Plaidoyer: Maintaining Fairness and Skill in Stunts

[Argammon]

1) It's entirely reasonable that @Victor Narl (and Alain) prefer cars to stay on the tarmac rather than spending excessive time on the grass. It's also perfectly valid to propose rule changes to address this concern.

What I find—speaking as neutrally as possible—unhelpful is blending the discussion of potential rule changes with accusations of cheating. As long as pipsqueaks comply with the current ZakStunts rules, they are not cheating. That may sound obvious, but it's worth stating clearly.

2) It's important to understand the majority view. Do we have a genuine consensus? We should be careful not to assume that the loudest voices automatically represent the majority. That may or may not be the case.

3) I agree that pipsqueaks skilled with PG cars currently have an advantage—myself included. For a balanced distribution of wins, PG cars should ideally win around 4 out of 16 tracks.

If the community agrees that PG wins should be limited, here's my proposal:

Once a car wins a race, it becomes unavailable for the rest of the season.

We can then discuss whether a pool of 16 cars remains sufficient under this rule.



PS:

For instance, https://imgur.com/ajg8k3L.png in 2003, I found all the PG shortcuts and shared them with my 5 team members. It was one of the few races with a power gear of the whole year and everyone in the scoreboard used it. It was fair competition. Now in 2025 it's 6 months on PG and 3% of pipsqueaks using it take all the wins.

I remember that differently, but it is not important regarding the current discussion.

[dreadnaut]

@Alain, if you agree with me then you misunderstood my message 😅 My point is that the same people win PG and non-PG races. Removing PG from the equation doesn't change the result: they win because, at that moment in time, they are the most dedicated pipsqueaks.

You could argue for "a distortion" only if there were two different sets of drivers: those who win/podium all the PG races, and those who win/podium only the "rare" non-PG races.

Look at the past five years: can you find significant evidence of these two groups?

If someone consistently ranks in the middle of the scoreboard (✋), claiming "oh, I would have won this race if it weren't for powergear" would be disingenous.

[Victor Narl]

@Alain, if you agree with me then you misunderstood my message 😅 My point is that the same people win PG and non-PG races. Removing PG from the equation doesn't change the result: they win because, at that moment in time, they are the most dedicated pipsqueaks.

You could argue for "a distortion" only if there were two different sets of drivers: those who win/podium all the PG races, and those who only win/podium the "rare" non-PG races.

Look at the past five years: can you find significant evidence of these two groups?

If someone always lands in the middle of the scoreboard (✋), claiming "oh, I would have won this race if it weren't for powergear" would be disingenous.

it's not about who can drive better with or without PG, it's about healthy competition. a gap like this race is outrageous and doesn't show a real advantage in skill https://zak.stunts.hu/tracks/ZCT284 - I think such races discredit the game itself and this championship

[Alain il professore]

@Alain, if you agree with me then you misunderstood my message 😅 My point is that the same people win PG and non-PG races. Removing PG from the equation doesn't change the result: they win because, at that moment in time, they are the most dedicated pipsqueaks.

You could argue for "a distortion" only if there were two different sets of drivers: those who win/podium all the PG races, and those who win/podium only the "rare" non-PG races.

Look at the past five years: can you find significant evidence of these two groups?

If someone consistently ranks in the middle of the scoreboard (✋), claiming "oh, I would have won this race if it weren't for powergear" would be disingenous.

A far less dedicated pipsqueak who ranks consistently in the middle of the scoreboard could redo the lap of this month winner with no dedication.

@KyLiE is the only pipsqueak that could help us with hints on what you want to know, he is the only one who saw how to do it, and drove for a ZCT289 podium.

I don't mean to be rude to any pilot in particular, that's not my point. I'm pointing the precise flaws in the meta. And this meta is so broken it can even favor the same entire team!

I'd love to know how much total time you invested @KyLiE once you had the informations needed to imitate the PG lap. Real question btw, it would help us grasp how much of a dedicated pipsqueak you are and if for real, the most invested pipsqueaks win the race at Zakstunts 25. Again, no value judgement, just investigation. "Non hypotheses fingo!" as would say Newton (the alchemist) I don't push my imagination, I don't work on baseless facts!

Thank you for your time reading me, I hope it was enjoyable and easy to read ❤️�🔥

[alanrotoi]

@Alain, if you agree with me then you misunderstood my message 😅 My point is that the same people win PG and non-PG races. Removing PG from the equation doesn't change the result: they win because, at that moment in time, they are the most dedicated pipsqueaks.

You could argue for "a distortion" only if there were two different sets of drivers: those who win/podium all the PG races, and those who win/podium only the "rare" non-PG races.

Look at the past five years: can you find significant evidence of these two groups?

If someone consistently ranks in the middle of the scoreboard (✋), claiming "oh, I would have won this race if it weren't for powergear" would be disingenous.

A far less dedicated pipsqueak who ranks consistently in the middle of the scoreboard could redo the lap of this month winner with no dedication.

@KyLiE is the only pipsqueak that could help us with hints on what you want to know, he is the only one who saw how to do it, and drove for a ZCT289 podium.

I don't mean to be rude to any pilot in particular, that's not my point. I'm pointing the precise flaws in the meta. And this meta is so broken it can even favor the same entire team!

I'd love to know how much total time you invested @KyLiE once you had the informations needed to imitate the PG lap. Real question btw, it would help us grasp how much of a dedicated pipsqueak you are and if for real, the most invested pipsqueaks win the race at Zakstunts 25. Again, no value judgement, just investigation. "Non hypotheses fingo!" as would say Newton (the alchemist) I don't push my imagination, I don't work on baseless facts!

Thank you for your time reading me, I hope it was enjoyable and easy to read ❤️�🔥

I'm surprised that people keeps replying without noticing it's all about trolling. Starting with Victor that he fell so deep in the net so he might take this message as offensive or something like that. I hope he won't.

[Matei]

Races (they're actually called speedruns, not races) with cars controlled by people are outdated. Again Stunts with its "replay handling" feature was ahead of its time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqq8I3JFz4

"Trackmania Tool Assisted Speedruns are BEYOND Incredible..."

because in Trackmania the p***ics are completely deterministic, so that exact sequence of inputs will always give you the same result.

Like in Stunts, but not in my game. Anyway, Trackmania is junk and if a car moves like this, a lot worse than in Stunts, in a game made in 2006, then the programmers were incompetent. People seem to appreciate this, as I wrote before:

I think it's because people who play driving games don't want realistic physics. I mean look at the driving games made after 1995 and until now. How many of them have [...] physics models?

[dreadnaut]

I'm surprised that people keeps replying without noticing it's all about trolling.

I prefer to assume good intentions, but a different frame of mind. On the other hand, I do need an answer to this, @Alain, because for me it's a fundamental point:

You could argue for "a distortion" only if there were two different sets of drivers: those who win/podium all the PG races, and those who win/podium only the "rare" non-PG races.

Look at the past five years: can you find significant evidence of these two groups?

[Victor Narl]

I also propose to discuss increasing the designer coefficient points from +/-10 to +/-20, this will give the track designer more freedom and will allow him to better evaluate the capabilities of the cars

[Alain il professore]

I'm surprised that people keeps replying without noticing it's all about trolling.

I prefer to assume good intentions, but a different frame of mind. On the other hand, I do need an answer to this, @Alain, because for me it's a fundamental point:

You could argue for "a distortion" only if there were two different sets of drivers: those who win/podium all the PG races, and those who win/podium only the "rare" non-PG races.

Look at the past five years: can you find significant evidence of these two groups?

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT126	Duplode	Lamborghini (Lambo)	No
ZCT127	Duplode	Ferrari F40	No
ZCT128	Duplode	Ferrari (288 GTO)	Yes
ZCT129	Gutix	Jaguar XJR-9 (Jaguar)	No
ZCT130	Gutix	Lotus Esprit (Lotus)	No
ZCT131	Renato Biker	Kart	No
ZCT132	Renato Biker	Porsche Carrera 4 (Carrera)	No
ZCT133	Renato Biker	Lancia	No
ZCT134	Renato Biker	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No
ZCT135	Duplode	Porsche March Indy (Indy)	Yes
ZCT136	SuperBrian / Duplode (tie)	Acura (Acura NSX)	Yes
ZCT137	Friker	Nissan Skyline (Skyline)	No

2012 recap

Total winners (counting the tie at ZCT136 for both pilots): Duplode 5; Renato Biker 4; Gutix 2; SuperBrian 1; Friker 1.

Longest streaks: Duplode 3 in a row (ZCT126–ZCT128); Renato Biker 4 in a row (ZCT131–ZCT134); Gutix 2 in a row (ZCT129–ZCT130).

PG vs non-PG (by race): 3 / 12 races were won with a PG car (25.0%) — ZCT128 (Ferrari), ZCT135 (Indy), ZCT136 (Acura).

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT138	CTG	Corvette ZR-1 (Vette)	Yes
ZCT139	Renato Biker	Audi Quattro (Audi)	No
ZCT140	Renato Biker	Lamborghini LM002 (LM002)	No
ZCT141	Renato Biker	McLaren	No
ZCT142	CTG	Lotus	No
ZCT143	Renato Biker	Ferrari F40 (F40)	No
ZCT144	Duplode	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes
ZCT145	CTG	ZR1-GT3	No
ZCT146	CTG	Porsche Carrera 4 (Carrera)	No
ZCT147	CTG	Melange	No
ZCT148	Renato Biker	Jaguar XJR-9 (Jaguar)	No
ZCT149	Renato Biker	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No

2013 recap
• Wins: Renato Biker 6; CTG 5; Duplode 1.
• Streaks: Renato Biker three in a row (ZCT139–141); CTG three in a row (ZCT145–147); Renato Biker two in a row (ZCT148–149).
• PG vs non-PG (winners): 2/12 PG wins (16.7%) — ZCT138 (Vette), ZCT144 (Ferrari 288 GTO). All other wins were in non-PG cars.

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT150	Renato Biker	Lancia Delta Integrale	No
ZCT151	Renato Biker	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT152	Duplode	Lamborghini Countach (Lambo)	No
ZCT153	Renato Biker	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT154	Akoss Poo	Lamborghini LM002	No
ZCT155	Akoss Poo	Audi Quattro	No
ZCT156	Duplode	Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 (Vette)	Yes
ZCT157	Duplode	Lotus Esprit	No
ZCT158	Duplode	Ferrari 288 GTO (Ferrari)	Yes
ZCT159	Akoss Poo	Ferrari F40 (F40)	No
ZCT160	Akoss Poo	Melange XGT-88 (Melange)	No
ZCT161	Akoss Poo	Jaguar XJR-9 (Jaguar)	No

2014 recap
• Total wins: Akoss Poo 5; Duplode 4; Renato Biker 3.

• Streaks: Duplode 3 in a row (ZCT156–158); Akoss Poo 3 in a row to close the year (ZCT159–161) and a 2-race streak earlier (ZCT154–155).

• PG vs non-PG among winners: 4 / 12 PG wins (33.3%) — ZCT151 (Indy), ZCT153 (NSX), ZCT156 (Vette), ZCT158 (Ferrari) — 8 / 12 non-PG (66.7%).

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT162	Duplode	Porsche Carrera 4 (Carrera)	No
ZCT163	Akoss Poo	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No
ZCT164	Akoss Poo	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT165	Akoss Poo	Gate (custom)	No
ZCT166	Duplode	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT167	Duplode	Lancia Delta Integrale	No
ZCT168	Duplode & Akoss Poo (tie)	Lamborghini Countach (Lambo)	No
ZCT169	Akoss Poo	Lamborghini LM002	No
ZCT170	Duplode	Jaguar XJR-9 (Jaguar)	No
ZCT171	Duplode	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes
ZCT172	Duplode	Melange XGT-88 (Melange)	No
ZCT173	Duplode	Audi Quattro (Audi)	No

2015 recap
• Total wins (counting the ZCT168 tie for both): Duplode 8; Akoss Poo 5.
• Streaks: Duplode's longest streak = 4 (ZCT170–ZCT173). Akoss Poo's longest streak = 3 (ZCT163–ZCT165). The ZCT168 tie counts as a win for both.
• PG vs non-PG (by races won): 3/12 PG (25.0%) — ZCT164 (NSX), ZCT166 (Indy), ZCT171 (Ferrari GTO); 9/12 non-PG (75.0%).
• Per driver, PG share: Duplode 2/8 = 25.0%; Akoss Poo 1/5 = 20.0%.

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT174	Renato Biker	Ferrari F40 (F40)	No
ZCT175	Renato Biker	Porsche 911 Turbo	No
ZCT176	Renato Biker	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT177	Renato Biker	Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 (Vette)	Yes
ZCT178	Duplode	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT179	Renato Biker	Porsche Carrera 4 (Carrera)	No
ZCT180	Renato Biker	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No
ZCT181	Duplode	Lamborghini LM002	No
ZCT182	Marco	Lotus Esprit (Lotus)	No
ZCT183	Marco	Lancia Delta Integrale	No
ZCT184	Marco	Jaguar XJR-9 (Jaguar)	No
ZCT185	Marco	Nissan Skyline (Skyline)	No

2016 recap

Total wins: Renato Biker 6; Marco 4; Duplode 2.


Streaks: Renato Biker opened with four straight (ZCT174–ZCT177) and later added two (ZCT179–ZCT180); Marco closed with four straight (ZCT182–ZCT185).


PG vs. non-PG among winners: 3 / 12 PG wins (25.0%) — ZCT176 (Porsche March Indy), ZCT177 (Corvette ZR-1), ZCT178 (Acura NSX); 9 / 12 non-PG wins (75.0%).

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT186	FinRok	Melange	No
ZCT187	Marco	Lamborghini Countach (Lambo)	No
ZCT188	FinRok	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes
ZCT189	FinRok	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No
ZCT190	Duplode	Audi Quattro	No
ZCT191	Duplode	Porsche 911 Turbo	No
ZCT192	Marco	Ferrari F40	No
ZCT193	FinRok	Porsche Carrera 4	No
ZCT194	dreadnaut	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT195	FinRok	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT196	FinRok	Lamborghini LM002	No
ZCT197	Duplode	Jaguar XJR-9	No

2017 recap

Wins: FinRok 6; Duplode 3; Marco 2; dreadnaut 1.

Streaks: FinRok twice with 2-in-a-row (ZCT188–189, ZCT195–196); Duplode 2-in-a-row (ZCT190–191).

PG vs non-PG (winners): 3/12 PG wins (25.0%) — ZCT188 (Ferrari 288 GTO), ZCT194 (Indy), ZCT195 (Acura NSX); 9/12 non-PG wins (75.0%).

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT198	Duplode	McLaren	No
ZCT199	Duplode	Lancia Delta Integrale	No
ZCT200	CTG	Melange	No
ZCT201	FinRok	Nissan Skyline (R32)	No
ZCT202	Alan Rotoi	Lamborghini Countach (Lambo)	No
ZCT203	Duplode	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT204	Duplode	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No
ZCT205	CTG	Audi Quattro (Audi)	No
ZCT206	Duplode	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes
ZCT207	CTG	Ferrari F40 (F40)	No
ZCT208	CTG	Lamborghini LM002 (LM002)	No
ZCT209	FinRok	Jaguar XJR-9 (Jaguar)	No

2018 recap
• Wins: Duplode 5; CTG 4; FinRok 2; Alan Rotoi 1.
• Longest streaks: 2 in a row (Duplode twice: ZCT198–199 and ZCT203–204; CTG once: ZCT207–208).
• PG vs non-PG (winners): 2/12 PG wins (16.7%) — ZCT203 (Acura NSX) and ZCT206 (Ferrari 288 GTO); 10/12 non-PG wins (83.3%).
• Per-driver PG share (2018): Duplode 2/5 (40%); CTG 0/4; FinRok 0/2; Alan Rotoi 0/1.

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT210	dreadnaut	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT211	Marco	Ranger	No
ZCT212	FinRok	Porsche Carrera 4	No
ZCT213	FinRok	Kart	No
ZCT214	FinRok	Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1	Yes
ZCT215	Overdrijf	Audi DTM	No
ZCT216	Marco	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No
ZCT217	Duplode	Audi Quattro	No
ZCT218	Marco	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT219	Alan Rotoi	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT220	CTG	Kart	No
ZCT221	FinRok	Ranger	No

2019 recap
• Wins: FinRok 4; Marco 3; Duplode 1; Overdrijf 1; Alan Rotoi 1; CTG 1; dreadnaut 1.
• Streaks: FinRok won three in a row (ZCT212–ZCT214).
• PG vs non-PG (winners): 4/12 PG (33.3%) — ZCT210 (Indy), ZCT214 (ZR-1), ZCT218 (NSX), ZCT219 (Indy); 8/12 non-PG (66.7%).

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT222	Duplode	Lamborghini (Lambo)	No
ZCT223	Duplode	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT224	Duplode	Audi DTM	No
ZCT225	Seeker1982	Lamborghini LM002	No
ZCT226	Duplode	Ferrari F40	No
ZCT227	CTG	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT228	Duplode	Toyota Trueno	No
ZCT229	FinRok	Lancia Delta Integrale	No
ZCT230	Duplode	Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1	Yes
ZCT231	CTG	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No
ZCT232	CTG	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT233	Duplode	Porsche Carrera 4	No

2020 recap

Total wins: Duplode 7; CTG 3; Seeker1982 1; FinRok 1.

Streaks: Duplode 3 in a row (ZCT222–ZCT224); CTG 2 in a row (ZCT231–ZCT232).

PG vs non-PG (race winners): 4/12 PG (33.3%); 8/12 non-PG (66.7%).

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT234	Duplode	Jaguar	No
ZCT235	CTG	Lotus	No
ZCT236	CTG	Melange	No
ZCT237	Duplode	Vette (Corvette ZR-1)	Yes
ZCT238	Alan Rotoi	Lambo	No
ZCT239	Alan Rotoi	BMW DTM	No
ZCT240	Alan Rotoi	Ferrari (GTO)	Yes
ZCT241	Alan Rotoi	Indy (Porsche March Indy)	Yes
ZCT242	Alan Rotoi	Acura (NSX)	Yes
ZCT243	Duplode	Audi	No
ZCT244	Duplode	Vette (Corvette ZR-1)	Yes
ZCT245	Alan Rotoi	LM002	No

2021 recap

Total wins: Alan Rotoi 6; Duplode 4; CTG 2.

Streaks: Alan Rotoi five in a row (ZCT238–ZCT242). CTG two in a row (ZCT235–ZCT236). Duplode two in a row (ZCT243–ZCT244).

PG vs non-PG (winners): 5/12 PG (41.7%); 7/12 non-PG (58.3%).

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT246	Alan Rotoi	Lancia Delta Integrale	No
ZCT247	Alan Rotoi	Porsche Carrera 4 (Carrera)	No
ZCT248	Alan Rotoi	Caterham	No
ZCT249	Duplode	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No
ZCT250	Alan Rotoi	CERV III	No
ZCT251	dreadnaut	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes
ZCT252	Duplode	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT253	Alan Rotoi	Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 (Vette)	Yes
ZCT254	Alan Rotoi	Jaguar XJR-9 (Jaguar)	No
ZCT255	Duplode	Audi Quattro (Audi)	No
ZCT256	Alan Rotoi	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT257	Duplode	Lamborghini Countach (Lambo)	No

2022 recap

Wins: Alan Rotoi 7; Duplode 4; dreadnaut 1.

Streaks: Alan Rotoi 3 in a row (ZCT246–ZCT248) and 2 in a row (ZCT253–ZCT254).

PG vs non-PG (winners): 4/12 PG (33.3%) — ZCT251 (Ferrari GTO), ZCT252 (Acura NSX), ZCT253 (Corvette ZR-1), ZCT256 (Porsche March Indy) — 8/12 non-PG (66.7%).

end of first part... follow on the next posts my friends!

[Alain il professore]

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT258	Duplode	Lancia Delta Integrale	No
ZCT259	Duplode	CERV III	No
ZCT260	Argammon	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes
ZCT261	Argammon	Corvette ZR-1 (Vette)	Yes
ZCT262	Argammon	McLaren	No
ZCT263	Argammon	Audi	No
ZCT264	Argammon	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes
ZCT265	Duplode	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT266	Duplode	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT267	Argammon	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT268	Argammon	Pantera	No
ZCT269	Argammon	Challenger	No

2023 recap

Wins: Argammon 8; Duplode 4.

Streaks: Argammon 5 in a row (ZCT260→ZCT264), then 3 in a row (ZCT267→ZCT269).

PG vs non-PG (winners): 6/12 PG (50%); 6/12 non-PG (50%).

Per driver (PG wins): Argammon 4/8; Duplode 2/4.

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT270	Alan Rotoi	Jaguar XJR-9	No
ZCT271	Duplode	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No
ZCT272	Duplode	Lancia Stratos	No
ZCT273	Argammon	Lamborghini LM002	No
ZCT274	Duplode	Ferrari F40	No
ZCT275	Duplode	ZR1-GT3	No
ZCT276	Duplode	Porsche Carrera 4 (Carrera)	No
ZCT277	Alan Rotoi	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT278	Duplode	Lola	No
ZCT279	Duplode	Lancia Delta Integrale	No
ZCT280	Argammon	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT281	Duplode	Jaguar XJR-9	No

2024 recap

Wins: Duplode 8; Alan Rotoi 2; Argammon 2.

Streaks: Duplode max streak 3 (ZCT274–ZCT276).

PG vs non-PG (winners): 2/12 PG (16.7%) — ZCT277 (Indy), ZCT280 (Indy); 10/12 non-PG (83.3%).

Per driver (PG wins): Duplode 0/8; Alan Rotoi 1/2; Argammon 1/2.

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT282	Alan Rotoi	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT283	Argammon	Lamborghini Diablo VT	No
ZCT284	Argammon	Corvette ZR-1 (Vette)	Yes
ZCT285	Argammon	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes
ZCT286	Argammon	Chevrolet Camaro	No
ZCT287	Argammon	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT288	Argammon	Peugeot Oxia	No
ZCT289	Argammon	Corvette ZR-1 (Vette)	Yes

2025 recap

Wins: Argammon 7; Alan Rotoi 1.

Streaks: Argammon 7 in a row (ZCT283→ZCT289).

PG vs non-PG (winners, this year): 5/8 PG (62.5%) — ZCT282, 284, 285, 287, 289.

Driver	Total wins	PG wins	PG win %
Duplode	27	7	25.9%
Argammon	17	9	52.9%
Alan Rotoi	16	7	43.8%
CTG	5	2	40.0%
dreadnaut	1	1	100.0%
Seeker1982	1	0	0.0%
FinRok	1	0	0.0%
Overall (all winners)	68	26	38.2%

Conclusion (2012–2025)

Key aggregate result.
Across 2012–2025 (all ZCT races we compiled for those seasons), winners used a PowerGear (PG) car — defined here as Acura NSX, Ferrari 288 GTO, Porsche March Indy, Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 — in 50 of 164 races, i.e. ≈ 30.5% of wins. The remainder (≈ 69.5%) were won with non-PG cars.

Year-to-year variability.
The PG share fluctuates substantially by season (PG wins / races that year):

2012: 25.0%

2013: 16.7%

2014: 33.3%

2015: 25.0%

2016: 25.0%

2017: 25.0%

2018: 16.7%

2019: 33.3%

2020: 33.3%

2021: 41.7%

2022: 33.3%

2023: 50.0%

2024: 16.7%

2025: 62.5% (note: shorter season sample in 2025)

These swings show that calendar composition and track selection (which tracks appear in which season) strongly affect the PG / non-PG balance.

Interpretation with respect to the "two groups" hypothesis.
The data do not support a strict partition of drivers into two non-overlapping groups (PG-dominant vs non-PG-dominant). Instead, the evidence is best described as:

A stable top tier of drivers who adapt their car choices to tracks and can win in both categories; and

A track-driven effect such that some seasons or clusters of races favor PG cars (higher PG percentage) while others favor non-PG cars.

Afterword from "Il Professore", my insight for the community:

First and foremost, there is nothing to compare in 2023 and 2025 with the famous titles of Ayrton in 2005 or Renato biker titles in 2006, 2010 and 2013, they didn't benefit of so many PG tracks while honing their wins on mostly skilled driving on non PG cars.

Second, this season, there should not be a single other PG track. We already got too much!

Third, if in effect the season winner takes all the last non PG tracks, so be it my friends, the wrong can't be righted this year, its far too late, the winner of 2023 (50% PG tracks) has been favored also in 25 (62.5% PG tracks), with an improbably high set of PG designed tracks that suited best his talent. In the future, with an enlightened supervision and inclusive leadership, the number of PG tracks should be monitored closely a year ahead aiming to historical average of 30% PG tracks, to prevent another PG track discrepancy season.


Bonus tables from the golden generation of Stunts in 2005, a perfectly balanced competition, with a different winner almost every month, which is long gone but never forgotten!

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT047	Alan Rotoi	Ferrari	Yes
ZCT048	CTG	Jaguar	No
ZCT049	CTG	Porsche Carrera (Carrera)	No
ZCT050	Alain	Melange	No
ZCT051	Gutix	Audi	No
ZCT052	Ayrton	Lamborghini (Lambo)	No
ZCT053	Akoss Poo	Porsche March Indy (Indy)	Yes
ZCT054	Ayrton	Lamborghini LM002 (LM002)	No
ZCT055	Bonzai Joe	Acura NSX (Acura)	Yes
ZCT056	Ayrton	Porsche 962 IMSA (P962)	No
ZCT057	Chulk	Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 (Vette)	Yes
ZCT058	Ayrton	Lancia	No

Recap for 2005 (numbers & brief observations)

Total races: 12 (ZCT047–ZCT058).

Wins by driver: Ayrton 4; CTG 2; Alan Rotoi 1; Alain 1; Gutix 1; Akoss Poo 1; Bonzai Joe 1; Chulk 1.

PG (the four PG car types: Acura NSX, Ferrari GTO/288 GTO, Porsche March Indy, Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1) — wins: 4 / 12 = 33.3%.

PG-winning races: ZCT047 (Ferrari), ZCT053 (Indy), ZCT055 (Acura), ZCT057 (Vette).

Per-driver PG-win rates (2005):

Ayrton: 0 / 4 = 0% PG wins.

CTG: 0 / 2 = 0% PG wins.

Alan Rotoi: 1 / 1 = 100% (Ferrari).

Akoss Poo: 1 / 1 = 100% (Indy).

Bonzai Joe: 1 / 1 = 100% (Acura).

Chulk: 1 / 1 = 100% (Vette).

Alain, Gutix: 0% (their single wins were non-PG).

Thank you for taking some time reading, reflecting and, finally, creating a better Zakstunts competition!

[Alain il professore]

Oh, one more thing.

I found the bottom of the PG iceberg: the definitive proof that excessive PG cars can break the meta.

The introduction of balanced bonuses for cars? 2008! Ok it was a testing year but look...

It was the worst season ever regarding the meta, period.

But I respect Ayrton as much as any other Zakstunts title winners in history!

Look at the carnage!

Track	Winner	Car	PG?
ZCT080	Ayrton	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT081	Ayrton	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT082	Ayrton	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes
ZCT083	Ayrton	Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 (Vette)	Yes
ZCT084	Ayrton	Porsche March Indy	Yes
ZCT085	Ayrton	Lancia Delta Integrale	No
ZCT086	Ayrton	Acura NSX	Yes
ZCT087	Ayrton	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes
ZCT088	Ayrton	Lamborghini Countach (Lambo)	No
ZCT089	Ayrton	Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 (Vette)	Yes
ZCT090	Ayrton	Ferrari 288 GTO	Yes

2008 recap

Wins: Ayrton 11/11 (clean sweep).

PG vs non-PG among winners: 9/11 PG (81.8%), 2/11 non-PG (18.2%).

Longest season streak: Ayrton 11 in a row (ZCT080→ZCT090). 1 more win in 2007 for a 12 in a row guinness book record.

[dreadnaut]

Interpretation with respect to the "two groups" hypothesis.
The data do not support a strict partition of drivers into two non-overlapping groups (PG-dominant vs non-PG-dominant). Instead, the evidence is best described as:
- A stable top tier of drivers who adapt their car choices to tracks and can win in both categories; and
- A track-driven effect such that some seasons or clusters of races favor PG cars (higher PG percentage) while others favor non-PG cars.

Thank you Alain, happy to see you agree with my understanding of the situation.

A good example of a strong pipsqueak who can drive PG and non-PG is indeed @Argammon, since you mention him, who after his return has reached the podium in all races, 12 times with a powergear car, and 13 with other cars. He's as strong a driver as I've seen.

But you seem bent on some kind of vendetta here, which you cannot hide behind extra-wordy, automatically generated copy. It's shameful and childish that you have not acknowledged his apology, and that you bring the bitterness out on the forum.

I have overseen a decade of this community working together and supporting each other, and if your approach is to dissimulate and divide and attack, you are not welcome — on the forum, the shoutbox, and other community groups.

If you enjoy racing with us, the competitions are here. Other amateur agreeing, I am happy to move you to the Amateur League in ZakStunts, where you will be able to race with different goals.


Regarding the original matter of this thread. Let me summarise the situation:

- ZakStunts is the freestyle competition, and includes shortcuts and powergear
- It does its thing, it tries not to overlap nor compete with other competitions
- The Amateur League exists for those who prefer a less technical challenge
- We will discuss rule tweaks in the regular thread that will appear in the next week
- Nothing's on fire, the world's not ending, the gods died long ago


And finally, the continuous rambling and complaining and attacking in every possible thread must stop. You can "disagree and commit", and work to really help the community (e.g., organising awesome events!), or find something else to do with your life, elsewhere.

[Victor Narl]

@dreadnaut, Please respond regarding my proposal Yesterday at 02:11:20 PM

[Alain il professore]

Interpretation with respect to the "two groups" hypothesis.
The data do not support a strict partition of drivers into two non-overlapping groups (PG-dominant vs non-PG-dominant). Instead, the evidence is best described as:
- A stable top tier of drivers who adapt their car choices to tracks and can win in both categories; and
- A track-driven effect such that some seasons or clusters of races favor PG cars (higher PG percentage) while others favor non-PG cars.

Thank you Alain, happy to see you agree with my understanding of the situation.

A good example of a strong pipsqueak who can drive PG and non-PG is indeed @Argammon, since you mention him, who after his return has reached the podium in all races, 12 times with a powergear car, and 13 with other cars. He's as strong a driver as I've seen.

But you seem bent on some kind of vendetta here, which you cannot hide behind extra-wordy, automatically generated copy. It's shameful and childish that you have not acknowledged his apology, and that you bring the bitterness out on the forum.

I have overseen a decade of this community working together and supporting each other, and if your approach is to dissimulate and divide and attack, you are not welcome — on the forum, the shoutbox, and other community groups.

If you enjoy racing with us, the competitions are here. Other amateur agreeing, I am happy to move you to the Amateur League in ZakStunts, where you will be able to race with different goals.


Regarding the original matter of this thread. Let me summarise the situation:

- ZakStunts is the freestyle competition, and includes shortcuts and powergear
- It does its thing, it tries not to overlap nor compete with other competitions
- The Amateur League exists for those who prefer a less technical challenge
- We will discuss rule tweaks in the regular thread that will appear in the next week
- Nothing's on fire, the world's not ending, the gods died long ago


And finally, the continuous rambling and complaining and attacking in every possible thread must stop. You can "disagree and commit", and work to really help the community (e.g., organising awesome events!), or find something else to do with your life, elsewhere.

Happy you got your answer!

I'm just spotting patterns and drinking detox bio tea. I know Stunts history will take account of the higher than normal irregular number of PG tracks in 2008, 2023 and 2025. Hopefully I'm not writing for your eyes only, that I hope I respecfully aknowledged with some lights, but also for the records.

[Argammon]

@Alain il professore:

This thread contains quite a lot of text for what is essentially a single, straightforward line of reasoning:

• Observation: Argammon wins a higher share of PG races than most other top pipsqueaks.
• Fact: Alain does not like Argammon.
• (2+3) --> Develop arguments suggesting: Winning PG races does not demonstrate skill --> Therefore, Argammon's championship has little value.
• (2+3) --> Develop arguments suggesting: Winning with a PG car is detrimental to the community (e.g., creates perceived unfairness, may discourage newcomers).

If framed this way, the discussion would be more concise and transparent.

I'd also note that "spotting patterns" is only useful if those patterns are interpreted correctly. In this case, the percentage of PG wins in a season depends not only on tracks, but also on the car coefficients and the mix of participating drivers.

• Example – ZCT 288: @KyLiE showed that a Corvette PG lap was possible, but its coefficient was too low compared to the Oxia. --> Had the Corvette's coefficient been slightly higher, we might have seen another PG win.