Stunts sequel projects

[RacerBG]

Well there are two main news:

The first one is from Ultimate Stunts:

September 7, 2012
Released Ultimate Stunts 0.7.7. This new version mostly contains artwork changes: there are a large number of new cars, which were contributed by Guido Consogno and the menu background has been updated. When it comes to functionality, there are some small bugfixes, but most importantly, there are several changes in how the windows version installs itself, which will hopefully fix some issues of Ultimate Stunts on windows vista and windows 7.

And the second one is from Stunts Rally which is now at version 1.2.

[CTG]

Well there are two main news:

The first one is from Ultimate Stunts:

September 7, 2012
Released Ultimate Stunts 0.7.7. This new version mostly contains artwork changes: there are a large number of new cars, which were contributed by Guido Consogno and the menu background has been updated. When it comes to functionality, there are some small bugfixes, but most importantly, there are several changes in how the windows version installs itself, which will hopefully fix some issues of Ultimate Stunts on windows vista and windows 7.

The additional cars are cool (especially Maserati Bora), however I miss some newer supercars, like Veyron.

[JTK]

I received an e-mail yesterday from Matei Petrescu (matei@ppm.ro) and decided to publish it here so he can probably receive some more resonance:

Hello,

I didn't know anything about "Stunts" until 2010, when I made version 1 of
a driving simulation game which I called "simcar" and is available at
http://simple3d.sf.net . I posted an announcement about this game at
http://happypenguin.org (which no longer exists since 2 or 3 years) and
some people wrote there that it reminds them of "Stunts". So I went to see
what this "Stunts" game is about. I downloaded a version from some
"abandonware" site, played it, wasn't initially very impressed but found
some things in it which inspired me to add some new elements into my game,
which eventually become 2 games, the second one being based on Open
Dynamics Engine ( http://www.ode.org ) and available at
http://skunks.sf.net and called "skunks" (you can see here that this time
the name is inspired from "Stunts").

At some point in time I discovered that even in 2012-2014, "Stunts" is
still quite popular within a certain community and that even competitions
are held on various sites ( http://stunts.hu, http://kalpen.de/stunts
etc.) where copies of several versions of the game, which is there claimed
to be freeware, can be downloaded. The fact that some thousands of tracks
made by many people exist does make the game much more interesting and I
even found that some completely new cars were added to the original
version. The 3D graphics, with low resolution and lots of other problems
distract the attention from the fact that the cars move very
unrealistically and I find this to be one of the few cases where 2 wrongs
(graphics and car movement) make a right. The graphics leave a lot to the
imagination and the awkward handling makes the cars controllable with a
keyboard. Also interesting is the fact that this game shows what a 386 CPU
can do.

But there are some problems. The game is NOT freeware. I found on a site
that somebody checked with Mindscape and Broderbund. This is irrelevant as
long as the screen shows "Copyright 1990 Distinctive Software". I agree
that copyright laws are ridiculous and extending copyright for more than
20 years, especially for computer programs, is even more ridiculous and
constitutes an unacceptable intervention of the state into the economy.
But those laws are there and are going to stay there because the world is
ruled by masons, bankers, oil companies etc. A way to certify that
"Stunts" is freeware does however exist and is exemplified at
http://worldofspectrum.org . It involves getting written permision (like
in email) from all people involved in making the game (Don Mattrick, Kevin
Pickell etc.). Or their successors, in case they followed Colin McRae,
who, as I found out these days, committed suicide in 2007 and also killed
his son in the process. And "Colin McRae Rally" was a much newer game.

So copyright laws are ridiculous and they stifle progress, which is why I
only use free software (starting with GNU/Linux operating system) with a
few (properly) freeware games for DOS and ZX Spectrum, which have some
historical significance. "Stunts" is the only software that I use and is
not free(ware). The authors may not mind, but nobody checked. The irony is
that the actual CRACK might be copyrighted, as when I type "stunts_k.exe",
some text about "Copyware Neverlock Loader .... registered ... " shows up.

So I'm not suggesting to replace "Stunts" and the previously mentioned
competitions with my game(s), but I think they could be a nice addition,
considering:

- they are 100% free as in freedom, including "game data" - all GPL;
- realistic physics;
- tracks and cars are even easier to create than in "Stunts";
- software rendering (but done properly, with z-buffer)
- no 3D acceleration
- a Pentium 2 at 400 MHz is sufficient (with a version compiled and
configured for such a situation);
- that means they will run on practically any computer made after 1998;
- easy to compile, only standard C and SDL (1.2 or 2) libraries used;
- loops and corkscrews on both sides (left and right) and loops with 3
diameters;
- besides, any new type of track element can be added;
- extremely easy to HACK with, as the source code is both available and as
simple as it can get for a driving simulation;
- 3D models are in simple text files: one with vertices and triangles, one
with colours and one with data for backface culling;
- support from me, as much as I can offer.

I don't have much time to develop the games and, considering their current
popularity, not much motivation either. So I thought I'd let you know.

Matei

[Duplode]

Interesting e-mail, thanks JTK! Did you point Matei to this thread?

On the subject of copyrights, I don't have anything to say about the story so far that you and the other folks here aren't aware of. It is worth mentioning that DSI became EA Canada, as I learned from other threads (such as this, this and this) a long time ago.

As for Skunks I will most certainly try it later. Among all the cool features, this one...

- loops and corkscrews on both sides (left and right) and loops with 3
diameters;

...is enough to persuade me! 

[CTG]

A Hungarian guy published this on YouTube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKKUHBh2dBc

[dstien]

But there are some problems. The game is NOT freeware. I found on a site
that somebody checked with Mindscape and Broderbund. This is irrelevant as
long as the screen shows "Copyright 1990 Distinctive Software"

The topic of Stunts came up in a thread on the Programming Reddit yesterday, and Kevin Pickell himself appeared with some interesting comments:

I'm pretty sure Br0derbund still owns the copyright on it.

Br0derbund still had the rights to it after EA bought DSI. I actually had it running on the Sega Genesis around 1992 or so and there was talk of releasing it but we had two problems, I could not get it running faster than about 10 frames per second and EA would have had to get the rights back from Br0derbund so it was shelved.

I don't have the source for it anymore, and since it was my first 3d program, I would be ashamed if anyone has a look at the source.

[Vector]

Ultimate Stunts was always a poop if whe talk about the original game.

[afullo]

By the way, Ultimate Stunts hit at the beginning of 2017 version 0.7.8: https://sourceforge.net/projects/ultimatestunts/

[Cas]

I haven't checked on Ultimate Stunts for a long time. I may go and take a look again. I remember it looked good, although it had a feel completely different from that of Stunts. If we're considering (again) the possibility of building something, maybe I can be of help

[afullo]

Which version did you play as latest? Unfortunately its development sharply slowened after mid-2008, with only three more subversions released so far in different years.

[Cas]

Uhm... I'm not sure which version, but I bet it has improved, because it's been a long time. I'll take a look at it to see how it is now

[Daniel3D]

Nah, it has not improved. Extended scenery only as far as I can tell.
Still drives like crap.

I fear it's a game engine optimization problem.
(I would make that my first priority, but who am I  )

[Cas]

I still have not tried it, but in a way, I understand them. I remember how it felt driving Ultimate Stunts the last time I tried it. It seems to me that the idea was to make a modern game with some resemblance of Stunts, but their vision of driving style seems to resemble more perhaps Screamer. They may have been inspired in more than one game and not just Stunts. That's OK. I personally think Stunts has a very unique driving that any sequel should try to represent. It's true that it does have lots of bugs and it's very unrealistic, but many things in Stunts driving are truly desirable in a game... and for Stunts fans, these are most. So a game called Ultimate Stunts will have its followers expect the driving of Stunts. This was probably an inconvenient move, but it's not wrong... I mean, maybe they just think the good part of Stunts was the ease of track editing and not the driving. I'm glad that each attempt of a sequel is very different from the rest.

[Daniel3D]

In Stunts I can control the car, it's mostly predictable and it feels good.
Also the physics are surprisingly good for its time.
How many race game do you know that implements downforce good enough to drive upside down in the tube. (If you have the right car and enough speed)
I've never seen an other.

Ultimate stunts doesn't give me a sense of control.
But maybe I should give it more time to get used to..

[Overdrijf]

In Stunts I can control the car, it's mostly predictable and it feels good.
Also the physics are surprisingly good for its time.
How many race game do you know that implements downforce good enough to drive upside down in the tube. (If you have the right car and enough speed)

That's probably one of the funniest things about Stunts. The physics are actually a very bad simulation, but somehow it all works out. This thread is a decent account of some of the experimenting, mostly by Duplode.

The downforce is a good example. Stunts does not model downforce as it exists in real world physics. Instead, as long as your car is touching the road surface of a loop or pipe or corkscrew that surface is defined as down. I don't know if I ever tried it, but you should be able to come to a full stop while upside down.

Another good example is gravity. (Note: my explanation could be a bit off, but this is the gist of it.) Gravity consists of the nose of a vehicle not in contact with a driveable surface (including the ground) being lowered some set number of positions with each passing time step. The speed and position for that next step are then calculated as normal. That's why shorter cars have a shorter jump length. The nose is lowered the same number of steps, but the shorter wheelbase/length (they're the same thing) means this is a greater amount of degrees, pointing the vehicle down faster. This is also connected to those super jump bugs where you fly up to infinity and beyond. If the car gets launched at an uncarlike angle it takes a while for the nose-going-down mechanic to return the nose below the horizon, and all the while the car keeps speeding up into the sky. At the end of the jump the nose has been lowered as far as possible, and the car comes straight down. But if you survive that landing all that speed is translated into forward speed again, and you can just keep running.

The physics in Stunts work brilliantly for the intended situations, but they're not good models. They're bad models that feel really good. And that's awesome.