The announcement

[Krys TOFF]

Well, well, well...

First, thanks Mark for the PM, it made me come here sooner that I would have probably done by myself according to the spare free time I have nowadays.

Second, I don't see anything surprising here. Regular USC-only pipsqueaks were CTG ghosts. Nothing new for me here. That's CTG. Since the "scandal" of the track contest back in... 2003 ? (not sure) and the famous (for old-timers like me) Unskilled Stunts false draft (all "drafters" were CTG's ghosts) and so on, for sure old pipsqueaks should not be much surprised.

Third, "Silver Spirit" had its goal in its name : being 2nd, get the silver medal. Goal of this team was just to make CTG's result seem better with a "real" opposition. CTG probably found the level of his competition too low without some serious replays so he managed to create an opposition to both valorize himself and make the other strong players come racing USC.

Now, CTG made his coming out, fine, what else ?

Will it bring a real new generation of active chatters/players ? Nope. It will just make the forum less active.

Was he the only one playing with ghosts ? Not so sure...

Of course, there is a difference between forum-only ghosts like Stunts Oracle (Alan "Portador de Luz" Rotoi) or Stunts Oracle Priests (me) and racing ghosts, but goal of these were the same : fill the void, void created by a lack of pipsqueaks and chatters.

Is CTG crazy ? Maybe. Probably suffering mutli-personnality.
Is Peter Varga crazy ? I don't know but I don't think so.

Like Alain "il professore" Péré, CTG has always been playing a role as a pipsqueak.
Alain played the mocking bird, always finding funny to make the others go crazy against him.

Now the mask is off for CTG. He will probably come back in a few months/years with a new nick and a new attitude. I hope so, because Stunts need active pipsqueaks, like CTG was. Like I used to be before I got fed up with it and got too busy to even race with listfiller replays.

I can understand the frustration of Mark and some others, of course. I don't want to find any excuse to CTG.
Maybe Akoss, Zak and I are guilty in some way too, as we never forced CTG to reveal all his ghosts (I knew about some of them but not for all of them) and stop wasting his time like that...

[BonzaiJoe]

Hello everyone

I generally agree with Krys. I'm not the least surprised to hear that Navras, Dottore etc. are ghosts, and I feel almost nothing. This doesn't change anything for me about the Stunts community - a declining community with less and less activity, but nevertheless a community with such a strong fundament of real human relations that I don't fear at all that it could die.
I also generally consider CTG's contribution to the Stunts community very positive. The lying and the ghost deceptions are childish and silly, but it's not such a big thing compared to how much he has done to keep the community alive and active.

When you say CTG is a liar and you cannot trust him, you are right! I learned this about him many years ago, and just accepted that as part of who he is. I knew with everything I said to him: "I cannot trust this guy." But I could still have a fine relationship with him.

Also...
The average age of the Stunts community has been rising year by year. It is now comprised of grown-up people who have jobs and in many cases also children. We don't have a lot of time, and when we do, we don't always want to spend it playing a computer game we've already been playing for 15 years, even if it's a really good computer game. How about some live racing events instead? That would take a bit less time.

Love.

Jacob

[zaqrack]

yes, lets not forget CTG managed to generate quite a buzz here on the forum even when without an active registration This is definitely a great asset

Live racing sounds cool, but I fear I may be a bit separated from the rest of you due to my new time zone... 

[Gutix]

I also generally consider CTG's contribution to the Stunts community very positive. The lying and the ghost deceptions are childish and silly, but it's not such a big thing compared to how much he has done to keep the community alive and active.

Agree

When you say CTG is a liar and you cannot trust him, you are right! I learned this about him many years ago, and just accepted that as part of who he is. I knew with everything I said to him: "I cannot trust this guy." But I could still have a fine relationship with him.

Agree

[Mark L. Rivers]

Sorry, I simply can't agree with you.

All that Peter Varga did in this forum, has been made for a unique goal: researching to shine over all others self-incensing himself. Maybe a certain number of us is here for the same reason. But to reach his objective, Peter Varga abused the trust of the community members, continuing to cover the others with insults, derision, deceptions, respectless. For years.
Sorry, but I could never have a good or fine relationship with a such person.

Sorry, but considering acceptable this sort of "contribute" to keep alive the little Stunts world is a vision light-years far from mine. If this vision is shared from the core of the actual community, well, I have to think a lot about. In a community, members have to partake much more than a passion for something. Someone can be more active and chattered than other one. But, as I said before, I consider estimate, respect and trust as pillars of a whatever community. We are not professional drivers paid to race in a championship. We are here because we are linked from something deeper. Something positive.

But if many members of this little world are ready to set aside their appreciation for respect and trust welcoming members as Peter Varga in order to keep alive the community finding is "contribute" very positive, well, I have to think a lot about.
For me, generating increased talking in the Forum with spam full of derisions and insult, or managing cheating races even with high number of drivers, is a poison for this world. Passion for the races and fairness is the sap. AS ZCT100 did. A race Peter Varga disregarded after the conclusion.

Anyway, the evidence is that this world was going to die with Peter Varga onboard. But maybe what we'll see from this moment will show that, without a similar person, this community can do much better. I only hope to be part of it. And this is what I have to think a lot.

[Krys TOFF]

Honestly, I never suffered insultive comments or PMs from anyone, even if I found many times that the haughty attitude of Argammon is quite insultive, but it's just my own opinion about him.

[Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister]

Sound-minded, cool attitude and comments from senior drivers like Krys and BJ. I was sure that they would react this way if they come.

Summary: the announcement hasn't shocked anybody who kept their eyes open (IMO), and has nothing to do with the future of the community. And about CTG... well, he's such kinda person, but still, a part of Stunts history, and one of us.

[BonzaiJoe]

Of course I wish CTG hadn't been like this. I guess I just accepted long ago that he is. What else was there to do?
I half agree with Mark's point that we can never be sure if a new strong pipsqueak is CTG's ghost (but partly disagree because there's always been something weird about CTG's ghosts, and for example, I never thought Renato Biker or Duplode were ghosts). And also, this problem will not affect the newbies themselves (because as you will remember, most "ghost accusations" also came from CTG. And while I find it hard to believe anyone has believed in anything he said after the Gelato Baker scandal, certainly no one will believe anything now. Right?

However, I think we should keep our eyes open and not believe the last CTG-ghost has been revealed yet. The typical CTG thing to do would be to announce some ghosts as if they were the only ones and keep some others secret.

I think he's happy right now, thinking he's a big Dr. Evil in the world, when actually he's spent his precious hours becoming Dr. Slightly Annoying in a small fantasy world.

[JTK]

To me it's funny to see, that obviously after CTG's leaving the community starts to breathe free again and become more vivid. Or do I get it wrong?

[Usrin]

I did my regular (roughly) monthly check on Stunts Forum, and had to say: "What the f***?"

But after some thinking, I started to think that this announcement is not a major breakpoint in the history of Stunts community. People are not perfect, and statistically, at least one seriously dishonest person appears in any online or offline community of this size. I'm rather happy to see a proof that such a person can't hide behind his mask forever.

Btw, I hope that CTG's results (under the name of CTG) won't be deleted from any scoreboard, and it won't be forgotten that he was a great pipsqueak. His driving skills and results have nothing to do with his personality and his ghosts.

About the future: I think that even the best things in life become less interesting after a few years, if we try to preserve them without any changes. I'm sure that this factor also contributed to the dying of the community. Becoming older, having flats, jobs, families, etc. also matter, but any of us can see that hard-working fathers at the age of 30 usually DO have their hobbies (even if they take a 2-3-year break in their busiest period). So why can't we keep on? If we can be so active on the forum due to the 'CTG scandal', we could also attend a race, a championship or even a meeting... but these events should be special compared to the earlier ones to attract our attention.

Well, I agree with Akoss that the activity will never reach the 2002-05 level. That is no more affordable for most of us, due to the lack of time, and neither newbies can remake such a world, due to the changing social habits. But the worst thing would be to let everything die slowly. I would rather see the rebuilding of the community into a less vivid, but strong one. In my present circumstances (with limited free time) racing 4 times per year, checking the forum weekly and sending 10-15 posts (not counting spam) per month would mean that the world of Stunts is still an important element in my life and my connections to this world are still strong. I hope that I can reach this level of activity soon, but it's worth doing that only if I won't be alone...

[Oscar]

Are you happy? Would you like to see the statistics of a few posts? I don't like it. Are you a fan of stunts or pride blinds you? Ahh, nor is it necessary to fill the forum posts nonsense or spam or beer. Sound familiar?
These months have not been much time in front of the computer because it's summer and I went to the beach, I've been with my family ... I imagine that much of the community has done something similar.

Sorry for my english.

[CTG]

Ahh, nor is it necessary to fill the forum posts nonsense or spam or beer.

Too bad: beer is still the most popular topic - and not only because of me. Maybe I'll tell you something new: few years ago this one was a real community, also chatting in real topics, not only ZCT46/75/93 or car hacking bullshit. Or do you think Krys Toff, Bonzai Joe or Akoss Poo talked only about Stunts? Bah...

[Duplode]

While you may have a point (at least to the extent you are replying to that sentence in Oscar's post), you are doing yourself no favours by coming to this thread and rubbing it in that the community is comatose, or that your absence did nothing towards restoring it - no matter that both things are obviously true. Frankly, I don't think you are in a position to do that. Do make a comeback if you feel the need, but please let go of the grudges; live and let live.

[CTG]

DUP: I'm talking about facts, nothing more. Zak should close this topic anyway - I can't do it anymore without the old forum account.

[Oscar]

Agree the community is sleeping, it's a fact! I have nothing against you, but all of us in the community should support and attempt stunts that works.

Beer ... ok we can speak about everything, but it would be interesting Stunts competitions or ... stunts hacking, why not? ... this it is a Stunts forum I think.

... not only ZCT46/75/93 or car hacking bullshit. ...

Stunts car hacking bullshit!? some respect.