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#1
Custom Cars with Stressed / Re: Grip modifiers. Tire types
Last post by Daniel3D - Today at 08:29:04 AMThanks for the clarification. I don't know half of the terms you used but yes. That's kind of it.
In stunts it's faked a bit i think because weight is a factor in acceleration. But i do not think that it is used for grip, just as downforce, it is not a variable so grip does not increase with speed.
These are the things you do have to consider, nobody wants an other car that handles like the Countach.
QuoteThe proportion between them is called "static friction coefficient"That was wat i was looking for.
In stunts it's faked a bit i think because weight is a factor in acceleration. But i do not think that it is used for grip, just as downforce, it is not a variable so grip does not increase with speed.
These are the things you do have to consider, nobody wants an other car that handles like the Countach.
#4
Custom Cars with Stressed / Re: Grip modifiers. Tire types
Last post by Cas - Yesterday at 07:00:32 PMMy understanding is that grip can be seen as analogous to friction in physics. You have two friction coefficients: a static one and a dynamic one. This results in a very simple linear equation that will just switch coefficients when the maxium static force is applied instead of having to deal with an elaborate hybrid formula.
When the force is less than the maximum static force, you have a friction force opposite that cancels out with it. This maximum force is proportional to the modulo of the normal, which is equal to the car weight if the car is standing on the ground, just in the opposite direction. The proportion between them is called "static friction coefficient". This means that two cars with the same tyres (since it's the tyres that make contact with the ground) will be able to maintain grip up to different maximum forces if they have different weights. In other words, the type of tyre is an integral part of the grip if we see it this way.
Now, there are a couple of things here that general classical mechanics are not taking into account. One is that, at sufficiently high speeds, the air becomes significant and the downforce you mention adds to the normal (in the opposite direction), which increases the grip. The other thing is that, if a car is heavier, it not only gravitates more (weighs more), but also has a greater inertia, so it'll be harder to keep it on track on a curve. In other words, the grip will be reduced. This is a centrifugal, ficticious force, so it makes sense that is left out of the general rule, but it's a lot simpler to calculate it as a force anyway.
In short, without an atmosphere and with a car that's going negligibly fast in comparison to it's weight (we're talking spherical cows here), it's all really simple
When the force is less than the maximum static force, you have a friction force opposite that cancels out with it. This maximum force is proportional to the modulo of the normal, which is equal to the car weight if the car is standing on the ground, just in the opposite direction. The proportion between them is called "static friction coefficient". This means that two cars with the same tyres (since it's the tyres that make contact with the ground) will be able to maintain grip up to different maximum forces if they have different weights. In other words, the type of tyre is an integral part of the grip if we see it this way.
Now, there are a couple of things here that general classical mechanics are not taking into account. One is that, at sufficiently high speeds, the air becomes significant and the downforce you mention adds to the normal (in the opposite direction), which increases the grip. The other thing is that, if a car is heavier, it not only gravitates more (weighs more), but also has a greater inertia, so it'll be harder to keep it on track on a curve. In other words, the grip will be reduced. This is a centrifugal, ficticious force, so it makes sense that is left out of the general rule, but it's a lot simpler to calculate it as a force anyway.
In short, without an atmosphere and with a car that's going negligibly fast in comparison to it's weight (we're talking spherical cows here), it's all really simple
#5
Custom Cars with Stressed / Re: De Tomaso Pantera
Last post by Cas - Yesterday at 06:39:53 PMIt really looks great. I agree that it's an amazing design
#6
Custom Cars with Stressed / Re: Grip modifiers. Tire types
Last post by Daniel3D - Yesterday at 12:10:26 PMThe changes in the above test were not extremely big. I tried to keep it balanced and that seems to have worked.
I've been thinking a bit more about how to approach this topic. Why grip is done this way, and I think that I get it.
The base grip is not tire related. It is the it is the result of effects not otherwise specified by the game like downforce. The grip modifiers are how effective the grip is transferred to the road.
So a rally version car with additional spoilers can have a higher base grip but because of the open tire structure a lower effectiveness on normal road.
This could cancel each other out so that the rally version is just as fast as its normal road counter part.
It's just optimized for dirt road which modifier can be standard or better.
It makes quite a complex mechanism. It is mostly about what feels right.
But maybe future creators can use this as inspiration.
I've been thinking a bit more about how to approach this topic. Why grip is done this way, and I think that I get it.
The base grip is not tire related. It is the it is the result of effects not otherwise specified by the game like downforce. The grip modifiers are how effective the grip is transferred to the road.
So a rally version car with additional spoilers can have a higher base grip but because of the open tire structure a lower effectiveness on normal road.
This could cancel each other out so that the rally version is just as fast as its normal road counter part.
It's just optimized for dirt road which modifier can be standard or better.
It makes quite a complex mechanism. It is mostly about what feels right.
But maybe future creators can use this as inspiration.
#7
Motor sports, Racing / Re: Racing / test drive videos...
Last post by Daniel3D - Yesterday at 10:58:16 AMQuote from: Chulk on Yesterday at 04:33:55 AMYou are absolutely right about that. We were commenting with the same idea in mind. Even stunts has the mechanism for it. Like the LM002 has an much higher grip on ice than any other car and can beat the Countach on an challenging ice track.Quote from: Daniel3D on September 19, 2022, 08:44:52 AMI meant to say they are designed for a very specific purpose, so this kind of comparisons are stupid. Can we really say Rally cars are slower than F1 cars when each is intendee to work in very different situations?Quote from: Chulk on September 19, 2022, 02:41:15 AMi don't think that F1 cars would do well in most places outside of the racetrack. Just speedbumps alone would be a menace.Quote from: alanrotoi on May 11, 2022, 04:45:38 AMDrag race!:I don't see the point in this. Obviously F1 cars would beat any other car were they not limited to usefullness in a race track
Bugatti Chiron vs world champion 2011 Red Bull F1 Car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLUTB5TwM4o
#10
Motor sports, Racing / Re: Racing / test drive videos...
Last post by Chulk - Yesterday at 04:33:55 AMQuote from: Daniel3D on September 19, 2022, 08:44:52 AMI meant to say they are designed for a very specific purpose, so this kind of comparisons are stupid. Can we really say Rally cars are slower than F1 cars when each is intendee to work in very different situations?Quote from: Chulk on September 19, 2022, 02:41:15 AMi don't think that F1 cars would do well in most places outside of the racetrack. Just speedbumps alone would be a menace.Quote from: alanrotoi on May 11, 2022, 04:45:38 AMDrag race!:I don't see the point in this. Obviously F1 cars would beat any other car were they not limited to usefullness in a race track
Bugatti Chiron vs world champion 2011 Red Bull F1 Car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLUTB5TwM4o