Herr Otto Partz says you're all nothing but pipsqueaks!

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Cars and rules for 2015

Started by dreadnaut, December 20, 2014, 01:02:27 AM

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Quote from: Akoss Poo on December 29, 2014, 10:34:48 AM
It would be carried from one race to the next race, until it would be worthy for a point. If one collects 46 hours in four races, it would be carried to the fifth one. Only two hours is needed then, but only if this 48 hours is the second longest leading hour data at present (on the track, including carried times). Of course if this pipsqueak is collecting for example 10 hours, but for the 58 hours isn't worthy for a point, he would carry 58 hours to the sixth track. With this, no leading time would be in vain.

Sounds nice: it would prevent races ending with only +2 LTB, and no-one getting the +1 bonus.

Public-15-days could have a similar effect though - how do you see them working together? or are they alternatives?


Quote from: dreadnaut on December 29, 2014, 02:33:05 PM
Public-15-days could have a similar effect though - how do you see them working together? or are they alternatives?




Hi All,

apologies for the delay. I have avoided the forum for a whole month!  :o
Have read through the rules and here is my opinion. Up for discussion, would love to start the season by mid-January.

This is really up to you. I am all-in for more custom cars, but I know the coefficient system cannot handle more properly. So we will keep the current number of custom cars and prefer to rotate 2 or 3 from the current set. I will NOT include the Skoda though, and would love to see a new, formerly unused car.

2014 was the last season with PTB. I prefer not to use this bonus anymore
Keeping remaining LTB hours: I do get your point, but this would be an additional layer to code as LTB is currently not stored in the database. I think the whole idea of not giving LTB under a certain threshold period makes no sense with public replays, so I would cancel this rule altogether and let pipsqueaks earn LTB even with one hour of leading.

Schedule and frequency:
Two week races are a good idea but I doubt it would work (read: I doubt I would be able to perform updates so often).
Moreover, it conflicts with the current point system. This would mean at least 25 races per year - we should set at least the worst 7-8 not to count in the yearly score. Also, a change of such magnitude would need a major revamp of the site code (back-end and presentation: consider a 25-column seasonal scoreboard...), which I am not ready to do - not sure if dreadnaut is willing to do the task.
Given the usual dead period in the second half of December and the delayed season start I would opt for 4-week races starting mid-January running till mid-December, giving some time for all to rest by the end of 2015.
We could also consider 3-week cycles (a nice compromise) and 16 races.
In any case, if we increase track frequency we need to store replays on the server to automate updates - see the next point. In fact, judging from my lack of committment in the past couple of months this would be required as an added function to keep ZakStunts running stable .

Public replays in the first half of the month:
YES!!! YES!!! This is a long-time planned feature, only I was unable to code it well - but I understand dreadnaut has coded most of the required stuff so it could be possible. So let's give it a go. Submitted replays are stored on the server and accessible for all in the first 15(14) days of the race, then the rest appears upon track completion. 

As i mentioned earlier, I would prefer to move towards 80% guest tracks. We already have a track submission form working, we should enable it for all to be able to submit track candidates, which the manager can review and assign as a competition track with a simple click of a button.

Now: your turn. Also very interested in dreadnaut's feasibility analysis :)


Hello Zak, and welcome back!

Speaking about code:
  • yes, replay uploading is more or less done. In the version I uploaded is optional, but it takes very little to make it compulsory in a period of the race.
  • the track/race system should work for any length of time, but I have to double check I didn't hardcode any dates, e.g. "reveal track on the 2nd of the month".
  • 20+ races per year would be a bit of a pain with the current tables, and I don't think I will have time to fix it this month (deadlines at work, sorry). However, the tables will be a problem later during the season, so it's not really urgent.
  • track uploading would take a bit more; it's not difficult, but again I have limited time now that the holidays are over —it's something that could be added during the year though :)
Personally, I think public replays would be a great addition, for a third or half of the race days. Please keep a couple of quiet days at the end too!

I feel that two-weeks race would be a bit too short, with a deadline every other week. I'm ok with monthly races, even 11 if ZakStunts starts at the end of the month.

In the meanwhile, we can host live races and we have USC. I was also thinking about writing some sort of "race-in-a-box" page, to make it easy to upload a track and start a small competition, but that would be further down the road :)


Quote from: zaqrack on January 04, 2015, 03:56:02 PM
2014 was the last season with PTB. I prefer not to use this bonus anymore

Do you mean EB?



Public replays would be great with many newbie pipsqueaks but this is not the case since years. If we are only old pipsqueaks what's the meaning of this work?


Quote from: alanrotoi on January 05, 2015, 12:14:32 AM
If we are only old pipsqueaks what's the meaning of this work?

Some of the middle class pipsqueaks (or those who have no team) can improve a lot with that - independently of their experience.


Quote from: alanrotoi on January 05, 2015, 12:14:32 AM
Public replays would be great with many newbie pipsqueaks but this is not the case since years. If we are only old pipsqueaks what's the meaning of this work?

I see two advantages for (partial) public replays:

  • it would make it more difficult for a single pipsqueak to collect all the leading time hours: strong pipsqueaks would keep their best tricks hidden probably, letting others collect hours in the first half of the race.
  • the competition would be much more accessible to newbies that don't have the luck to enter a team with expert drivers; they would see possible tricks on the same track and be able to compare their own laps, leading to less frustration and more fun!
So, without new pipsqueaks we get only the first point, but the second makes it more likely for new pipsqueaks to stay :)   And we can then advertise the competition as "easy to start, learn by example!"


Still no answer, but hey it's ok. It won't be my season anyway :)

Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister

Well, I don't really think that we can count with new r@cers. It's 2015... if somebody wanted to find his old favourite game online, I think he or she already did it a long ago. So I think we should rather keep the activity of current r@cers alive somehow, or maybe call the forum-active, but driving-inactive r@cers back somehow.

The public replay thing is okay for me.

I feel sad for the Skoda, though I accept it.

In my opinion we should use less and less custom/cheat cars.

It was my first full season in 2014 and I got the Endurance Bonus for that, so I'm fine with this bonus.

I was against Leading Time Bonus for years, but I say let's give a try with the new public replay addition.

I think we don't need shorter track intervals than 1 month. The activity isn't the highest... people is complaining about lack of time... why should we organize more races?

I would like to see a chosen car for each track instead of car bonus system... but that's only an impossible dream I think.

How the new point system would work? Will we neglect the three worst races again?
Chürműű! :-)

3126.69 km


Although I have already summarized my opinion, let me say a few words for each changes.

First of all: I'm okay with any kind of rules, because I think they won't really change pipsqueaks' attitude. Addicts will send damned strong replays even in the first two weeks, even if those lap will be published.

LTB: the current system is fine, working for ages. However, giving a point after 1 hour of leading... I don't really like it. Imagine if Short Cutfinder sends 1:40.55 right after publishing the track. He's leading for a single hour, then Mark Nailwood comes with 50.50 and he keeps the first place for the rest of the month. In this example, Short Cutfinder does not deserve a bonus point just for being there at the beginning. Some kind of treshold should be kept, e.g. counter starts when there are already 3 pipsqueaks on the scoreboard. Akoss Poo's idea with rolling LT is still a great idea, I'll use it in USC.

EB: missing a single race (e.g. personal troubles) makes a battle between two pipsqueaks too unbalanced. It should be erased.

Cars: custom cars are organic parts of Stunts world from the beginning (crazy cheat cars from the 90s, Melange, Zapper's car pack, etc.), we should not consider them "unnatural". 5 custom car is enough, with yearly rotation. New models should have the advantage.

Number of races: as for me, 3 weeks per race is more than enough, but a season should not contain too much races. What about a special timetable with 3 weeks/race + 1 week of a special event in each month (OWOOT? USL-like tournament rounds? Anything else?). ZakStunts would still consist of 12 races/year.

Pointsystem: 12-11-10... is okay, it should not be changed. Maybe a participation dependent model would be a bit better (something like in USC, but optimized for higher number of pipsqueaks).

Public replays: absolute agreement.

Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister

If custom cars stay, I would still vote for the previously mentioned cars. Though GT3 and McLaren would need the car bonus system to be ignored. They're so special cars. On tracks designed for them, it can be really enjoyable, but if not, they can be really annoying. 2013's GT3 track was a lucky situation, that track fitted the car.

The car bonus system's other disadvantage is the car speed/track length ratio. Situations like on last year's Bridge The Gap track can occur. A long track - slow car combination can result in annoyingly long driven times. I think when more than 1:50-2:00 have to be driven, the fun factor of the track disappears. Maybe not with the LM002, because it is a really slow car combined with a good handling.

LTB: I totally agree with CTG's sentences.

Special events: I think they can take place even besides the basic race. Maybe in the middle of the month, because it was proved that the activity is the lowest then.
Chürműű! :-)

3126.69 km