Division Status at end of the year

[zaqrack]

You can read in the rules:

at the end of the season only those are counted as pro who raced at least 4 months in the pro league. Thats compared to the 13 races this year is about  being in the pro league at least 30% of the races.

Since there are this year lots of new talents it'd might be a good idea to change this 4 race at pro to 30% at pro.

Please vote, and I'd like to see some explanations too.

Vote as always lasts for 1 month.

[zaqrack]

The list of the PRO finalists according to the current 4 race at pro rule is available below the Relegations/Promotions table.

[Mingva]

Just stay as is: 4 or more races in Pro division - you are considering as professional pipsqueak Hey, I just noticed Orion can win Amateur trophy :roll:

[alanrotoi]

I didn't understand very well. You say those who will be in pro were who have 4 last pro races and now are who have 30 % of the total of their races. Is this correct?

[alanrotoi]

Understood  :lol:

[Krys TOFF]

I don't like both of these ideas. So I didn't vote.

In both of your proposal, you could have more than 10 drivers in pros, no ?
Or maybe not if you count not active races as amateur time, but it would be unfair for those who came during the year or those like CTG who can't race during summer.
That's a problem.

Why don't you do it like last year : 10 best drivers in overall scoreboard for this season will start next season as pros.
Mmmm, no.
Not fair too.
Problem would be for pipsqueaks coming during the year and in pro in december but more than 10th in overall scoreboard due to lack of races.
These deserve a place in pros but how to manage it...?

Maybe the best way is to keep the system like every month : 8 best pros in december's race stay pros, 2 pros are relegated and best 2 amateurs are promoted... :roll:

[Mingva]

:lol: I think you just returned from "Dutch Alcoholics" party :lol:

Watch this: http://stunts.mine.nu/index.php?page=relegation&menu=results
Do you think, someone from Pro's list should be consider as amateur?

Now I think that amateur status must have only those drivers who were less than 1/3 of their races in Pro. It means: spent 2/3 of races in Pro - you're a season's Pro driver, and 2/3 of races in Amateur - you're a season's Amateur driver. So, if Zak would change 30% to 60(or 70)%, I'd vote for 2nd option.

[al il professore]

this must have been decided long before... i know we were unsure about the real number of pipsqueaks but that would have been more unfair to change the rules in the middle of the year than to create the rules in the beginning of the year.

hey! so its unfair!

its like changing the rules in the middle of the year!

its like biasing the competition!

lets explain everything.

so we need to think who is advantaged and who isnt now... we cant be chosing like idiots by mistake the rules that ll be making bonzai joe advantaged before alain and akoss poo. ok?

its clear to me that you choose the "magic" number of four races in pro for the argammon case, because if he goes to amateur in the end of the year, then i got one victory more in pro, that one of z24.

or does z24 count as a second place even if argammon goes to amateur?

my opinion for the rules is that I would say: i will ask for the "magic" number of sixty percent of the races as a pro this year to be considered as a pro in the final rankings. For taking part to a competition seriously means to me taking part to at least 60 % of the races of it.

dont take this post as a flaming one, its just discussing.

[satanziege]

I for my part don't mind I'll try to meet the rules as they are now, but is one thing which Alain mentiones, that does confuse me too: Which month do count as "Pro month" which one as "Amateur month"? The month if upgraded to pro (means getting first or second amateur) will it count as pro month? and month i'm downgraded to amateur - will it be already amateur month or still pro month?

thanks so long, satanziege

[zaqrack]

pro month = a month in which you appeared pro on the scoreboards.

this means the months of your promotion isnt a pro month, but the month of your relegation is a pro month.

[al il professore]

my question was:

does my second place in z24 count as a second place even if argammon goes to amateur in the final rankings?

[Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister]

In my opinion all of the drivers who was a pro ever this year should have a pro result.
But: somebody, who started a month in amateur, can't have a pro result in that month!!!! (Alain zct 24, Alan Rotoi zct 26 for example) Because this is disgusting. Zak said these would count as a pro result. But then show me the meaning of pro and amateur league? Relegation without amateur ranking? What's that? Everything's against me!
And 2 worst don't count at overall ranking (NASCAR)? Who said that? Everything's against me!
My average ranking is 2.75 this year, and my pro 3rd place is in danger by a pipsqueak who dropped twice to amateur? There's no justice!
The answer to Zak's question: all the same, I don't care, that is not important.

[Argammon]

Imagine I would win the corvette track this month as an amateur? Would it only be an amateur win or also a pro win if I am pro at the end of the year?

Sorry but the rules are kinda confusing though I have to admit I didn't really read 'em

[satanziege]

i did understand the rules so, that all pro/amateur labels are preliminary until the end of the season. Whoever has fulfilled the "four races as pro" rule will IMO then count as a pro for the season concluded, whoever is a amateur then will count as amateur in all results. And if i understood it right you will not have an amateur ranking if you have a pro ranking. So whoever is in pro 4 times by now will unevitably become a pro pipsqueak at the end of the season.

[zaqrack]

i did understand the rules so, that all pro/amateur labels are preliminary until the end of the season. Whoever has fulfilled the "four races as pro" rule will IMO then count as a pro for the season concluded, whoever is a amateur then will count as amateur in all results. And if i understood it right you will not have an amateur ranking if you have a pro ranking. So whoever is in pro 4 times by now will unevitably become a pro pipsqueak at the end of the season.

and you are the one who got it right
I had in mind while creating the dual league, that relegation to the amateur can't be a disadvantage for the pros in the yearly competition.
But it's a shame. Big shame