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Cars and rules for 2021

Started by dreadnaut, August 29, 2020, 12:22:25 AM

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Cas

I'm a great fan of both the DTM pack and the Melange and I also like the McLaren very much. The more of them we have in the next season, the happier I'm going to feel :)
Earth is my country. Science is my religion.

Overdrijf

#16
I haven't used the McLaren F1 car too much, but I seem to remember an acceleration profile similar to my cars: relatively low top speed but easy to get there. (Edit: Okay, the top speed is actually not too shabby, it's just really easy to get there.) So I agree that it would be a good substitute for the Superkart. I don't remember too much about the handling, which means I'll probably suck at using it.  :P But that's okay.  ;D

Daniel3D

Quote from: CTG on November 15, 2020, 07:49:19 PM
Quote from: dreadnaut on November 15, 2020, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: CTG on November 15, 2020, 03:11:33 PM
Any new car?

Knitght Industries 2000? :D

Ouch... ;D
Since KITT has arrived in the carpark outside.
I'd love to add it to the pack.
It's challenging to drive (my opinion) and on the right track could be interesting.

Quote from: Overdrijf on December 19, 2020, 08:49:03 AM
I haven't used the McLaren F1 car too much, ..... So I agree that it would be a good substitute for the Superkart.
I personally love the McLaren.

Quote from: Shoegazing Leo on September 19, 2020, 11:03:46 PM
Bring back that Melange!
Love the melange as well...
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

Daniel3D

I noticed that the original cars are always part of the contest.
To aid in diversity I wouldn't mind if they are roulated as well.
I mean, if the 911 is there the Carrera could go.
Same with the Indy vs the McLaren.

Or maybe a selection per track? 10 or 15 car's creators choice on top of the car bonus but with all contest approved car's available..
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

Cas

Beside the alternative of an original car with a similar custom-made car, sometimes, there are two cars that are similar, both custom or both originals, like the Jaguar and the P962, or the cars of the DTM pack. It makes sense to consider these things, but on the other hand, sometimes the car we'd like to use is too deep in the negatives and we have its twin rather well positioned. I don't know.
Earth is my country. Science is my religion.

Duplode

#20
I think it is important to always make the eleven original cars available, not just as a matter of tradition but also of accessibility. If ZakStunts is an all-cars competition, it should be possible for a newbie who doesn't know anything about custom cars to be able to race with any car they choose from their mod-less Stunts installation.

Daniel3D

Quote from: Duplode on January 05, 2021, 04:41:18 PM
I think it is important to always make the eleven original cars available, not just as a matter of tradition but also of accessibility.

Good point.

But with more than 15 custom cars now available it feels as a limitation that only 5 are selected.
Maybe we can expand that to 9?
That way we have a selection of 20 car's instead of 16.
Or extended to 8 with a track bonus car (selected by track creator) so total is 20 as well..
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

Cas

Uhm... what Duplode says is making me think I should always include an original alternative in R4K when the race is based on a custom-made car. I'll implement that.

About adding more custom cars to ZakStunts... it is true that there are so many to choose from now that most are left out every year, but I don't know how the car handicap system would be affected by adding more cars. I suppose it would just tend to make races even more diverse, but I'm not sure. I'm thinking I could make some form of "simulation" to test that, but how is not very clear.
Earth is my country. Science is my religion.

Daniel3D

If I'm not mistaken the car bonus started with just the original 11 cars, has been expended 3 time's.
First to 12, then to 14 and in 2011 to 16.
But I don't know in what ways the system has changed and how that is affected.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

Cas

Yes, it has seen these changes. My thinking is that, as this system counts the cars that are in the first places only, then, the more cars there are (especially, the more fast-cars there are), the more cars will be unused at any race meaning that a greater number of potentially competitive cars will raise in bonus percentage on each race. As a result, at a point, there will be more cars that could work well on a race than can fit in the podium and therefore, at least one of them will raise again in spite of its competitiveness. This means that it may happen than on all races, there are many options, that is, increased diversity.

But there are many variables and it's people who choose cars and we're human... and you know, it's like economists trying to predict what will happen with a Latin American currency! XD
Earth is my country. Science is my religion.

Duplode

Quote from: Cas on January 05, 2021, 06:27:29 PM
Uhm... what Duplode says is making me think I should always include an original alternative in R4K when the race is based on a custom-made car. I'll implement that.

Well, I'd say that would be going too far in the other directions. I think the requirements for ZakStunts are a bit different: given how it tries to cater to as broad a range of tastes as possible (for instance, through multi-car races or the GAR scoreboard), it makes sense for it to go the extra mile when it comes to the ease of getting started. Besides that, highlighting new or overlooked custom cars is becoming part of R4K's identity already, and I don't see a need for diluting that.

(By the way, I don't think custom cars are a big barrier to entry, as long as it is easy to figure out where to get and how to install them. Maybe there is some useful data to be gathered from past scoreboards on whether custom cars have had any effect over newbie activity.)

Quote from: Daniel3D on January 05, 2021, 05:58:28 PM
But with more than 15 custom cars now available it feels as a limitation that only 5 are selected.
Maybe we can expand that to 9?
That way we have a selection of 20 car's instead of 16.
Or extended to 8 with a track bonus car (selected by track creator) so total is 20 as well..

The two main concerns I'd have with making more cars available would be with the balance of the bonus system, as Cas notes (more cars means more bonus points to be redistributed every race, and therefore wilder bonus swings), and with it taking too long for some cars to resurface and have a fair shot at a podium. Regardless of that, though, the track bonus car idea is quite interesting!

Daniel3D

Quote from: Cas on January 05, 2021, 08:06:29 PM
As a result, at a point, there will be more cars that could work well on a race than can fit in the podium and therefore, at least one of them will raise again in spite of its competitiveness.
That could be solved by giving top 4 or 5 a negative mod, (15 points to divide, or more with a extra bonus for the car's that haven't seen the podium longest)
If that would work..

Quote from: Duplode on January 05, 2021, 08:26:06 PM
Regardless of that, though, the track bonus car idea is quite interesting!
The problem I see with the track bonus car is determine the car bonus modifier, since it has no history...
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

Daniel3D

Quote from: Overdrijf on November 22, 2020, 09:11:20 PM
You start with the number from last month, every car that didn't end up in the top 3 gets +1. The total amount of -'s needed to balance out those +1's (-15 if one car took all of the podium, -13 when there were three different cars) is split between the top 3 in such a way that the first place winner gets 50% of the -'s, second place gets 30% and third place gets 20%,
With 20 car's that could be;
Every car that didn't get top 5 gets +1 (total 15)
1st place -5   (1/3)
2nd place -4. (4/15)
3th place -3. (1/5)
4th place -2. (2/15)
5th place -1  (1/15)
(Total also 15)
But that may not be enough.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts
---------
Check out the STUNTS resources on my Mega (globe icon)

KyLiE

Quote from: Duplode on January 05, 2021, 08:26:06 PM
Quote from: Cas on January 05, 2021, 06:27:29 PM
Uhm... what Duplode says is making me think I should always include an original alternative in R4K when the race is based on a custom-made car. I'll implement that.

Well, I'd say that would be going too far in the other directions.

I agree and don't think that Race For Kicks needs to be changed.  The custom cars are easy to download when they are used in a race or you can download the complete package, which is also compatible with ZakStunts.

Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister

One vote for bringing back the Melange. Good car.
Chürműű! :-)

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