Cars and rules for 2023

[Overdrijf]

Suggestion for a new whole bunch of rules that I don't want to fully derail this thread: Side competition proposal: Powergear Cup.

[Daniel3D]

How can we make it profitable and at the same time, not make it easier for PG surprises?  I ask this because I love the Indy.

The easiest way might be to include a custom car "non-PG Indy", with both its weight (determines PG) and power curve slightly lowered or raised. Or, somewhat close, we have several custom F1 cars at this point...

I was thinking the same. What about the mp4, Lola or Penske?

All other solutions are kinda useless. Knowing of is possible doesn't mean anything to me because i can't drive PG. So, surprise or not, that makes no difference.

Maybe we could exclude the indy for a year. I know that it's against tradition of including all original cars. It's just a thought... There are other PG cars,

12 days to the start of the race.
It's time we reach some kind of consensus.

Do we add a fast Indy like car to the pack so we have a fast alternative if the PG cars are out of reach? Could be fun to have.


Can we park the indy for a year and see if that has a positive impact on the competition?
We could add another PG cars like the Packard eight as competition. Less powerful but an new toy for PG enthusiasts.

Other options for car's?
Now is the time to say it 

[Overdrijf]

Can we park the indy for a year and see if that has a positive impact on the competition?
We could add another PG cars like the Packard eight as competition. Less powerful but an new toy for PG enthusiasts.

I would not replace the Indy by another PG car. The Indy is a big favorite, it's the car, taking that away while keeping the same number of potentially problematic cars would not be my preference. Just adding more PG cars also seems like maybe not the best way to prevent PG surprises.

[Duplode]

Okay, here are my car suggestions:

• Chevrolet Corvette CERV III
• Mercedes-Benz 190 E DTM
• Dodge Challenger R/T Hardtop (car attached below, ICYMI)
• De Tomaso Pantera
• McLaren Honda MP4/4

This was a hard list to make! There's at least one more full set (or two, accounting for Ryoma's cars) that I'd be happy to see on track this year.

[Daniel3D]

Okay, here are my car suggestions:

• Chevrolet Corvette CERV III
• Mercedes-Benz 190 E DTM
• Dodge Challenger R/T Hardtop (car attached below, ICYMI)
• De Tomaso Pantera
• McLaren Honda MP4/4

This was a hard list to make!

I second this list. 100%.
Thank you for reading my mind 

[Overdrijf]

I haven't tried the Challenger and the Pantero, but between those two new to Zakstunts, keeping the CERV III, the non-PG F1 car and then the Mercedes in the "other fast car" slot this feels like a good list.

EDIT: as for potential starting coëfficients:
CERV is currently on the list, so continues with +5. Which is a bit low for it, but that's the treatment all the original cars get too.
Last time the Mercedes got used it was at +7, which is also what the Jaguar was at last time it got used. The Mercedes ended at +3 at the end of 2021. So... anywhere between a nice round 0 and continuing at +4 would probably be good. +4 does feel a bit like an invitation for ealy season use though, 0 puts it above the current place of the IMSA cars but below the CERV and Corvette.
MP4/4 saw some use in races in 2014 at a whopping 13%, and won at 7% in 2013 (Although this was a season where the Jaguar got up as high as 28%). In 2018 it spent all season getting up from -47% to -14%, not seeing any real use. I should probably actually redrive this one for a bit, I always forget how fast it feels. But a guess for now... maybe -10%? That puts it 6 higher than the Indy last time it saw use, but also a bit lower than the IMSA cars, and at +1 per month it should almost guarantee use within a year.
The other two, no idea. Maybe around +5, +10 or maybe even +15%? Probably not higher than that, based on the vague image I have of these cars in my head. Were they featured in the CCC this year?

[Daniel3D]

based on the vague image I have of these cars in my head. Were they featured in the CCC this year?

The Dodge was for sure.

[alanrotoi]

Okay, here are my car suggestions:

• Chevrolet Corvette CERV III
• Mercedes-Benz 190 E DTM
• Dodge Challenger R/T Hardtop (car attached below, ICYMI)
• De Tomaso Pantera
• McLaren Honda MP4/4

Cerv iii, mclaren honda, dodge challenger and mercedes are all over 195 mph at top speed. They are different but all fast cars.

Ps: I can't remember how challenger is. What ctg did and which was the ryoma's part? For sure ryoma made the dashboard. I just hope he didn't touch the performance.

Ps 2: ok ryoma did the dashboard and maybe touched the performance a bit. Cool for me 😄

[Duplode]

Cerv iii, mclaren honda, dodge challenger and mercedes are all over 195 mph at top speed. They are different but all fast cars.

The Challenger is on the border though -- closer to Acura or Skyline than to GTO or F40.

EDIT: as for potential starting coëfficients: [...]

Given the current bonuses, something around +15 would probably work for both Challenger and Pantera (the latter perhaps a bit higher still). -10 sounds about right for the MP4/4.

[alanrotoi]

The Challenger is on the border though -- closer to Acura or Skyline than to GTO or F40.

It is like Ferrari GTO

Dodge Challenger performance:
0-60: 4.80 mph
0-100: 10.85 mph
Flat track top speed:    164 mph
Real top speed :    200 mph

I'm not against the application of this car just pointing that we won't use any slow car with this list.


This is your list then:

[Argammon]

The Challenger is on the border though -- closer to Acura or Skyline than to GTO or F40.

It is like Ferrari GTO

Dodge Challenger performance:
0-60: 4.80 mph
0-100: 10.85 mph
Flat track top speed:    164 mph
Real top speed :    200 mph

I'm not against the application of this car just pointing that we won't use any slow car with this list.


This is your list then:

I would like to have one or two slow cars included.

[Daniel3D]

The original cars are included 😁

[Argammon]

The original cars are included 😁

Oh, I was thinking about cars like Plymouth Fury or Ford Thunderbird. I love these old cars. 

[dreadnaut]

• Chevrolet Corvette CERV III
• Mercedes-Benz 190 E DTM
• Dodge Challenger R/T Hardtop (car attached below, ICYMI)
• De Tomaso Pantera
• McLaren Honda MP4/4

I like this list, but I was wondering if we want to keep the Skyline around for another season, since it didn't get much use in 2022. Possibly instead of the McLaren?

[Duplode]

I like this list, but I was wondering if we want to keep the Skyline around for another season, since it didn't get much use in 2022. Possibly instead of the McLaren?

I'm not sure if this would work well. In this list, the McLaren plays the role of an F1/Indy class car to give PG cars some extra competition, along the lines of what Daniel and Overdrijf have suggested. Replacing it with the Skyline would mean three custom cars roughly in the same class (Challenger, Pantera and Skyline). The alternative would be replacing either the Challenger or the Pantera, but that would leave us with just one new car. Furthermore, I think the Challenger and the Pantera differ more from each other than the Skyline from either of them, so swapping either for the SKyline would make the list a little less diverse.

Oh, I was thinking about cars like Plymouth Fury or Ford Thunderbird. I love these old cars. 

These are incredibly cool cars! If I were to suggest a slow car for this year, it would have been the Thunderbird. In fact, I think my list would work fine if the Pantera were replaced with the Thunderbird -- as long as we wouldn't mind introducing two new four-geared cars at once.

Edit, after thinking a little bit further about it: @dreadnaut If you think it would be preferable to have a little more stability and change only three cars from 2022 to 2023 (instead of four, as in my list), we might replace the Pantera with the Thunderbird, and either the Challenger or the Mercedes with the Skyline. Though these aren't my favourite options (I feel we have too many good options to add just one new car, and I'd like to see the Mercedes getting a second chance), they would result in a balanced enough list.