Politics around the world

[CTG]

Ultimate predictions?

Fidesz 40%, left-wing 29%, Jobbik 21%, LMP 6%, rest 4%.

As for me:

44% - Fidesz
25% - left-wing alliance
21% - Jobbik
5.1% - LMP (just like their ancestor, the "good" old SZDSZ... btw I hope to see 4.99% for them)
4.9% - the rest

[CTG]

Btw finally I decided to vote.

[alanrotoi]

No matter who you'll vote, always always better to try your democratic right.

[CTG]

No matter who you'll vote, always always better to try your democratic right.

Well... my choice won't win... not even in my district.

[CTG]

As for me:

44% - Fidesz
25% - left-wing alliance
21% - Jobbik
5.1% - LMP (just like their ancestor, the "good" old SZDSZ... btw I hope to see 4.99% for them)
4.9% - the rest

It seems my tips were way too good... Fidesz will have the crucial 2/3 of the seats (with ~45% of the votes, what a stupid system...), while the neo-SZDSZ is also in with ~5.2%. The detailed results... well... it's better not to analyse. The whole procedure reminds me on a Z category reality show, where the winner - after a tight battle - has exactly as much votes as it's necessary (the only difference is that the goal was the 2/3 of the mandates, not a simple victory).

Counting 98.97% of the votes:

44.54% - Fidesz-KDNP (133 seats from 199, 66.8%, no comment...)
25.99% - left-wing alliance (38 seats, 19.1%)
20.54% - Jobbik (23 seats, 11.6%)
5.26% - LMP (5 seats, 2.5%, status quo, "a kecske is jóllakott, a káposzta is megmaradt")
all the other parties under 1%

In my district, the left-wing applicant won (the local Fidesz applicant is way too corrupt, even his own party is fed up with him).

I'm almost sure that the whole elections were cheated, but since there's no credible major political power on the map, so it's irrelevant. As for me, the only party which seems to be more or less trustful is Jobbik, probably just because they had not governed the country yet - I'm afraid they would be as shitty as the other two... However, I would give them the chance for 4 years to prove the opposite.

[BonzaiJoe]

As for me:

44% - Fidesz
25% - left-wing alliance
21% - Jobbik
5.1% - LMP (just like their ancestor, the "good" old SZDSZ... btw I hope to see 4.99% for them)
4.9% - the rest

It seems my tips were way too good... Fidesz will have the crucial 2/3 of the seats (with ~45% of the votes, what a stupid system...), while the neo-SZDSZ is also in with ~5.2%. The detailed results... well... it's better not to analyse. The whole procedure reminds me on a Z category reality show, where the winner - after a tight battle - has exactly as much votes as it's necessary (the only difference is that the goal was the 2/3 of the mandates, not a simple victory).

Counting 98.97% of the votes:

44.54% - Fidesz-KDNP (133 seats from 199, 66.8%, no comment...)
25.99% - left-wing alliance (38 seats, 19.1%)
20.54% - Jobbik (23 seats, 11.6%)
5.26% - LMP (5 seats, 2.5%, status quo, "a kecske is jóllakott, a káposzta is megmaradt")
all the other parties under 1%

In my district, the left-wing applicant won (the local Fidesz applicant is way too corrupt, even his own party is fed up with him).

I'm almost sure that the whole elections were cheated, but since there's no credible major political power on the map, so it's irrelevant. As for me, the only party which seems to be more or less trustful is Jobbik, probably just because they had not governed the country yet - I'm afraid they would be as shitty as the other two... However, I would give them the chance for 4 years to prove the opposite.

So it doesn't matter exactly what political ideas they will implement with all their purity and credibility?

[BonzaiJoe]

By the way I agree with your "no comment". You no longer live in a democracy.

[CTG]

So it doesn't matter exactly what political ideas they will implement with all their purity and credibility?

I have no problem with their ideas. The party itself is not as radical as it seems to be - whatever the Western media says, they are not nazis, only the loud minority of their supporters.

Our country is in a deep moral (and economical) crisis. A strict government  - let's say Jobbik, but with a strong and constructive left-wing opposition - could help a lot in this situation. Unfortunately most of the voters are still brainless sheeps, forgetting about the poor performance of Fidesz between 2010 and 2013 (thinking only on the "generous" last year, which was the part of the campaign). We will have two more elections in this year (European Parliament, local authorities), so the next economical restrictions are coming only in 2015...

[BonzaiJoe]

Well, of course there could be one really great thing about Jobbík in goverment:

Either they would accept the EU, which would quickly expose them as being just another opportunist party who don't really believe what they say they believe, or they would actually pull Hungary away from the EU, which would skid up the country's economy and make the people realize how much they depend on other countries and how much stronger international communities are than lonely nations. And this would also hurt their vote counts.

But of course they will never be in government, so they can keep singing about whatever they want.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Jobbik a nationalist party that wants to create separate rights for people based on ethnicity?

[BonzaiJoe]

By the way, what do you mean by "moral crisis"? What is Hungary's moral crisis?

[CTG]

By the way, what do you mean by "moral crisis"? What is Hungary's moral crisis?

Answer: tomorrow, I don't have enough time now to summarize. However, I'm afraid my English vocabulary is simply too poor to explain you the local "specialities", missing from Zak's explanations.

Btw I don't want to hurt Mr. McKracken, but he doesn't really see what happens in the Hungarian reality: in the poor districts of Budapest / coutryside, or simply in the home of less educated people (=the majority of Hungarians). Being a (well-paid) white collar man in the capital... well... it's a lucky and way too sterile case. For example you need to see the gypsy problem with your own eyes - not only from the news. Unfortunately they are the part of my everydays, since I'm working in one of the most dangerous districts of Budapest (and I use public transport).

[zaqrack]

you are partially wrong.

First of all yes, I do not have much coverage on what has happened in the past years, as the past 3 years I have spent mostly abroad and am not exposed to Hungarian problems on a daily level.

But then also:
- I do mountain biking. That involves going through remote parts of remote, in some cases very remote villages. Sure, I rarely get to the eastern part of Hungary, but I would not call Nógrád county overdeveloped and the problems you describe are present there as well. Never had any conflicts or problems.
- Even though we live in the capital and on the Buda side, I do live in a "panel" district and next door to a youth detainment centre. Don't think I am enclosed by walls from the outside world.
- Part of my family lives and several of my friends in the heart of district VIII (some of them actually LIKE to live there, believe it or not). I regularly visit. By public transport, by bike. I know what is the situation and yes, one has to be careful. But it is a problem of poor/under-educated people altogether and not a problem of specific minorities.

I am not saying I am involved with such things on a daily basis, but it is incorrect to state I am not aware and do not see the issues present in the countryside / poor districts.

[Usrin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Jobbik a nationalist party that wants to create separate rights for people based on ethnicity?

Sorry, you're wrong. Jobbik is a nationalist party, but they never wanted to create different rights based on ethnicity. They tend to see Gypsies and Jewish as reasons of problems in Hungary, however the solutions they offer are different than you think. What do their "anti-gypsy" plans mean? More policemen in rural areas, stricter penalties for minor crimes, benefits for non-working people in kind (instead of giving money which they often spend on alcohol, etc.), forcing parents to send kids to school, forcing people to keep their environment tidy, etc. These rules would apply to everybody, not regarding ethnicity! The Western media likes to exaggerate the "nazi danger" in Hungary... That's mainly because our politicians' habit of telling lies about their opponents to foreign journalists, not caring if they destroy the reputation of the whole country. (Fidesz in opposition did the same with the left-wing.)

I've quite strong left-wing (socialist, not liberal) political views, so I would never vote for Jobbik. But I can understand people who do. Currently Jobbik is the only party who stand for any kind of ideas, and have plans about how to govern the country. Fidesz and the left-wing politicians are not more than the spokesmen of oligarch groups. Believe it or not, the two major parties had no published political programs before the elections... They want to rule simply because they want to give all business opportunities and all possible money to their wealthy friends in the background. I think that's the moral crisis what CTG talks about.

I've already written about the "Gypsy problem" in this forum. That's an existing problem in Hungary, and Jobbik is the only party not denying it. Maybe Zak feels safe in the "bad" districts and villages as a traveler, but it is very-very different for people living there. They can be attacked anytime (even in their homes), they cannot grow anything in their gardens (because Gypsy gangs pick everything), their children are terrorised in school, etc. And yes, their are specific types of crime which are related to Gypsies due to their very different cultural traditions. They were nomad people: in their world there was no private property, they took whatever they needed, and they reacted to any offence with calling the family members for a massive attack. In Europe, in the 21th century this is called crime, and cannot be tolerated.

[zaqrack]

Slightly related news:

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/02/and-the-worlds-unhappiest-country-is-officially.html

[Usrin]

Btw, real Nazis are in Ukraine... but they are shown as hyper-cool freedom fighters in the Western press.