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Cars and rules for 2023

Started by dreadnaut, November 20, 2022, 10:49:42 AM

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dreadnaut

The ZakStunts of tomorrow, today!
Miss the old times? Too bad :o  But you can help us steer the ZakStunts boat towards interesting waters, maybe in the East Indys, where Melanges and Lambos swim free, and the sun never sets. Like in Stunts.

While the game stays the same, the Competition is open to rule changes. This thread is here to collect and discuss suggestions, and also to decide which custom cars will be allowed for the coming season.

See also: Cars and rules for 2022

Overdrijf

#1
I'll start with my favorite subject then: which custom cars to use.

This year we had two repeat cars that are mainstays of the community, the Skyline and the Melange (though with a new 3D model) and 3 entirely new cars. I the past I think entirely new cars often stayed for multiple years so we could get to know them. I also feel like the CERV III is one of the more interesting cars in the game. I haven't spent enough time with it yet to really put my finger on it, but it's entirely its own thing, with curious but certainly not bad handling. Very good for jumpy slidey stunts. I would also like to keep the Caterham and Stratos on general principles, but since Ryoma expressed he regretted letting us use the Stratos in Zakstunts I'm letting his wishes weigh heavier than my principles, so I would remove the Stratos and also not use any other Ryoma cars. At least for this year, and then see what the future brings.

So with the CERV III and the Caterham locked in there are 3 places left. Personally I would like at least two of those spots to go to fast or medium cars. Melange, F40, GT3, Speedgate (actually, that's kind of a powergear car, I'm not sure we need more powergear cars, same for KITT), Xylocaine, BMW(, Audi, Mercedes), kart, Lola Cosworth Indy, MP4, one of the new ones, one of the old ones I'm forgetting... I feel like that would be good for the balance of the car set. In fact, let's lock in at least one more medium speed car. F40, GT3 or similar. It makes a nice combo with the CERV and it really fills a hole in the original roster. (The Caterham is also pretty medium, so with 3 of them that's definitely enough.)

The last spot I have open should go to something new(ish). So many people have been building cars, let's use them.

So my list would be:
CERV III
Caterham
F40/GT3 (or similar)
Melange/MP4/Cosworth/Xylocaine/DTM/kart (or similar)
Something from the last 3 years

alanrotoi

Take a look to the updated custom cars list in the wiki. It has some performance info about them: https://wiki.stunts.hu/wiki/Custom_cars

alanrotoi

Melange is my beloved baby of course but if there will be 1 car per builder I would offer the De Tomaso Pantera. Here is attached for download and test. Also if we need/want a slow car I would like to offer Chevrolet Silverado Monster Truck (a little bit faster than LM002). Why I'm not voting Melange? Because there are a lot of new fast cars made by Ryoma.

Speaking about his work I would choose between Ferrari Testarossa or Lamborghini Diablo only if a couple of tiny details are corrected. At least these two car names are very tasty for a ZakStunts season, I can't deny it.

Bugatti EB110 and Jaguar XJ220 are superfast cars, about the performance of CERVIII so they are a good choice too but in a second place.

We can't miss a car by Zapper of course so I vote for Toyota Trueno (as a slow car) or Ferrari F40 (as a Super Sports car).

About Overdrijf's I would add Mercedes-Benz 190 E DTM this time because it hasn't a chance to win a race in 2021.

For the fifth car I would repeat Nissan Skyline or CERVIII. If you want to give place to another new car I would vote for one of Ryoma's listed before or Melange. So it's a kind of wildcard.

The meaning of the list is to cover most of the performance range.

So the list would be:
  • De Tomaso Pantera
  • Toyota Trueno
  • Ferrari Testarossa
  • Mercedes-Benz 190 E DTM
  • wildcard (fast car maybe, CERVIII, Melange, Bugatti EB110, Lola Cosworth)

OR
  • Chevrolet Silverado Monster Truck
  • Ferrari F40
  • Lamborghini Diablo
  • Mercedes-Benz 190 E DTM
  • wildcard

Argammon

If there is any way to prevent RH, that would be the most important change for me. Probably too much to ask as the start of next season is too close!

I don't have a strong opinion about the cars. A mix of slow and fast cars would be nice. :-)


Overdrijf

#5
Quote from: Argammon on November 20, 2022, 03:04:46 PMIf there is any way to prevent RH, that would be the most important change for me.

The return of GAR or a general NoRH side scoreboard, that's a good idea.

Context: GAR stands for Gentleman's AgReement, it means NoRH and OWOOT (top down view of car needs to touch the road in every frame). There was a separate scoreboard for it in 2017-2021. It was scrapped last year because it might be too confusing combined with the change from newbie to amateur scoreboard. But I feel like we can bring it back. We could also do a "plain" NoRH scoreboard instead, that creates less overlap with Race for Kicks, which is always OWOOT.

Since tracks are designed for freestyle sometimes they are in the strictest sense unGARable, but we've always found some rule to make the race work anyway.

(The GAR scoreboard has never come with a need to prove the run's legitimacy, like some competitions in the olden days asked for. It's too much of a hassle.)

Duplode

Here are a few quick thoughts, still to be further elaborated...

I feel it would be nice to somehow make powergear surprises a bit less likely, though it's hard to find a way to tweak that within the confines of our bonus system. One possibility that doesn't look too intrusive would be having powergear cars that reach a podium spend a few races without recovering bonus points. Still, I guess closer consideration would be needed to be confident that would actually help.

I happily endorse the return of a NoRH side scoreboard, in the spirit of Argammon's (welcome back!!) sugestion.

It's not a priority, but to keep the flame of the perennial proposal burning, we might want to think about moving away from the linear points system. I feel such a change might make the season scoreboard more dynamic.

As for cars, the only suggestion I'm fully committed to right now is keeping the CERV III. Ideally, I'd also support keeping the Stratos; however, I'm in two minds about using Ryoma's cars, for the reason explained by Overdrijf. I'll try to make a proper list of five suggestions later, once I get to test Alan's Pantera.

KyLiE

I'll keep things simple, so below are my proposed custom cars for 2023:

  • Chevrolet Corvette CERV III
  • De Tomaso Pantera GTS
  • Ferrari F40
  • Lancia LC1
  • Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R

Regarding Ryoma's cars, like Duplode, I kind of agree with Overdrijf.  So if that is the general consensus, I would substitute the Lancia LC1 with the Ford Sierra RS Cosworth.  Otherwise, I think that the current rules and structure of the competition work well, so I don't have any suggestions in that regard.

Quote from: alanrotoi on November 20, 2022, 02:04:54 PMI would choose between Ferrari Testarossa or Lamborghini Diablo only if a couple of tiny details are corrected.

Specifically, which details are you referring to?

Daniel3D

For the testarossa i believe.
Acceleration is to slow and grip is to low to feel like a Ferrari. Also the up and down shift settings for auto gear are far from optimal.

They are little tweaks to make a good car awesome
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

Argammon

I wonder if there should be an extra significant leading time bonus for whoever has the best time before the quiet days.

On the last track, the times got much better during the quiet days, perhaps indicating pipsqueaks were hiding their real times.

 :)

Daniel3D

Quote from: Argammon on November 21, 2022, 11:58:46 AMI wonder if there should be an extra significant leading time bonus for whoever has the best time before the quiet days.

On the last track, the times got much better during the quiet days, perhaps indicating pipsqueaks were hiding their real times.

 :)
You mean as incentive to fight more over LTB? And less surprises in the quiet days.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

Overdrijf

Is everyone still happy with the new LTB system itself, the amateur league and (a little older) the 1% coefficients changes by the way?

Daniel3D

Quote from: Overdrijf on November 21, 2022, 02:24:01 PMIs everyone still happy with the new LTB system itself, the amateur league and (a little older) the 1% coefficients changes by the way?
Well, I didn't start my own competition because I'm "happy" with this one. But i do think that it's well balanced and doesn't need fixing. Re-addition of GAR could be good but does require tracks to be GAR friendly.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

Argammon

Quote from: Daniel3D on November 21, 2022, 02:46:35 PM
Quote from: Overdrijf on November 21, 2022, 02:24:01 PMIs everyone still happy with the new LTB system itself, the amateur league and (a little older) the 1% coefficients changes by the way?
Well, I didn't start my own competition because I'm "happy" with this one. But i do think that it's well balanced and doesn't need fixing. Re-addition of GAR could be good but does require tracks to be GAR friendly.

It's just my opinion, but I find the GAR rules too strict. That is, if I understand it correctly that GAR also means you have to stay on the track. I would just like to drive a few no-RH laps without having to worry about rules.  :)

alanrotoi

If you want to test Ferrari Testarossa, it is one of the cars of the month in CCC. Lambo Diablo was a couple of months ago