Point system 2004

[Krys TOFF]

I voted for the 15-11-8... system because :
  1/ it was my proposal during our long discuss on the chat with Zak, Akoss and Argy.
  2/ like Argy, I want to see the winner have more points than the 2nd+2 points of LDT. That means 3 points of gap between 1st and 2nd minimum.

But, I can understand that points are important for new pipsqueaks.
I was angry to have no points 3 times in 2002 on ISA comp because I finished 7th... :?
And I remember how happy and proud I felt when I had my 1st point on the last race with my 6rh position.

So, here is a new proposal :
25, 20, 16, 13, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
Gap 1st-2nd = 5, gap 2nd-3rd = 4, gap 3rd-4th = 3, gap 4th-5th = 2, then gap = 1.
15 pipsqueaks will have points.
And gap between 5th to 15th is only 1 point between each position, that would make interesting fight for those places in the championship.
Let the top 5 do their fight, and all those "middle level" pipsqueaks (as Argy says ) like me could race with ranks like in "old" point system.
What everyone think about it ?

One last thing : 175, 170, 165, ... point system is not good : I finished 4th last year on the overall scoreboard just because I missed no race, but it was not my real performance : I was only 7th in "pro" scoreboard with classic 10, 9, 8... point system.

[satanziege]

The end of the contest is drawing near,therefore i wanted to revive this topic - has any decision been made so far if the point system will finally change?

[alanrotoi]

welly welly well, seems the most of us voted for the classic point system. In order to know what the comp admin thinks about it I ask: Zak what did you voted? what do you think? what could you do?

Votes:

Classic: Akoss, satan, jtk, me + 2 pipsqueaks more
2003 style: 1 pipsqueak
Present system: Krys, Argammon? (only a guess) + 1 pipsqueak
IRC 2003: Mingva?

[Anonymous]

If you really want the 10,9.... system ( I have yet to hear a good reason)
We have to get rid of leading time.I guess noone wants to see the month winner without leading time losing against the second placed pipsqueak with 2 bonus points.

[alanrotoi]

I agree, but it was obvious that everything about the points is changed: For example: think about a system like 2003 and where they leading point bonus is 5 points. If we change from this system to the "Classic" of course it should change the leading point too.

But you are right it is good to remember it. Leading point maybe should back to the 1 - 0.5 - 0.25  :?:

[satanziege]

I think the most important aspect is the one Magic Stunts Oracle mentioned in it's first post: that not only top pipsqueaks should get point, dual board in last season was nice for this, but as it was dropped this year i would prefer any point system that gives points down to drivers at down to tenth or even 15th postition. it was very demotivating for me last year in pro to work hard to stay in top 10 and only get amateur points... so what about simply adding 3 points to each postion in the current system, so that drivers down to 12th get points? with currently 20 drivers in first month, there would be still enough without any... and it wouldn't change the rules as much at the end of the first month as changing to a point system with totally different spacings?

[alanrotoi]

No more words then! Note that only those who are against it are top pipsqueaks seems that some of them doesn't want to win in a more fair way. As you all know I'm not a begginer and a point system like this (10-9-8-7...) would not be so good for me because I should fight every month to keep the overall position but it's better this way. A competition is enjoyable if it is fair

[Anonymous]

Stunts Oracle,what you are doing can be called to be an unfair way of arguing about matters.

It's not like you are the last court in deciding what's fair and whatsnot.
Your argument is going nowhere:

Drivers who are behind are behind.And if you can get more far behind because the point differences are bigger you can catch up more quickly again because of the same reason.

The whole issue has nothing to do with the top drivers wanting to win easily but with the slower drivers wanting to get points which seems to be the only reason they voted for 10,9,8.

But if the slow drivers want more points you can very well take satanziege's last suggestion and just take the current system and add points to it.

[zaqrack]

Hi.

Time to clear things up...
I read all your ideas and suggestions, and then I made a decision.
I hope most of you'll like it, I'll explain now why I have chosen this method.

The new, and this season's FINAL scoring system is what Mingva preferred:
20-16-14-12-10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 and then from 13th place down 0 pts.

Why?

A point system must apply to many rules and criterias:

A. it must fit fine to the number of the pipsqueaks
B. it must fit to the bonus systems
C. it should make possible to upkeep a realistic seasonal rankings for EVERY pipsqueak.
D. it shouldnt honour any pipsqueak group much more than the others
E. It must provide so called "fighting margins"

lets examine:

A:
Since I didnt expect this many pipsqueaks, the 15-11-8 system with honouting the top9 pipsqueaks was designed for maximally 18 pipsqueaks/month. We have already surpassed that limit, and I feel that'll do the same some more months again. The 10-9-8... system would be sutiable for pipsqueaks up to 20, but the best is this one honouring the top 12, which allows about 24 pipsqueaks, a limit which we are possibly not going to pass.

B:
Some might dont agree, but I think that the current +2/+1 LTB system brings fun to the pro pipsqueaks, and is well designed. I didnt really wan to change it. This is a big con for the 10-9-8 system, which is the most fair system, but fairly unsuitable for any bonus system.

C:
This means that if a lets say "talented" newbie comes, who can reach places 8-10 without team help, and then unfortunately leaves after some races - well this pipsqueak should be also awarded the correct position according to his skills. This is possibly the easiest criteria from the 5, both 10-9-8 and 20-16-14 fit it well with the current pipsqueak number we are going to possibly have.

D:
Well this is a very hard question. Clearly the 15-11-8 was simply awarding way too much for the top pipsqueaks, while they have the LTB in surplus. Yes, in my view since the real top drivers are very close in skill they must have an additional way to compete and this is the leading time. If you want to be on the real top you have to drive regularly.
Then the 10-9-8 idea came, which is clearly the most fair from this view. Why I didnt choose that system? One reason is criteria B, but more importantly crit. E. Jump and read.

E:
This is the most important. There are people born to compete, who fight for every single position. But most of the pipsqueaks need also motivation to race regularly and send time often - and so make this whole thing intresting and exciting. Points represent this motivation.
Lets name some pipsqueak groups: top-dogs, pros, amateurs, newbies.
In detail:
top dogs: this consists of maximum 3 maniacs. Really skilled pipsqueaks. On most of the tracks some pipsqueak from this group wins, but also usually the top 3 consists of these pipsqueaks. Whats their motivation then? One is LTB, but also for these pipsqueaks only winning brings satisfaction. That +4pt
compared to the seciond place gives the motivation.

pros: regular, skilled pipsqueaks. They rarely fit into the top 3 places, are usually on the places up to 6-8th, and a big time gap is after them. With this system up to the 7th place theres 2-2 pts difference between places so you could say theres no motivation for them to advance places. But then you forgot that this group is far the most motivated from all the pipsqueaks. I havent made statistics yet, but from the 70-100 replays I get a month about at least the half is made by these pipsqueaks. This year it seems to be even stronger to fight for these places, since the competition level will be very high here, so I must say the point system suits fine.

amateurs: they send times regularly, but they are still learning the tricks and the skills. The finish around the 10th place. Last year I expected many pipsqueaks from this vategory, thats why I used the dual league. I was a bit wrong, because when someone stays for a longer period, then he advances in skill very quickly, and then he is a pro not an amateur. So the dual-legue was divided too low to the second league. With this point system their motivation should be advancing fast and achieving the top6 and so earn +2 compared to the +1 gaps below. Also they are skilled anough that they dont deserve nay points if they finish below place 12.  

newbies:
they are those who just drop by o race for fun. Their times are far below the pros, but they still want to have fun! The fught with some amateurs for earning 1-2 points on the 11-12th place is their privilege.

and so you can say what I have against the 10-9-8 system: none of these motivations apply. A big amount of motivation is lost in exchange of fair rankings. But I feel you are never motivated enough for racing.

Hope it'll go fine with this system...
Zak

[alanrotoi]

I am absolutely agree it seems fair. We needed the words of a non-top dog pipsqueak to confirm I'm not Robin Hood

Great desition Zak, you think in all the pipsqueaks and not only in the "top fight".

Maybe somebody will hate me but this is a fair play.

[Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister]

Why did you choose a method which was only selected by one driver???!!! Totally can't understand you! And if somebody's opinion, why Mingva's???!!! Totally disagree. Had the poll have any meaning then???!!!

:twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

[CTG]

Akoss: Don't care about the system, the best will always win the whole competition... Only try to be that certain best...  :!:

[Argammon]

I'm satisfied with the new rules.

Rotoi is also satisfied? Fine but both of us being satisfied is a bit strange considering the discussion early on this page.

OT:No you weren't robin spood.For me it was propaganda

[zaqrack]

Why did you choose a method which was only selected by one driver???!!! Totally can't understand you! And if somebody's opinion, why Mingva's???!!! Totally disagree. Had the poll have any meaning then???!!!

this wasnt an official poll, it wasnt posted by me. Because of this topic I could see what requirements and wishes the pipsqueaks have, and then set up a decision which seems the best compromise for everyone.

[Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister]

Zak said:

this wasnt an official poll, it wasnt posted by me. Because of this topic I could see what requirements and wishes the pipsqueaks have, and then set up a decision which seems the best compromise for everyone.

Aaaaah it wasn't an official poll... then why did it influence you then???!!!