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Sound Files Editing (VCE)

Started by Zapper, July 27, 2010, 06:18:39 PM

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Daniel3D

Quote from: llm on July 12, 2022, 10:49:49 AM
added export/import feature to my vce_dump tool
O wow.
I was messing with music files from other sources (4D boxing mostly) but they didn't seem to work back then.
Now I wonder if they just missed the right instruments.

Now I can make the right collection of instruments in the vce. Then I will try again.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

llm

Quote from: Daniel3D on July 12, 2022, 05:18:39 PM
Now I wonder if they just missed the right instruments.

or contained gaps, dirt or a different ordering, now its easier to check
you can even compare two vce-export folder if the titles with same name are equal etc.

Daniel3D

When I just renamed the adboxms.vce of 4D boxing stunts played the music, but is sounded different.
So I expect that some chunks with the same name contain different instrument data.
So there is room to play.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

llm

just ask if you need a special feature in vce_dump - the dirty cpp code is ease extendible to even dirtier style :)

Daniel3D

Well Mario Andretti's Racing Challenge has the exact same instrument data as STUNTS and a few instruments more.
I can easily make a duplicate adskidms.vce by just renaming the one from Mario Andretti's Racing Challenge.
The order of the instruments does not make a difference, nor does the fact that there are 10 more.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

Daniel3D

4D boxing has many of the same instruments as stunts, but different coding.
So I made a test file with all instruments (77) to see if stunts can handle them and choose different ones than stunts to hear the sound.
Secondary objective is replacing music files for the Ferrari edition, to test the possibility it is convenient to have all instruments.

Attached is a cleaned up version with only the ones stunts uses.
Alternative sound..
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

llm

Quote from: Daniel3D on July 12, 2022, 11:30:20 PM
4D boxing has many of the same instruments as stunts, but different coding.
So I made a test file with all instruments (77) to see if stunts can handle them and choose different ones than stunts to hear the sound.
Secondary objective is replacing music files for the Ferrari edition, to test the possibility it is convenient to have all instruments.

how do you know that there are 77 instruments available?
and how are these mappend in the instrument bytes?
zapper knows some of the bytes - do you know more?

Daniel3D

#97
I extracted them all from Mario's, boxing and stunts. Then dropped them in one folder. But some of the instruments from boxing have the same name but sound different.
I still have to look at other games, 4D tennis is first.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

llm

Quote from: Daniel3D on July 13, 2022, 09:15:43 AM
I extracted them all from Mario's, boxing and stunts.

you talking about instruments like its is totally clear how the instrument-data is structured - i thought that isn't clear?

zapper wrote he knows that from the instrument-data block

QuoteColumns (decimal offset)
      300..339: not tested
      343: change pattern (decimal values: 15-31-47)
      344: change pattern (decimal values: 15-22-28-82)
      346: change pitch (decimal values: 3-5-7)
      352:   fadein
      356: fadeout
      358: change pattern (decimal values: 0-6)

how do you see 77 unique instruments in these bytes? i just don't understand were a instrument begins or ends, what is the byte-size of one instrument in the VCE files?

Daniel3D

#99
Quote from: llm on July 13, 2022, 10:50:55 AM
Quote from: Daniel3D on July 13, 2022, 09:15:43 AM
I extracted them all from Mario's, boxing and stunts.

you talking about instruments like its is totally clear how the instrument-data is structured - i thought that isn't clear?
I know that the structure is the same for these 3 games. So I look at the chunk as a whole and identify them by chunk name (not by structure).
Also keeping in mind that the are "midi" based and points to the opl2 chip or equivalent.
Quote
how do you see 77 unique instruments in these bytes? i just don't understand were a instrument begins or ends, what is the byte-size of one instrument in the VCE files?
The instruments are identified by chunk name only. There are differences between games, but researching that would mean a deep understanding of how the FM Synthesys is interpreted and routed to the OPL2.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

llm

so you got 77 different titles (with instrument data)
i thought each title contains multiple instruments - not a single instrument (as you stated)

Daniel3D

The Kms/vce combination is built like MIDI and the chunk names match synthesized instruments.
There are also hints in the Kms files.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

Daniel3D

#102
Quote from: llm on July 13, 2022, 12:19:57 PM
so you got 77 different titles (with instrument data)
i thought each title contains multiple instruments - not a single instrument (as you stated)
I found a bit of light reading for you
Programmer's Guide to Yamaha YMF 262/OPL3 FM Music Synthesizer

OPL3 is a direct descendant of OPL2 (what a surprise), so most features of OPL2 are also present on OPL3.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

llm

Quote from: Daniel3D on July 13, 2022, 06:23:10 PM
Quote from: llm on July 13, 2022, 12:19:57 PM
so you got 77 different titles (with instrument data)
i thought each title contains multiple instruments - not a single instrument (as you stated)
I found a bit of light reading for you
Programmer's Guide to Yamaha YMF 262/OPL3 FM Music Synthesizer

OPL3 is a direct descendant of OPL2 (what a surprise), so most features of OPL2 are also present on OPL3.

thanks, i've got plenty of hardware programming documentation about the sound blaster - but this one is nice and small :)

another idea to easy the analyse of the VCE stuff would be logging the data that gets tunnelt from stunts to the loaded DRV-plugin
(at least extending the dosbox source a little)
maybe its just more or less the content of the VCE files then we can understand how this data is used exactly in den DRV
and write a small program that uses the DRV-Plugins to play the sounds without using stunts
i can do it, but my limited time makes every fun project a problem :)


Daniel3D

I know what you mean by limited time. Most of the time is spent on it this last few weeks were at the expense of sleep. Which is not advisable, but excitement got the better of me..

Being able to play sounds would be very helpful, but also limited in long term use. I can do a lot without.

I have discovered that a vce file with every available instrument chunk works fine in stunts. When loading a Kms music file the code only loads the instrument chunks it needs.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.