One reason why I am back in PRO

[al il professore]

I beat everyone. plus the ones that never played on z24. plus god himself. plus alanrotoi. plus my lazyness. huge.

[CTG]

I beat everyone. plus the ones that never played on z24. plus god himself. plus alanrotoi. plus my lazyness. huge.

Congrats, Mr. Self-Polisher! And where you now?

[zaqrack]

I beat everyone. plus the ones that never played on z24. plus god himself. plus alanrotoi. plus my lazyness. huge.

Congrats, Mr. Self-Polisher! And where you now?

quite active on Facebook re. Charlie Hebdo.

[Chulk]

quite active on Facebook re. Charlie Hebdo.

I rather not check then, I'm quite tired of the "Je suis Charlie" stupidity

[Shoegazing Leo]

Maybe only the brazilians will understand:

[CTG]

quite active on Facebook re. Charlie Hebdo.

I rather not check then, I'm quite tired of the "Je suis Charlie" stupidity

Me too. If you are mocking a lion, don't be surprised if it kills you.

[BonzaiJoe]

Well, we can't interview the dead, so we can't find out whether they were surprised to be killed or not. Honestly I don't think it's a very important question anyway.

[CTG]

we can't find out whether they were surprised to be killed or not

Surprised or not, they provoked the attack. I don't agree with the terrorists, but I can't feel sorry for those who put a "Shoot here" sign on themselves in the name of "free speech".

[BonzaiJoe]

Really? You can't?

You really need to work on your ability to feel sorry.

Are you capable of feeling sorry for:

- sexily dressed women who get raped
- black people who get assaulted in white neighborhoods
- white people who get assaulted in black neighborhoods
- North Korean people who get killed for going against the regime
- people who get run over by non-speeding cars
- people who got shot trying to pass the Berlin wall

?

[CTG]

First of all: as long as I'm not affected by these things, generally I don't really care of them. I have my own problems and my life is too short to spend my time on feeling sorry about others'  misery. Probably the only exceptions are kids and animals, as they can't defend themselves. (Usually I'm more sad to see a suffering animal than a suffering human being. Don't ask why, you can find it out easily.)

- sexily dressed women who get raped
WHORES, but they do not deserve to be raped. However, they have 10-20 percent responsibility in that. I'm sorry if the chick did not look like a whore.

- black people who get assaulted in white neighborhoods
- white people who get assaulted in black neighborhoods
I guess you know my opinion about blacks, so it's useless to say anything. Okay, I was kidding. The neighborhood problem is a special problem for me, I can't be objective in that.

- North Korean people who get killed for going against the regime
Sure, I do feel sorry. They have no chance to leave that country.

- people who get run over by non-speeding cars
It depends on the circumstances. If the pedestrian was not aware, it is his own fault.

- people who got shot trying to pass the Berlin wall
The same as in the case of Korea.

But hey, why don't you, hypocrites feel sorry for the dozens of victims (per day) of Boko Haram in Nigeria? Or when American soldiers kill / torture hundreds civilians? The sofa peace activists are pissed off only when the terrorism is next to their home (in this case: in the EU). Watching the news, you can hear about several terror attacks and cruelty in Africa and Arabian countries - people don't really notice it, because it happens every day. But when fanatic muslims kill some arrogant and disrespectful journalists in Paris, the whole liberal world becomes "Charlie". The same goes for the WTC attack. People don't handle these things consequently.

[BonzaiJoe]

Oh, I generally agree. I'm disheartened about all those things you mention, and the Charlie tragedy doesn't particularly touch me on an emotional level because after all, people get killed all the time. I don't know why you'd assume the French deaths are more important to me than the Nigerian ones. It's closer to my home and my life, which makes it somewhat more important to me, but that's all.
It was only your allusion that the attack was somehow justified or that it's not a problem if journalists get murdered for what they do that I found incredibly stupid.

You generally seem to disagree with the basic notion that individuals should be free to do what they want as long as they don't, in doing what they want, compromise another's freedom to do what he wants. So I think we're going to have a hard time discussing politics.

[Chulk]

I will explain why I'm pissed by "je suis Charlie" motto:

They mocked the muslim god, prophet or whatever waving their "free speech" flag and the entire western media claps their hand and laughs and encourage them to do it more. They even mocked people killed by western military in Nigeria, Egypt, Siria, Palestine and a whole bunch of countries. What would the western media say if a joke similar to the one below was done by any media, showing Charb with a copy of Charlie Hebdo in his hand and a message saying "CH is shit, it can't stop bullets"? Would they have laughed with the joke, saying free speech is a right everybody is entitled to or would they have said free speech is ok, but everything has a limit we should never cross?
I'll save you time, they would have never approved such a joke.
Everybody likes to think free speech actually exists and enjoy pretending they defend it all the time, but truth is they don't. They are just a bunch of hipocrits who laugh about certain topics that are not related to them at all. It's ok, we can all laugh about the Palestine people killed by Israel because there is free speech and you can say whatever you want, but hey! don't even think about making a joke about WWII holocaust, because you'll be inmediately tagged as an antisemite and a bad person for making fun of the dead.
So as long as everybody is a hipocrit, nobody is Charlie Hebdo. Come on, not even Charlie Hebdo is Charlie Hebdo!! They just mock about what their consumers find funny, but they will never do something that could mock their consumers, because that would be bad for bussiness

[BonzaiJoe]

Well, I could go into a discussion with you about the merits of Charlie Hebdo and the free speech discourse and how drawings are open to interpretation and the role of context, but it would be completely beside the point.

The fact here is that 12(+5) people got murdered because some of them had said offensive things. The idea is that this is completely unacceptable NO MATTER WHAT HAS BEEN SAID. It would not be okay either if Charlie Hebdo had poked fun at the holocaust in an offensive way.

The fact that you even factor the contents of the utterance that led to the killing into your judgement about whether the killing was justified suggests that you're the hypocrite here. You'll sympathize with the dead only if they had an opinion acceptable to you. This is exactly what you accuse the 'Je suis Charlie' crowd of.

And although free speech discourse is full of hypocrisy, no one from the Western choir of hypocrites would call for death to anyone based on offensive speech.

[Chulk]

I never said I justified the killings. You know perfectly well I would never aprove killing in the name of any god (wheter people believe they exist or not is irrelevant, I don't). It just annoys me that only this killing is wrong, but not the ones the French military perform in many muslim countries (supporting ISIS on one place and fighting against ISIS on another even). It bothers me that everybody is Charlie, but nobody is that little village (with no military targets whatsoever) devastated by UN troops while searching for Irak's atomic bombs (which they never found, by the way).
You can say those killings or villages don't reach mass media (there's a reason for it) so people don't know and can't feel for them. Granted. What about 9-11? Except for those that need to be politically correct, the rest of people that today "is Charlie" (here in Argentina at least) laughed and couldn't care less, because "Yeah, we all hate the American empire, they had it coming!" and it didn't matter it was not a military target that was attacked.
It's people hipocresy that I am against, not free speech. I'm not justifying or encouraging killings either, I just can't stand when mass is stupid enough to be manipulated by media telling them "this is wrong / this is right. Feel bad for them, they are innocent / don't feel bad for them, they are terrorist"