Amateur experience points

[dreadnaut]

The experience points introduced with the Amateur League are finally visible on pipsqueak profiles.

For 2022, some were assigned to Frieshansen (promoted), Heretic (Amateur champion 2022), Cas and afullo (Amateur runner-ups 2022).

[edit] Whops, that was wrong, see later posts.

For 2022, some were assigned to Frieshansen (promoted and 2nd place on the season scoreboard), Heretic (Amateur champion 2022), and to Cas (Amateur runner-ups 2022).

[Duplode]

Nice display -- very clearly presented, and it doubles as a list of achievements for upcoming pipsqueaks 👍

[Daniel3D]

I don't want achievement's...
I hate achievement based games because they mean i get stuck at some point.
Stunts is about racing to the best of your abilities.
The distinction between pro and amateur is a sensible one and i like it.
But i would like to opt-out of any further achievement development...

No, awards, Medals and badges either...

[Overdrijf]

I don't know. Something like my first podium or first race win was kind of cool at that point, and I have looked at the Zakstunts medal table ones or twice going "ooh, I could overtake [person X]. Expanding that with markers for things like your 50th race (either in one specific competition or even better over all of them), a car you made being used in a competition, winning streaks, stuff like that, I can kind of see that. You (you personally, not the general you) might get achievements like "software developer", "race organizer", "competition runner" and "1000 forum posts". And of course there would be a much coveted achievement for having attended a Stunts World Meeting. We'd still all be chasing our own goals, or not, but I could see a community achievement system as a minor extra incentive to chase goals sometimes.

P.S. personal story: I don't think I realized just how violent a game "Just Cause 2" is until an achiement popped up: "killed 1000 people". Uhmm, oops? If we hypothetically could tie community achievements to Stunts itself we should definitely make one for 1000 opponent DNF's.

EDIT: although as a counterpoint I could see how this could make the community more intimidating. "This guy has participated in 100 races, won 20 of them and was the champion of 4 seasons? Yeah, I'm not going to try and beat his time. In fact I'll just go play something else now."

[dreadnaut]

I don't want achievement's...

Hahaha, I had never thought about having achievements in ZakStunts, but now that you mention it...

Nah, no intention to add anything like that, but XPs need to be visible somewhere, for transparency. Note that points are "in test", so if in a year we discover that the numbers make no sense, I'm happy to update them retroactively.

[alanrotoi]

I don't want achievement's...

I like them but also can live without. I won't support it if there is such resistance against. So maybe I would like to make it out of ZakStunts, an article or something about community achievements. They could mix some funny achievement and skill achievement.

[Daniel3D]

I don't want achievement's...

I like them but also can live without. I won't support it if there is such resistance against. So maybe I would like to make it out of ZakStunts, an article or something about community achievements. They could mix some funny achievement and skill achievement.

If others want achievement's, that's fine.
And so far it's only me that doesn't like them, I'd hardly call that a strong resistance
But I don't think that the community needs them, except for the amateur/pro distinction.
Like Zak wrote 20 years ago:

The key is the community. If a pipsqueak is addicted there`s no escape The chat and forum presence is essential to be a regular pipsqueak (of course everyone compared to his availablefree time), and teamwork is the key to improve in results.

[afullo]

The experience points introduced with the Amateur League are finally visible on pipsqueak profiles.

For 2022, some were assigned to Frieshansen (promoted), Heretic (Amateur champion 2022), Cas and afullo (Amateur runner-ups 2022).

Ok thanks, so Frieshansen does not count for the latest amateur league, since he got promoted (well before the end of the season). I just corrected here.

[Duplode]

Ok thanks, so Frieshansen does not count for the latest amateur league, since he got promoted (well before the end of the season). I just corrected here.

I think he does count, with the (8 ) results obtained until graduation being enough for him to get the 2nd place.

Looking again at the season scoreboard, though, I have noticed a different issue: the LTB points Frieshansen got in ZCT256 (after his graduation) are being included in his Amateur League total.

[Daniel3D]

A new mechanic is bound to have a few bugs.. and this is in my opinion a very minor thing.. but sharp observation.. 

[dreadnaut]

I think he does count, with the ( results obtained until graduation being enough for him to get the 2nd place.

The rules discussed was "An amateur loses their status when they reach 10 ZakPoints, effective from the next race" — to me that meant "they stop belonging to the Amateur scoreboard".

Visually, I can't remove the scoreboard row without retroactively changing points (which causes a time paradox!), but I do need to highlight them as "promoted" and skip them in the position count.

Being promoted, in a way, is a strong result comparable to winning the Amateur title, but on a separate scale.

[Duplode]

The rules discussed was "An amateur loses their status when they reach 10 ZakPoints, effective from the next race" — to me that meant "they stop belonging to the Amateur scoreboard".

In the discussion around the time of Frieshansen's promotion, the understanding seemingly was that he would still be in title contention, just unable to earn more points in the final races. Either way, I do think this should be reconsidered, and the results kept for the year. The retroactive exclusion doesn't sit right with me, and having recently looked at the 2003 Amateur archives (in which the race scoreboards were rewritten at the end of the season to fit the promotions) only intensifies that feeling. Keeping the results makes for a more attractive competition IMO, and instant graduation should be enough to keep Renato-style edge cases from unbalancing things too much even without exclusion.

[afullo]

For me it is basically the same, I can revert the Wiki page, in the case...

[Duplode]

For me it is basically the same, I can revert the Wiki page, in the case...

Since dreadnaut has agreed, I have added Frieshansen back. (Unrelatedly, I have also updated the medal table.)

[Overdrijf]

(Unrelatedly, I have also updated the medal table.)

As a "no rush, somewhere in the future" thing for the medal table: The wiki, the scoreboard and the medal table disagree in wether Superbrian ever won a Zakstunts race. He was tied with you in race 136. The scoreboard of the race itself gives you both 12 points and lists him higher (due to LTB?), the medal table says he won silver.

...Because it's never too late to rewrite history.