Stunts Online

[dreadnaut]

Is Adderall allowed? 

There is a long history of beer, beans and spicy food at ZakStunts, clearly performance-enhancing substances!

[Byproduct]

2. DELETED previous results of the default competition without any warning.

Results of one track (default.tr2) were erased only. A player discovered and reported a large shortcut, and we blocked it and wiped the scores because the track changed.

We generally don't mind if people find small skips or shortcuts (although we try to avoid these in map design), but if someone manages to bypass large portions of the track without penalty time, then we may edit the track. It's most likely to happen to the original tracks that are yet unedited (joes, cherris, helens), but could happen to any track.

I'm not going to spam all feature updates here, but check the feature updates section of the page from time to time - for example, curved and sloped tunnel sections were added recently and you can now play with mobile devices too (on-screen keyboard).

I also encourage the track makers among you to take a look at the new track editor. The best and/or most creative maps will be added to the "community" map rotation for everyone to play. Yesterday there was a total of 1876 time trial attempts.

[dukenukem]

Haha yes, this is true. As the admin I indeed have the power to grant myself a top time directly in the scores database. A critical vulnerability indeed!

Not a vulnerability, but a design issue, since it is not possible to see the best replay. So you can just enter whatever score for yourself and others cannot validate.

[Max Perstappen]

Not a vulnerability, but a design issue, since it is not possible to see the best replay. So you can just enter whatever score for yourself and others cannot validate.

Funny how almost every comment revolves around cheating here, as if it was a huge issue in a game with no prize-money, played by some 100 middle-aged guys for fun.

I wonder what anyone would gain from putting themselves on the top of every high score with times no-one can ever beat? Is this something that you would do, or has this happened in some Stunts community? Or why are you so concerned about it?

To me this seems the fairest version to play no-RH races so far.

[dukenukem]

I wonder what anyone would gain from putting themselves on the top of every high score with times no-one can ever beat?

Ask Marco about it.

Or why are you so concerned about it?

To me this seems the fairest version to play no-RH races so far.

Exactly because of this. In cyber security this is called "security through obscurity" and "a false sense of security".
The point is, this NoRH "solution" is not any better than someone saying "believe me, I'm honest, I did no RH".

[Byproduct]

Ask Marco about it.

So you envy Marco's current top position in the Stunts Online championship. Here's how to get there:
[X] You tried asking Claude to send modified replays for you - that didn't work
[X] You tried crying at the forums - that also didn't work

Next,
[✓] Try practicing and getting good at the game. That might actually work!

The most efficient path is to not waste time on points 1 and 2, but go directly to point 3.

[dukenukem]

Me? I don't want to participate in online competitive games anymore where cheating is possible, I've had enough of playing against cheaters in CSGO.

I don't envy Marco, it's not what I said, don't put words into my mouth.

So is it possible to send modified replays then? Then obviously replay handling is possible too. Many people are in delusion then when saying things like "high level of verification" and "fairest version to play no-RH races". It's not any better than just upload the replay to ZakStunts and believe it's legit. In ZakStunts at least you can download yours and the replays of others to validate them yourself.

[Max Perstappen]

Ask Marco about it.

Ask Marco about what? Is your point that the admins put Marco on the top position of every track? Or maybe that Marco has been upset that he can't beat some top times?

Marco seems like a very good driver based on his record on Zak and his videos on youtube. Yet his times are being beaten occasionally by other drivers. He just seems obsessed with beating them again as soon as possible.

Exactly because of this. In cyber security this is called "security through obscurity" and "a false sense of security".
The point is, this NoRH "solution" is not any better than someone saying "believe me, I'm honest, I did no RH".

So what is your solution to this problem then? Just driving TAS-runs like people have done for 30 years, and play CSGO with aimbots, no clip and transparent walls?

Also, maybe Marco is so good because he actually played the game instead of editing replays for three decades like most Stunts players did. Who knows. But his times don't seem impossible as I said. I've been driving casually against myself on Dosbox (maybe for 10-15 hours in a year) and even I can get pretty close to his times in some tracks with automatic transmission.

[dukenukem]

Basically you (Max Perstappen) asked why would someone want to be the first on leaderboards. Then don't ask me, ask someone who is there (Marco).

There can be competitive games where it is impossible to cheat. For example strategy games. The server needs to send only that data to the client what they are allowed to see, and the server must validate every event done by the clients if they are possible or invalid. For example in chess, you cannot move the rook diagonally, if you do that, then you obviously cheated.

What is my point then? I just don't want people to think that playing with RH is impossible just because it runs in a browser.

(You can cheat in chess by showing the state to AI and have it suggest you a move. But there are strategy games where AI is not yet better than humans, for example StarCraft).

[dukenukem]

Oh, I forgot to answer to your main question: what is my solution to the problem?
I think I have already expressed it indirectly. If it is possible to cheat in an online competitive game, then I don't play with it.
I play single player games or co-op with friends. Or competitve online games only where cheating is technically impossible.

[Max Perstappen]

So is it possible to send modified replays then? Then obviously replay handling is possible too. Many people are in delusion then when saying things like "high level of verification" and "fairest version to play no-RH races". It's not any better than just upload the replay to ZakStunts and believe it's legit. In ZakStunts at least you can download yours and the replays of others to validate them yourself.

Sorry for a double reply, but I didn't see you had posted.

So how would you validate these replays for NoRH if you were able to download them? It sounds like before you were telling that it's impossible to tell whether it was used or not. How would this download-upload feature contribute negatively to cheating?

To me it feels that downloading and uploading replays is just one more way to manipulate them. You can watch the best times from each player online and see them yourself, and watch them against your drive on the track. The winner's replay is not shown (I believe to force people to figure out the newly discovered tactics themselves, which seems fair), but keep in mind that almost all the the second place times were former winners.

[Max Perstappen]

I play single player games or co-op with friends. Or competitve online games only where cheating is technically impossible.

Cool. The only remaining question is then, why do you reply to threads about games you have no intention play?

Reminds me of the AI decomp threads on Reddit where people come to tell they don't play AI decomps. It's like walking up to a strawberry vendor to tell you are not going to buy any because you don't eat strawberries.

[dukenukem]

So is it possible to send modified replays then? Then obviously replay handling is possible too. Many people are in delusion then when saying things like "high level of verification" and "fairest version to play no-RH races". It's not any better than just upload the replay to ZakStunts and believe it's legit. In ZakStunts at least you can download yours and the replays of others to validate them yourself.

Sorry for a double reply, but I didn't see you had posted.

So how would you validate these replays for NoRH if you were able to download them? It sounds like before you were telling that it's impossible to tell whether it was used or not. How would this download-upload feature contribute negatively to cheating?

To me it feels that downloading and uploading replays is just one more way to manipulate them. You can watch the best times from each player online and see them yourself, and watch them against your drive on the track. The winner's replay is not shown (I believe to force people to figure out the newly discovered tactics themselves, which seems fair), but keep in mind that almost all the the second place times were former winners. So the 2nd place driver used to be the first before.

You cannot validate NoRH. But if you can download the best time's replay, then at least you can see that it's not just a fake row in a data table. If no-one can beat that score, you will never be sure it's even a valid replay.

[dukenukem]

I play single player games or co-op with friends. Or competitve online games only where cheating is technically impossible.

Cool. The only remaining question is then, why do you reply to threads about games you have no intention play?

Reminds me of the AI decomp threads on Reddit where people come to tell they don't play AI decomps. It's like walking up to a strawberry vendor to tell you are not going to buy any because you don't eat strawberries.

I just wanted to inform the technically less capable, that replay handling is still possible, even if they play from a browser. I've seen some people were in this misunderstanding.

[Max Perstappen]

You cannot validate NoRH. But if you can download the best time's replay, then at least you can see that it's not just a fake row in a data table. If no-one can beat that score, you will never be sure it's even a valid replay.

I believe they make it public in case half of the community has been grinding the same track for months and not got even close, and even crowd source investigating the input sequences and stuff. It's not like it was classified for 70 years.

As was said, it's a fun game for middle aged people with no prize money. I wouldn't get too paranoid about someone just typing in times. It would be extremely stupid from the devs to ruin the game by doing that.

I just wanted to inform the technically less capable, that replay handling is still possible, even if they play from a browser. I've seen some people were in this misunderstanding.

As if no one knew that cheating is always possible. People hack satellites and banks. I don't think the devs ever said it's impossible, but that the option to do so has been removed from this version of the game, which is a huge leap compared to racing with the original executable and simply agreeing that we're not using this feature everyone has in their game.