Politics around the world

[CTG]

By the way I don't think it is possible to "fire" an EU member state but I'd have to double check the EU constitution.

Okay, there's no way to exclude a country - but they can be suspended. Or suspending only the diplomatic contacts, just like it happened to Austria (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union).

[CTG]

Latest polls in Hungary:

21% Fidesz (populist shit)
16% Jobbik ("nazis")
11% MSZP (pensioner party)
4% DK (Gyurcsány's party)
3% LMP (liberal shit)
1-1% Együtt and PM (liberal clones)
40% doesn't want to vote

[alanrotoi]

Latest polls in Hungary:

21% Fidesz (populist shit)
16% Jobbik ("nazis")
11% MSZP (pensioner party)
4% DK (Gyurcsány's party)
3% LMP (liberal shit)
1-1% Együtt and PM (liberal clones)
40% doesn't want to vote

Damn, the same situation was here in 2003. We were disappointed about the politicians then the winner had 23% and the "voto en blanco" sorry I don't know how to say it was very high.

[Akoss Poo a.k.a. Zorromeister]

"Orbán Viktor is a sperm!"

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21642647-countrys-biggest-media-mogul-turns-against-viktor-orban-no-uncertain-terms-how-cuss

[alanrotoi]

BJ could you tell something about current politics in Danmark? Elections, dominating wing, what people think about muslim before and after Charlie Hebdo, etc...

[BonzaiJoe]

Sure. The Charlie Hebdo thing only seems to have pushed a development that was already happening: racism becoming more and more mainstream. The original nationalist/racist party - Dansk Folkeparti ("Danish People's Party") - has grown ever since its inception in 1995 and has now risen to become the same size as the two traditionally biggest parties: the Social Democratic party and the Venstre ("The Liberal Party" - center-right liberal, not a party I would ever vote for). More importantly, both of the latter parties buy into Dansk Folkeparti's discourse, trying to match them in their hate for other cultures. These three parties control about 65% of the vote in opinion polls at the moment. They are all populist, but in different ways. Dansk Folkeparti is trying to sell an unrealistic dream about Denmark "like in the old days" without all the trouble caused by immigrants. They're not as extreme as Jobbìk, but they probably would be if that was politically viable in Denmark. The other two parties simple say whatever their spin doctors recommend they say, which usually means they don't have any particularly strong stances on anything.

Why people vote for any of these parties is beyond my understanding. The current government is center-left, consisting of the Social Democratic Party and Radikale Venstre ("The Social Liberal Party", which I used to vote and even campaign for but probably won't next time). They've been carrying out quite neo-liberalist economic austerity politics and only leaning left on the softer issues. As a consequence of this, the extreme left-wing party (Enhedslisten - "Red-Green Alliance") has seen a significant rise in support since 2009 but still only controls 10% of the vote (compare this to 2,1% at the 2007 election).

There is a big schism between the political climate in the city centres here, especially Copenhagen, and the countryside. Dansk Folkeparti harvests very few votes from inner Copenhagen and Radikale Venstre and Enhedslisten get very few votes from western Jutland.

Everyone agrees the current government is doomed. The right wing bloc (Venstre, Dansk Folkeparti, the Conservative Party and the USA style libertarian "Liberal Alliance") will earn a massive win at this year's election. These are sad times.

There is an interesting new center-left party starting up which acknowledges the end of growth economy. It's not very likely that it will get sufficient support to win seats in the parliament though.

Latest opinion poll:

Socialdemokraterne: 22,9%
Radikale Venstre: 7,1%
SF: 6,7%
Enhedslisten: 8,5%
------
Venstre: 23,6%
Dansk Folkeparti: 21,2%
Liberal Alliance: 5,0%
Det Konservative Folkeparti: 4,4%

(Kristendemokraterne: 0,6%)

[CTG]

Dansk Folkeparti seems to be a reasonable choice.

(However, the immigrant problem is not that serious in Hungary - yet. But who needs immigrants when we have ~10-15% gypsies? )

[BonzaiJoe]

Everyone in Denmark with a low IQ and no education agrees with you.

[BonzaiJoe]

The immigrant problem is not serious in Denmark either.

[CTG]

Everyone in Denmark with a low IQ and no education agrees with you.

Actually the low IQ masses can decide an election. Unfortunately the Hungarian sheeps are Fidesz fans.

[CTG]

Btw why does it bother you if somebody wants to have a peaceful life without poor immigrants/minorities? The gypsy problem is a damned crucial question in Hungary (as summarized by Usrin earlier). E.g. in practice, most of the crimes (especially connected with violence) can be connected to gypsies. Most people are simply afraid of them. So, is it really a problem if I don't want them to be integrated or I refuse to live in the same house/street/city/country with them? Why should I (the normal inhabitant, paying taxes, following the law, etc.) tolerate to their deviant, agressive behaviour? They are just parasitizing from the state benefits - payed from our taxes.

[zaqrack]

A good summary on the fall of the relative independency of Budapest maintained until last fall, with English susbitles and cool animations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJigdHGrTS4

[BonzaiJoe]

Btw why does it bother you if somebody wants to have a peaceful life without poor immigrants/minorities? The gypsy problem is a damned crucial question in Hungary (as summarized by Usrin earlier). E.g. in practice, most of the crimes (especially connected with violence) can be connected to gypsies. Most people are simply afraid of them. So, is it really a problem if I don't want them to be integrated or I refuse to live in the same house/street/city/country with them? Why should I (the normal inhabitant, paying taxes, following the law, etc.) tolerate to their deviant, agressive behaviour? They are just parasitizing from the state benefits - payed from our taxes.

Thank you for a stylish delivery of the classic racist juxtaposition.

In the first part of your post, you talk about "immigrants/minorities", and then in the last part, it's "deviant, agressive behaviour". It's the guilt by association I mainly have a problem with. People who share ethnic characteristics with criminals have to take on the blame for the criminals' actions. This only ever happens with minorities because they are viewed from the outside in all public discourse and the dominant group defines itself by its difference to the minorities. You could come to some other country and quickly become part of the "Magyar problem" if some of your countrymen committed crimes. You'd no longer be in a position of power. I guess the position of power can be used to absolve oneself of responsibility by making another group "dirty" and thereby allowing oneself to use one's membership of one's own group as an argument for one's own purity.

It bothers me because, in Denmark, Hungary and everywhere else, people get punished for the crimes of others. This is not fair. Even if it's just casual hate like yours, it's a problem. In order to live a proper life and to function in a society, you need other people. If everyone judges you because of your ethnicity and not your actions, you have no chance to succeed in society, so you can only turn to your own minority group, and so follows more segregation and antipathy, when everyone could just be working together instead.

Nobody should tolerate anyone's aggressive behaviour or cheating with benefits.

Everyone should tolerate deviant behaviour because you and everyone else should be free to do what you want.


In Denmark, the situation also bothers me because of its economic implications. Dansk Folkeparti wants to cut down on all international cooperations, drastically limiting our business possibilites, thereby making us poorer in the long run.

[CTG]

Let me tell you my experience from a little segment of everyday life in Hungary. We are searching for a house for ages, watching at least 30 candidates so far. But we had only one or two exceptional cases when the answer for "How is the neighbourhood? / Is it a calm place?" did not start with "There are no/only a few gypsies."

The last time we found a cute little house. Although it was a bit old builing, everything looked fine. But when we left the house to check the garden, we heard a terrible loud hardstyle music with incredible subwoofer performance. We walked around a few streets, finding the source: a huge house in terrible condition, with pulled down shutters and with two old tuned cars in the backyard. It was obvious that gypsies are living there, but to ensure about that, we asked one of their neighbours (a ~75-80 years old lady) whether this terrible noise is a usual thing or just a rare occasion. She told us (with some fear in her voice) that a huge gypsy family lives in that house, they are always that loud (no matter which day or which part of the day), and since they moved there, the number of burglaries and street robberies in the evenings increased a lot in the neighbouring streets. No wonder, since they are there, the neighbourhood is trying to escape - we have seen several houses for sale within 200 meters.

Unfortunately this is not a unique case...

[CTG]

As for me, deviants should not be tolerated. Normal people have the right to leave a normal life.

(And yes, I would not spill a teardrop if one day they disappear in a mass grave. Fúckin' racist, yes. But if the price of peace is the extinction of your enemies... well... let it be...)