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Future of the car collection at Southern Cross

Started by Duplode, January 31, 2023, 01:53:06 AM

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Duplode

Now that I'm finally doing the sorely needed behind-the-scenes cleanup of the Southern Cross site, it is probably a good thing to decide what should happen to the car collection there -- and your input will be very helpful for doing so.

For several years, I had tried to maintain Southern Cross as the primary place to download custom cars. However, except for adding the 19th Anniversary Melange, I haven't updated the collection there since May 2021. To make matters worse, many of the Ryoma cars there aren't in their final versions, and I'm not even 100% sure if the downloads of them are replay-compatible with the ones used at CCC.

As things stand, the best maintained car collection around is clearly @KyLiE 's (see the Stunts Custom Cars page at https://www.markceccato.com ), and in fact I have recently added a note to the Southern Cross page recommending it. That, however, probably means I have to find some other role for the Southern Cross collection, as I'm not sure if there's much point in me (re)creating a second collection of individual car downloads with basically the same scope. Some of the alternatives include:

  • Shutting down the main part of the Southern Cross collection, leaving only the old-school cheat cars and the historical curios.

  • Switching the focus of the collection to car packs. (That would be a big U-turn, as the point of the Southern Cross collection originally was to offer individual downloads, so that people could easily pick just what they needed. However, the existence of Simple Garage increases a lot the usability of car packs, making this a more attractive option than it was ten years ago.)

  • Figuring out a way to collaborate on a shared collection, set up so that it can be easily made available on different sites. (This is wild speculation, as right now I have no clue about what would be a good way to achieve that.)

  • Restoring the Southern Cross collection in something like its current format. (You'd probably have to persuade me there's a point in doing so, though.)

So, how should the Southern Cross collection evolve? Is there any other possible role for it that I have overlooked? Please let me know of your thoughts, as I don't think I'll manage to find a good solution without considering your views.




Daniel3D

I am very biased in this off course. Especially since Mark has been updating cars on minor issues. And my competition uses carpacks.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

Duplode

@Daniel3D But I would like to hear biased opinions too!  :) If there is still going to be a Southern Cross collection, I feel it should be made helpful for everyone, including competition managers, and not pointlessly duplicate work already being done by e.g. you or Mark.

KyLiE

The section of your website in question also includes mods and utilities, so perhaps it might be worthwhile focusing on those.  It depends on what you want to achieve and what the community calls for.  Honestly, I think that the custom cars available from each competition website fulfil the needs of most community members, both new and existing.

Since you mentioned my website, I thought I would let you know that I plan to continue working through Ryoma's cars, as well as any others that are released in the future.  I've been doing this since I joined the community, but it was only recently that I was asked to share my work, so naturally I thought my website was the best place to do that.

dreadnaut

Cars, so many these days! I might diverge from the initial topic here, but I see three alternatives for keeping track of all of them:

a) Individuals set up a page with a collection

pros: cheap, fast, diverse
cons: separate efforts, individual responsibility

b) We hack something into the Wiki, so cars pages include the car files

pros: easy to edit, shared responsibility
cons: "hack something", likely inflexible, might break with an upgrade

c) We build a custom system

pros: shared responsibility, customisable, over time solid
cons: doesn't exist yet, will not make everyone happy

I like (a), it's the web, but the maintenance costs are real. I expect (b) to be a pain to set up, and in the long run. And of course I'm attracted to (c), but it's something that could take time to build. Then again, it could start by hacking together something like this. Imagine Simple Garage downloading cars or pack for you...

Daniel3D

I favour the custom system as well..

Would it be possible to render a picture out of the car file? Like a view that you can see the front, side and top of the car. And then cycle through the paint jobs?

 8) #daretoask ..
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

dreadnaut

#6
Of course it would! It all depends on how much time you want to spend on it ;D

Daniel3D

It's something I want in a car manager like simple garage as well...
So..

And it's not a question about how much time I want to spend on it... If I do it, we can wait until the sun dies....
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

Duplode

Quote from: KyLiE on January 31, 2023, 03:34:28 PMHonestly, I think that the custom cars available from each competition website fulfil the needs of most community members, both new and existing.

Yeah, that's a factor too. The competitions are doing a good job of making the cars they use easily available. The main use case for a centralised collection is probably for people new to the community, who aren't necessarily racing in (our) competitions.

At the moment, I'm inclined towards removing most of the collection and focusing on the tools, as you suggest. I'd perhaps only keep a few large, thematic car packs (say, the custom cars used at UnskilledStunts competiitons, or the Ryoma cars featured on that testing thread from the 2022 pre-season). I'll wait a few more days before acting on it, to let the plans settle and keep listening to opinions.

Quote from: dreadnaut on January 31, 2023, 08:17:59 PMb) We hack something into the Wiki, so cars pages include the car files

I had a quick look at the MediaWiki docs, it seems that to get something basic working we'd only need to enable zip uploads. That would give us a page for the download in the File namespace (arbitrary example from Wikimedia Commons), a direct download link and version control. Restricted registration means we'd be in control of the uploads, and even if we open it up at some point file upload permissions can be defined separately. Still, I'm not too enthusiastic about suggesting we actually do that, at least not without a lot of thought beforehand, as once we get something like that into the Wiki, it will be tough to remove if it turns out to be a bad ides.   

dreadnaut

#9
What about an archive directory where...

  • Each car gets a directory named after the four-character identifier
  • The car directory contains:
    • an optional readme
    • one or more images of the car (e.g., side, top, front, fixed angle)
    • subdirectories for each version of the car
    • a human-editable, machine readable text file (e.g., YAML), including:
      • name, author, etc.
      • link to stunts wiki if a page exists
      • version history, pointing to the data subdirectories
  • We put the whole archive into a Git repository
  • We push the repository to GitHub or similar
  • We use the repository pipeline to upload the files to cars . stunts . hu, every time something changes
  • The website renders car lists, a page for each car, and generates NAME . zip for the latest version

One day:

  • pack information in the repository, with multi-car zip files generated by the website
  • car search

Daniel3D

Quote from: dreadnaut on February 03, 2023, 11:22:55 PMWhat about an archive directory where...

  • Each car gets a directory named after the four-character identifier
  • The car directory contains:
    • an optional readme
    • one or more images of the car (e.g., side, top, front, fixed angle)
    • subdirectories for each version of the car
    • a human-editable, machine readable text file (e.g., YAML), including:
      • name, author, etc.
      • link to stunts wiki if a page exists
      • version history, pointing to the data subdirectories
  • We put the whole archive into a Git repository
  • We push the repository to GitHub or similar
  • We use the repository pipeline to upload the files to cars . stunts . hu, every time something changes
  • The website renders car lists, a page for each car, and generates NAME . zip for the latest version

One day:

  • pack information in the repository, with multi-car zip files generated by the website
  • car search
I love it.
I've been thinking about a similar setup for a car catalogue/webshop.
With pictures that have the ID in their name and metadata
So that you can search and filter.
Maybe we can use a single source for both.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

alanrotoi

Quote from: Daniel3D on February 04, 2023, 07:26:14 AM
Quote from: dreadnaut on February 03, 2023, 11:22:55 PMWhat about an archive directory where...

  • Each car gets a directory named after the four-character identifier
  • The car directory contains:
    • an optional readme
    • one or more images of the car (e.g., side, top, front, fixed angle)
    • subdirectories for each version of the car
    • a human-editable, machine readable text file (e.g., YAML), including:
      • name, author, etc.
      • link to stunts wiki if a page exists
      • version history, pointing to the data subdirectories
  • We put the whole archive into a Git repository
  • We push the repository to GitHub or similar
  • We use the repository pipeline to upload the files to cars . stunts . hu, every time something changes
  • The website renders car lists, a page for each car, and generates NAME . zip for the latest version

One day:

  • pack information in the repository, with multi-car zip files generated by the website
  • car search
I love it.
I've been thinking about a similar setup for a car catalogue/webshop.
With pictures that have the ID in their name and metadata
So that you can search and filter.
Maybe we can use a single source for both.

Like the one in the wiki?

Daniel3D

Quote from: alanrotoi on February 04, 2023, 12:08:10 PM
Quote from: Daniel3D on February 04, 2023, 07:26:14 AM
Quote from: dreadnaut on February 03, 2023, 11:22:55 PMWhat about an archive directory where...

  • Each car gets a directory named after the four-character identifier
  • The car directory contains:
    • an optional readme
    • one or more images of the car (e.g., side, top, front, fixed angle)
    • subdirectories for each version of the car
    • a human-editable, machine readable text file (e.g., YAML), including:
      • name, author, etc.
      • link to stunts wiki if a page exists
      • version history, pointing to the data subdirectories
  • We put the whole archive into a Git repository
  • We push the repository to GitHub or similar
  • We use the repository pipeline to upload the files to cars . stunts . hu, every time something changes
  • The website renders car lists, a page for each car, and generates NAME . zip for the latest version

One day:

  • pack information in the repository, with multi-car zip files generated by the website
  • car search
I love it.
I've been thinking about a similar setup for a car catalogue/webshop.
With pictures that have the ID in their name and metadata
So that you can search and filter.
Maybe we can use a single source for both.

Like the one in the wiki?
A backend source with all metadata and images.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

alanrotoi

Why a backend source? Is it safer? (Lacking of knowledge, sorry if it's a basic question)

Daniel3D

Quote from: alanrotoi on February 04, 2023, 01:23:03 PMWhy a backend source? Is it safer? (Lacking of knowledge, sorry if it's a basic question)
A backend source that contains all files and information. The Wiki could use for instance pictures and metadata but no downloads,
A competition page could show accepted cars and downloads but limited pictures and metadata.
A car catalogue could show all information and provide filters and search options.

But all from a single source database.
Then you only have to keep the source updated for all sites.
That could be as simple as an FTP site
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)