Useless messages - place for maniacs!

[BonzaiJoe]

BJ you have to read about history. If you only see the holocaust from Jewish history you are wrong. Today David is Goliath.

Jewish terrorism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_violence

These are wikipedia articles, a 30 secs search.

Oh and this is from a month ago. Israel striked and killed 300 syrian (on syrian territory) meanwhile they are in civil war. A coward attack against them.

http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_05_05/Israeli-strike-killed-300-Syrian-soldiers-news-portal/

Okay, you have proven that Jewish religious terrorism does exists or has existed, and that there have been maybe 10 incidents since 1948. I don't think this is of any significance. Even Buddhist terrorism exists (see south east Asia). But Islam has a clear world record when it comes to inspiring people to commit violence. This is not because of anything ethnic, or because Islam is necessarily like this. It's because the Quran is full of evil, just like the Bible and the Torah, and because the cultures in which Islam thrives at the moment are for some reason poorer, less developed, and further out of the grasp of relativism and rationality, which leads to all the crap in the religious books turning into actual violence easier.

The case of Israel is special because their violence stems from nationalism, but the nation is founded on religion. Still, the difference is that it's not the people in Israel that are radicalized - it's the state that's radicalized, and in a political way, not a religious way. I blame the people for voting on the shit parties they vote for, but I don't think those same people would kill for their religion, censor criticism of their religion, ostracize family members for blasphemy, or sabotage scientific research for religious reasons.

[alanrotoi]

Then the NATO, who puts its nose everywhere and now is giving weapons to the rebels in Syria, are the worst terrorist of the world. Oh wait, they go for democracy! Come on!

The case of Israel is different you say... sitting on 200 hundred nuclear weapons, and attacking A LOT of times since this state born to their neighbours. Did you read the articles I showed? Seems not. You have a partial view about it and you don't want to see what's happening.

And you are trying to minimize the fact that Israel is terrorist because they only "there have been maybe 10 incidents since 1948"? This is serious?

[Usrin]

Israel fans vs the rest of the world... LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!

And CTG is on the same side with Rotoi. Am I dreaming? HIHETETLEN!

[Duplode]

The case of Israel is different you say... sitting on 200 hundred nuclear weapons, and attacking A LOT of times since this state born to their neighbours. Did you read the articles I showed? Seems not. You have a partial view about it and you don't want to see what's happening.

I don't think BJ is justifying the actions of the Israeli state, but merely pointing out that Zionism is not primarily driven by religion - Israel is no theocracy, after all. While that does not make Israeli aggression any more acceptable, there is a big difference from that to uncompromising interpretations of Islam, which add an outright political - yet transnational - dimension to religion.

[alanrotoi]

I didn't say he's justifying, I said he is minimizing the facts with this: "there have been maybe 10 incidents since 1948. I don't think this is of any significance."

[BonzaiJoe]

Yes, judging by the article links you put here, Jewish terrorism is very rare and insignificant.

I'm not talking about the violent actions of the Israeli regime. Those are terrible, similar to violence committed by the regimes of Sudan, North Korea, USA etc. That's the whole point. I'm trying to tell you that religions and states are not the same thing.

If you think I'm justifying Israel, you're seeing ghosts. Go start a fight in a bar instead.

[alanrotoi]

If you think I'm justifying Israel, you're seeing ghosts. Go start a fight in a bar instead.

Ok, for 3rd time: I know you are not justifying it. I know! I say you are minimizing the fact they are violent too when you say: "there have been maybe 10 incidents since 1948. I don't think this is of any significance."
Also they killed 300 syrian soldiers last month in a missile attack against this country that is in civil war. That's fair and brave huh! I can name a lot of attacks like this.


Online Dictionary:

Justify: to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable.

Minimize: to reduce or keep to a minimum.

[BonzaiJoe]

Okay, once again:

When I say there have been about 10 incidents since 1948 and it's of no significance, I'm talking about Jewish terrorism, that is, violence targeting civilians, intended for maximal destruction and based directly on Jewish religious ideals.  Tactical actions of the Israeli military, however disastrous, are not counted in this.

The state of Israel is one of the most violent states in the world, but it's not because the prime minister reads the Torah every evening and gets inspired to kill people in the morning.

The reason why it's important to remember the difference: these kinds of violence, while resulting in the same kinds of misery, occur for dramatically different reasons, and if we want to stop them, we need to work on it in two different ways.

[alanrotoi]

Ok we are agree then. But, violence is violence. It doesn't matter if you have an aggressive interpretation of the Coran or if you read how to invade in People magazine.

[BonzaiJoe]

Ok we are agree then. But, violence is violence. It doesn't matter if you have an aggressive interpretation of the Coran or if you read how to invade in People magazine.

That's right. Violence is violence. And when USA and others start talking about stopping dangerous regimes, they should stop Israel first, because they are much more dangerous than Iran.

Moreover, the change I want to make to the world, which is to introduce critical thinking, rationality and consciousness about their own fallibility in everyone, would eliminate islamic terrorism, but it would not eliminate Israel style state terrorism.

[alanrotoi]

And how that change would be? What the ex terrorist would think/believe now?

[BonzaiJoe]

Well, I just wish no one was so sure their ideology is correct that they're prepared to kill to defend it. Or to suppress others. If everyone was able to think critically, there would be no religion and no terrorism. However, there would still be lots of violence because people are poor and hopeless. Poverty is the most important thing to eliminate. The next thing is to bring education to the world.

[alanrotoi]

Did you read "Utopia" by Thomas More (or Tomás Moro in Spanish)?

[BonzaiJoe]

Actually no. I have it on my bookshelf though. Should I read it?

[Chulk]

Actually no. I have it on my bookshelf though. Should I read it?

Definitely yes! As a matter of fact, as soon as I finish reading "The grand design" I'll read it again