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Messages - Duplode

#31
Stunts Related Programs / Re: Pretty Garage
January 27, 2024, 04:30:26 PM
I like the design of the new interface, and in particular how it handles groups -- it's quite a bit easier now to create an ad hoc group for swapping cars around. Worth mentioning the program does the "right" thing when you add a missing car (i.e. a car not in any garage) to a group: it handles it as an unknown car with zero files that can't be moved.

Quote from: Cas on January 26, 2024, 06:04:25 PMEditing the pgarage.cfg file, you can set your [...] window size

Kinda off-topic, but it would be nice to be able to set window size in the configuration file in Bliss and the other tools as well. (I've recently went back to XMonad as my window manager, and FreeBasic windows don't play nicely with it, the most worrying symptom being that it's rather easy to get stuck in full screen. My current workaround for that is setting the window size to something that isn't a standard resolution, so that the program won't be able to go full screen.)
#32
Quote from: Cas on January 27, 2024, 02:41:58 AMMark's collection is also general, yet I don't think he'll consider his repository "superseded"... It's kind of personal, but that's another story.

Mark's collection does differ from Southern Cross in an important way: while we use it as a general collection, it is also a primary source for Mark's bug fix releases. Then, at the other end of the scale, there is Ryoma's Mega, which is pretty much strictly a primary source.

My main point here is that, looking at it from the opposite direction, I don't want for Southern Cross to create requirements for CRI/Pretty Garage. Southern Cross can be a source, but it's best not to grant it too much influence over what the format will be -- the competition sites, at least, will likely be more important sources in the long run, so their needs should have a bigger sway.

As things stand, the car collection page at Southern Cross is written entirely by hand. I could (and arguably should) have automated its generation at least in part -- say, by reading the data from a CSV file in the static site build process. Implementing that so I can have a CRI file generated automatically won't be a big deal -- my hesitation is not about writing code, but about committing to some kind of archive organisation, specially if doing so risks influencing how the broader project(s) will evolve.

As far as Southern Cross is concerned, a simple YAML format along the lines of what you posted in the other thread is good enough, and we can work out the remaining details from there. If other sites add extra requirements for the format, Southern Cross will try to follow them, but it shouldn't become a roadblock for the whole project if it somehow can't.
#33
Quote from: Cas on January 26, 2024, 11:07:03 PMI would like to know if you and Dreadnaut want to set up CRIs for Southern Cross, ZakStunts and the coming Car Archive, so that I can prepare Pretty Garage to recognise the format.

I'll be happy to set up Southern Cross so that Pretty Garage can use it as a source. There are several caveats, though:

  • The current incarnation of Southern Cross collection is not meant to be exhaustive, and most likely will remain pretty far from that, so it won't give a full picture of what is available to a Stunts pipsqueak.
  • A means of integration that makes sense for Southern Cross might not be a good fit for the future Car Archive (cf. my reply on the other thread).
  • In the long run, I expect the Southern Cross collection to be fully superseded by the Car Archive, at which point switching sources will be the sensible thing to do.
  • I'd prefer to avoid doing any major changes to how the files are offered at Southern Cross (e.g. coming up with some tidy directory layout), given how #3 means any such effort is expected to become obsolete.

That being so, if we're doing this I suggest sticking with a simple format, which allows retrieving files from Southern Cross as it currently exists while carrying as little information as you can get away with -- the expectation being that both the format and the Southern Cross collection will be superseded in the future.
#34
Car Archive project / Re: Car repository indices (CRIs)
January 27, 2024, 01:21:06 AM
Quote from: dreadnaut on January 26, 2024, 11:56:52 PMMy suggestion would be to separate the list of cars from the cars files: competitions publish a basic list (e.g., CDOR, PMIN, PCAR, ZF40), and a tool can retrieve the needed cars from its favorite archive front-end.

Delegating the retrieval of the files to an instance of the Car Archive (I'll use capitals when talking about the new project) does sound like a good design, and this kind of triangulation in which e.g. Pretty Garage grabs an ID list from CCC and then fetches the car files through the Car Archive API would be nifty.

If I'm reading it right, though, Cas' concept looks somewhat different: a list which could be made available from any site (even a static one like Southern Cross) so that a tool like Pretty Garage picks it up and figures out what it has to download. That would require knowing from the list file, or assuming (by convention?), facts about how the car files are laid out -- e.g. that in Southern Cross for the moment they are all under https://scr.stunts.hu/files/mods/ and packaged as one zip file for each car (except for the DTM cars, which currently are in a single zip) with no directory structure within.

This CRI design, with a car list file pointing directly to the files, could be a way to get integration with something like Southern Cross, which wasn't originally meant as a machine-readable archive. It feels like a less natural fit for the Car Archive. Doing as much as possible through the Car Archive API instead sounds like a good deal both for the Car Archive itself (avoiding duplicated information and abstraction breakage) and for Pretty Garage (being able to use all info the API will offer, rather than just names and file paths).
#35
Quote from: Duplode on January 10, 2024, 02:49:55 AMOver the next few days/weeks, I'll gradually re-add Ryoma cars, prioritising those that aren't available from KyLiE's site.

First step done: several of Ryoma's cars have been re-added to the car downloads with updated versions; additionally, a number of others that weren't easily available elsewhere were added. There will be at least a second batch of additions, in which I'll also bring a handful of cars from other authors into the mix.
#36
Custom Cars with Stressed / Re: Lamborghini Countach
January 26, 2024, 09:36:31 PM
Quote from: alanrotoi on January 26, 2024, 01:04:56 PMMaybe the calculus is more accurate because it takes the maximum power and not the shifting limit.

Shift points won't affect the flat track top speed except if it's reached in a gear lower than the highest one (and at high enough RPM).

(Flat track top speeds being reached at a lower gear might actually be more common than we used to think, BTW. For instance, it turns out that, on flat track, the original Ferrari GTO reaches its top speed in 4th rather than 5th. I probably should test the Countachs again on 4th...)

Edit: The original Countach hits maximum RPM on 4th at 168 mph, so I was being overzealous, and 4th versus 5th is a non-issue for these Countach tests.
#37
Custom Cars with Stressed / Re: Lamborghini Countach
January 26, 2024, 01:48:10 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on January 26, 2024, 01:27:41 AMNice! How do you test the flat track top speed? My method isn't accurated.

The first-choice method is a 30x30 banked oval driven anti-clockwise (to take advantage of left corner bias) for a few minutes. Two details are being careful to avoid any kind of bounce that could unduly raise your speed, and lifting off the accelerator before crashing on the outside of the banking to avoid gaining speed upon landing. For flexible PG and anti-PG cars, that method doesn't work well, as once you get close enough to the flat-track top speed even the slightest movement upwards on the banking will trigger PG/anti-PG. In those cases, I switch to a very large and wide "track" made of fast grass.
#38
Custom Cars with Stressed / Re: Lamborghini Countach
January 26, 2024, 01:22:34 AM
Quote from: alanrotoi on January 25, 2024, 12:56:51 PMWhat's the top flat speed and top speed of the bug-free version?

I wasn't even sure about the figures for the original Countach -- anti-PG makes for tricky top speed tests! Here goes a set of results:

Original Countach

  • 0-60 mph: 4.75 s
  • 0-100 mph: 11.20 s
  • Default hill: 12.35 s
  • Flat track top speed: 192 mph
  • Real top speed: 245 mph

NoPG Countach

  • 0-60 mph: 4.75 s
  • 0-100 mph: 11.20 s
  • Default hill: 12.40 s
  • Flat track top speed: 192 mph
  • Real top speed: 244 mph

PG Countach

  • 0-60 mph: 4.7 s
  • 0-100 mph: 10.85 s
  • Default hill: 12.30 s
  • Flat track top speed: 198 mph
  • Real top speed: 245 mph
#40
Stunts Chat / Re: Stunts pages
January 25, 2024, 10:18:56 PM
Indeed! Following those links, here's an announced competition I don't think I had seen elsewhere -- perhaps because it never actually happened. Cool logo though  :) https://web.archive.org/web/20001002040556/http://www.angelfire.com:80/on/Swirl/index.html
#41
Quote from: dreadnaut on January 24, 2024, 08:50:09 PMPrior art: ZakStunts own cars.ini, compiled over the years

This made me notice one aspect I forgot to mention: bodywork configurations :D
#42
Car Archive project / Re: Car archive
January 24, 2024, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: Cas on January 24, 2024, 07:40:51 PMNot really sure what the best solution would be for the car IDs, but both Simple Garage and Pretty Garage (the one I'm working on now) heavily rely on standard four-character car IDs to identify cars

Quote from: Daniel3D on January 24, 2024, 08:46:29 PMI think we should treat the ID as a number plate.

My two cents:

  • IDs are, and should continue to be, the primary way of identifying a car. They are what the game understands, what pipsqueaks are used to, and what most tools work with.
  • While IDs as number plates is a good mental model, and a good way to explain how they should be handled, I don't think that should go as far as we operating a registry, with applications and expiry dates -- too much red tape for dealing with too low an expected number of collisions.
  • When ID collisions do happen, we might end up having to decide what to do on a case-by-case basis, though sketching some kind of procedure in advance might help. One possibility (this is not really a proposal, just floating ideas): once we learn about a car with the same ID of an already known one, add it to the archive with a changed ID (maybe modifying it according to predefined rules), and record the ID originally chosen by the author in an optional original-id field. (The archive interface might even have an user-facing option "Use original IDs, even if clashing", which would rename the files being downloaded.)
  • Given the archive can help us with documenting versions and telling them apart, we might want it to offer complementary means of identification that go beyond IDs and consider the content of the files. Tool developers, generally speaking, wouldn't be expected to incorporate that into their programs (IDs would still be the baseline), but the information would be available if anyone wants to use it.
#43
Car Archive project / Re: Car archive
January 24, 2024, 06:02:30 AM
Quote from: dreadnaut on January 21, 2024, 08:00:42 PMI could link instead to a forum section, but also happy to continue in a thread.

After thinking a bit more about it, I feel there's room for both of them: this main thread for general discussion, and a sub-board for wilder tangents and deeper dives into one aspect or another. That being so, I have created the sub-board (and a thread to kickstart it  :)), while pinning this topic we're in to the Forum & Portal board -- let's see how well it'll work. (BTW, while the sub-board isn't that much out of the way, it might make sense to link to it from your opening post here.)
#44
Car Archive project / Paint jobs and their descriptions
January 24, 2024, 05:51:30 AM
In the parent thread, one issue that has come up is how to name and record paint jobs. Here are a few notes on the topic, which might be of some use in figuring out how much will we want to standardise the descriptions.

The original cars span eleven paint jobs, with almost all of them come in light and dark pairs. The table below shows them, along with some plausible single-word fancy names that may or may not be useful to adopt. (Suggestions of nicer or more accurate, fancy names are welcome!)

LightDark
GreySilverGraphite
BlueBlueTurquoise/Aqua
PurpleVioletIndigo
RedRed/ScarletRuby/Carmine
YellowYellowGold
GreenLime

The omission of a darker green was readily rectified by the community (see eg. the "British racing green" Lotus paint job #1), to the point it has pretty much become the 12th car colour. Other examples of custom solid colour paint jobs are:

  • Black (eg. Speedgate #1)
  • White (eg. F40 #4)
  • Pink (eg. Thunderbird #1)
  • Beige (eg. 911 Turbo #7)
  • Orange (eg. Skyline #7 -- though note the palette there can be improved a bit)
  • Brown (eg. Torino #1)

Beyond these, we have a plethora of combination paint jobs, which can be described in all sorts of ways: with slashes (eg. BMW DTM #9, Black/Pink/Red), plain descriptions (eg. Melange #3, Yellow with Black Stripes) or fantasy names (eg. Monster Truck #5, The Joker).
#45
Car Archive project / About this sub-board
January 24, 2024, 02:41:51 AM
Welcome to the Car Archive project sub-board! This space is meant for specific discussions about the project that might benefit from having their own thread. The original "Car archive" thread remains open for general discussion and free-form brainstorming.

Useful link(s):