ZCT244 - Crazy Eight

[Duplode]

Z244 has a two-tile switching shortcut, which is illusrated by the attached diagram and Trueno lap. As per tradition (ZCT202, ZCT146, ZCT136, etc.), now it's that time in which we sit down and decide whether it should be forbidden.

My take: while this shortcut isn't as destructive as the ones seen in past cases (it affects less than half of the track, and might not even be advantageous with faster cars), I think it should be forbidden anyway (it is as ugly as any of those two-tile cuts, and ruins a perfectly good section of the track). For a more objective rationale, we might invoke the "it shouldn't be allowed to drive the same section of track in both directions" principle, originally suggested by afullo back in ZCT202.

[alanrotoi]

I agree it may generate dissapointing to who didn't find it at the end of the race (It killed me in zct23? so I know how frustrating it could be). Maybe it is not very useful this race so it makes the perfect time to talk about. I agree to forbid this, not from zakstunts forbidding rule but from not allowing it when we build the tracks.
Being the first day maybe dreadnaut could fix the track.

[dreadnaut]

Mmmh, I saw it, but assumed it would not be competitive. Hadn't considered slow cars though

With a few replays already out, I would avoid changing the track. No problem with the ad-hoc forbid rule if you see this becoming a problem.

[afullo]

As Julian Bashir said in Star Trek DS9: 3x17 Visionary, who am I to disagree with myself? 

[Ryoma]

Whaou how you can see this kind of shortcut ??

[Daniel3D]

I didn't know this was possible and in my opinion this kind of shortcut should not be allowed.

I mean, even powergear laps follow the general direction of the track. But this goes squarely against it and is in my opinion cheating.

[Daniel3D]

but from not allowing it when we build the tracks.

Ehmm. How?
I didn't know it was possible.
And I don't see how it works.
I wouldn't be able to avoid it.

[dreadnaut]

And I don't see how it works.
I wouldn't be able to avoid it.

The wiki article is brief, but to the point: after a road split, as long as you traverse one tile of one of the branches and the tile where they re-join, you will not receive penalty time. This is what let us jump from one branch to the other of a dual-way track, but it also opens the door to less fun tricks such as this one.

It is possible to prevent them when designing the track, usually by making sure they are slower then the clean route. But sometimes they just sneak in.

We usually cover these exceptions with an extra rule: you are not allowed to drive the same tiles in both directions.

[Daniel3D]

I'm still not sure if I understand.
Is this bug that what makes a 30 second time possible on default? I've been wondering about that.

[Duplode]

To be as lenient as we can, the general principle I have in mind is that it is not okay to drive on the same part of the track in the correct direction and in the wrong way while doing a dual-way switch. Dual way cuts with some wrong way driving are sometimes okay (the top Vette replays in ZCT202), and so is driving in both directions without dual-way switching (KyLiE's USL track); both things at the same time, though, tend to ruin tracks.

Whaou how you can see this kind of shortcut ??

A trained eye, mostly. It sure is befuddling the first few times you see it!

Is this bug that what makes a 30 second time possible on default? I've been wondering about that.

Yup, the thirty-and-a-bit Default lines follow pretty much the same principle: there is a split near the beginning of the track with the corresponding rejoin near the end, so you can skip most of the track by dual-way switching. The one difference is that Indy powergear means sticking to the road through wrong way driving becomes unnecessary.

On track design: through cheap dual-way cuts can sometimes be prevented, I find it hard to blame the designers for this sort of thing, specially considering how some very natural features to want on a track (such as long dual-way sectors, or dual-way sectors with intersections) make cheap switches more likely. It's not nice when designers have to cramp their style; ergo my approval of ad hoc and semi-official rulings in cases like this.

[Cas]

Maybe some kind of peer-review strategy could help prevent this kind of problem.

[Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister]

Official: I don't have access to my top replay since I'm in COVID-19 quarantine till Monday morning... I have to re-drive or I can neglect the track... I'll see it...

[dreadnaut]

While checking replays, I have noticed that Alan's two besy laps do not replay correctly, with the car crashing against the entrance of the last tunnels.

I'll have to apply the "replays are valid if the play" rule here, and drop those results. The best replay that reaches the end is 1'14"15 -> 0'58"58, so the scoreboard would not be affected.

Attached are the two problematic replays, 1'13"80 and 1'13"85.

[alanrotoi]

Oh! I was about to refuse it but I watched the replay and it happens just like you say After the crash if you rewind a few seconds and keep watching the replay it gets the correct path. I didn't noted that. Why it happens?

If the final result doesn't change I think it's ok anyway.

PS: another bug to the bug count thread, weird saved replays.

[dreadnaut]

Oh! I was about to refuse it but I watched the replay and it happens just like you say After the crash if you rewind a few seconds and keep watching the replay it gets the correct path. I didn't noted that. Why it happens?

"Advanced" powergear cornering sometimes does that. Rewinding can "fix it" sometimes, or playing with fast-forward. But it's not consistent :\