duplode, for creating this topic and thank you guys for joining again. I haven't been checking the replays or writing here or racing in ZakStunts these last days because I'm on a trip. I'm currently in Puerto Madryn, in the Patagonia, South of Argentina. I will be returning home this Sunday and I'll be active again. I tried to post a message in R4K and discovered a bug. It looks like the session system conflicts with NoScript (a Firefox plugin that I use) and even when I enable the site IP, I still can't remain logged in (which did work from my home computer). When I tried to write a message, it not only logged off, but also deleted another message Leo had sent, so I have to make my code blocker-proof. Another thing I want to do is develop a NoRH verification system so that a handicap can be given to benefit NoRH replays.

This track, Dubai, I made very quickly, so any comments on it are welcome

[OWOOT]

Less than two weeks remain till the end of R4I (which is due next 28 November, at 00:00 UTC, that is, non-inclusive) and I'm very happy that many of you guys have participated. I'm thinking about what I should do once the race is finished.

• I would most likely continue in an OWOOT-based style, although the particular rules may change. I can be more or less strict on it, but I would like to know your preferences.
• As regards NoRH, I want to implement a system so that you don't have to use two pipsqueak names. I could create two scoreboards for now. I would like to make a single scoreboard and grant 10% for NoRH replays, but in order to do that, I think it's essential to first provide a method of verification. What do you guys think?
• In the previous thread about R4I, I proposed a variation of OWOOT called NAWOG. Also, Alan Rotoi proposed a hunting concept. If there would be interested in these things, I would consider it too, same as any other concept that would be proposed.
• I could retain the name Race For Immortality despite the fact that only this particular race will go to Bliss estimation scoreboards. Otherwise, I could come up with a new name. Opinions?

So... has the hunting competition project never been implemented?   The deadline for R4I is only a couple of weeks ahead and I'd like to define what would be best to have for this summer... (winter for the guys in Europe).

Another thing I had been thinking is that the project to restart the permanent competition records is something I could help in doing. I could start with OWOOT records for the original tracks, or handle OWOOT, OWOOT+NoRH and Free/Zak-style records for each of them.... or I could just take care of the OWOOT records and leave the others for the ZakStunts site. We can arrange that with Dreadnaut.

Yeah, I'm really a newbie with websites. I more or less handle PHP because I'm a programmer, so anything that's algorithmic is comfortable to me, but if you want more design and less scripting, then you may actually find helper tools comfortable, only I wouldn't know what to recommend you. But again, plain HTML and CSS are so, so simple, that it really is worth it to learn them. Embedding a video is as simple as putting the address between the corresponding tags.

Leo, I don't know about software for developing sites, but in my case, I write the HTML, CSS and PHP directly and it's not hard and you can easily embed videos. Take a look at w3schools.com. HTML5 with CSS3 give you virtually everything. I just need practice with designing, but the capabilities are great.

Remember that the sole purpose of the NAWOG basic rule is to be able to forget about penalty time. A strict OWOOT could be used instead with similar results. NAWOG, in my opinion, is the least restrictive way in which a race can be held with penalty time being ignored. It's the no-penalty-time rule that gives the race its interesting aspect and this is not possible in ZakStunts, for example, on a track built on water, since say, jumping from a path to another would almost always result in penalty time.

That is indeed a very good concept. Yeah, I would like to implement whatever racing style really attracts the interest of pipsqueaks. The objective of my NAWOG idea would be that one could ignore penalty time completely, but in order to do this, some degree of OWOOT is necessary (so that one doesn't just go around the finish line) and wrong way driving must be forbidden (so that one doesn't just turn around). Without penalty time to worry about, one could take every possible path, including turning in crossroads or jumping from a path to another one near. Maybe a set of rules like this could be used instead of ISA for chasing.

Only thing that I'm concerned about is that the red track section would have to be very, very simple, to ensure the opponent will not crash accidentally. So, for the track to be fun racing, the length of that section should also be carefully calculated. I would say the red section is actually divided in two parts:

• Red section before the yellow section rejoins: This part can be boring, because the pipsqueak will never drive it. It should be as long as possible, but not so long that the pipsqueak can reach the second section before the opponent.
• Red section after the yellow section rejoins: Ideally, the pipsqueak should reach the prey within the first tiles of this section. It should consist mostly on straightways and simple turns, to minimise the chance of the pipsqueak jumping over or otherwise accidentally passing the prey, unless this is precisely what we want.

Anyway, many things, we won't know until we try this. It'd be good to estimate how much faster a human pipsqueak can be than a CPU opponent.

Thanks for your understanding, Alan. I already deleted the replay from the list. I still would like to write a complete set of rules on the page. I'll do that when I finish today's work.
So basically, the rules for this race are based on two principles: semantic OWOOT (i.e.: exactly what it means) and "all stunts to be performed". Everything else derives from those two.

My plan is not keeping this same set of rules for future tracks. I have a new modality in mind, which Duplode already knows about. A much, much more free one, still OWOOT-like. Now it's an experimental idea, so discussing it would be good!

For future tracks:
Mi idea, is (perhaps temporarily) called "NAWOG" = Not All Wheels On Grass. Meaning exactly that. As long as not all four wheels are touching grass, you're OK. So, if you're in the air, you're free. If you manage to drive on water, that's OK. On top of that, penalty time would be irrelevant. If you get penalty time, it would not be computed. The NAWOG rule would take care of your not shortening the track too much. No penalty system is necessary. Finally, to make sure no trivial solutions are found, driving wrong way is not allowed. Tracks would be created with the effects of these three rules in mind

Any thought about this concept will be appreciated

Hey!  Sorry, guys, I hadn't seen then thread lately.

I apologise about the public-replay issue. I originally developed the ability to make replays public in case they really should be public for some reason. Rejection of a replay, instead, currently causes the deletion of the replay from the list and from the server. Then when I checked Alan's replay I realised by rejecting, I might be making it also unavailable to himself and that the system should have something to allow one to see their own replays and receive a private message in case of errors. At that point, mistakenly, as I see, I thought the best I could do was making it public. AbuRaf's original replay was also made public, but when he submitted the second one, I manually deleted the older replay. Only about a day elapsed and apparently, nobody got to see it.

I'm currently working on a better interface that will include private messaging, ability to see your own replays or make the public if you wish, better handling of rejected replays, among other things. I'm sorry about the inconvenience. I'll now remove the replay from the list.

About the under-the-tunnel rule, I'll explain myself too:

• I originally thought of OWOOT the way it was in Paleke's WSC, where among other things, driving over a tunnel roof was allowed
• On last track, when racing GAR, I used this assumption to drive over a tunnel roof, which caused my replay to be invalid, as Marco pointed out
• While driving on the roof is textually "over the road", I understood Marco's point as that "performing all stunts" would include tunnels, since the way of executing them would be to drive under the roof. For this reason, I decided to apply that rule to this race
• Still, I personally don't have a problem with not using that rule, but since other pipsqueaks have already submitted their replays with it, I just couldn't take it back. For future races, I will consider what's really best and make it totally clear in the rules

Again, really sorry about the confusion and discomfort.

EDIT: I'm currently working. As soon as I finish, I'll update the table and clear out the rules on the page. Slalom blocks are not to be passed through either, but speed-ups are allowed as long as you don't go off-track. This is because going through a slalom makes you not "perform the stunt", even though you're still on the road. Speeding up on a boulevard does not prevent you from executing a stunt. As long as a wheel remains or or over the asphalt, it's OK. You can't, however, drive with all wheels on the middle of the boulevard.

I like this track. When I first tried it with the Jaguar, I thought it was best suited for slow cars and that as soon as I tried it with the Lambo or the Skyline, I was going to get a huge difference from my previous replay, but then I did and no. It's very well balanced and it really is difficult to make that difference. This is a track that mostly requires skillful driving and speed becomes a secondary matter. Changing a jumping or turning angle can save the second much better than playing with the gears. Great design, Leo!

["Race for Immortality"]

As I've mentioned in ZakStunts's chat, I've created a single-race parallel tournament. It's called "Race for Immortality" (Copyright(C) - Duplode 2016 ) because the results obtained from this race will be placed in Bliss Editor time estimation table in the "famous pipsqueaks" section. Because the results need to serve the purpose of measuring the length of a track and of estimating the time it'd take for each famous pipsqueak on other tracks, this race has to be OWOOT (otherwise, shortcuts would make this estimation completely random). Also, since time estimations in Bliss are based on Porsche March Indy, this is the chosen car for the race. I think the track I made is probably too hard for NoRH, but if you dare try it that way, it would be very interesting to have both results

To join the tournament, go to the Bliss racing website and register your pipsqueak name and password near the bottom of the page. Download the track and race it until you obtain a valid replay, as usual, then post it by entering your pipsqueak name and password and uploading the replay just above the pipsqueak registration box.

How the high score table works: Your time will automatically be submitted as "pending" meaning the verification is pending. If you submit any other replay while your current one is pending, it will be replaced with the new one, even if it is worse. When I come online, I'll go to the administration panel and check the replays. If a replay is valid, I'll set it as "verified", which you will be able to see in the scoreboard. At this point, if you submit another replay, both will be visible. It is only your pending replay that will be replaced if you send another one. Once I verify the new replay, it will become verified and the older one will be removed from the table.

Specific rules: You must race with Porsche March Indy, either manual or automatic. This race is OWOOT, meaning exactly that (one wheel on or over the track at all times). The "wheel" of a corkscrew or loop are considered part of the track, as well as the pavement inside a tunnel, so these stunts must be executed and can't be skipped. You can, however, jump over the boulevard in the middle of the highway as long as one wheel remains on or over the pavement. Going through slalom "stones" is not allowed. Penalty time is not allowed either. It would ruin the purpose of measuring for which this track was designed. Replay handling is allowed, but read below.

About replay handling: Because replay handling does not mess with the stunt timings, it is allowed. However, it would be very interesting to see the differences between RH and NoRH. If you are going to race with NoRH, register as pipsqueak name + "NoRH". If you will race with both systems, create two pipsqueak profiles. For example, I will be "Cas" and "Cas NoRH". Post your replays with the corresponding pipsqueak name. In the future, I may adapt the system to better handle these things, if there's another race.

Finally, I will feel very honoured if the legends of the Stunts community participate in my race   Just like the Bliss editor, this race is made for you, guys, so if there's anything you'd like to suggest or criticise, do it.

I'll switch to reading that file instead, then, so that any future HTML updates on the site won't break communication with Bliss

Thanks, Dreadnaut!  I didn't know that one. It certainly is a lot simpler than the HTML. Only parsing the paths would be more complicated, but since that is a constant, I wouldn't need to do that part.

Is this file always present and does it always point to the current track?  If you ever make changes to the website (which could break Bliss parsing the HTML), will this file still have the same structure, so I can rely on it instead of the HTML?

If I would ever not be present to update Bliss and you would need to make changes to the site that would break the communication between Bliss and ZakStunts, you can still use "Bliss Tournament Protocol", like it's described in the manual.txt file. Instead of entering zak.stunts.hu for the link (which would result in Bliss trying to parse the HTML, or json, if I update it), enter btp:zak.stunts.hu and it will use BTP like it were any other tournament site.

Hey... any news of this idea?  It's a really good one!  I think ideally, it should be exactly as proposed by Dreadnaut on the first post, with the add-on by Zak of the additional track being voted among the tracks of the year. I would add that only pipsqueaks that participated in at least a certain number of the track that year could vote. Keeping the closed ones?   Mmm... if many people want them, OK, but I don't think that's necessary.

[Bliss 2.4.4 beta]

New update... almost finishing...

Officially, the name of the editor is changed from Cas-Stunts to Bliss and this version can almost be considered complete!

Bliss 2.4.4 beta
Download this latest version

Lots of new features and bug fixes!

Most important features and bug fixes:

• Shortcuts for all track elements!  Also, press the space bar and start typing the name of an item to find it quickly
• An internal registry recognises original tracks
• Raw format, plus fixes in the way the other two formats are handled. Bliss will always first try to find an overlay, then fall back to a companion file
• ENTER on selection has been enhanced to support more types of closed-circuit and can be used to fill a region with scenery
• Selecting a region with the keyboard is now possible!
• Coordinates for the keyboard cursor
• New documentation
• Deleting a selected region with DEL can be configured to modify only track, only terrain or both, like cutting and pasting
• Some conflicts regarding undoing and redoing in some situations were corrected
• Companion flies for split format were being searched for at the home directory instead of at the directory where the track file is

I would say the most worked-on area in this update has been keyboard-based editing, but there are many "invisible things" that have been enhanced or fixed. Hope you guys like it. This is likely the last update before the final, stable version. I consider this one already very stable. If you guys find anything that's really important to change or add, this is the best moment to come up with it