Good work Mingva; searching for new ISA-Members

[Anonymous]

Hi.



Sorry again for the neverending long break on the ISA-page. I hope you are happy with the new administrator of the ISA - Mingva. I think he is doing good work.



We are searching now for a new ISA-structure. At the moment we have the following situation:



ISA-Headquaters: Ruepel, Pershing II, Agent Orange

Extraordinal Member and site administrator: Mingva



We want to change this. The structure must be more transparent and open to the public.



FROM TODAY THE ISA-HEADQUATERS DOESN'T EXIST AND WE ARE SEARCHING FOR NEW ISA-MEMBERS!!!



The idea of the new ISA is not to have one competition, but to be an organisation of all stunts-sites. Individual competitions, but also one site where the drivers can find all statistics to the different competitions. The latest results would always be on the individual competition-site, but the past results would be collected on one site.



I think the new structure should include a president (Should be a neutral person, means no site administrator) and a Headquater with all the site administrators.



New Structure:



ISA-President:



Vizes: (Site-)Administrators, Public Manager (should advertise stunts and find new pipsqueaks or possibilities to make stunts more popular); Maybe you know other important jobs for the ISA???



The Basement: A foundation for ISA-Members without a ''job'', for example drivers or fans. This members will be also able to make decisions, for example they will be able to elect the president, the public manager and so on.



SO: At the moment we have just two ISA-Members:

Mingva and me, Pershing II.



If you also want to join the ISA (it's open now for everybody), tell me via e-mail (pershingII@gmx.at) or say it in the forum.



LET'S START AGAIN!!!

[zaqrack]

my opinion:



as a former anarchist and now a true apolitical men I really don`t want to support anything, that has a president or governor or hell knows what.

We have enough from these in the real world, politicians, teachers, directors, bosses, it`s so great that there`s a community where it`s almost true democracy.

And if not in a shorter, then in a longer term any type of government only has negative effects on the community feeling.

Of course, there`s a point when someone has to coordinate the stunts community. But I believe, that point will come, when we have 10 BIG competitions, with 20-30 pipsqueaks each.



But I guess some organization would be good. Like the score archives site with links to all team-pages and competition pages. The best thing would be a unified team system, so 1 pipsqueak is only member of one team, and not more. That would be great. Of course someone should master the site maybe, but if someone writes an update form, there`s no need for webmaster though, because all competition-runners can make updates, and all pipsqueaks can post comments and news.



But definitely not a president-manager-other thing. I`m just a stunts-pipsqueak, like everyone else who races, and I don`t want to be anything else, and I don`t want anybody else has more rights than a simple pipsqueak.



Zak

[Mingva]

Take it easy Zak   Pershing wants to do a great organization, a democratic Stunts comp., where all Stunts drivers can elect manager. It's disgusting to see dictatorial Zak's Stunts Competition  



But I wanted to write here my vision of ISA committee. So, I think that in ISA have to be up to 4 Stunts drivers [a.k.a. maniacs]. They would be responsible for:

1) replays/results (scoreboard);

2) articles about ISA and other Stunts competitions, also for other related things from Stunts life;

3) site design/update;

4) all statistical information (worldranklist, drivers data, etc.);

5) stuff/entertainment and popularising Stunts in/over the net (like Stunts scouts).

[Anonymous]

In Advance: Zak, to make it clear: I would never try to have a war with you. You helped ISA to get popular and so we will always thank you for your help, also if the following comments may sound a bit offensive against you.



=> comment:



Anarcho, Apolitical??? Not you. I remember when there where elections in hungary, you said that you hope that your favourite party wins. So you must be interested in politics at least a bit when you have a favourite party.  



Don't be scared Saddam, we won't attack your little (or big?!) dictatorship, if we will manage to make a big ISA. We will rather help you to find new drivers and advertise your site. You can be like Switzerland if you want, not in the UN, but a good partner.



I knew from the beginning when I posted my plan that you will be the first who will post a comment and who will be against this plan. Zak, the most individualistic site-admin.



I am (like Mingva said) in the opinion that Stunts should be more democratic. My dream was always to have a worldwide unique league. Just one great competition where all the best drivers drive against each other. Well organized teams and maybe some institutions like virtual money to make it all more interesting. But now I know that Stunts needs its freedom. It's a game. Not everything has to be strictly organized. No dictatorship, but a small democracy would be the best. At the moment our Stuntsworld is an Anarchy!



ISA should be a democratical institution FOR the drivers and not an institution which rules with the drivers.



I think ISA will help us to communicate and will give the drivers a better chance to express their wishes, opinions. Let's make Stunts more open, let the drivers decide what the rules should be, what competitions we should make and so on.



By the way, I think a bit of politics would make Stunts more interesting. Politics are emotions and emotions is what people need, otherwise everything would get boring.



Mingva: very good suggestion for the structure!

[zaqrack]

>In Advance: Zak, to make it clear: I would never try to >have a war with you. You helped ISA to get popular

me neither, this was never a question. Of course there`s a bit rivalisation between the sites, but that`s fun and a must. Now I`m a bit fed up, sorry.



>Anarcho, Apolitical??? Not you. I remember when there >where elections in hungary, you said that you hope >that your favourite party wins. So you must be >interested in politics at least a bit when you have a >favourite party.  

Well, you didn`t live here in that days. People on the publis transport shouted with eachother just because one of them liked one big party, and the other liked the other. I have to vote, because extremist parties are quite strong in Hungary, and if I don`t go and vote, then I vote for them. I never said that they`ll win, because it`s a really small party, just hoped they`ll make people think a bit. But this whole doesn`t mean that I like politics, I really hate this all.

And I was an anarcho a little bit when I was younger, I had such friends, and also I had a comb for  (fortunately just   a week.  



> Don't be scared Saddam, we won't attack your little >or big?!) dictatorship, if we will manage to make a big >ISA. We will rather help you to find new drivers and >advertise your site. You can be like Switzerland if you >want, not in the UN, but a good partner.

Do you think this is a dictatorship? Don`t really think so. I never did anything against other competitions. We have the same chances, same ways to get pipsqueaks. I started my comp 9 months before, that`s the only thing I`ve advantage in. Everything else depends on our attitude and our work.    



>I knew from the beginning when I posted my plan that >you will be the first who will post a comment and who >will be against this plan. Zak, the most individualistic >site-admin.

That`s only because:

1. I`m one of the few that currently run a competition.

2. I read the forum daily, and on the net I always write my opinion about things I like/dislike. Maybe because I`m a bit shy in the real world, maybe not. Your decision. And I`m not the only one who doesn`t like your idea,



>I am (like Mingva said) in the opinion that Stunts >should be more democratic. My dream was always to

Why do you feel it`s not democratic this way? Did I (or other comp. runners) did something that makes us feel bigger than pipsqueaks?



>have a worldwide unique league. Just one great >competition where all the best drivers drive against >each other. Well organized teams and maybe some

Even if I`d like this idea, I`d say it`ll never work. But I don`t like it. Democracy is the right to have your own choice, and not in the way that you may join the big competition, or not. If all current stunts-competitions would merge together, then I`d bet that in a half year there`ll be a new one outside the big, and it`ll be very popular. And then you could try to start merging that comp into your big democratic one.

>institutions like virtual money to make it all more >interesting. But now I know that Stunts needs its

>freedom. It's a game. Not everything has to be strictly >organized. No dictatorship, but a small democracy >would be the best. At the moment our Stuntsworld is >an Anarchy!

And I really like it that way. I can join the competitions I`d like to join, I can chat with those I`d like to chat, if I`m a pipsqueak I can start my own competition whenever I want, and I can finish this thing whenever I like. What is missing? For me nothing, except some more pipsqueaks.



>ISA should be a democratical institution FOR the drivers >and not an institution which rules with the drivers.

>I think ISA will help us to communicate and will give the >drivers a better chance to express their wishes, >opinions. Let's make Stunts more open, let the drivers >decide what the rules should be, what competitions we >should make and so on.

They decide about these now too. One week before we just made the competition's 2003 rules with alanrotoi and Bonzai Joe, and then I asked some other pipsqueak`s opinion about it, modified it, now it`s up on the site, everyone can read it, and can suggest modifications.

Stunts community cannot be more opener that it`s now. It`s just a bit too much concentrated to this site, and I guess this is the thing that disturbs you.



I did recommend to move to the chatroom #stunts instead of #zakstunts.cjb.net. Chatters said they like it this way.



I`d do a new forum -not site oriented-, but an own topic for every forum, every team anytime, the only thing that stops me, that I can`t transfer the messages we`ve written already.



I always assisted a stunts-portal, I could even make it, but I don`t want to, because then you`d say the same as now, and you`d have the same problems as now -that I may control too much of the stunts community.



I think that too. But fortunately it seems that it doesn`t disturb the most of the drivers, and lots of them like the things that I do. Of course I enjoy that currently I have the biggest comp.site, who wouldn`t? But I started it from nothing, built it up with the help of the pipsqueaks, and never felt it`s just mine. It`s ours. I`m just a happy man who can manage it.



>By the way, I think a bit of politics would make Stunts >more interesting. Politics are emotions and emotions is >what people need, otherwise everything would get >boring.

I believe people have enough politics in the real life. They have emotions in the stunts world too. Every pipsqueak could send at least one pipsqueak who he likes/dislikes/admires. I think what people don`t need is distribution, and you just managed to distribute pipsqueaks a bit, with this idea, as politics alays generate distrubition and hate,  and this will be much more worse if you decide to do the main ISA site. I wish you lots of luck and stength to do it, and build a big community, but thanks, I feel myself good as it is now, with the competition and rival competitions there are, the small but strong community, and the friends I`ve discovered.

Just one thing I ask: don`t destroy this we have now.

Stunts is an old game, and if those kids who are 8-12 years old now grow up a bit, they won`t play stunts as a nostalgic game. They`ll play NFS, Midtown Madness and Gran Turismo. There`s only a thin layer of those who play stunts as a maniac, because those who played stunts as a kid are growing up, and people above/around 30 think about their job and family, and not stunts. I REALLY admire those who play stunts when they`re over 25, really.



And sorry if I sounded offensive. I was just a bit angry.



Zak

[Anonymous]

Quote: Do you think this is a dictatorship?



Yes, one that is getting more and more a Democracy. But a few months ago, it was a true dictatorship. For example we had once a discussion about common rules and at this time your answer sounds like from a real dictator in contrast to Roys. You said you are the boss and you make the rules. I think that's ok, but then you shouldn't be surprised when some people are comparing you with a dictator.



Quote: And I`m not the only one who doesn`t like your idea.



Every idea has its enemies, but at the moment I don't know anybody else who feels angry about my idea.



Quote:  ///>have a worldwide unique league. Just one great >competition where all the best drivers drive against >each other. Well organized teams and maybe some///  

Even if I`d like this idea, I`d say it`ll never work. But I don`t like it. Democracy is the right to have your own choice, and not in the way that you may join the big competition, or not. If all current stunts-competitions would merge together, then I`d bet that in a half year there`ll be a new one outside the big, and it`ll be very popular. And then you could try to start merging that comp into your big democratic one.





To make it clear: I said my dream WAS such a league before I started the ISA-site. Now I dream of a big organisation with different competitions but with one central statistic-site and a common news-site.



Quote: It`s just a bit too much concentrated to this site, and I guess this is the thing that disturbs you.



No, I really love this site, but what disturbs me is that it's too much concentrated on your person.



Quote: I did recommend to move to the chatroom #stunts instead of #zakstunts.cjb.net. Chatters said they like it this way.



That's good. It is Stunts and not Zaks Stunts.



Quote: What is missing? For me nothing, except some more pipsqueaks.



later:



Quote: I feel myself good as it is now, with the competition and rival competitions there are, the small but strong community, and the friends I`ve discovered.



So, what do you want now???

Sometimes you say it would be great to have a community of 50-100 pipsqueaks , but sometimes you say its good how it is.



I do also like the community as it is now, but I would prefer a bigger on. Then Stunts will have better chances to stay alive.



Quote: Just one thing I ask: don`t destroy this we have now.



How should I manage this??? I can't say: Hey guys, stop racing! People want to play Stunts and as long as they want it, they don't care who makes the competition and if the admins quarrel, it's important for them that there is a competition.



Quote: I always assisted a stunts-portal, I could even make it, but I don`t want to, because then you`d say the same as now, and you`d have the same problems as now -that I may control too much of the stunts community.



And that's the problem: You say you can make a stunts-portal and you combine it with that, that you will control it. You can't say: I will install a stunts-portal where everybody will have the chance to work on it.



You have always the fear to lose your individuality, that's the problem...

[zaqrack]

Quote: Quote:



Do you think this is a dictatorship?



Yes, one that is getting more and more a Democracy. But a few months ago, it was a true dictatorship. For example we had once a discussion about common rules and at this time your answer sounds like from a real dictator in contrast to Roys. You said you are the boss and you make the rules. I think that's ok, but then you shouldn't be surprised when some people are comparing you with a dictator.



Copy it for me. I`m sure there was a smiley after it or a line later. The only area where you can say dictator on me is disqualifying a replay. Nothing else.



Quote:

No, I really love this site, but what disturbs me is that it's too much concentrated on your person.



And if there'll be an ISA president, don't you think it'll be MUCH MORE concentrated to THAT person???

I have a bigger competition at the moment than yours?, and I started the forum/chat room under my name (was a mistake), that's what's disturbing you.







Quote:

So, what do you want now???

Sometimes you say it would be great to have a community of 50-100 pipsqueaks , but sometimes you say its good how it is.



This means, that I'd really like to have some more competitors, but I wouldn't feel sad, if it stays with this number. I just like it this way too, it's not a must to change.



Quote:

How should I manage this??? I can't say: Hey guys, stop racing! People want to play Stunts and as long as they want it, they don't care who makes the competition and if the admins quarrel, it's important for them that there is a competition.



Not exactly true. The quality of the competition is really important, and it is strongly binded to the admin. People won't play at badly organised competitions, they'll make a new one instead.



Quote:

And that's the problem: You say you can make a stunts-portal and you combine it with that, that you will control it. You can't say: I will install a stunts-portal where everybody will have the chance to work on it.



1. Yes, if I do a webpage, I assume I have rights to be the admin, because it's the result of my hard work.

2. I exactly said that anyone could work on it, a portal is the synonime of a multi-user updated site - using a php based admin interface. But someone has to control/correct the interface, don't you think?

3. I would gladly pass these rights to anyone, I don't know how much you program a computer, but have you ever tried to understand an other programmers code? It's damn hard job, and you can never do it perfectly.



Quote:

You have always the fear to lose your individuality, that's the problem...



Of course I am! I made this site, I run it, I love it, and I want to run it for a long time. I always question pipsqueaks about updates/rules/new ideas, and I'm happy if anyone helps. I'd be happy too if there'd be a second or third admin. They'd have the same rights as me - if you remember back there were two chances:

1. second admin

2. php&sql based site



I chose the second now, because my kind cousine helped me, and it's a great thing.







I had anough of this useless flame. You began that you won't offend me/site, and you exactly did this trhe whole time. I wrote my thoughts about ISA's new plans, and then you started flaming about how much stunts world is currently concentrated around me.

It's OK, you don't like that I control too much, I may. But as long as I got almost only positive reactions please give me the rights to admin my competition they way I like it. I'll always listen to your suggestions, and I'll always use those ideas that at least 51% of the pipsqueaks like, even if I'm in the 49%.

And if you don't like that this is the biggest comp. at the moment, build a bigger one. I'll be happy, because I like racing, and then there'll be much more challenge for me.



And to prevent any misunderstandings and arguements later, here I promise:



1. I won't join ISA, even if there's no president, I wanted to, but now I have enough after this all.



2. I won't do any organisation like that, against yours, but I gladly host any new competition or stunts related idea on the site, if I'm asked to help. (have to write this, because it seems that there'll be an other competition on the site, partly ran by an other pipsqueak from january, I was already asked.)



3. I'll rename the site at the moment I find out a good name for it.



4. If I'll start thinking I'm the dictator, I'll put a little red flag on the banner instead the Lamborghini, to tell everyone.





Over and out.



Zak













 

[zaqrack]

And for everyone who was reading this all:



I`m sure I can say that in Pershing`s name too, that these were only our opinions as single people. No team, no site, no organization, no country, no god knows what.

Forgive us.  



Zak

[Anonymous]

Yes, that's right. I spoke as a single person and not in the name of ISA or in the name of any driver.



And yes, I do also have enough of this discussion, because I am got tired writing all this long comments and finding topics where I can attack Zak.



And now I tell why I was so angry after Zaks first reply:



I wanted Zak as the president, if we couldn't find a neutral one.....  



Sorry to all.

[al il professore]

when u want help, or need to build something, u dont knock at the right door if its the fox door. Try to knock on the good door next time.



All i know is that stunts need no portal, because its strong enough right now, in a way it never had been played at this level, and by so few and motivated commitee. Lets plan to be the last stunts knights and sit on it. Dont try to build on stunts, just love the way it lives again and hope the last bursts of fire will last longer.



plus, there are all around the world the seeds of new stunts pipsqueaks, u can go to stuntslol and play there, do stunts citizen acts like that it will help more.



do the snake in the stunts curves, play stunts, and stop doing the snake in forums. I wait for rpls in every competition available from all of u, its the only stunts way of life we need. I'd like to blow on stunts to make it burn stronger too. i think the best way is to play stunts oftener and oftener. thats all. and thats much. Look at all those religion losers... they dont play anymore and some of them speak about stunts again and again. I can imagine that stunts valhalla is full of stunts players, that crave to play stunts everyday. The miscreants say they play but they lie, and inside they say stunts is not my god... I don't obey to stunts.



When u play stunts u accomplish the ancient desire of the first mammals. To drive fast on clean boulevards. and to jump high and touch those clouds over there.



when i see ooooll those empty sophisms i think to myself; "say: in name of stunts the mighty of the mightiests".

[zaqrack]

Quote: I wanted Zak as the president, if we couldn't find a neutral one.....





:-D

must be joking.  

I'm happy I've got enough time for the site...

and racing...

and chatting...

and posting stupid things in the forum...

and desgining this year's awards...

and writing articles...

and daily updates...

and for stunts at all.



Sometimes I start thinking...

I was at the university when I started stuntsracing - now I`m not.

I had a girlfriend when I started stuntsracing - now I don`t.

People laughed on me for 1000 reasons when I started stuntsracing - now they laugh for 1001  



buuuuuuut on the contrary:



I was sometimes bored when I started stuntsracing - now I`m never.

I had some friends when I started stuntsracing - now I have much more.  



Stunts r00lz.  

you all rule.

thank you.



Zak

[Anonymous]

You should stop smoking everything...    











good night  

[Mingva]

Yes, our Stunts community is great! Every day I'm talking at least with 4 pipsqueaks   And I created this beautiful team site www.0rion.tk which is the most successfull my internet project. It has 5-10 visitors every day  

[alanrotoi]

And I'm one of them!!!  



Always advertising your site Mingva! Well done!!

And I'm very happy with MeganiuM site too! drive.to/meganium

Now you can download my 50 tracks I've done since 1993!!!!!! wwooooooooww. And this month is very special to me because I'll count 9 years with stunts!!

Cheers!!:P       There is a party and everybody is invited!!!



I have 1,55 visitors/day!! 81 visitors in total since it's online! Edited by: alanrotoi   at: 10/2/02 6:35:02 pm