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Cars and rules for 2022

Started by dreadnaut, October 16, 2021, 12:27:53 AM

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Ryoma

@afullo my definition of an amateur : someone who never made a podium.

For the car, I am sorry, I can not choose. All my cars respect the accélération of the real one (0-60mph and 1000m standing start) and, when known, brake distance from 60 mph. Torque curve are respected except for some récent  racing car.

For the grip, I used the same values as default car (211 for normal car, 226 for supercars, more for racing)

Maybe, we can organise a pool to choose one of my car. But I can not choose one of my babies.

For information, I made a dashboard for the Lancia default car with the same gearbox (only the color has changed). The shape was changed by using a reduced shape of car0 for car1 and car2 only.

I'm agree to change gar by owoot with rh but what about raceforkicks ?

Duplode

Quote from: dreadnaut on October 19, 2021, 12:48:59 AM
- no shortcuts: it might happen for all four wheels to leave the road (e.g., understeering) but it must not save you time compared to the on-the-asphalt line

With RH, I think this makes sense. Focusing on typical close OWOOT calls, this means not cutting small corners through the inside, not flying over grass, and not driving fully on fast grass (this one might be a bit painful, but it's RH so in principle it can be fixed).

Quote from: alanrotoi on October 19, 2021, 01:47:29 AM
There should be more ways and easier ways to jump from zaks to r4k and viceversa. More links, more banners or buttons, and/or specialy more combined news and periodic commentaries. Both competitions are too separated and we need more community cohesion. R4k is a great site and has the potential to be greater but only few people joined. We need an easier and more fluent access between the competitions.

Indeed. It's a bit tangential, perhaps, but one low-hanging fruit to begin with would be directing folks to R4K's permanent competition, now that the original one has been archived  ;)

Quote from: Ryoma on October 19, 2021, 01:52:38 AM
I'm agree to change gar by owoot with rh but what about raceforkicks ?

It's up to Cas and KyLiE, but I suppose it will stay as it is. R4K is a proper OWOOT competition, with OWOOT-only main scoreboards and OWOOT-first track design; ZakStunts won't be competing on those grounds. (Besides that, with the proposed change R4K will be the one place to go for racing under NoRH + OWOOT.)

Cas

You guys are making very good points. I really don't know what impact it would have on R4K if GAR is replaced with a lighter OWOOT in ZakStunts. First thought is that it could be detrimental because it would be getting closer to the rules on R4K, but on the other hand, there's what Duplode says, that NoRH would be better represented. I, personally, feel better representing the RH side of the spectrum. I have never felt very comfortable with NoRH because it's based on sheer trust. Yet, if some pipsqueaks join R4K for NoRH, that is a good thing too.

There's also the fact that also Duplode mentioned, that our tracks at R4K are thought mostly for the OWOOT rule set, whereas ZakStunts gets its tracks designed thinking of free-style and then, GAR has sometimes had problems with this. In other words, this all might well have no impact, but as of now, we really don't know.

I feel very inclined towards Alan Rotoi's suggestion that ZakStunts and R4K are too separate and they should get easier to hop between. I have had this feeling before, but the pieces hadn't clicked together and Alan put it into clear words for the first time. In theory, we have Stunts.hu, the portal, but the truth is that most of us go directly to the tournament sites. At Race For Kicks, we do have a link that goes directly to ZakStunts, although it's not very visible. The Permanent Competition is also not obvious. Maybe we should place some banner or icon to take people to ZakStunts easily and ZakStunts could have something similar to get to R4K and the Permanent Competition.

Additionally, while I've been pretty busy and haven't yet added the feature so that Stunts.hu can show the current tournament status, I'm willing to do that and similarly, some integration could be added so that ZakStunts can display the results from the Permanent Competition or import them or anything like this. I'm open to suggestions there. And needless to say, we can also switch between rule sets at R4K so if one of the sets became eclipsed by another tournament at a certain point, we can just switch to focusing on another and again, suggestions are welcome.

This is all my personal insight. Of course, KyLiE, if you want to add or have a different idea on one of these points, the more ideas, the better. One way or another, we'll all have a great 2022 season for the two tournaments if we work together! :)
Earth is my country. Science is my religion.

KyLiE

Quote from: Cas on October 19, 2021, 08:21:42 PM
KyLiE, if you want to add or have a different idea on one of these points, the more ideas, the better.

Regarding replacing GAR with OWOOT, my concern is that those who have issues with the current GAR competition also don't seem to be interested in Race For Kicks, which is mainly OWOOT, so it may not be worthwhile.  I don't think that this will be detrimental to Race For Kicks though.  As it has been mentioned, the tracks are designed completely differently.  In any case, I trust that dreadnaut will make the right decision.

If Race For Kicks is the only competition with NoRH racing, then that is a good thing, however there are only a handful of people who enjoy racing this way.  I like to participate whenever possible, but it certainly isn't my priority.  That being said, if Duplode would like to engage in an unofficial NoRH battle, I'm up for it!  If it means more time playing Stunts, then I'm all for that.  I think a lot of us get so caught up talking about Stunts that we end up spending more time talking about it than we do playing it, which is unfortunate.

When I first joined Race For Kicks and ZakStunts, I accessed both websites via the Stunts Racing Portal.  These days, I simply go to the websites directly.  While it may be nice to add a link to Race For Kicks on the ZakStunts site, I don't think this will increase participation.  I think the limitation is not of the tournament websites, but the player base itself.  The people interested in Stunts these days are few and far between.  Those who are looking to play competitively, even more so.  Over the last year, I've tried to engage several YouTubers in an effort to bring more attention to the community, even offering sponsorship, but nobody seems to be interested.

I could go on about this, but since this is a topic about the cars and rules for the 2022 ZakStunts season, I'll leave it at that. :)

Ryoma

Race for kick had only one winner and don't have amateur league to help to progress.

Daniel3D

Quote from: Ryoma on October 20, 2021, 12:20:19 PM
Race for kick had only one winner and don't have amateur league to help to progress.
Two reasons. (In my opinion)
First it ain't ZakStunts.
Secondly you race for the kick not the glory.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

Ryoma

Difficult for me to translate kick ...

KyLiE


Cas

Hey, and how about the new cars and their chance of being part of season 2022?  There are so many!
Earth is my country. Science is my religion.

Daniel3D

Quote from: Cas on October 21, 2021, 07:45:45 AM
Hey, and how about the new cars and their chance of being part of season 2022?  There are so many!
I agree with Duplode on this one.
Quote from: Duplode on October 16, 2021, 11:50:13 PM
Cars: We're in for a treat this season! Here are my nominations:

  • Cerv III, which looks like a brilliant car;
  • Melange;
  • Zapper's Caterham!
  • One of Ryoma's cars, preferably a mechanically distinctive one as Overdrijf points out;
  • A wildcard slot -- almost anything could work here; I lean towards either something from the Lotus/911 Turbo/Skyline bracket or, if we end up with too many slow cars, the McLaren MP4/4.
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

afullo

Quote from: Ryoma on October 19, 2021, 01:52:38 AM
@afullo my definition of an amateur : someone who never made a podium.
That could make sense. But posting a replay as an amateur implies to make it public, which can be not convenient in light of the main competition.

alanrotoi

Quote from: afullo on October 21, 2021, 12:40:56 PM
posting a replay as an amateur implies to make it public, which can be not convenient in light of the main competition.

That isn't convenient. Maybe it is possible to fix.

Daniel3D

Quote from: alanrotoi on October 21, 2021, 01:40:25 PM
Quote from: afullo on October 21, 2021, 12:40:56 PM
posting a replay as an amateur implies to make it public, which can be not convenient in light of the main competition.
That isn't convenient. Maybe it is possible to fix.
An amateur 'flagged' replay should not contain secrets that can influence the main competition.
If it does it ain't an amateur replay,

Amateurs should be able to learn from each other.
If you don't want it public, don't post it as amateur.
(That's how I feel about it)
Edison once said,
"I have not failed 10,000 times,
I've successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."
---------
Currently running over 20 separate instances of Stunts or 4D Sports Driving.

Ryoma

I'm agree with Daniel... And I think an amateur does not have some secret tip

dreadnaut

Quote from: alanrotoi on October 21, 2021, 01:40:25 PM
Quote from: afullo on October 21, 2021, 12:40:56 PM
posting a replay as an amateur implies to make it public, which can be not convenient in light of the main competition.

That isn't convenient. Maybe it is possible to fix.

Definitely: replays being public is a side effect of the rushed job to implement it as a "replay tag", same as GAR. That's ok for these last months of 2021, but it won't be the case once the proper system is in place next year.

Amateur replays will also follow the public/hidden/quiet schedule. Amateurs should not have fewer "rights" or constraints.