Cars and rules for 2024

[dreadnaut]

I don't think there is any use to "prepare a special track to avoid PG" because PG car's are either competitive with PG or not at all. Before "a special track to avoid PG" becomes an option they have already won with PG.

Makes sense 🤔 Then all tracks need to be designed, or reviewed, to take PG into account. We'll do that then, and leave the bonus as they are 👍  As mentioned above, we can prepare guidelines to help: there are obvious PG triggers such as loops, and usable counters like water. A better editorial approach will decrease the likelyhood of PG, without artificial blocks and rules, and reopen the door to non-PG use of powergear cars.

[Daniel3D]

I don't think there is any use to "prepare a special track to avoid PG" because PG car's are either competitive with PG or not at all. Before "a special track to avoid PG" becomes an option they have already won with PG.

Makes sense 🤔 Then all tracks need to be designed, or reviewed, to take PG into account. We'll do that then, and leave the bonus as they are 👍  As mentioned above, we can prepare guidelines to help: there are obvious PG triggers such as loops, and usable counters like water. A better editorial approach will decrease the likelyhood of PG, without artificial blocks and rules, and reopen the door to non-PG use of powergear cars.

That is possible but requires a lot of compromises and places heavy restrictions on track building with little room for error. (Take crazy eight for example, the PG part was in the water section) you can't force builders to accommodate for this.

[alanrotoi]

I don't think there is any use to "prepare a special track to avoid PG" because PG car's are either competitive with PG or not at all. Before "a special track to avoid PG" becomes an option they have already won with PG.

Makes sense 🤔 Then all tracks need to be designed, or reviewed, to take PG into account. We'll do that then, and leave the bonus as they are 👍  As mentioned above, we can prepare guidelines to help: there are obvious PG triggers such as loops, and usable counters like water. A better editorial approach will decrease the likelyhood of PG, without artificial blocks and rules, and reopen the door to non-PG use of powergear cars.

This is the healthiest (?) Way but probably nobody will care or take the time.

[Cas]

Yeah, I think that'd be the best option.

What were you referring to with "that" ?

Yeah, it was not clear, sorry. I meant the "PG-cars on/PG-cars off" switch Alan proposed

[alanrotoi]

About ryoma's cars I vote for Diablo or Testarossa.

[Daniel3D]

About ryoma's cars I vote for Diablo or Testarossa.

I must admit that I am troubled by ryoma.
Firstly, I love his cars, although made with precision they do not always have the feeling that matches the image of the car. That has partly to do with game limitations and I think they would maybe feel more realistic if they technically were less 'correct'.

Secondly, I can't get a reading on ryoma. He is very skilled and quite smart considering the production of his many cars. On the other hand he acts immature and is sensitive. I understand that he cares about his work and that he wishes his cars shine in competition.

But the honour of a car being selected to be part of the season, is not enough.
That people drive and tryout his car in several races , is not enough.
That his car dominates a race and fills the scoreboard (but not 1st) I , is not enough.
No, he wants ensuring that his car wins over all others..
Like a 4 year old boy that only wants to play a game if he can win..
That's not how a fair competition works,

So on that basis I rather not use a car from ryoma in ZakStunts and save ourselves the drama.

@ryoma, I know that you can read this. And I don't mean to hurt you or be disrespectful. Even though I feel hurt and disrespected by you. I still care about you and the amazing collection of cars.. vehicles you created. I hope that one day you can let them be free so they can shine in their own way when they are ready.

[Duplode]

There are a lot of things to take into account, but right now I'd be happy with having one of Ryoma's cars on the 2024 list. My suggestion might be one among the Diablo VT (cc @alanrotoi ), the LC1, the 456 and the Stratos, mainly depending on what makes the full list more balanced.

[Spoonboy]

I would agree that PG is part of what makes Stunts the game it is. I think that in recent races PG solutions have been creative and fun to watch, something to aspire to, rather than being boring. Exploiting quirks of original game is part of what makes ZakStunts in particular so fascinating. I could see how boring solutions could happen though, but I don't see it much of a threat to the quality of races that I've seen. For instance. Duplode/Argammon's reverse corkscrew slingshot in ZCT266 was a work of genius and was a pleasure to lose to! XD

I'd be interested in any changes to amateur league rules, as I plan to be heavily involved in this area of the scoreboard next year!

My main hope is that we see a refresh in the list of cars. The current list is great, but some new wheels would be fun, and a new challenge!

Top of my wishlist would be Zapper's F40!!! I know it doesn't have many driving quirks like some other cars, but it's fast, beautiful and I love seeing it and driving it....just because
 
What was the reason for it being removed from the ZakStunts races?
Vote F40!!!

[Daniel3D]

The F40 was replaced for fresh cars.. because the original 11 are always on the list there is little room for the others. (That is why I started the CCC competition after the explosion of cars in recent years).

I do hope more people try the noPG versions. And voice their opinion. Maybe it is a flavour that we can serve more often.

[Duplode]

@Spoonboy The F40 is a very nice car indeed! At one point it was high on my wish list for 2023, but there were lots of things we wanted to try with this year's list, and so we ran out of room. In any case, I do think it's a solid candidate for 2024! 

[alanrotoi]

In order to keep the new people involved, is it possible to set up the limit of teams to 5 members?

[Daniel3D]

In order to keep the new people involved, is it possible to set up the limit of teams to 5 members?

And maybe split points. Top 2 of the race for the team like now.
The others collect for a beta listing. So that every participant in a team adds to a team score.
I think it would have been more an incentive to race in the 2022 season.

[alanrotoi]

It looks good to me.

[Duplode]

It's probably a good time to begin looking at our options and thinking about the balance of the car list. Here go a few scattered thoughts:

• Zapper's F40 is a popular car that has been away for a good while. I'd enjoy having it back, and I know I'm not the only one -- cc @Spoonboy 
  
  
• Are we going to stick with having a non-PG alternative to the Indy? If so, we might rotate the McLaren for either the Lola or the Penske (I slightly favour the Lola).


• Are we bringing one of Ryoma's cars in? Among them, the Diablo VT (cc @alanrotoi ) could easily be pick -- the only caveat is that its niche is not too far from the F40. For the sake of a more diverse list, and specially if we don't pick the Lola or the Penske, one might prefer stepping into the race car range and give the Lancia LC1 a shot.
  
  
• Going in the opposite direction, another nice idea that has been floated is having a proper slow car (cc @Argammon ). To me, the obvious candidate here is the Ford Thunderbird (the other 50's pack cars are of course also in contention; it's just I haven't played enough with them yet). There are also good alternatives by Ryoma (for instance, the Citröen XM, or, stepping into the rally car range, bringing back the Stratos).
  
  
• Will there be room to give any of the 2023 cars one further season? In particular, I'd still like to see the Mercedes find its place in the sun, and the Pantera didn't quite get a full scoreboard for itself yet.


• It doesn't end here, far from it! From giving my ZR1 GT3 a second shot ten years on, to going for something completely different with the Siluro Turbo, to any of the several new cars by Alan I haven't properly tried yet... Once more, we're spoiled for choice! 

[Cas]

There are so many custom cars and choices, it's really difficult to choose. I like the F40 idea and also, it'd be interesting to have the Lola or Penske instead of the McLaren. The McLaren is a very unique case and I wouldn't like it to be absent for more than one year in a row, though. No replacement for it.