The announcement

[Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister]

Time, work... well, Krys Toff attented the Danish international meeting with having a job, a wife and three children. Still, we could see him and we could party with him. Why? Because he really wanted to come. That's the real case, in my opinion.

That's just stupid. Do you really think I could travel to Europe just to meet you guys there, with 2 jobs, university, girlfriend and flat to care of? No, I couldn't even if I wanted it most than anything else.

There are and were many pipsqueaks in South America as well. I did not want to make you feel that in my opinion, you have to come to Europe to meet us to be an appreciatedly enthusiastic Stunts driver, but you took my words this way I guess. But within a continent, and especially if it's Europe, it's not such a big deal to organize and/or attend a meeting, the yearly meetings between 2004-06 prove that. And in that case, my words in my previous post are still really true.

[Duplode]

Re: Akoss/Chulk, I feel that sort of argument leads neither way: it's just that people are able to (or, alternatively, willing to) get involved up to a certain point of real-life busyness, and past that point they aren't any more. Even Krys eventually became unable to send replays regularly. In a way, my thoughts about that are not far from Zak's "realist" observations above... except when it comes to his, so to say, "fears" of a re-enactment of 2002-2005 (or any other era, really) - even if the community blossomed again in a similar way we would never perceive it as the same thing, as we have changed a lot too  

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P.S.: Mark has started another thread which can be useful to gather practical suggestions that may otherwise get lost amidst our "philosophical" reflections here.

[alanrotoi]

Well, I'm not mad with CTG. Sure, he did some wrong things like acuse me to create ghost, calling ghost to Ayrton, Chulk and Gutix. I left the community those times so I "couldn't hear" about that so it didn't hurt me. But I think These guys felt insulted by him.

I'm not agree about saying "I'm a bad person, I did this and this so I punish myself and I leave". That's a kid way or maybe coward. I think he should apologyse with Ayrton, Chulk, Gutix and all the people he insulted about their existance. Now maybe it is too late to that.

As I said I'm not mad with him, I would like to see him here. The thing he did, more than a real apologyse you/we wont receive but for me it's enough.

About the community, you can't maintain a building with non-existant columns. That's not the way and Akoss, don't change the subject about it because he created ghost since the golden age where we were a lot of people here. So it wasn't a way to save the community, it was a wrong thing.

Gutix and me are trying to rise up the community again setting up the 4dsL 2011 with a large advertising campaign in abandonware forums and we prepared a "Liga de Stunts" (Stunts League) facebook page. Soon I will invite all of you.

I hope he considerate to come back and face us and say what he have to say. We are not a tribunal, we are regular guys just like him. Maybe I'm a bit soft with it, but in the other hand it's impossible to do more.

PS: Sorry for my bad english

[zaqrack]

Don't take competition level for community. It doesn't matter if the competition is strong or not, what matter is that most of us keep in touch (via whatever you choose)and know pretty good what's going on in others lives. And I somehow feel that once a member here, always a member here.

Very well said, Chulk. Community and competition are -although tightly related- completely different

[zaqrack]

But within a continent, and especially if it's Europe, it's not such a big deal to organize and/or attend a meeting, the yearly meetings between 2004-06 prove that. And in that case, my words in my previous post are still really true.

It is a very huge deal to organize a meeting.

[Chulk]

Akoss: Sorry if it sounded as I took it personally, that was not the idea and I apologize if it seemed so. I admit saying your idea was stupid does sound a bit too aggressive but, trust me, it was not my intention. That being said, I move on to...
The other topic!
(Yes, I know I posted there earlier, don't mention it )

[JTK]

And I somehow feel that once a member here, always a member here.

So do I!

[Krys TOFF]

Well, well, well...

First, thanks Mark for the PM, it made me come here sooner that I would have probably done by myself according to the spare free time I have nowadays.

Second, I don't see anything surprising here. Regular USC-only pipsqueaks were CTG ghosts. Nothing new for me here. That's CTG. Since the "scandal" of the track contest back in... 2003 ? (not sure) and the famous (for old-timers like me) Unskilled Stunts false draft (all "drafters" were CTG's ghosts) and so on, for sure old pipsqueaks should not be much surprised.

Third, "Silver Spirit" had its goal in its name : being 2nd, get the silver medal. Goal of this team was just to make CTG's result seem better with a "real" opposition. CTG probably found the level of his competition too low without some serious replays so he managed to create an opposition to both valorize himself and make the other strong players come racing USC.

Now, CTG made his coming out, fine, what else ?

Will it bring a real new generation of active chatters/players ? Nope. It will just make the forum less active.

Was he the only one playing with ghosts ? Not so sure...

Of course, there is a difference between forum-only ghosts like Stunts Oracle (Alan "Portador de Luz" Rotoi) or Stunts Oracle Priests (me) and racing ghosts, but goal of these were the same : fill the void, void created by a lack of pipsqueaks and chatters.

Is CTG crazy ? Maybe. Probably suffering mutli-personnality.
Is Peter Varga crazy ? I don't know but I don't think so.

Like Alain "il professore" Péré, CTG has always been playing a role as a pipsqueak.
Alain played the mocking bird, always finding funny to make the others go crazy against him.

Now the mask is off for CTG. He will probably come back in a few months/years with a new nick and a new attitude. I hope so, because Stunts need active pipsqueaks, like CTG was. Like I used to be before I got fed up with it and got too busy to even race with listfiller replays.

I can understand the frustration of Mark and some others, of course. I don't want to find any excuse to CTG.
Maybe Akoss, Zak and I are guilty in some way too, as we never forced CTG to reveal all his ghosts (I knew about some of them but not for all of them) and stop wasting his time like that...

[BonzaiJoe]

Hello everyone

I generally agree with Krys. I'm not the least surprised to hear that CTG, Dottore etc. are ghosts, and I feel almost nothing. This doesn't change anything for me about the Stunts community - a declining community with less and less activity, but nevertheless a community with such a strong fundament of real human relations that I don't fear at all that it could die.
I also generally consider CTG's contribution to the Stunts community very positive. The lying and the ghost deceptions are childish and silly, but it's not such a big thing compared to how much he has done to keep the community alive and active.

When you say CTG is a liar and you cannot trust him, you are right! I learned this about him many years ago, and just accepted that as part of who he is. I knew with everything I said to him: "I cannot trust this guy." But I could still have a fine relationship with him.

Also...
The average age of the Stunts community has been rising year by year. It is now comprised of grown-up people who have jobs and in many cases also children. We don't have a lot of time, and when we do, we don't always want to spend it playing a computer game we've already been playing for 15 years, even if it's a really good computer game. How about some live racing events instead? That would take a bit less time.

Love.

Jacob

[zaqrack]

yes, lets not forget CTG managed to generate quite a buzz here on the forum even when without an active registration This is definitely a great asset

Live racing sounds cool, but I fear I may be a bit separated from the rest of you due to my new time zone... 

[Gutix]

I also generally consider CTG's contribution to the Stunts community very positive. The lying and the ghost deceptions are childish and silly, but it's not such a big thing compared to how much he has done to keep the community alive and active.

Agree

When you say CTG is a liar and you cannot trust him, you are right! I learned this about him many years ago, and just accepted that as part of who he is. I knew with everything I said to him: "I cannot trust this guy." But I could still have a fine relationship with him.

Agree

[Mark L. Rivers]

Sorry, I simply can't agree with you.

All that Peter Varga did in this forum, has been made for a unique goal: researching to shine over all others self-incensing himself. Maybe a certain number of us is here for the same reason. But to reach his objective, Peter Varga abused the trust of the community members, continuing to cover the others with insults, derision, deceptions, respectless. For years.
Sorry, but I could never have a good or fine relationship with a such person.

Sorry, but considering acceptable this sort of "contribute" to keep alive the little Stunts world is a vision light-years far from mine. If this vision is shared from the core of the actual community, well, I have to think a lot about. In a community, members have to partake much more than a passion for something. Someone can be more active and chattered than other one. But, as I said before, I consider estimate, respect and trust as pillars of a whatever community. We are not professional drivers paid to race in a championship. We are here because we are linked from something deeper. Something positive.

But if many members of this little world are ready to set aside their appreciation for respect and trust welcoming members as Peter Varga in order to keep alive the community finding is "contribute" very positive, well, I have to think a lot about.
For me, generating increased talking in the Forum with spam full of derisions and insult, or managing cheating races even with high number of drivers, is a poison for this world. Passion for the races and fairness is the sap. AS ZCT100 did. A race Peter Varga disregarded after the conclusion.

Anyway, the evidence is that this world was going to die with Peter Varga onboard. But maybe what we'll see from this moment will show that, without a similar person, this community can do much better. I only hope to be part of it. And this is what I have to think a lot.

[Krys TOFF]

Honestly, I never suffered insultive comments or PMs from anyone, even if I found many times that the haughty attitude of Argammon is quite insultive, but it's just my own opinion about him.

[Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister]

Sound-minded, cool attitude and comments from senior drivers like Krys and BJ. I was sure that they would react this way if they come.

Summary: the announcement hasn't shocked anybody who kept their eyes open (IMO), and has nothing to do with the future of the community. And about CTG... well, he's such kinda person, but still, a part of Stunts history, and one of us.

[BonzaiJoe]

Of course I wish CTG hadn't been like this. I guess I just accepted long ago that he is. What else was there to do?
I half agree with Mark's point that we can never be sure if a new strong pipsqueak is CTG's ghost (but partly disagree because there's always been something weird about CTG's ghosts, and for example, I never thought Renato Biker or Duplode were ghosts). And also, this problem will not affect the newbies themselves (because as you will remember, most "ghost accusations" also came from CTG. And while I find it hard to believe anyone has believed in anything he said after the Gelato Baker scandal, certainly no one will believe anything now. Right?

However, I think we should keep our eyes open and not believe the last CTG-ghost has been revealed yet. The typical CTG thing to do would be to announce some ghosts as if they were the only ones and keep some others secret.

I think he's happy right now, thinking he's a big Dr. Evil in the world, when actually he's spent his precious hours becoming Dr. Slightly Annoying in a small fantasy world.